I warned you here about these ACORN clowns two years ago:

Left-Wing Group Accused of Voter Fraud--Again!

Quote :

"'The nonprofit group defends itself from similar allegations nearly every election. This fall, thousands of registrations turned in by ACORN are coming under scrutiny in St. Louis, Denver, Philadelphia and Columbus, Ohio.' By any means necessary--including fraud. 11/3/2006 1:20:46 PM"

message_topic.aspx?topic=442553

Well, ACORN's at it again--and an Obama-financial crisis connection has surfaced:

Obama, ACORN, and the Financial Crisis

Quote :

"How did we get into this financial mess in the first place? Well, to a large degree, it's because lenders gave mortgages to borrowers who were unqualified, who shouldn't have been given loans in the first place. Why did they do that? Here's the start of an article in the 'Chicago Sun-Times' from April 1995: 'You've got only a couple thousand bucks in the bank. Your job pays you dog-food wages. Your credit history has been bent, stapled, and mutilated. You declared bankruptcy in 1989. Don't despire: You can still buy a house.' That article then suggested that people wanting to buy homes who fit this profile go see a group called ACORN. Obama at the time had his hands on the purse strings of two organizations. He was a director of the Woods Fund, and he was Chairman of the Board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC). He gave money from both organizations to ACORN, and also provided training for ACORN workers. According to Stanley Kurtz of National Review Online, 'ACORN succeeded in drawing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into the very policies that led to the current disaster.' ACORN put pressure on banks by threatening them with accusations of racism if they didn't give loans to minorities, even if they were completely unqualified. Starting in 1987, ACORN began pressuring Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to lower their standards for assuming mortage debt. And eventually they succeeded. By 1995, then President Clinton touted the fact that home-ownership in America was at an all-time high. According to Kurtz, ACORN representatives were guests of honor at this ceremony. (Note to McCain campaign: can you dig up that footage??) But as Kurtz goes on: 'At both the local and national levels, then, ACORN served as the critical catalyst, levering pressure created by the Community Reinvestment Act and pull with Democratic politicians to force Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into a pattern of high-risk loans. Up to now, conventional wisdom on the financial meltdown has relegated ACORN and the CRA to bit parts…In fact, however, ACORN is at the base of the whole mess…And Barack Obama cut his teth as an organizer and politician backing up ACORN's economic madness every step of the way.” The McCain campaign needs to go after Obama's support of ACORN and its direct role in the current financial meltdown."

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Blog/Default.aspx?id=279960

NRO:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjRjYzE0YmQxNzU4MDJjYWE5MjIzMTMxMmNhZWQ1MTA=

Voter Fraud? Officials Raise Concerns About Thousands of Suspicious Voter Registrations
Group Facing Probe in Nevada Has Had Past Problems

Quote :

"The most recent allegations emerged yesterday after Nevada authorities raided the group's Las Vegas offices. Authorities are investigating reports of fake or duplicate voter registrations submitted by ACORN, including some using the names of Dallas Cowboys football players. Investigators have alleged that ACORN hired 59 inmates on work release as canvassers. One inmate who had worked as a 'team leader' for ACORN told investigators that 'some of the canvassers hired by ACORN were 'lazy crackheads" who were not interested in working and just wanted money,' according to the search warrant affidavit. "

SOCIAL JUSTICE! NO HOUSE, NO PEACE! BE A REPEAT VOTER--OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!

10/9/2008 2:06:17 AM

You're back!

10/9/2008 2:06:32 AM

^ Only on a part-time basis--for now.

10/9/2008 2:16:22 AM

I heard McCain has big news to release in the morning and there's speculation that this is it... did he get you on the payroll?

10/9/2008 2:19:43 AM

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09292008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/os_dangerous_pals_131216.htm

Quote :

"WHAT exactly does a "community organizer" do? Barack Obama's rise has left many Americans asking themselves that question. Here's a big part of the answer: Community organizers intimidate banks into making high-risk loans to customers with poor credit. ... In other words, community organizers help to undermine the US economy by pushing the banking system into a sinkhole of bad loans. And Obama has spent years training and funding the organizers who do it. "

Quote :

"In fact, intimidation tactics, public charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansion have enabled ACORN to extract hundreds of millions of dollars in loans and contributions from America's financial institutions."

ok people, this is what you want in the white house? ... and this is only the start ... his corrupted ties run deep and for some reason the media is keeping this hush hush ... wonder why?

10/9/2008 2:34:55 AM

Inside Obama’s Acorn
By their fruits ye shall know them.

Quote :

"To understand the nature and extent of Acorn's radicalism, an excellent place to begin is Sol Stern's 2003 City Journal article, 'ACORN's Nutty Regime for Cities.' (For a shorter but helpful piece, try Steven Malanga's 'Acorn Squash.') Sol Stern explains that Acorn is the key modern successor of the radical 1960's 'New Left,' with a ;1960's-bred agenda of anti-capitalism' to match. Acorn, says Stern, grew out of 'one of the New Left's silliest and most destructive groups, the National Welfare Rights Organization.' In the 1960's, NWRO launched a campaign of sit-ins and disruptions at welfare offices. The goal was to remove eligibility restrictions, and thus effectively flood welfare rolls with so many clients that the system would burst. The theory, explains Stern, was that an impossibly overburdened welfare system would force 'a radical reconstruction of America's unjust capitalist economy.' Instead of a socialist utopia, however, we got the culture of dependency and family breakdown that ate away at America's inner cities — until welfare reform began to turn the tide."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_2_acorns_nutty_regime.html

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_wsj-acorn_squash.htm

10/9/2008 2:52:32 AM

these are the same tactics that got kennedy elected ... last minute ballot stuffing got him the 4000 votes needed to take illinois, which would have won the election for nixon

HISTORY IS REPEATING ITSELF PEOPLE

the question is, how many dead people have registered in NC now that its getting closer

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 3:23 AM. Reason : ]

10/9/2008 3:21:36 AM

^

10/9/2008 3:59:57 AM

oh my god, that is fkn classic

i guarantee you the majority of democrats wont understand what thats referring to

10/9/2008 4:03:06 AM

I wonder how the Obama supporters will try to distance him from ACORN.

10/9/2008 6:46:54 AM

theyll just let the media ignore it and underplay its significance and hope it blows over then fire back with ridiculous bush rants

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 7:58 AM. Reason : aa]

10/9/2008 7:57:48 AM

THis isnt the ACORN I knew. While I disown thier actions, I cannot disown the group... until it because politically damaging ( which wont happen as every news focus on economy), Plus it helps me cheat to get more voters. (which are probably not needed, so why cheat?)

10/9/2008 9:05:39 AM

Sigh.

Must we have another whine thread scraping conspiracy from a barrel from irritated wingnuts? I can say we've had our fill.

If your guy loses and odds are he may, he will lose fairly and not because of ACORN. This is just another "crying at your sister's soccer game" deal.

10/9/2008 9:08:57 AM

Quote :

"I wonder how the Obama supporters will try to distance him from ACORN."

They don't need to because it won't be reported on the news.

10/9/2008 9:13:11 AM

Quote :

"Sol Stern explains that Acorn is the key modern successor of the radical 1960's 'New Left,' with a ;1960's-bred agenda of anti-capitalism'"

silly Republicans. they think they can still win elections by running against the sixties

10/9/2008 9:17:30 AM

Hahahahah, and it's only October 9.

10/9/2008 9:18:26 AM

What are we gonna find out next? Obama ran for 3rd grade class President on a communist platform?

10/9/2008 9:24:14 AM

Kainen, you see nothign wrong with voter fraud? sigh... grow the fuck up.

Surely you want honest elections? Why defend this shit. I guess you support taking voting booths into jails as well. And support the dems plan to allow one to register and vote hte same day even without proper id? DO you support that shit?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10092008/news/politics/nuts__132771.htm

Barkley estimated he'd registered to vote "10 to 15" times after canvassers for ACORN, whose political wing has endorsed Barack Obama, relentlessly pursued him and others.



[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 9:29 AM. Reason : .]

10/9/2008 9:25:20 AM

If they find and validate the fraud of course I have a problem with it. who the hell are you are telling to grow up?

Oh I get it, if I disagree I'm being a child is it? While you guys bitch about ACORN and try to corner Democrats in voter fraud, you are forgetting about your own dirty ass laundry. What I have a problem with is stuff like...

The Michigan Republican Party threatening to use home foreclosure lists to prevent voters registered at those addresses from voting. In addition to anybody who's unable to prove their current address at the polls, the threat of humiliation is likely to deter many foreclosed homeowners and their families from even attempting to vote.

GOP denies plans to use foreclosure lists to challenge voters, by Matthew Miller, Lansing State Journal, September 11, 2008 http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880911004

Vote Caging in Florida From the article (link below) in St. Pete Times: "The first-class GOP mailing has a "Do not forward" instruction on the envelope, meaning they will be returned to the GOP if a recipient has had mail forwarded, perhaps to a summer address, or has moved.

"Letters returned as undeliverable can be compiled into "challenge lists" of unverifiable addresses and can be used to challenge voters' eligibility during early voting or on Election Day. The vote suppression technique is known as "vote caging." http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/state/article814237.ece

McCain Campaign sending incorrect forms to 1 million voters the form contained an extra box to check indicating you were a registered voter -- respondents who sent back the form without checking the box will not receive absentee ballots as per their request.
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080912/NEWS0106/809120342/1104/NEWS0108

10/9/2008 9:41:47 AM

so you mention republicans wanting to make sure people that vote are legal?

I see no problem with them having a list of foreclosed homes. That way 10 people dont use the address to vote from. You have a problem with that?

Oh no they sent out letters that required you check if you were a registered voter? Holly shit, the outrage. Seriously? I figured you would ONLY want registered voters to vote. Am i wrong?

Also, your thoughts on the REAL voter fraud with ACORN? ANd im curious your views on taking booths into jails.

10/9/2008 10:00:07 AM

YOU THINK THOSE INSTANCES ARE VOTER FRAUD BY REPUBLICANS???? ARE YOU RETARDED????


IF YOU DONT FUCKING KNOW HOW TO VOTE, YOU DONT DESERVE TO VOTE. IF YOU DONT FOLLOW SIMPLE DIRECTIONS, THEN ITS YOUR FAULT

IF YOU DONT CHANGE YOUR ADDRESS OR NOTIFY THEM TO THE CHANGE AND THE MAIL IS SENT TO A EMPTY HOUSE , ITS NOT THEIR FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY TO TRACK YOU DOWN . IF YOU ARE A LAZY FUCK THEN YOU ALSO DO NOT DESERVE TO VOTE


you obviously do not understand what voter fraud entails


voter fraud is when a party, or party supporters register names of the dallas cowboys, false names, and dead people as registered democratic voters. and this is what happened recently for the democrats

this is nothing new to democrats who got kennedy elected through last minute ballot stuffing in illinois under the supervision of the same political machine running obamas career.

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 10:08 AM. Reason : b]

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 10:09 AM. Reason : so scandalous ]

10/9/2008 10:03:31 AM

Quote :

"What I have a problem with is stuff like... "

haha, so he has a problem with trying to verify that a voter is registered, but not with actually voter registration fraud? LOL, so its ok to register as someone else, or register multiple times.. but you better not ask if im registered to vote.. that crosses the line.

NIce work TKE, he will go away now Im sure.

10/9/2008 10:18:14 AM

What a bunch of bullshit. First off just because ACORN is charged with voter fraud doesn't mean that they did it or it had any impact. Second off you didn't read my instances correctly dammit and you are completely reframing my argument to be a simple 'WELL IF THEY DON'T FUCKING KNOW HOW TO VOTE THEY DONT DESERVE IT' typical shit. Thanks for reducing this to the common denominator. Except it isn't common.

I know both of you aren't the most empathetic folks on the planet in any sense (lol) but in my humble opinion this shit is despicable and voters targeted by caging are often the most vulnerable: deployed soldiers that are overseas, lots of people that are not familiar with their rights under the law, and any that cannot spare the effort, time or expense of proving that their registration is valid.

If you guys would like more whine with your cheese about any given issue, why not just flood TSB with more wing nut bitch sessions ok? Every one gets my gizzard just that much more as you guys thrash and flail around

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM. Reason : -]

10/9/2008 10:33:15 AM

eyedrb, first off, we don't know that ACORN or any other organization has committed voter fraud (yet--they very well could be engaged in it right now). I mean, that guy who registered to vote 10 or 15 times is a total dipshit. The first thing these people ask you is if you're already registered to vote. Secondly, I know and you know that Obama would not be stupid enough to be involved with that kind of thing. He doesn't talk about his skin color very much, but I believe he appreciates the historical significance of this election and wouldn't want to sully it by repeatedly registering some dumbass who probably isn't going to vote anyway.

Now, while Obama wouldn't be stupid enough to involve himself in voter fraud, there are plenty of people who are stupid enough to believe that he is. I don't believe you are one of those people.

And vote caging is fucked up. I'm disappointed that you aren't honest enough to admit it.

10/9/2008 11:42:50 AM

if voter fraud wasnt a tactic used by local democratic parties, caging would not be necessary

if caging existed during the nixon/kennedy election in illinois, the election would have been different .. kennedy won illinois by 4000 votes yet won chicagos county by 450,000 votes

its also not illegal and presents no problems for 99% of people

10/9/2008 12:06:02 PM

10/9/2008 12:09:08 PM

Quote :

"Obama at the time had his hands on the purse strings of two organizations. He was a director of the Woods Fund, and he was Chairman of the Board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC). He gave money from both organizations to ACORN, and also provided training for ACORN workers. According to Stanley Kurtz of National Review Online, 'ACORN succeeded in drawing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into the very policies that led to the current disaster.'"

This is like playing 6 degrees to Kevin Bacon, the corruption version. I bet any one of us is connected by 6 degrees or less to the current financial crisis, a 60's radical, or a group engaging in voter fraud.

10/9/2008 12:18:50 PM

and liberals want to put THIS corruption into the white house?? america is truly going to h e double hockey sticks!!!

10/9/2008 12:40:01 PM

they either dont care, or choose to ignore anything that stains this pious image theyve accepted him as

10/9/2008 12:43:52 PM

I wonder how many of you actually have had interactions with ACORN and aren't just regurgitating information that you heard.

I can't speak for ACORN as a whole, but there are a lot of good people who do good work with ACORN and aren't corrupt in any manner. So y'all just need to deal with it and quit making boogiemen out of nothing.

10/9/2008 12:52:55 PM

Quote :

"So we have an organization that has been joined at the hip with Obama from the beginning of his career, whose members have been convicted in Washington state, Wisconsin and Colorado, and had various forms of reprimand, investigation, indictment, and other run-ins with the law and state election authorities in Virginia, Texas, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Ohio, New Mexico, North Carolina, Missouri, Michigan, Florida, Arkansas. Perhaps most disturbingly, the organization has repeatedly entrusted convicted felons with voters’ most sensitive personal information, sort of a small business assistance program for aspiring identity thieves."

oh yea, quality organization here

10/9/2008 1:02:15 PM

should the entire organization have to suffer for the failings of a few chapters?

oh yeah, I love the scare mongering of convicted felons. They have served their time and should be rehabilitated. If they aren't, then they shouldn't be out of prison.

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 1:19 PM. Reason : .]

10/9/2008 1:18:40 PM

Quote :

"One inmate who had worked as a 'team leader' for ACORN told investigators that 'some of the canvassers hired by ACORN were "lazy crackheads" who were not interested in working and just wanted money,' according to the search warrant affidavit."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5984327&page=1

Typical moonbat responses: "SO WHAT?" "YOU TOO!" "JUST A FEW BAD ACORNS!" "RACIST!!!1"

Quote :

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is the first national candidate ever to hire ACORN, a controversial non-profit accused of voter fraud across the country, for get out the vote activities. Obama's campaign paid $800,000 to a subsidiary of the liberally-leaning non-profit Association of Community Organizers for Reform called Citizens Services Incorporated campaign to increase voter turnout. This information, however, was not properly disclosed to the Federal Election Commission. The Obama campaign said it hired CSI to do 'polling, advance work and staging events' according to reports submitted to the FEC during the Democratic primary. The FEC said the Obama campaign needed to disclose ACORN was engaging in get out the vote activities last August. At the time the Obama campaign called the mistake a 'clerical error.' To date, ACORN has been accused of voter fraud in 15 states this election cycle."

http://townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/10/09/obama_hired_acorn_for_gotv&Comments=true

Yeah, I'm sure this ^ is all just one big happy-assed accident.

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM. Reason : PS: ]

10/9/2008 1:40:28 PM

being accused of and being guilty of are two different things.

Hooksaw has been accused by one poster of being a paedophile.

It must be true, since you've been accused.

10/9/2008 1:43:27 PM

theyre not going around selling magazines door to door ... this is voting registration and bound by law .. their actions can affect the entire election .. if fraud and illegal actions has existed in that many states nationwide , it is a direct representation of the services this organization provides .. if a republican organization was doing the same thing, id say drop their services

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 1:45 PM. Reason : ]

10/9/2008 1:44:09 PM

GUILTY NO MATTER WHAT.

10/9/2008 1:47:26 PM

Quote :

"To date, ACORN has been accused of voter fraud in 15 states this election cycle."

Quote :

"Yeah, I'm sure this ^ is all just one big happy-assed accident. "

The shoe fits ACORN perfectly after repeated "accusations" in multiple states in just about every election cycle, nutsuckr.

10/9/2008 1:51:45 PM

Quote :

"Hooksaw has been accused by one poster of being a paedophile"

10/9/2008 1:55:48 PM

10/9/2008 1:56:33 PM

^^great point, unlike your normal trolling...

all your posts in this thread scream "im a troll and i'll defend obama at all costs"

you are fucking pathetic

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

10/9/2008 1:56:52 PM

^ Yeah, I was going to let it go, but nutsuckr's comments are just too stupid for me to let slide.

Concerning this alleged "accusation" against me, do you have any evidence? If so, produce it or STFU and GTFO. In the case of ACORN, however, there is much evidence--other than mere accusations--in multiple states:

Quote :

"Earlier in the week, election officials in Lake County, IN reported that nearly half of the 2,040 registrations submitted by ACORN on county's final day of registration were deemed 'suspicious' because of missing or incorrect information or other irregularities. Sally LaSota, the director of the Lake County elections board, said information on some of the registration cards appeared to have been copied from the telephone book. LaSota says her employees have also identified more than 100 cards with forged signatures."

Quote :

"On the campus of University of New Mexico, College Democrats [GASP!] sought to have ACORN kicked off campus after receiving 'dismal' reports about the group practices according to the campus newspaper, Daily Lobo. In Bernalillo County, which encompasses Albuquerque and UNM, election officials have reported 1,400 'problem cards,' many of which were collected by ACORN, to local and federal law enforcement authorities. Maggie Toulouse Oliver, the county clerk, said that some of the irregularities included cards with addresses that did not exist and duplicate registrations for voters with inaccurate information."

Quote :

"Last year, King County prosecutors in Washington state brought felony charges against seven ACORN canvassers in what one official described as the worst case of voter registration fraud in the state's history. Some OF the workers pled guilty and went to jail, while the ACORN agreed to pay the county $25,000 and have its activities monitored by authorities as a part of a settlement."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5984327&page=1

(1) Guilty pleas and convictions are no longer mere accusations, nutsuckr. And (2) just about everyone here knows that you are an admitted liar:

Quote :

"I guess it wasn't Hooksaw I met at Players Retreat."

nutsuckr - admitted liar

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=527285&page=1

If you need me to ka-pwnt the shit out of you again--as I always do--I'll be around.

10/9/2008 2:22:29 PM

Quote :

"Hooksaw has been accused by one poster of being a paedophile"

I love how you came up with cute nicknames for me.

also, admitting one is wrong isn't a lie.

10/9/2008 2:32:20 PM

Do you guys REALLY want to play the 'guilt by association and/or financing' game with a man who's only been in government a few years versus a man who's been in government for decades? The skeletons falling out of McCain's closet started collecting dust when Obama was in Kindergarten. Don't start shit you can't finish.

Let's be fair and honest; both parties are probably committing all sorts of voter fraud and all kinds of other crimes. Who is more guilty is completely impossible to know.

Quote :

"In his early days as a freshman senator, McCain was known for accepting contributions from Charles Keating Jr., flying to the banker's home in the Bahamas on company planes and taking up Keating's cause with U.S. financial regulators as they investigated him. The Keating Five was the derisive name given McCain and four Democratic senators, including then-Sen. John Glenn of Ohio, who were defendants in a congressional ethics investigation of their connections to Keating. McCain is the only one still in the Senate. They were accused of trying to intimidate regulators on behalf of Keating, a real estate developer in Arizona and owner of Lincoln Savings and Loan based in Irvine, Calif. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/24/politics/main3964240.shtml

Quote :

"Senator John McCain was on a roll. In a room reserved for high-stakes gamblers at the Foxwoods Resort Casino in Connecticut, he tossed $100 chips around a hot craps table. When the marathon session ended around 2:30 a.m., the Arizona senator and his entourage emerged with thousands of dollars in winnings. A lifelong gambler, Mr. McCain takes risks, both on and off the craps table. He was throwing dice that night not long after his failed 2000 presidential bid, in which he was skewered by the Republican Party's evangelical base, opponents of gambling. Mr. McCain was betting at a casino he oversaw as a member of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, and he was doing so with the lobbyist who represents that casino, according to three associates of Mr. McCain. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/mccains-gambling-problem_n_129937.html

And yes, for christ's sake, those are both left-leaning news sources. You can find the same stories elsewhere, however.

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 2:57 PM. Reason : .]

10/9/2008 2:49:18 PM

obamas skeletons have moved from the closet to and is now an overflowing mass grave


scandal exists in politics, yes, but theres no way you can compare normal party politics with the machine in chicago .. this isnt a right wing idea, this is a well known fact

the only way to judge how someone will perform in the future is to see how they performed in the past ,,, we dont have to look far for information on mccain ... but only now is evidence coming out on obama that is anything but positive and outright frightening

im not condoning the keating 5 year , but i dont know of anything thats nearly controversial as the affiliations and corrupt atmosphere that obama thrived in and supported


this is not spin people, this is not biases, this is serious issues that you fail to acknowledge directly. its not a suprise that the media has turned a cold shoulder to this

10/9/2008 3:05:18 PM

watch out everyone, TKEschultz is serious.

10/9/2008 3:07:15 PM

huffingtonpost ... are you kidding

10/9/2008 3:12:23 PM

yet, you have no problem getting all excited over a townhall.com post.

10/9/2008 3:15:58 PM

i, too masturbate to my favorite partisan website

10/9/2008 3:20:44 PM

so youve showed me 2 articles thats shown him innocent in 1987 after federal investigations ,, nevertheless associated with a crook, and that is scandelous. but this is not new, this is has been reported continuously and hes had to respond to allegations for 2 decades


and wow, he played some craps with a representative from the native american casino that supported his campaign


weak


you still have yet to address the issues pertaining to obama

10/9/2008 3:32:52 PM

I work for ACORN currently. In Bernalillo County, no less. I did voter registration with them for a few weeks. Now I do a sort of door-to-door survey. For it's worth, I haven't noticed anything nefarious. Folks would register people repeatedly to meet quota, but that had nothing to do with politics. As far as I can tell, the bosses strongly oppose fraud. They regularly threaten us about it.

10/9/2008 3:45:38 PM