re: (i)

Quote :

"advertising implies profit motive, they werent looking to make money...and i dont think a shirt is intended to be something you wear once and throw away"

why must i repeat myself

Quote :

"but if a flag is on a shirt, it’s a flag, as established in item (i)"

quote (i) here on TWW and see if anybody agrees with your interpretation, cause its completely false, and i can now only assume you're (political) trolling

5/7/2010 12:29:47 AM

Quote :

"According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag." According to the definition in the Flag Code, these images are flags."

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

crazy claim, lol

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/faq.htm#q031

Quote :

" Are flags on T-shirts, ties, etc., really flags? Yes "

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 12:35 AM. Reason : ]

5/7/2010 12:33:37 AM

at least post the right link, since ctrl+f doesnt confirm your like with your quote (first link)

Quote :

"[quote]Are flags on T-shirts, ties, etc., really flags? Yes"

[/quote]

Is that Betsy Ross? If not what the fuck does she know about the flag

and since you are being intentionally dishonest with your "Yes" quote, allow me to shed the light and post the entire answer to your question

Quote :

"Yes. According to the Flag Code, a flag is anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag[.""

i guess you think something that "represents the flag" is an actual flag...awesome

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 12:40 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 12:35:40 AM

^ it’s the last sentence in subsection 3 in that link. It figures that conservatives don’t know or care about proper respect for the flag.

5/7/2010 12:38:05 AM

Quote :

"a flag is a flag or anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag.""

funny when religion and blind faith are convenient isnt it...when you're blindly defending some mexican teenagers because they arent white rednecks

GOD DAMN I LOVE POLITICS

I'd just love to see some peoples' opinions if some American troops told some Iraqis that they couldn't pray to Mecca on the 4th of July

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 12:49 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 12:44:13 AM

you are all over the map there, twista

i guess that's what happens when you try to backpedal

5/7/2010 12:56:11 AM

People towing a political line often think rational independent opinions are crazy since they go against their talking points

I guess thats what happens when you consider either religion or politics are your "religion"

Its funny how atheists are wiling to put their entire faith in politicians

5/7/2010 12:57:54 AM

ha

you're the one that called me crazy for quoting what actual law says. So i guess you must be referring to yourself with that line?

5/7/2010 12:59:04 AM

I just wish you would address all of your other points that I definitively disproved instead of harping on a link I commented on before you even posted the 2nd (read: ACTUAL) link

But I must apologize to you for calling you out on a quote that was not in the original link you posted...clearly I should've known that you would edit your post and post the actual link

And then give me shit 20 minutes later about addressing the only link posted at the time of my post

i still dont understand how all the supposedly freedom oriented people are making a case for the kids being kicked out of school for the day for wearing a shirt with the flag of the country you live in...must be some of the racism for white people that apparently is ok

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:06 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 1:00:55 AM

the actual quote was in that link, i figured you had determined that already. You should re-try your command-f or brush up on your command-f skills. Aren't you in some tech related field?

And how is it relevant if YOU can't find it, but it's there? How is that my fault that you are ignorant?

And you have yet to disprove anything, except the myth that you may know what youre talking about.

5/7/2010 1:06:27 AM

Quote :

"According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag." According to the definition in the Flag Code, these images are flags."

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

crazy claim, lol

morondo me a favor

click the link and control f (dunno what the command key even is...) and see if you can find your quote in your link

THEN you can legitimately tell me "the actual quote was in that link"

Since its not

But hey, I'm ignorant because I can't find the non-existant quote in your link

But then when I admit (ok it was in the 2nd (edited) link)

you dont just say "ok you replied to my post too early, before i edited it with the proper link"

you tell me the problem is that I can't find your quote in your non existant link

5/7/2010 1:10:40 AM

5/7/2010 1:13:51 AM

not right

go to your link

search for "According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything" (which is what you quoted)

its not there

feel free to admit that you posted the wrong link for the quote, if you want to admit your mistake

I won't hate on your for it

Quote :

"the actual quote was in that link"

[NO]

or better yet, feel free to admit it is ludicrous that some kids got kicked out of school for a day for wearing US flag shirts in the US...when one of the student's dad was Mexican...fuck him for embracing the country he lives in, right?

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:28 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 1:18:19 AM

haha

lol

so you aren't upset because the link didn't say what the quote said it said (because it did), you're upset because you couldn't copy and paste the entire quote to find it? That's standard troll technique #2A.

Like i said, brush up on your ctrl-f skills (i actually said command-f so i guess i'm lying ). Further, since you don't seem to be very intelligent when it comes to technology, i'll help you out a bit. You don't know if I had to re-do line endings or space-characters, or manually put spaces in due to odd text encodings or weird adjustments to fix rendering issues (like I had to do while copy-pasting from the PDF) when i made the quote. So if you do a search and can't find something, then you try a subset of your string that's less likely to have those errors. Basic ctrl-f 101.

5/7/2010 1:27:41 AM

Quote :

"so you aren't upset because the link didn't say what the quote said it said (because it did]"

why are you blatantly lying?

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

Quote :

"According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag." According to the definition in the Flag Code, these images are flags."

I challenge any TWWer to successfully find that string of text on the link you posted, since you clearly aren't willing to admit you fucked up yet you continue to claim you are right, instead of just eating crow for 5 seconds

the problem is that you googled a summary of the flag code, posted a quote from the SUMMARY, then decided it wasn't a legit enough source so you linked a DIFFERENT source

and then you continue to refuse to admit that you are wrong

ps: still waiting for you to post (i) and address that point

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:37 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 1:30:08 AM

^
haha


(are you getting a red x or something? Because this image shows that youre 100% wrong in that entire post)

Quote :

""According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag." According to the definition in the Flag Code, these images are flags." "

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:41 AM. Reason : ]

5/7/2010 1:40:41 AM

step 1: go to http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

step 2: hit control+f (on a pc) or command+f (on a mac) or manually go to search

step 3: for the search string, enter "According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag"

step 4: search

step 5: realize the word "according" was found only twice in the link, and that moron is incapable of admitting when he fucked up, even when his general point is correct!


[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:47 AM. Reason : ^cool, your highlighted text starts with "by which"...why not with "According to"? Hmmm]

5/7/2010 1:43:46 AM

Quote :

"so you aren't upset asdfdf because the link didn't say what the quote said it said (because it did), you're upset because you couldn't copy and paste the entire quote to find it? That's standard troll technique #2A. "

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:50 AM. Reason : to throw off your control-f]

5/7/2010 1:49:05 AM

i sure do hate it when people make honest mistakes, yet cant admit them

you know whats troll technique 1a? refusing to admit when you're wrong (like moron at this very moment

I COPIED AND PASTED A SUMMARY, THEN POSTED THE WRONG LINK...HONEST MISTAKE...NOTHING THAT ANYBODY WOULD WORRY ABOUT, UNLESS I DENIED IT...SO THEN SOMEBODY CALLED ME OUT ON IT, BUT I JUST KEPT MAKING EXCUSES TO COVER UP MY TINY MISTAKE...IN THE END, IT MADE PEOPLE HATE ME

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:53 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 1:50:59 AM

^What the fuck are you still going on about? moron has you on this one, without any question whatsoever.

You're being confused by the quotation marks that TWW's [/quote] tag automatically ads in. The directly quoted bit is "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag", and moron has shown you that exact phrase twice.

You're playing something even worse than petty semantics here.

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 1:58 AM. Reason : v Wow, seriously? You've got to be trolling as hard as possible now, not even hooksaw is that dumb.]

5/7/2010 1:55:58 AM

I never knew TWW's quote marks automatically added in the verbiage "According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag or anything"

Thanks for the TWW tip on how quote tags work

^hey, another TWWer wanted to adamantly argue with me based on biased political views...but then when I presented that one of the protesting students was of Mexican descent (and not a big white redneck from the south), that user was suddenly quiet...too bad you cant do the same

5/7/2010 1:57:23 AM

ha it wasn't a mistake of any sort.

My goal wasn't to post links, it was to present the idea that a flag is a flag, even if it's printed on a shirt, which you objected to. When you realized that your opinion was wrong, instead of admitting your honest mistake, you switched over to high school english teacher mode and started to critique a bibliography in your brain that never existed.

Of course, you knew all this, but the first rule of trolling is to never admit when you're trolling.

5/7/2010 1:58:41 AM

Quote :

"My goal wasn't to post links, it was to present the idea that a flag is a flag, even if it's printed on a shirt"

I LOVE when people fuck up, I tell them to fess up and I won't get mad, but instead of fessing up, they just continue to make excuses...luckily people who agree with them politically! ^^^ have their backs!

I already called out jwb when he tried to do this...but of course he is willing to admit when he is wrong...some would say he isn't a moron

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:03 AM. Reason : ps: i didnt call out moron on semantics until he called me out on semantics]

5/7/2010 2:00:16 AM

and yet, you are still clearly wrong.

However, it does seem that the ushistory.org is linking to an older version of the US code.

The new version still says this:

Quote :

" The words ‘‘flag, standard, colors, or ensign’’, as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any sub- stance, of any size evidently purporting to be ei- ther of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person see- ing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America. "

http://www.gpo.gov:80/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2009-title4/pdf/USCODE-2009-title4-chap1.pdf
note to twista: the text in this PDF doesn't copy-past cleanly... beware!!!!

straight from the horses mouth

^ this is not a semantic issue (there is no dispute on the meaning of the words). You just are choosing to ignore reality to keep the thread going, to try and obscure that you are wrong. And i never called you on any semantic issue.

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:12 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:13 AM. Reason : ]

5/7/2010 2:10:41 AM

I am clearly wrong, because I can't find the text string in the article where moron linked an article and claimed a text string was from it

bottomline: moron is incapable of admitting when he is wrong

which is funny since he is so rarely right

also, i'm clearly ignoring reality when i ask someone to click the link they provided and find the text string they allegedly attributed to the link, even though it simply isnt there...thats my fault, that someone googles a summary, posts it, then links a more legitimate source, even though its literally not the same link that the quote was taken from

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:14 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 2:12:47 AM

treetwista

Quote :

"Quote moron: "but if a flag is on a shirt, it’s a flag, as established in item (i)" quote (i) here on TWW and see if anybody agrees with your interpretation, cause its completely false, and i can now only assume you're (political) trolling"

who is wrong?

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:14 AM. Reason : ]

5/7/2010 2:14:18 AM

well, for starters, you could actually quote (i), which I already pointed out wasn't applicable due to:

- no profit motive
- t-shirts arent something you wear then throw in the garbage after one use

but please, try to win over other people with your opinions and reasoning idiocy

5/7/2010 2:16:37 AM

Quote :

" am clearly wrong, because I can't find the text string in the article where moron linked an article and claimed a text string was from it"

Even if this were a true and genuine statement (which it isn't, obviously), it would say nothing about moron and everything about your own gross incompetence and lack of comprehension.

Quote :

"- no profit motive"

T-shirt manufacturers aren't looking to make a profit? When did this happen?
Those kids didn't iron on the flag logo themselves.

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:17 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 2:16:47 AM

it is true

so again, you're just towing the political line

congratulations on being a mindless political zombie

Quote :

"T-shirt manufacturers aren't looking to make a profit?"

these high school kids were manufacturing t-shirts? wow thats a new one to me, i havent read about this in any of the articles...i guess the kid of Mexican descent was trying to just make a buck...thanks for your genius insight

5/7/2010 2:18:00 AM

^ so you're saying, contrary to USCODE title 4 chapter 1 subsection 3, that a flag on a shirt is not actually a flag?

5/7/2010 2:19:19 AM

There isn't even a political line in this discussion. There is what the flag code says and what exists in reality. It's purely factual, there are no sides and opinions here besides one which is correct and one which is incorrect.

You're just resorting to trolling here to cover up the fact that you picked the incorrect one from the start.

Quote :

"these high school kids were manufacturing t-shirts? "

It says Old Navy. Right there on the goddamned shirt.
This thread hasn't been arguing about the high school kids for quite a while now. How did you miss that?
We are discussing the idea that "having the flag on a shirt is disrespectful in the first place." Clearly, Old Navy and those other t-shirt brands are being disrespectful to the flag, as per the flag code.

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:22 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 2:20:28 AM

The incorrect what?

Quote :

"There isn't even a political line in this discussion."

ahaha that shit is pretty funny spookyjon has probably been the only person ITT to cross party lines on this issue

but please, go ahead and say this isnt political

hahah god damn i laugh at people who are political

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:22 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 2:21:30 AM

that a flag on a shirt is not actually a flag

5/7/2010 2:22:35 AM

^^The incorrect SIDE, you fucking illiterate.

moron and I aren't talking about the high school kids at all. They haven't been mentioned recently by anyone but you. You're completely lost, here, seeing as you clearly don't even know what the rest of us are talking about anymore.

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:24 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 2:23:02 AM

Quote :

"moron and I aren't talking about the high school kids at all. They haven't been mentioned recently by anyone but you"

my bad, i thought this thread was actually about...this thread

the only sad thing is that TheDuke is going to blame me more than anyone else (for pulling moron's card)

still though, if i'm SO WRONG, it should be pretty easy to satisfy this request, right?

Quote :

"step 1: go to http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm step 2: hit control+f (on a pc) or command+f (on a mac) or manually go to search step 3: for the search string, enter "According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag" step 4: search step 5: realize the word "according" was found only twice in the link, and that moron is incapable of admitting when he fucked up, even when his general point is correct!"

5/7/2010 2:27:42 AM

Quote :

"We are discussing the idea that "having the flag on a shirt is disrespectful in the first place." Clearly, Old Navy and those other t-shirt brands are being disrespectful to the flag, as per the flag code. "

It's not inherently disrespectful per the letter of the law from my understanding unless they allow the flag to become in poor condition (which they did) then not dispose of it respectfully, typically by burning for natural fibers (which I doubt they are going to do).

5/7/2010 2:28:01 AM

Quote :

"my bad, i thought this thread was actually about...this thread"

Discussions progress between topics. You've been living in society for at least 20-something years, now, so how did you manage to miss out on the concept?
Though kudos for finally admitting "my bad". This is a big step forward.


Hell, TSB is especially notable for this, as topicality is almost never enforced. I looked into the Healthcare Thread the other day, and it was talking about global warming. There's established precedent here for gradually going off-topic.

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:31 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 2:28:33 AM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=594348&page=3#13978293

Twista clearly knew what was being discussed, he just couldn't admit he was blatantly wrong

5/7/2010 2:29:06 AM

cool, you posted a link in this thread, to this thread

awesome job

i'm just wondering if you or any of your cronies are capable of yet finding your text string in your link

since you still claim you are right

shouldnt be tough, right? should be easy, right? well then do it, whats the problem? why so much trouble?

i've posted it multiple times...yet you just ignore it...hmm...maybe because you fucked up and can't admit it...hahah maybe, more like definitely

here, i'll post it again, since you keep ignoring it

step 1: go to http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

step 2: hit control+f (on a pc) or command+f (on a mac) or manually go to search

step 3: for the search string, enter "According to the Flag Code, a flag is a flag"

step 4: search

step 5: realize the word "according" was found only twice in the link, and that moron is incapable of admitting when he fucked up, even when his general point is correct!"


[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:36 AM. Reason : its a shame people fuck up but cant admit it...talk about accountability...sigh]

5/7/2010 2:31:32 AM

^ so what are you saying?

That the quote is wrong? That the quote misrepresents the link? That the quote isn't quoting the text directly from the link?

The the word "according" is more pertinent to the issue of if a flag is a flag, than the text "flags are flags if they look like flags" (you can't control-f that in case you don't realize it, which i'm sure you don't)?

5/7/2010 2:41:28 AM

Quote :

"That the quote is wrong? That the quote misrepresents the link? That the quote isn't quoting the text directly from the link?"

how about this

that the quote and the link associated with it werent the same?

that you quoted a story...but instead of posting a link to what you quoted...you posted a link to a different source?

thats fine...everybody does it...quote a people-friendly summary, quote a more detailed story

but why deny it?

and before you or anyone else tries to do the usual and blame me for this thread derailing or whatever...bear in mind you called ME out on MY verbiage before i ever did anything

5/7/2010 2:45:56 AM

Quote :

"that you quoted a story...but instead of posting a link to what you quoted...you posted a link to a different source? "

haha

so

Quote :

"Yes. According to the Flag Code, a flag is anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag"

is a story now? what story is that?

it's from a FAQ, which had its link posted already, which you had already determined by the time this was posted.

so, do you know see that you were wrong, and that a flag on a shirt is a flag?

5/7/2010 2:49:11 AM

A flag on a shirt is a flag? My bad, I thought it was a shirt with a flag on it.

I guess a shirt with a gun on it is a gun

I guess a shirt with a car on it requires you to pay property tax

I guess a shirt with a college's logo on it is a college

Thanks for appealing to common sense, I'm much more likely to believe what you say because of that.

5/7/2010 2:51:29 AM

An actual flag is just a symbolic image anyway... so any reprinting of the image is going to retain the same symbolism. This is the reasoning behind that bit of the flag code.

More physically, a flag is a specific arrangement of colored pigments/dyes on cloth. This is also true for a shirt-flag.

None of your analogies are actually any good.


...I'm also wondering why you're bothering to argue with the flag code when it is very plainly telling you that you are wrong. You aren't going to change its mind.

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 2:58 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 2:57:54 AM

LOL

http://www.gpo.gov:80/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2009-title4/pdf/USCODE-2009-title4-chap1.pdf

I highly doubt there is any law saying that a picture of a gun is a gun.

haha

5/7/2010 2:58:12 AM

Quote :

"...I'm also wondering why you're bothering to argue with the flag code when it is telling you that you are wrong. You aren't going to change its mind. "

I can imagine twista now crafting a letter to his senator asserting that the flag code is entirely wrong about what a flag is. lol

5/7/2010 2:59:06 AM

I can imagine moron continuing to argue with himself that his link and quote matched up, even though zero TWWers can find his string of text in his link...feel free to match them up and prove me wrong...anyone...I just know its impossible

Which would be fine...if he was humble enough to admit fucking up...but no, he knows he is always right, even though nobody can pass my test

Yet I am of course wrong...even though, once again, nobody can pass my test of verifying that his link and quote don't go together

But again, why does that even matter when people who agree with you politically will blindly support you in TSB!

Quote :

"I can imagine twista now crafting a letter to his senator"

Yeah...I don't vote...yet I'm going to write a letter to my senator...could there possibly be a better example of moron being a dumbass?

5/7/2010 3:04:14 AM

actually, 'boner doesn't agree with me, he agrees with the US federal law code, title 4, chapter 1 subsection 3.

5/7/2010 3:08:53 AM

Quote :

"why does that even matter when people who agree with you politically will blindly support you in TSB!"

Agree with him politically? I just think you're being obtuse.


For the record, I'm opposed to any high school dress codes which censor based upon content (i.e. the image or words printed on the shirt)... So long as the students aren't wearing something physically disruptive (excessively little clothing, excessively large or hanging clothing, that sort of thing), they should be allowed to wear whatever they want.

5/7/2010 3:10:28 AM

^^how about you post that for the rest of the thread since the law is still unclear...maybe give the TSBers something to reference

^i dont think im being obtuse as much as being a sucker who falls for his semantics games, although i can admit when i do something wrong in that respect instead of falling into a case of constant denial, which is obvious if you actually looked at what he was denying...I only figured you were agreeing with him politically as I didn't understand how anyone could agree with him otherwise

[Edited on May 7, 2010 at 3:13 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2010 3:10:37 AM