Quote :

" they genuinely believe that because they took some class and maybe go to shoot every now and then"

actually my trigger finger is accurate as Sgt Reznov

but probably not as accurate your russian fingering is to your asshole

3/29/2012 9:00:51 PM

Who came first?

3/29/2012 9:18:31 PM

Lol, I see the topic has shifted from "We're not paranoid and delusional!" to "Let me describe my dream Doomsday Bunker."

3/30/2012 12:29:05 AM

My asshole finger is strong and dexterous, thank you much.

[Edited on March 30, 2012 at 1:02 AM. Reason : like, literally - my asshole has a finger.]

3/30/2012 12:56:55 AM

3/30/2012 1:45:11 AM

3/30/2012 8:00:58 AM

3/30/2012 8:21:13 AM

str8foolish must be sitting at home right now contemplating:

"now we all know the world has gone through revolution after revolution warring with itself countless times for hundreds and hundreds of years in recorded history and these guys are talking about the arts of learning self defense and self preservation...

their CRAZY!!! this just... it can't.. it CANT happen in my lifetime!! there's no way i'd ever have to be prepared for this nonsense!!! THIS IS AMERICA! and OBAMA will protect me through everything!!! come war or crime!"

3/30/2012 9:32:14 AM

The past occurrence of an event is not in itself sufficient to justify belief that its repeating is imminent.

3/30/2012 9:37:42 AM

^and this ladies and gentlemen is why so many ppl in the united states NEED a babysitting government to rape our wallets and support them.

3/30/2012 9:47:00 AM

Zimmerman's friend claims he wasn't saying "fucking coons" but instead was saying "it's fucking cold." It was 62°F at the time. And when told that, the fucker says it's still cold for Orlando. LOL.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_mid#/video/crime/2012/03/28/exp-ng-zimmerman-taaffe-friend.hln

3/30/2012 7:02:56 PM

I never really thought the guy was saying "fucking coons" though...

It still sounds like "fucking punks" to me.

3/30/2012 9:41:43 PM

that's what I thought at first....

Watch this video and tell me what you think:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/03/did-george-zimmerman-use-a-racial-slur/254925/

Either way, he's not saying "it's fucking cold." That's just plain stupid.

3/30/2012 10:01:44 PM

^ i downloaded the original wave file and listed to it after some adjustments (using Amadeus Pro), and i don't hear coons.

It's one of those things though, like that dancing shadow optical illusion where the direction of spin is ambiguous, where I can trick my brain into hearing it either way.

But the "u" sound in "pUnks" is what makes me think it's not "coons," it sounds like the same "u" in "fUcking."

It's definitely not "cold" though.

3/30/2012 10:20:49 PM

I dunno at least from the CNN edits (btw that video is hilarious) it sounds like fucking coons to me but who the hell knows. The race part of it is really muddying up the information that makes it look like the police simply didn't do their fucking job. Zimmerman's story doesn't check out on multiple levels.

3/31/2012 9:14:23 AM

What do you guys think about that new blurry security camera video of the police bringing Zimmerman into the precinct on the night of the shooting. It is hard to tell much given the graininess but proponents for Martin claim it shows no damage to Zimmerman's face, nose or head contradictory to claims.

Personally I am shocked that our professional protective services are still using shitty grainy-ass CCTV. This is 2012. Get a Microsoft Lifecam for 60 bucks and be done with it. I know broke college students with better video equipment than this.

3/31/2012 12:12:14 PM

Zimmerman was not arrested not because he was a "white" latino, but because he has relatives deep in the local justice system, who pulled some strings. If you want to bring race into it, then look at it from the perspective of a single individual, don't hold the entire nation to this one man's actions.

He was released because daddy told them to. >.<

3/31/2012 10:21:10 PM

Reports out from some audio experts claiming it WAS martins screams on the 911 call.

4/1/2012 2:13:19 AM

Of course there are. And you have just as many audio experts claiming it was Zimmerman.

What is your point?

4/1/2012 8:32:10 AM

Quote :

"What do you guys think about that new blurry security camera video of the police bringing Zimmerman into the precinct on the night of the shooting. "

Haven't seen it, but 2 things spring to mind based on its existence.

1) That would mean the entire narrative about how he was never even brought in for questioning is false.

2) Why the hell didn't anyone confirm that he was indeed brought in for questioning before now? You would think with all the allegations of police impropriety that they might have at least mentioned he was brought in for questioning before now.

4/1/2012 8:41:49 AM

I don't understand why the injuries sustained on the day of the incident were not photographed and documented thoroughly immediately.

4/1/2012 10:35:46 AM

^^^
None that I've seen reported on.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

^^the original police report seems to imply he was released on the scene, it is strange this was clarified. That's what made me question if the video was legit at first.

There was a headline I saw that pointed out all the press this story was getting but how little clarity they provide. It seems that the only newspaper doing any investigating is the Orlando sentinel and everyone just rereports their findings.

[Edited on April 1, 2012 at 12:09 PM. Reason : ]

4/1/2012 12:06:14 PM

i think there are things that aren't public.

4/1/2012 12:55:44 PM

4/1/2012 2:12:19 PM

Are we 100% sure that that video is actually of Zimmerman being led into the police station?

I wasn't under the impression that when you were only going in for questioning, they handcuffed you and led you in like you had been arrested for a crime.

I could be wrong, but that's not how I usually thought it went down.

Also, that doesn't look much like Zimmerman, however, I guess he could have changed a lot since that mug shot was taken years ago.

4/1/2012 11:30:55 PM

I attended a candlelight vigil at the Capitol Grounds for Trayvon tonight. May justice come soon.

4/2/2012 12:12:46 AM

I love how people are calling for justice without even knowing all the evidence.

4/2/2012 12:34:42 AM

Going back to the CC thing: let me make a couple of points here:

Many people who CC carry more or less everywhere that they're legally allowed. It isn't that they expect a gunfight while working in the yard on a Sunday afternoon, or at a 1st grade birthday party. There isn't even exactly a paranoid mindset where they feel they "need" to be constantly armed. it's more of a case of "I have a CCP, a firearm appropriate for routine, discrete carry, and I'm going to carry sometimes. With that in mind, there is no way to predict when and where I might need it. Sure, some places and times have worse odds, but crazy shit happens in places and times you wouldn't expect it. If I'm going to carry fairly routinely, why not just carry pretty much all the time?"


As far as accusing them of paranoia, let's accept that CCP holders have extraordinarily low crime rates. They are safer and more law abiding than are police officers. Yet, a few of you view them as unhinged and dangerous. I submit that the CCP holders are not the ones who are paranoid or detached from reality.

[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 12:39 AM. Reason : and all of you are around people CC-ing all the time. you might just not realize it.]

4/2/2012 12:38:49 AM

^^^^ people are often detained that way.

^^ this is an obvious case of injustice at this point.

Not that the ball isn't rolling towards justice.

[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 12:43 AM. Reason : ]

4/2/2012 12:40:03 AM

Quote :

"Going back to the CC thing: let me make a couple of points here: Many people who CC carry more or less everywhere that they're legally allowed. It isn't that they expect a gunfight while working in the yard on a Sunday afternoon, or at a 1st grade birthday party. There isn't even exactly a paranoid mindset where they feel they "need" to be constantly armed. it's more of a case of "I have a CCP, a firearm appropriate for routine, discrete carry, and I'm going to carry sometimes. With that in mind, there is no way to predict when and where I might need it. Sure, some places and times have worse odds, but crazy shit happens in places and times you wouldn't expect it. If I'm going to carry fairly routinely, why not just carry pretty much all the time?""

Quote :

"According to state crime stats, Florida averaged 12 “justifiable homicide” deaths a year from 2000-2004. After “Stand your Ground” was passed in 2005, the number of “justifiable” deaths has almost tripled to an average of 35 a year, an increase of 283% from 2005-2010."

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/deaths-nearly-triple-since-stand-your-ground-enacted/

4/2/2012 1:09:47 AM

The ball is rolling towards justice for sure. Few who own or carry firearms are prone to hunting humans the way Zimmerman did. Stalking Trayvon against the advice of emergency responders was vicious. I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents.

4/2/2012 1:15:01 AM

If Zimmerman isn't arrested, the entire Sanford police dept. should be fired.

4/2/2012 1:45:51 AM

Quote :

"I attended a candlelight vigil at the Capitol Grounds for Trayvon tonight"

I heard there were protests in Wilmington to with kids wearing hoodies. Even if hypothetically the Sanford situation was an issue of bad policing, what fucking good is protesting in NC going to do to absolve an issue in FL. Why the hell would our politicians give a fuck. I think some people just want something to bitch about. Perhaps soon the "wronged" people most upset in this case will resort to burning their own community and rioting just like during the Rodney King days.

Quote :

"Stalking Trayvon against the advice of emergency responders was vicious"

One is not legally bound to listen to the 911 dispatchers. Just ask the Texas old guy who against the advice of responders approached two hispanic males robbing the neighbor's house. One of the fools tried to bum rush the old guy, who happened to be holding a shotgun. Needless to say the crook got the justice he deserved and the elderly TX man was absolved of any wrong doing.

[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 10:33 AM. Reason : a]

4/2/2012 10:31:26 AM

Not anything earth shattering but a second ambulance that was dispatched for Zimmerman was cancelled before arriving at the site.

^ what's the point of the Texas story? Actual crime being comitted =\ kid walking home from quicki mart.

[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 11:22 AM. Reason : X]

4/2/2012 11:20:55 AM

Quote :

"http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/deaths-nearly-triple-since-stand-your-ground-enacted/"

This is silly. Of course the number of "justifiable deaths" increases after you change the goal post for what constitutes a "justifiable death." It doesn't say anything about a change in crime, actual homicide, or anything else.

4/2/2012 11:21:21 AM

^If they were a bunch of crooks that got shot trying to rob someone, I have 0 problems with that.

4/2/2012 11:27:55 AM

Instead it was a thug who attacked the wrong guy holding a gun. I fail to believe that Zimmerman decided to simply shoot the kid for simply walking through the neighborhood.

4/2/2012 11:46:00 AM

What are you talking about? No one anywhere is claiming he just mowed down a black guy for sport. Did you just imply that Trayvon is some thug who willy nilly attacked Zimmerman without provocation? Hell, even Zimmerman isn't even claiming that.

4/2/2012 12:19:06 PM

Quote :

"WILLY NILLY"

4/2/2012 1:13:04 PM

Quote :

"Just ask the Texas old guy who against the advice of responders approached two hispanic males robbing the neighbor's house. One of the fools tried to bum rush the old guy, who happened to be holding a shotgun. Needless to say the crook got the justice he deserved and the elderly TX man was absolved of any wrong doing. "

Joe Horn.

4/2/2012 4:19:02 PM

decides to murder innocent teen

calls 911 right before he does it, just to let 'em know what's going on

4/2/2012 4:49:14 PM

Ah yes, that explains why they were shot in the back.

Rob someone? That's a death sentence.

I didn't realize you were all Charles fucking Bronson.

4/2/2012 4:50:03 PM

^hugs, not slugs?

4/2/2012 4:51:04 PM

Quote :

"According to state crime stats, Florida averaged 12 “justifiable homicide” deaths a year from 2000-2004. After “Stand your Ground” was passed in 2005, the number of “justifiable” deaths has almost tripled to an average of 35 a year, an increase of 283% from 2005-2010"

1. What does that have to do with what I posted?

2. That statistic, by itself, is meaningless.

4/2/2012 6:17:23 PM

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/

4/3/2012 1:23:25 AM

This sums up everything I wanted to say on this:

Quote :

"The killing of Trayvon Martin is a Rorschach test for American society. This tragedy reveals a deep divide in our political imaginations and communities. It also is a mirror for the fissures of race, ideology, and party that still vex and befuddle us to the present. Some folks imagine themselves, their children, and members of their communities as Trayvon Martin. To their eyes, Trayvon is a symbol of how American society all too often devalues the lives of people of color. Other people imagine themselves as George Zimmerman. To them, he is a "victim," a "good" man who only wanted to protect his neighborhood from crime and "suspicious" people. Moreover, the assertion that George Zimmerman acted out of racial bias in his hunting and killing of Trayvon Martin is personally offensive to them. Because Zimmerman is “them,” and “they” are Zimmerman, he is quite simply a "law abiding" citizen who is being made a victim of "reverse racism," "race hustlers," and "the liberal media." Black men are scary, frightening, and suspicious to George Zimmerman and those people who think like him. These beliefs are part of a matrix of racism, prejudice, and stereotypes which are reproduced and disseminated throughout American culture. Ultimately, many on the Right see George Zimmerman as a hero figure; for voters primed on a toxic mix of conservative rhetoric that bundles together such issues as race, guns, and crime, George Zimmerman is a fetish and totem for their wish fulfillment. In the post civil rights era, old fashioned racism is out of style. Consequently, supporting George Zimmerman necessarily requires the shaming and smearing of Trayvon Martin. Perhaps I am too generous, but I would like to believe that even for the most strident conservative authoritarians and colorblind racists there would be some level of cognitive dissonance to be overcome in order to justify the killing of an unarmed black teenager who was guilty of no more than holding a bag of Skittles, and walking home wearing a hooded sweatshirt in the rain. The solution to this puzzle comes in a common sense appeal to black thuggery, hooliganism, and a logic which suggests that people like Trayvon Martin are existential threats to civil order and society: to that end, Zimmerman's defenders marshal "data" and "statistics" which "prove" that black men commit a "disproportionate" amount of crime in American society. This "fact" becomes a casus belli for shooting down innocent black and brown people in the streets either at the hands of police, or corrupt vigilantes such as George Zimmerman. This logic hangs in the ether, hiding in plain sight, and has gone little discussed in the public conversation about the Trayvon Martin shooting. The claim that black people commit more crime, and thus black men in particular should always be treated as uniquely and singularly capable of violence, is accepted and legitimized even by some liberals and progressives. When conservatives bring up this point, many defenders of Trayvon Martin stutter, hew, and stammer through the inevitable, "that may be true, but..." moment. Rarely do they attack the premise of what is a centuries-old "true lie" that black people, and black men in particular, are criminal bogeyman and hoodlums--civilized and under control until they decide to lash out and show their true selves like metaphorical savage beasts, a dagger, or a bomb waiting to go off at any moment in the heart of “normal” society. Instead, many accept the terms of this true lie, and give it credence by accepting the premise of the argument. In reality, matters are much more complicated. A surrender to a basic and fallacy laden argument that black people, and black young people in particular are uniquely and especially prone to violence, oversimplifies the nature of crime in America. As the old saying goes, "numbers lie and liars figure." Or alternatively, the lazy recitation of statistics is a dumb person's idea of how a smart person sounds. The black people commit more crime canard is a fallacy of both process and outcomes. African Americans are subject to discrimination in the legal system at every level. As documented by The Sentencing Project, and detailed in such works as Race, Crime and the Law, and The New Jim Crow, African Americans are more likely to be stopped by police without cause, to be more aggressively questioned, receive longer and more severe charges for the same crimes as white defendants, and to have fewer resources to defend themselves in court. "

4/3/2012 4:34:35 PM

Part 2:

Quote :

" As compared to white neighborhoods, black and brown communities are also subject to more severe surveillance and aggressive police tactics. Moreover, the disproportionate number of minorities in the criminal justice system can be largely explained by the War on Drugs. In total, if white communities were subject to the same type of aggressive police tactics as black and brown communities, the number of white people in prison would skyrocket. The data is very telling here. While people of color are the prime targets of such policies as “stop and frisk” and racial profiling, it is in fact white people who are far more likely to be both drug users and to be in possession of narcotics at a given moment. This reality signals to a larger social phenomenon: black individuals who commit crimes are representative of their whole communities, crime is racialized, and there is no qualifier of individual intent. All black people are deemed suspicious and guilty because of the deeds of the very few. In contrast, white people who commit crimes are unique individuals: the criminals who destroyed the global economy, a group of white men, were not taken as representative of the entire white community. There is a long list of crimes such as domestic terrorism, serial murder, child rape, sedition, treason, and financial fraud that are almost exclusively the province of white people. But again, whites as a group are excluded from suspicion or indictment as a “criminal class.” The supposition that black men (and black folks more generally) are by definition “suspicious” is a channeling of the once in vogue concept known as “rational” or “reasonable” racism. Applying this logic, George Zimmerman is justified in shooting first, profiling, or harassing black people because “statistically” the latter are more likely to commit crime. Again, this is a chain of reasoning that is rife with problems. Generalized statistics about crime tell you very little about a given person’s likelihood of committing a criminal act. This is especially true in a society where race and class are variables which over-determine how the courts treat suspects and who the police choose to single out for surveillance, harassment, and arrest. Broad statistics also tell us little about a given population’s capacity or propensity to commit crime. For example, while black men are disproportionately incarcerated, the majority are in jail for drug offenses. African Americans are also more likely to be poor than whites. When a researcher accounts for these variables, the story becomes one of class and not race. [/b]Further problematizing the true lie that “black equals criminal,” is that disparities in crime largely disappear when you consider the black middle and upper classes in comparison to their white peers. As demonstrated by Jody Armour in her book Negrophobia, less than 2 percent of black men are incarcerated for violent crimes. By implication, to generalize from the demographics of a given prison population to a specific person’s likelihood of committing a violent crime is a fool’s errand of the first order. This is a counter-intuitive dynamic: just because a given group may constitute a higher percentage of those in jail, it does not in fact mean that a given individual is more likely to commit said type of crime. A person is more likely to suffer a violent crime at the hands of a family member, friend, or acquaintance than a stranger; and most crime is intraracial. Ultimately, incarceration is a function of many structural factors in relation to the criminal justice system. Anecdotes matter. Police often give a pass to those who they know or trust. The white kid with weed just made a mistake; the black or Latino is a hardcore thug to be jailed. The judge may give parole or a lenient sentence to a white defendant in order to “teach them a lesson” about bad behavior. By comparison, a person of color before the same judge is already a “lost cause,” someone to have the book thrown at. We see this same dynamic even in schools: researchers have determined that white and black youth who are accused of the same offenses see wildly different outcomes in terms of punishment. The latter are suspended or expelled, while the former are given warnings or other remediation. Two points are readily apparent. The demographics of those in jails, prisons, and hospitals are a means of judging a society, as well as determining which groups of people are valued (and those who are not). By that calculus, the poor, working classes, and people of color are second class citizens in the United States. If American history's circumstances were reversed along the axis of the color line, then our country's jails and prisons would be filled with millions of white people. In the sum total of this alternate America's history there would likely have been many thousands of white people killed at the hands of black mobs and blood thirsty vigilantes obsessed with maintaining the racial order, and protecting themselves from white “criminals” and “thugs.” In this world, there would likely have been many "Black" George Zimmermans and "white" Trayvon Martins. Here is the true failure of political imagination and empathy in the present: many white conservatives instinctively defend George Zimmerman because they cannot imagine themselves, their kin, or their children, as victims of unjust violence at the hands of the police. Sadly, the consequence is an inability to find a sense of shared humanity with Trayvon Martin, because to do so would require a leap of faith in the pursuit of shared humanity and the common good across lines of race and class--a journey that many white conservatives and others are unwilling to entertain even in the twenty-first century. Once more, our politics are sick."

http://open.salon.com/blog/chauncey_devega/2012/03/29/smearing_trayvon_martin_blacks_commit_more_crime_and

Before you tl;dr, it's a good read.

4/3/2012 4:34:57 PM

Quote :

"When a researcher accounts for these variables, the story becomes one of class and not race."

EXACTLY!! I was trying to make this point earlier.

4/3/2012 4:51:54 PM

^ that's actually the exact opposite of what you were saying earlier.

4/3/2012 6:21:45 PM

Quote :

"Before you tl;dr, it's a good read."

Eh, the author makes a couple of good points, but it's mostly a screed against his own personal strawmen as early as the third paragraph, starting with the scare quotes, and really getting a running leap with this gem:

Quote :

"Black men are scary, frightening, and suspicious to George Zimmerman and those people who think like him."

[citation needed]

4/3/2012 6:44:35 PM