this whole discussion is moot. as in pointless.

observe: in 2006, the Indiana Senate race was between Lugar (R) and Osborne (L). There was no Democrat.

The Libertarian lost, 87% to 13%. simultaneously the most lopsided victory, and the best showing for a Libertarian.

the fact is, Libertarians will never, ever, win a national office. They can't even muster 15% of the vote in a two-way race. Apparently they couldn't even win a seat if they were unopposed.

so you big-L libertarians please to go back to your comic book stores or your parents' basements and continue holding your little intellectual Ayn Rand discussion groups.

smoke your pot, and shoot your guns, and continue debating on whether or not child pornography is a constitutional right, because you will always be on the fringes of internet message boards, and never making any meaningful headway into american politics.

2/11/2007 1:44:36 PM

Odd argument. I'm a libertarian and vote Republican. Did it not occur to you that we have a two party system and that had something to do with a 3rd party never winning an election?

Quote :

"I think we should revert back to the laws of nature and live naked in the woods."

Na, I'd rather get a job and buy a house. Last I heard it was anti-commerce types that hugged trees and hated mankind's profit.

2/11/2007 1:50:05 PM

well im going to burn your house down with my posse of genetically engineered toxic sludge mutants.

[Edited on February 11, 2007 at 1:52 PM. Reason : !!!!]

2/11/2007 1:50:45 PM

And me and my neighborhood watch will gun down every last one of them with our fully automatic weapons.

2/11/2007 2:43:36 PM

how are you planning on getting to that job?

2/11/2007 3:18:55 PM

^^ so your ideal living situation would be similar to the one portrayed in "Escape from New York".

you wonder why no one votes for libertarians.

2/11/2007 3:47:48 PM

Quote :

"or when Enron powers down California."

No one ever stops to think about who powered it up.

2/11/2007 3:54:06 PM

^^What makes you think my ideal world has a despotic Government walling up its citizens, stealing property, gunning down innocent people, and wiring bridges with explosives?

If you want to know why people do not vote Libertarian you could just ask me, I vote Republican.

Quote :

"how are you planning on getting to that job?"

Thanks to the Hillsboro Trolley Company, getting to work is easy; all it takes is a nickle.

[Edited on February 11, 2007 at 3:58 PM. Reason : ^]

2/11/2007 3:58:01 PM

welcome to candyland

[Edited on February 11, 2007 at 6:14 PM. Reason : candy]

2/11/2007 6:14:22 PM

"revert back"

2/11/2007 6:23:01 PM

Quote :

"go back to your comic book stores or your parents' basements "

..or you could start juggling

Quote :

"Campaign Finance's Funny Loophole By Penn Jillette Want to speak your mind after McCain-Feingold? Learn to juggle. Then get a business partner and start a magic show that's funny. That's all it took to get me on Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher. They book me whenever they need a libertarian/ atheist/free speech wackjob (or when Charo cancels at the last minute and they need someone with big hair). And I agree to go on so I can pimp my little Penn & Teller show. That goal is accomplished when Bill says, "Welcome Penn Jillette of Penn & Teller. Penn & Teller are playing next week in Wherever-the-hell-we-are-next-week." Then I speak my mind. TV likes a nut. If I just speak my mind honestly, I fulfill all my nut obligations."

2/11/2007 11:48:01 PM

mythical trolley companies? this fantasy world is pretty sweet

2/12/2007 11:22:25 AM

too bad abunch of neo-nazis blew the trolley up.

2/12/2007 11:34:33 AM

but lonesark's neighborhood will kill the neonazis so its ok.

2/12/2007 12:25:21 PM

^^ Yea, it was a sad day. But the Trolley Company organized a possy and we chased down and siezed the neonazis. They are currently working off their debt punching cards and tearing tickets.

2/12/2007 12:55:20 PM

My problem with Libertarians is the lack of pragmatism in the party. It's based on fanatiscism hidden behind the bill of rights and the constitution. Voting down child porn laws? Come on now. The line has to be drawn somewhere for the sake of level-headed Americans everywhere.

2/12/2007 2:18:23 PM

I don't think any Libertarian political candidate would ever vote against laws criminalizing child abuse. What you are probably thinking of are laws that make it a felony to possess photographs of child porn. While I'm sure child pornography should be illegal, people should not get put in jail for 90 years for simple possession. It's akin to putting people in jail for possessing photos of people being murdered; the people in question did not murder anyone and did not encourage anyone else to do so; all they bought were photographs. Confiscate the photos, interrogate them to find out where they got the photos, and then let them go. Go arrest the murderer/child abuser.

2/12/2007 2:27:32 PM

Vaunted libertarian congressman Ron Paul voted down legislation designed to help catch child predators online, holding that it was no place for the gov. to get invovled. I believe that in a case like this, where sick individuals can easily take advantage of children without the parent knowing, should be regarded as an offense, as the child often has no idea what they are getting into and thus doesn't clue in the oblivious parent (admit it, lots of parents have no clue what's going on with their children, they could care less). Stopping predators before they attack prevents actual abuse and later.

Is it the state's job to raise your kids? No, but it is their job to stop crime.

[Edited on February 12, 2007 at 2:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2007 2:38:35 PM

Quote :

"I don't think any Libertarian political candidate would ever vote against laws criminalizing child abuse"

SEE? This is what im sayin

talk about child porn, and the libertarian subtly shifts the debate to "child abuse". oh, yes, of course everyone is against child abuse.

but the libertarian wants to make a distinction between "harmless pictures" and "child abuse/rape/murder"

oh, you see, having a picture in your possession never hurt anyone. First Amendment. Fourth Amendment. Tenth Amendment. woo hoo. poor, misunderstood NAMBLA.

jesus-fucking-christ-already.

this is why Libertarians cant even get 15% in a two-party race.

becuase they're fucking dangerously insane and completely removed from reality.

2/12/2007 2:48:08 PM

Two possibilities. Either he felt it was not a Federal Issue, very popular among Libertarians. Or, just maybe, he felt putting people in prison for crimes they have not committed was suspect.

That said, while parents need not be expected to monitor their kids online, keeping track of where their physical kid winds up is fairly important. If the kid can run out of the house to meet a John then it can run out of the house to get Ice Cream, along the way getting hit by a car, kidnapped, beat up, or otherwise injured. I'd blame the parents for not keeping track of their kid's whereabouts.

On that note, I have a question: Let us say I wanted to kill my roommate. I set up an elaborate plan to get away with it, but when the time came to pull the trigger I just could not do it, gave up, threw away the gun. Can I be charged with anything?

joe_schmoe, are you saying pictures have harmed someone? I ask, because last I check having pictures of someone being murdered is not illegal and does not land anyone in jail. If possessing pictures of children being abused is harmful, then why is not possessing pictures of adults being murdered?

[Edited on February 12, 2007 at 2:59 PM. Reason : ^]

2/12/2007 2:57:08 PM

Quote :

" Missing and Exploited Children? we all know it's really "poor parenting" skills. This year, cast a vote for Personal Responsibility. Vote Libertarian. Because a picture never killed anyone. "

[Edited on February 12, 2007 at 3:20 PM. Reason : ]

2/12/2007 3:17:53 PM

joe_schmoe, are you saying pictures have harmed someone? I ask, because last I check having pictures of someone being murdered is not illegal and does not land anyone in jail. If possessing pictures of children being abused is harmful, then why is not possessing pictures of adults being murdered?

2/12/2007 3:26:24 PM

Quote :

" Child porn doesn't rape children. Pedophile Rapists Rape Children. Your Libertarian Party. Rolling back excessive government interference, so we can focus on protecting the children. Paid for by Citizens for First Amendment Rights "

or maybe,

Quote :

" They can take my child porn when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers Vote Libertarian "

2/12/2007 3:28:46 PM

Hey, thanks for reducing a discussion on libertarianism to strawman arguments!

2/13/2007 12:21:59 AM

His pleasure, I'm sure.

Was there something you wanted to add to the original topic of the thread?

2/13/2007 1:25:59 AM