I was reading a soap box thread, and it reminded me of a question I have thought about a lot.

How much did/does your post high school education help you with your current job?

I will say, that I am an outlier, because I knew I was going to be a submarine officer before I even enrolled at NCSU, and there are not really too many classes out there that directly correlate to what I do on a day to day basis. Basically (and this is my personal case,) I think I could have went straight from being enlisted to being an officer without any of the "college stuff", at least from an academic standpoint. The Navy (at least the nuclear field,) has it's own way of doing just about everything, and relies very little on knowledge acquired outside of the nuclear program.

I ended up graduating with a 3.9, summa cum laude, yadda yadda yadda, but by and large, I feel like I wasted 3 years of my life. Other than the social aspect of meeting friends, playing poker and frisbee golf, and drinking a lot, I really don't feel like I gained too much. So my personal view on college, is that it is a waste of time and money. I would be interested to hear how others feel on the subject, and whether the stuff you learned in college is pertinent to what you do now, and if so, could you have learned it otherwise (in a significantly shorter time frame)?

2/23/2011 11:20:37 PM

So, are you telling me you didn't have to provide them a transcript or anything when you applied for nuke school?

I can't imagine they let people with just HS diplomas into that particular program.

2/23/2011 11:25:50 PM

I'm not sure you understand the question. I'm not asking whether or not your employer requires a college degree, I am asking if your education is pertinent to what you do now, or more to the point, could you do your current job effectively without going to college.

But to answer your question, you do not need a degree to get into the nuclear program as an enlisted sailor, but the Navy requires a degree to be an officer in the nuclear program.

2/23/2011 11:33:02 PM

Yes for 3 different scenarios:

1) I do research science in a yeast genetics lab now in a part-time role. I don't think they'd let me design experiments, do the benchwork and manage a lab without my biochemistry/microbiology background and training in the scientific method. It would be possible to learn all of the molecular genetic theory on your own, but extremely difficult to access a real lab for bench experience without going to college.

2) Nursing school- I'm in it now, no credible hospital is going to let you near patients without adequate formal teaching and training. Seems like a lawsuit in the making. A similar point to #1- you could in theory self-teach for the NCLEX-RN exam, but how are you going to get clinical experience without going through the proper channels?

3) non-profit management- All those humanities courses we science and engineering grads bitched about taking helped me out for this volunteer role of mine- improved my communication, critical thinking and writing skills. I also developed political and social justice ethics that are the basis for my organizational decisions.

2/24/2011 12:17:17 AM

My undergrad degree, other than general critical thinking skills, probably didn't help a lot with my job in any practical way (other than being a basic check mark on the resume).

My graduate degree however I expect will be immensely useful, if I can get a job in this environment. I'll graduate in May, so if this thread lives for 6 or 7 months, I can give you a better answer. But the grad school experience has included an internship, and many semester long consulting projects, budget analyses, cost-benefit analyses, and the like where real world experience is tied into the learning. And in other classes where consulting and service learning projects aren't realistic, there is a lot of role play, with people who take it seriously, and with professors who know what they are talking about. The hands on nature is a big part of why I expect it will be useful.

But overall, undergrad was necessary for getting a job, not so much for doing it, but grad school I expect to be very helpful.

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 12:56 AM. Reason : .]

2/24/2011 12:54:35 AM

I'm a forester and got my BS in forest management.
So...I guess my degree is relevant.
Did I need it to do what I do effectively? No. I learned about just as much practical info in the first 6 months working with the forest service as I did at ncsu. An associate's degree from Wayne community college is actually more valuable for real world forestry.

2/24/2011 1:02:52 AM

I'm an Electrical Engineer

I was in the Navy, regular Electronics Technician
(2) Associates degrees from Community College
I've built yachts and machines where I did engineering work but didn't get paid as an engineer

went back to school at NCSU, got my BSEE

$profit

2/24/2011 1:34:44 AM

I got my degree in exercise physiology but my career is in web development. I guess my 3 years in aerospace engineering did help me get into computers and coding and gave me analytical skills which I use on a daily basis. My degree though is pretty much useless unless I wanted to go get a job at the office gym.

2/24/2011 5:53:54 AM

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and I am an HVAC design engineer so I use my thermo/heat transfer/fluids stuff on a pretty regular basis.

2/24/2011 8:32:32 AM

I design nanotechnology from a chemical aspect for military application

I got a degree in Chemical Engineering with a concentration in nanotechnology

so yeah, a lot of my schooling/specialty classes helped. My traditional CHE stuff like thermo and transport haven't translated to jack though. What has also vastly helped is my internship and research experiences

Also,

Quote :

"I ended up graduating with a 3.9, summa cum laude, yadda yadda yadda, but by and large, I feel like I wasted 3 years of my life. "

tell that to yourself when you leave the Navy and are trying to get a job. From my experiences growing up in a military town with a dad who enlisted in the Marines at 17 and left as a Major, that degree is essential for getting a job once you get out. Else you're stuck doing non-skilled labor. My dad got a degree in something through night and weekend classes and landed a job as part of him leaving the military.

2/24/2011 8:51:11 AM

I learned how to code in college so that was beneficial, but I'd say the vast majority of my classes were a waste of time.

2/24/2011 11:54:15 AM

I use my calculus, physics, thermodynamics, and electrical classes on a daily basis. I worked for the same company while I was going to college though, so I don't know if the school helped my career or my career helped me focus on what to take in school.

2/24/2011 12:03:14 PM

I don't need my degree for my job but I probably wouldn't be as good at it.

2/24/2011 12:03:36 PM

Thanks for the responses. The reason I ask this is kind of twofold. College was, IMO, a couple decades ago, a great discriminator to find out who the best kind of person to employ was. I know it was shoved down my throat by my parents, relatives, teachers, guidance counselors, etc. I had really good grades, so even though something like a vocational school appealed to me where I could actually learn the specific skills needed for whatever job I chose, it was totally out of the question because of the negative stigma associated (at least in my circle of family/friends) with a vocational education. People looked at me like I was an idiot when I told them I had enlisted in the Navy, but at least with the Navy, I didn't have to deal with what others thought and I could go out and do something I enjoyed without racking up a bunch of college debt.

I will say, there are a LOT of things that I despise about the Navy. However, what I really do like is their initial training program. For the nuclear field, they basically say, "This is the base knowledge that we want you to have prior to becoming an operator or supervisor, so here are the schools we want you to attend." They design the curricula based on their needs, and they eliminate a bunch of the extra stuff.

I understand this approach wouldn't work for everything, but there are fields that I think it would be very suitable for. CalledToArms works with HVAC design. It seems to me that the company that he works for would be better served to train the employees themselves by offering the requisite heat transfer and fluids courses as they saw fit. But other courses, like English, most electives, and even some Mechanical Engineering classes like Statics, Solids, etc are pretty useless in that field.

My experience in the Navy has taught me one huge thing. There are a lot of really smart, hard working people out there who do not have a degree. Sometimes, it's because they are lazy, but sometimes it's because they just don't buy into the college thing, or can't afford it, or for whatever mitigating circumstance, cannot attend. Like I said, at one time college was pretty much the only discriminator when it came to hiring potential employees, but I think that system is flawed. It's like measuring physical fitness using only weight as a criterion. Sure, it's a good starting point, but much like we've all seen a 170 pound dude who can't run a mile, there are tons of people with college degrees (and good GPA's to support) that are really bad employees.

2/24/2011 12:22:59 PM

Quote :

"How much did/does your post high school education help you with your current job?"

Got a degree in Communication with a concentration in media, but working as a web developer which I had been doing since my sophomore year of high school.

So... minimally.

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 12:43 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2011 12:43:24 PM

Zero percent, Bob.

2/24/2011 1:35:10 PM

I literally wouldn't be able to do my future job without most of my classes. Although, I could have done without quite a few of the general ed requirements... So I guess maybe 1-2 semesters were a waste? Everything else helps in some way though, or I enjoyed a class enough to not consider a waste (like herpetology).

2/24/2011 4:19:24 PM

Quote :

"I understand this approach wouldn't work for everything, but there are fields that I think it would be very suitable for. CalledToArms works with HVAC design. It seems to me that the company that he works for would be better served to train the employees themselves by offering the requisite heat transfer and fluids courses as they saw fit. But other courses, like English, most electives, and even some Mechanical Engineering classes like Statics, Solids, etc are pretty useless in that field."

This already exists. There are jobs out there (for ME graduates I know for sure) where the first year or two consists of taking classes and attending seminars and whatnot (all within the company) while also being responsible for duties consistent with a newly grad (basically learning the ropes). The problem is that a company (with competitors mind you) can't afford to waste time and money on a high school kid with an unproven track record. Furthermore, how many kids that make As in high school, in all the AP and college level courses (or at least the ones an engineering recruiter is going to look for) are going to be content with chaining their future to a single company in an extremely narrow field. Sure their specific skills would help get a job at another company but what if the other similar companies don't exist in an area or just aren't hiring for that specific field at the time? The broadness of the degree is one of the advantages.

Quote :

"My experience in the Navy has taught me one huge thing. There are a lot of really smart, hard working people out there who do not have a degree. Sometimes, it's because they are lazy, but sometimes it's because they just don't buy into the college thing, or can't afford it, or for whatever mitigating circumstance, cannot attend. Like I said, at one time college was pretty much the only discriminator when it came to hiring potential employees, but I think that system is flawed.It's like measuring physical fitness using only weight as a criterion. Sure, it's a good starting point, but much like we've all seen a 170 pound dude who can't run a mile, there are tons of people with college degrees (and good GPA's to support) that are really bad employees."

You cannot help those that will not help themselves. If they do not have the drive to jump through all the hoops to get that Mech Degree, what makes you think that they would succeed as an HVAC design engineer? Similarly, if I gave you 1000 names and asked you to find me the fittest person for a job as a marathon runner (to compete against your rivals and hopefully become an all-star or to fail miserably and cost your company thousands), you are probably going to start off with some seemingly arbitrary criteria to narrow the field (eg, nonsmoker, <175#, etc). Despite the fact that there might be a few 250# people that could one day become the greatest marathon runners of all time, they get eliminated immediately and that 170# dude that can't run a mile falls through the first round of elimination.

2/24/2011 4:27:56 PM

I don't use my college education. Ever.

But this is because I partied too much, dropped out of College of Engineering and went into CHASS, and now can't find a real job. I've been working retail since 2007 (when I graduated), and it sucks. In short, my BS from CHASS is completely worthless.

2/24/2011 5:02:30 PM

You will also see a difference in people who had a goal career in mind and fit their education to it, and people who cruised through college to just get a degree.

2/24/2011 5:06:48 PM

^ You're doing it wrong

2/24/2011 5:06:52 PM

Quote :

"but the Navy requires a degree to be an officer in the nuclear program."

so it was required yet you think it was a waste?

odd.

so what are you going to do when they retire you again? that degree + experience might come in handy.

2/24/2011 6:12:43 PM

i have a bs in animal science & almost a minor in nutrition (short one freshman seminar class)...and i'm a marketing coordinator at an architectural firm. the only time my major intersects w/ my job is when my coworkers ask me why their dog chews his feet or some other pet/vet/petfood related question. i did help 2 of them choose new dog food & drastically reduced their dogs' allergy problems.

i changed my mind about majors a couple of times & definitely didn't go there intending to come home & work for my father. i wanted to be an architect up until the end of my senior year of high school, then wanted to be an FBI or SBI agent. i started as a psych major then got really interested in cognitive ergonomics & wanted to work for NASA (didn't require a change of major). i got bored again & decided if i was going to finish school i needed to switch to something i KNEW i would always be interested in. that was animals, i switched to animal science starting my junior year in college, and so for like 2 weeks i was going to be a vet. once i saw the people i was competing against to get into vet school, and how my chances were less than slim to none, i went with animal nutrition. i did very well in those classes bc i liked what i was learning, finally, and graduated after 4.5 years at ncsu. i worked for my dad starting 3 weeks after graduating bc i wasn't going to live at home for long & needed money, worked at a lab that tested petfood for 3 months until they shut down. went back to dad's & took the marketing position & we all lived somewhat happily ever after. my decision to stay close to home was due to changes in my health in college.

i did learn more about computers in general while in college, mostly bc i had access to expensive software for very cheap, not that i learned something from a class. i gained a more open, worldly perspective on things through exposure to people/situations so different than my hometown. i had no idea there were so many white people out there

i'm definitely a better, smarter person for getting a 4 year degree. after working for 5ish years now you can definitely tell the difference in the mindset/though processes of high school grads, community college grads, & university grads though.



[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM. Reason : ]

2/24/2011 6:52:51 PM

Degrees:
Economics and Management BAs from Ohio Wesleyan
Applied Econ MA from NCSU

Job (singular):
Econometric Analyst at an IT firm

Not exactly in a typical field, but the job called for a similar degree and I like the relaxed environment of an IT firm vs finance/consulting/etc. Overall, the degree was required for the job and the master's has certainly paid for itself -- I'd recommend a nice quantitative MA/MS to anyone if they can afford to take the time to complete one in the short run.

2/24/2011 7:06:39 PM

Degree:
No degree.

Job
SRO/Reactor Operator in the Navy. I make about 65k...

2/24/2011 10:05:53 PM

neither my undergrad degree nor my master's degree have anything to do with my current job

most days I feel like I'm wasting my life :/

2/24/2011 10:17:40 PM

BS - Meteorology
MS - Atmospheric Sciences

Job(s):
1 - Full-time, Sr. Environmental Analyst. Directly related to my MS studies.
2 - Part-time, consulting meteorologist. Directly related to my BS studies.

Unfortunately, Job 1 looks like it may be coming to an end soon due to budgetary issues and contract cutting. Yippee?

Anyone hiring?

2/24/2011 10:20:05 PM

You get what you want from it - a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. If you simply tell yourself that it was a waste of your time, then yes, you've wasted your time. I'm an Infantry officer, with a BSEE. Obviously, there's not exactly a plethora of electrical engineering going on on a daily basis. I'm damn glad I got that degree, though. It's helped me immensely in viewing things analytically, thinking on the fly, evaluating multiple courses of action, and the whole number-crunching thing helps, too. It may seem strange, but fast math is a big part of what I do - if you've only got 30 seconds or so to figure out how wide of an engagement area you need for a vehicle travelling 45 km/h, or coordinating indirect and air assets, you kinda want your numbers to be right.

A college degree isn't exclusively about gaining rote knowledge, either. It's provides you with a system for being a well-rounded individual, teaches you how to think critically, and prepares you for work that requires you to deal with new situations and challenges effectively. It sounds like wishy-washy bullshit, but I buy in to it. It's not so much about what you've learned, but about learning how to learn and effectively use knowledge. Part of this is why the military requires officers to have a college education. Yes, your enlisted subordinates are perfectly capable of acquiring rote knowledge, either through courses or experience. Many will be greater subject matter experts than you. But, at the end of the day, you are the one responsible for all the decisions made, not them. That requires more than just learning the material.

2/24/2011 10:51:49 PM

Quote :

"A college degree isn't exclusively about gaining rote knowledge, either. It's provides you with a system for being a well-rounded individual, teaches you how to think critically, and prepares you for work that requires you to deal with new situations and challenges effectively."

Agreed.

I have a finance degree, and am a retail manager.

Aside from having to facilitate every high-level P&L training in existence for my company in the states of North and South Carolina for roughly the last 4 years (which gets old after the second time...*facepalm*), my degree in itself doesn't serve too much of a purpose in my industry.

However, I've always been somewhat of an overachiever in every position I've held (got a job with the company part time my senior year and just kinda stuck around after graduating). College taught me how to effectively speak and present in groups of 100+ people who are all judging me, how to formally and professionally conduct myself when writing/emailing, and how to interact and quickly build rapport with pretty much every demographic known to man. It's made me pretty damn good at what I do and has progressed to one of those things that I was just kinda doing for awhile to one of those things that I now see real long-term opportunity in (without the typical corporate brainwashing...promise).

So basically, what I do currently is hardly reflective of my college career (hell...I oversee roughly 100 employees and most of them are in college). But I have way too short of an attention span to sit behind a desk or in front of a computer all day, and the skills I learned in college (both classes and general "college" college stuff) has made it easy for me to find my job really easy. And it surprisingly enough pays *pretty* damn well. December just really sucks for me...



[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 11:19 PM. Reason : herpes]

2/24/2011 11:17:08 PM

Quote :

"It's provides you with a system for being a well-rounded individual, teaches you how to think critically, and prepares you for work that requires you to deal with new situations and challenges effectively."

I dunno, I'd wager at this point in time, more than half of college grads aren't any more well rounded, critical thinking, agile people than they were before they went to college, beyond what mere age / experience brings. When job postings for secretaries want college degrees, it means that college has simply become the new high school.

2/24/2011 11:52:11 PM

Communication degrees are about as worthless as a high school diploma, but a math/science/engineering/architectural degree is going to go a long ways towards future employment.

2/25/2011 12:07:33 AM

^^ Maybe he should have said technical college degrees.

It's a lot harder to cruise through technical programs. You can way more easily bullshit your way through humanities degrees without having a deep understanding of anything.

(The humanities degree is so meaningless in terms of talent that you have to go to other factors to determine whether the person is good or not. For example, you judge a humanities degree by the quality of the school.)

Anyways, I don't think that the degree causes you to have those traits mentioned above^^, but I think it shows that you have those traits. It also provides a foundation of knowledge that let's you break down a problem quickly.

If you aren't using your education in your job, you probably aren't doing anything cutting edge. There is a lot of innovation that happens by applying the latest academic research to products.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 5:49 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 5:46:11 AM

^^^ I would agree with you, as far as the quality of college grads, but you can only do so much - the onus is ultimately on the student. Garbage in, garbage out. If the student is only interested in having fun and checking the block, or even if they just simply don't have the mental capacity to move beyond checking the block, well...es ist nun mal so, nicht wahr?

I would argue that a technical degree is not key to success. I dislike the attitude that liberal arts degrees are worthless, even if the stereotype seems to be perpetuated. To paraphrase an old general, one should not judge everyone by their qualities as an engineer, else we should have no culture.

2/25/2011 9:40:02 AM

What does a liberal arts degree have to do with producing culture? That's a stereotype. Secretaries and HR people aren't doing fuck all for culture.

And what about being an engineer is incompatible with producing culture?

I don't believe there is any relationship between degree and culture. You are presenting a false dichotomy.
ree is.

2/25/2011 9:52:26 AM

Business Degree with Marketing Concentration at State
Law Degree from Charleston

Slowly building my own law firm...so definitely using the law degree, and to a certain extent the Business degree. Could still probably do all the "business running" aspect of the law firm without the business degree...but it hasn't hurt. Chose to go into the Business program because I had no idea what else I wanted to do other than go to law school and figured it was a decent "general" degree to have in case I never made it to law school. I did have a couple higher level classes that were pretty amazing in regards to business practice that I've used in several "projects" since graduating. In the past two years I've been a bar/restaurant consultant that I credit towards my abilities as a good bartender but also because I've managed several successful bars at a very young age (23-25). I feel like that ability came directly from Gary Palin's classes (entrepreneur professor in the College of Management). That guy was amazing (and his classes extremely difficult).

So I feel pretty good about both of my degrees. Don't know how long I'll do the attorney thing, so it's possible that I regret that degree most down the road because of it's cost. But as of right now, both degrees are getting used.

2/25/2011 10:07:57 AM

my dgree directly affects my current career path and my every day job duties. I got my BS in Mechanical Engineering, work as a Mechanical Engineer on a Hardware Design team. I'm ME Level III right now. I design stuff every day. I'm thinking about going back to school for my MBA though.

2/25/2011 10:08:49 AM

Not much at all. Degree in English list, but I'm a program director/coordinator for Duke Med

2/25/2011 10:15:27 AM

zero point zero

Degree: Microbiology
Job: Regional Sales Manager for an internet provider

No complaints though, because I am easily making quadruple what I would make using my degree. Plus I have a ton more flexibility.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:21 AM. Reason : a]

2/25/2011 10:20:55 AM

Culture - An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for symbolic thought and social learning. Since liberal arts encompasses areas such as the written word and languages, history, mathematics and logic, social sciences, and philosophy, I'd say they're pretty important.

But hey, I can commit a hasty induction, as well! Hmm, what lowest common denominator examples can I generalize technical degrees with...IT workers seems like a good place to start. I'm sure they're contributing directly to the corpus of human knowledge.

Typical 'hard science' type.

2/25/2011 10:26:42 AM

zero point zero

Degree: CHASS
Job: Manage asset allocation for a hedge fund

No complaints though, because I am easily making quadruple what I would make using my degree. Plus I have a ton more flexibility.

2/25/2011 10:34:09 AM