A lot of backtracking ITT

Look it up, the original discussion revolved around an i5-2500K Sandy Bridge (3.3Ghz) vs. a i7-950 Bloomfield (3.06Ghz)... stop trying to play it off like you've always been talking about two processors on the same architecture.

/message_topic.aspx?topic=472002&page=47#14747269

9/13/2011 3:19:51 PM

That was an entirely different discussion and I'm not playing anything off. You missed my point in that discussion and you're missing it in this one.

All I'm saying is your statement:

Quote :

""should give you an indication of how irrelevant frequency is nowadays on "real-world" cpu performance. ""

IMO is quite misleading. That's all. Which it is. You've made as many if not more generalizations about "performance" than I have. When it gets down to it we're just arguing in circles for the sake of it. And it's amusing as JBaz points out.

9/13/2011 3:25:45 PM

Yea, amusing is a good word for it. Just stop. You aren't debating, you're just flipping words trying to turn it back on me.

9/13/2011 3:51:46 PM

Not entirely. I just think you're downplaying frequency when in some instances that's ALL that matters. Take a company that uses a specific line of laptops for example. They're probably all the same generation chip and the sole measure of performance between them is the clock frequency.

All I'm saying is frequency isn't always irrelevant like you pointed out.

Yes I did argue this point just to play devils advocate but that's what the internet is for.

9/13/2011 4:03:11 PM

Who here is a company looking to buy laptops? Did you forget where you were? Did you seriously think that I can't tell the difference between 3.3Ghz & 3.0Ghz? You read the threads, you know I overclock, you know I push my CPU to the limits, why would I do that if I didn't think frequency mattered? I'm not downplaying it at all, all of my statements have been in context to comparing cpu's performance for people on TWW looking to buy parts to put together a computer. Of which I guarantee you nobody comes in here asking what to buy a 3.0Ghz processor or a 3.3Ghz processor... would you blindly say the 3.3Ghz processor without at least consulting them on the differences between CPU architectures? It's what makes this Tech Talk and not Chit Chat.

9/13/2011 4:14:45 PM

Anyhow, this was posted yesterday, but thought it was a good preview on the new SandyBridge-E and X79 chipset if people haven't seen it yet:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-3960x-x79-performance,3026.html

It may behoove some people to actually read the article to understand why this can happen:

Quote :

"There was a lot to like about Intel’s Sandy Bridge launch earlier this year. Single-threaded performance increased significantly at any given frequency. Quick Sync demonstrated commanding dominance over GPU-based transcoding from AMD and Nvidia. And, although I wasn’t over-enthused about paying extra for a K-series SKU, a mature 32 nm process easily facilitated clock rates approaching 5 GHz on air cooling. Combined, all of those attributes took the spotlight off of Intel’s old (but still flagship) LGA 1366 interface. Even the subsequent Core i7-990X refresh, which threw six cores and a higher clock rate into the ring, wasn’t able to outperform the Core i7-2600K in enough test scenarios to warrant its $1000 price tag. The very fastest (and most expensive) Sandy Bridge-based chip could satisfy 95% of enthusiasts at less than half of the cost. The Gulftown design’s real redeeming quality was its core count advantage, which shone most brightly in well-threaded workstation apps. But really, that was pretty much it. We even went to great lengths to show the X58’s 36 lanes of PCI Express 2.0 weren’t a real advantage over Sandy Bridge’s 16 lanes in multi-GPU configurations through an exhaustive three-part series. At the end of the day, we had to scratch our heads and wonder how many folks would be willing to spend almost $700 more on Core i7-990X when Core i7-2600K was already so fast, and priced at $315."

FREQUENCY AIN'T SHIT

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 4:31 PM. Reason : .]

9/13/2011 4:23:16 PM

No one but I still made the point. I just think this:

Quote :

"should give you an indication of how irrelevant frequency is nowadays on "real-world" cpu performance."

and

Quote :

"You read the threads, you know I overclock, you know I push my CPU to the limits, why would I do that if I didn't think frequency mattered?"

don't mesh. Nor does this:

Quote :

"I'm not downplaying it at all, all of my statements have been in context to comparing cpu's performance for people on TWW looking to buy parts to put together a computer."

Because in that instance frequency WOULD play a big factor. One of the many reasons to go with Sandybridge is it's ability to be overclocked COMPARED to other chips which don't have the same unlocked multiplier, etc.

So no matter which way you twist it frequency is always a big factor whether you're discussing the same generation chip or which processor is better for overclocking.

I think your initial point was frequency is less important now-a-days because there's so much variance in processor architecture. When in fact I think it's MORE important because architecture drives the ability to control frequency at a much higher and controlled rate compared to past generations of chips.

V, again I don't think that's relevant to what my point was. You're avoiding the topic. At no point today was I making any comparison between chips. My main point today was addressing your statement in regard to frequency.

Quote :

"FREQUENCY AIN'T SHIT"

You're continuously contradicting yourself!

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 4:37 PM. Reason : s]

9/13/2011 4:26:01 PM

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR: READ AND STOP POSTING

^article above should explain everything i've posted here.

Edit:
My comments about overclocking have to do with the VERY LAST thing you can do to milk every drop of performance out of a processor. If you can't grasp the other 99% of what impacts processor performance more than frequency, I can't help you.

Do I need to qualify everything for you? It's not a contradiction, you are just not comprehending what you're reading.

When compared to architecture, die-size, and about a bazillion other things, frequency ain't shit.

Overclocking at home is the last thing you can do about it. And it's something that's done AFTER YOU BUY THE PROCESSOR.

I'm just going to repost this until you comprehend it:

Quote :

"Combined, all of those attributes took the spotlight off of Intel’s old (but still flagship) LGA 1366 interface. Even the subsequent Core i7-990X refresh, which threw six cores and a higher clock rate into the ring, wasn’t able to outperform the Core i7-2600K in enough test scenarios to warrant its $1000 price tag. The very fastest (and most expensive) Sandy Bridge-based chip could satisfy 95% of enthusiasts at less than half of the cost."

Quote :

"I think your initial point was frequency is less important now-a-days because there's so much variance in processor architecture."

First part is correct, you got it.

Quote :

"When in fact I think it's MORE important because architecture drives the ability to control frequency at a much higher and controlled rate compared to past generations of chips."

Second part is wrong. Frequency isn't changing thus not more important, most of the latest processors are in the 3.0-3.3Ghz range. The processor's architectures and physical design are getting MORE EFFICIENT! Hence they can PROCESS MORE with the SAME EXACT FREQUENCY!

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 4:48 PM. Reason : .]

9/13/2011 4:30:33 PM

It seems like what Prospero is saying is put the majority of your time in researching the processor architecture itself, and the frequency will flow naturally from the initial processor architecture chosen. Frequency is important, but not nearly as important as the processor architecture, as the difference between a 5.0 OC, and a 4.6 OC, actually depends upon the processor, not the stock frequency.

It's like with a lot of things. If you buy a great engine 5 liter 500 horsepower engine, any mods that you make to it after the fact, are directly tied to the engine you chose. The end result may be 660 horsepower with one engine (processor architecture) or just 590 with another. Although the increase from the base 500 horsepower is still important (frequency), as it's the entire reason you are doing this in the first place, it's not what should have drove you to do it (pun intended), the 5 liter 500 horsepower engine is what matters the most (processor architecture).

tldr

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 4:57 PM. Reason : -]

9/13/2011 4:50:50 PM

^bingo.

I wouldn't associate HP with frequency though. frequency would be more like liters. HP is the performance you get out of based upon how efficient the engine is.

So you can buy two different 5.0L engines (frequency), one's Chevy, one's Ford, depending on HOW the engine was engineered will give you different HP outputs.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 4:59 PM. Reason : .]

9/13/2011 4:51:34 PM

It should be enough to explain the concept though, granted my analogy was rough and thought up in about 2 minutes, lol.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 4:59 PM. Reason : -]

9/13/2011 4:58:52 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~END~DISCUSSION~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Fq~vs~Chipset~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Anyhow, anyone interested, newegg has the 2x4gb G.Skill cas9 1600 ram on sale for $40 shipped.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

Its funny cause its the exact same model that I advised Axelay earlier this week to get and watch for a sales price. heh

9/13/2011 4:59:19 PM

It's not chipset dammit. LOL. Last thought and I'm dropping it. The Core i7-990X refresh and the Core i7-2600K will be on the market at the same time, with one being 3.4Ghz and the other 3.43Ghz, it's very important to explain to the general public that it's not just about frequency. One may even assume that the i7-990X with the higher price tag would be better, but it's not. So it's very important to understand.

^that's CHEAP! i have Ripjaw X's and love 'em. HIGHLY recommend G.Skill Ripjaws.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 5:04 PM. Reason : /]

9/13/2011 5:00:35 PM

I don't care, get back on track, talk about building computers.

9/13/2011 5:02:23 PM

I was, read this, it's full of good info on the new Intel chips coming along with the new chipsets...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-3960x-x79-performance,3026.html

Also I'd like to hit on this post by neodata686 in the HTPC thread:

Quote :

"http://www.hardware-revolution.com/budget-htpc-august-2011/ Some good stuff on there. Uses: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157247"

This actually looks really intriguing, does anyone have any experience with the new AMD A-series CPU's? From the little bit of reading I've done they seem to be killing Intel's ATOM for an integrated GPU solution and at that price point (<$300) for an HTPC... that makes me what to build one again.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 5:09 PM. Reason : .]

9/13/2011 5:05:12 PM

lol

I'm loving their reviews of the Core i7-2600K. That's my engine.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 5:06 PM. Reason : -]

9/13/2011 5:05:40 PM

Quote :

"you are just not comprehending what you're reading."

Again you're arguing C and I'm arguing A to B. You're missing my point entirely. You're trying to make an argument where there isn't one. I completely understand what you're saying. I'm just not addressing it.

Quote :

"The processor's architectures and physical design are getting MORE EFFICIENT! Hence they can PROCESS MORE with the SAME EXACT FREQUENCY!"

You keep stating this. This is obvious and given. You're grasping at straws here.

Quote :

"Frequency isn't changing thus not more important,"

This simply isn't true. Newer architecture is providing more users and vendors with the ability to adjust the frequency dynamically with overclocking and features like turbo and speedstep. Intel markets these features by offering a lower frequency/smaller multiplier when needed and a boost/higher multiplier when needed. Frequency is a major selling point of Sandybridge. I'd argue the ability to dynamically adjust frequency to balance power/performance with energy consumption is one of the most important factors of processors today and it's ALL about frequency.

Quote :

"It seems like what Prospero is saying is put the majority of your time in researching the chipset itself, and the frequency will flow naturally from the initial chipset chosen. Frequency is important, but not nearly as important as the chipset, as the difference between a 5.0 OC, and a 4.6 OC, actually depends upon the Chipset, not the stock frequency."

Agreed I was never disputing this. I just wasn't arguing it nor was I addressing it. I was restricting my discussion to frequency and how it plays a roll in performance on a chip by chip basis. I don't care if frequency plays a 50% role or 0.05% role in your opinion. Lately I've been messing around with different clock speeds trying to find what I'm happy with and I could care less about the architecture of a chip I don't have. This is a build thread. While it's about building computers and buying parts it's also about manipulating chips you currently own. Hence the emphasis on frequency.

I too like G.Skill Ripjaws.

Quote :

"This actually looks really intriguing, does anyone have any experience with the new AMD A-series CPU's? From the little bit of reading I've done they seem to be killing Intel's ATOM for an integrated GPU solution"

My friends taking my suggestion and building one based upon that AMD chip. I'll report back when it's done.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 5:09 PM. Reason : s]

9/13/2011 5:08:15 PM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, took a tip from JBaz and bought 16gb of RAM. First component of the new computer is on the way!

9/13/2011 7:32:47 PM

Quote :

"This actually looks really intriguing, does anyone have any experience with the new AMD A-series CPU's? From the little bit of reading I've done they seem to be killing Intel's ATOM for an integrated GPU solution and at that price point (<$300) for an HTPC... that makes me what to build one again."

I have the A6 in my cheap Asus 15" laptop and I like it. There's a few quirks about the laptop itself, but its pretty fucking powerful for 450. I just love how the hdmi + audio works flawless to movies on a tv anywhere. However my laptop has a dedicated video card as well, the 6650, while the APU is 6520, but the APU's graphics is no slouch either. I can play dirt2 at 60fps, sc2 at 50, bc2 around 30 and so on...

My only complaint is that the APU is still very new and the drivers both the chipset and graphics aren't there yet. The asynchronous crossfire support still has its kinks to work out, but it should be promising for AMD in the long run. It would be nice to add gpu power without having to worry about proper pairs and such.

The only downsides about the laptop is that it has a very slow hdd, another yet slow ram and the display resolution seems too small for a 15". But the actual 4 cores on the cpu is solid plus the graphics. I mean for that price range, what else are you gonna kill hookers and steal cars in?

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 8:01 PM. Reason : ]

9/13/2011 7:59:09 PM

Does Newegg price match themselves? I JUST bought that G.Skill RAM for 55 bucks!!

9/13/2011 11:07:58 PM

this thread isn't fun anymore

9/14/2011 12:47:17 AM

What is the last fun post?

9/14/2011 12:48:11 AM

Quote :

"Does Newegg price match themselves? I JUST bought that G.Skill RAM for 55 bucks!!"

If you bought the part within a certain period of time and did an online chat with their customer service, I think your chances of getting the difference is good. I haven't personally done it, but plenty of people on SD have and it worked.

Try it. Doesn't hurt to ask. Newegg CS is usually good about stuff like this.

9/14/2011 5:27:59 AM

Oh shit it's time to build a new rig!!!

Got a few questions, hoping someone can point me in a good direction.

So I need to build a new desktop for both work/play. The work part I'm not overly worried about, I don't run high-intensity applications for my job, just a couple of web browsers. The play part is more important to me, as I'd like solid performance from the games I'm planning on playing on it (SC2, Diablo 3, dual-box EVE Online).

Trying to stay under $1500.

Been looking at desktop hardware for the first time in a while, and was curious about:

Processors: Saw Ivy Bridge got pushed back to Q2 of 2012. Not planning on overclocking. Should I look for performance or get something that'll hold me over for a year and then upgrade?

SLI: Has this gotten any more useful over the past few years? Don't know if it will matter with the types of games I'll be playing, but I'm not against using a bazooka to kill a fly. Graphical performance is going to be a big deal for me.

Storage: SSD for the OS, 2 disk raid for file storage is the plan. Good idea? Bad idea? Who's HDs are the shit these days?

Power Supply: Modular, gimmick or useful? Who makes the best PSUs today?

Case: Solid, efficient airflow is a big deal for me. Looking for something well made that delivers very good throughput. Not interested in a gimmicky light show.

Any and all advice is welcome!

9/14/2011 8:01:46 AM

http://pcper.com/hwlb

Quote :

"Intel Core i7-2600K $315.00 Intel's new SandyBridge CPU family still has the i7-2600K as its flagship processor. The K denotes this as an unlocked processor which everyone is glad to see that Intel is releasing again. A quick overclocking test on air cooling with no voltage change showed that 4.5GHz is easily reachable and thanks to the advanced power saving on these chips your CPU will also downclock when there is no load on the chip. If you want to shave about $100 off of the cost of the system you can opt for the i5-2500 which is not much slower in comparison and not unlocked though it doesn't require you to change anyof the other components in this system. Motherboard ASUS P8Z68-V PRO $209.00 For the first review of a Z68 board on PC Perspective Ryan and Al chose the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO, with three PCI Express x16 slots, four SATA 3.0 Gb/s and four SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports and a pair of USB 3.0 ports. Even more interesting is support for Intel's new SRT allowing you to use a small SSD as a cache for a standard HDD and still see the boot times and launch times you would with a large SSD as your system drive. You even get Lucid's Virtu allowing you to bounce between the onboard graphics of the i7-2600 and your discreet GPU on the fly. Video Card Sapphire Radeon HD 6950 Dirt3 Edition 2GB (Wait awhile to buy the second card for SLI) $265.00 Last month it was the XFX HD 6950 1GB version which made it onto the Leaderboard, and it still stands ... if you are not planning on using EyeFinity. Upon further review, it seems likely that the high end system is going to end up as an EyeFinity machine, and running 5760x1080 will be a much better experience if you spend a little extra and pick up a 2GB version. That puts a pair of Sapphire 100312-3SR Radeon HD 6950 Dirt3 Edition 2GB cards in the High End Leaderboard system, not only because it is a good deal but because those who have tried the BIOS unlock tend to have more success on the Sapphire cards. You will also appreciate the custom dual fan design on these cards when stressing them and the dual BIOS when flashing. The $20 MIR drops it to $255 and the Deus Ex: Human Revolution coupon is a great bonus, though Sapphire might want to change the name of the card. Memory CORSAIR XMS 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 $64.00 The new SandyBridge platform supports dual channel DDR3, not triple channel like the X58 board does which necessitates a change in the DIMMs present in the High End machine. That does not mean that you have to reduce the memory, in fact it makes sense to increase the total system memory to 8GB with a pair of 4GB DIMMs. The large pool of RAM will help some of your x64 applications and it might just live through an upgrade when the Socket 2011 and quad channel RAM hit the market. You even get free shipping from NewEgg. Hard Drive HITACHI Deskstar 1.5TB & Intel 310 40GB SSD $170.00 This one's a two-fer thanks to the Z68, a Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB drive and an Intel 310 40GB SSD. Okay, it's not as fast as an OCZ Vertex 3 but it holds more than 120GBs, but you can go that way if you must though you will still need to buy a storage drive. With the SATA II SSD as your cache you will benefit from Intel's new SRT, the benefits of which Al demonstrates in depth. That means the 1.5TB (300GB and 1.1TB-ish if you do it right) of storage you have as your main drive responds almost like it was an SSD. All that for the price of admission to the 120GB OCZ Vertex 2 from a few months back. The days of the DeathStar are past, for those of you that remember. Sound Card Asus Xonar DX $70.00 Asus Xonar DX Sound Card We have been dominated by Creative Labs sound cards for years, but we finally think we have another option for high-end systems in the form of the Asus Xonar D2. Based on a custom chip and utilizing technologies from Dolby and others, this sound card offers quite a unique take on audio and sits in that unused 1x PCI-E slot! There is a $20 MIR at Newegg to drop it to $50 after the fact. Power Supply Antec High Current Gamer HCG-750 $105.00 The most recent PSU to survive Lee's testbed is the 750W Antec High Current Gamer HCG-750; not only did it survive it walked away with a Gold Award. The most important part of a PC is the PSU, without one you just have an expensive paper weight and this PSU will not disappoint. It is NVIDIA SLI-Ready and ATI CrossFire certified, a good thing for this dual GPU build and it is 80+ Bronze Certified to ensure you don't pay for power you aren't using. To make the deal even sweeter, NewEgg offers a $25 MIR to drop the price to $80 and offers free shipping. Case Corsair Carbide Series 400R Graphite ATX Mid Tower Gaming Case $109.99 Editor’s Choice at techpowerup.com. For the price this case has some amazing features including removable dust filters and AMAZING cable management. The fans included are more than enough to cool a machine worthy of overclocking. The rubber grommets for liquid cooling easily double as cable management tools. The front buttons and inputs are very useful as you can turn the 2 front 120mm fan LED's off as well as the power/reset buttons being responsive. Overall this case is very well worth the price and is worth 150+ Case is very well made especially for the price point. Total Price: 1307.99 "

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 8:45 AM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 8:33:13 AM

I want a lot of that system. I'm debating how much I'll really need an i7 when it seems if you look around the market, a majority are using the i5 and having no issues at all. But it'd be sweet to have nonetheless.

9/14/2011 9:51:11 AM

It's a great high-end system. I went with many of the components of the dream system listed within that link I provided. It will certainly perform well with any new game. If you really want to go SLI/Crossfire, I would wait to buy your second card until after the games come out and you know your raw FPS in the games you are playing. This approach serves a dual purpose of actually knowing your FPS in these games, and the price of your second card should be lower after the game releases. Also, an important note, you would be insane to go SLI/Crossfire to achieve FPS 60+ @ Max Settings, and not buy the Acer 120 Hertz Input monitor (previously linked in this thread by me), as your display would then be bottle-necking your cards ass-kickery.

Acer: http://www.amazon.com/Acer-HN274H-BMIIID-27-Inch-Monitor/dp/B004YCMEJU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 10:08 AM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 9:59:56 AM

The Acer is pretty awesome (for a TN panel).

9/14/2011 10:07:13 AM

It's as good as it gets as of today. I'm sure that will change in the future, but it's the only gaming monitor for SLI/Crossfire gamers that I recommend.

9/14/2011 10:11:24 AM

^^^makes a good point about FPS & Monitor

Processors: The i5-2500K is more than enough right now, holds it's own and is still the best bang for the buck, it i7-2600K is a close second. They i7-2600K does have 4 more threads (total of 8) but as pointed out earlier that doesn't mean much unless you are using applications that use more than 4 threads. Otherwise they don't make that much of a difference. I'd pocket the $100 for when Ivy/SandyBridge-E comes out.

SLI: Yes, the best performance for the dollar is getting (2) 6950's and flashing their BIOS to perform at the 6970 rates.

Storage: Good plan. Western Digital Black are the shit. For the SSD I'd try to get 96-120GB or more. 60GB isn't enough for the OS drive + games.

Power Supply: Modular PSU's are awesome, not a gimmick, gives you much better air flow through the case the less cables you have, not a "must" have, but all my latest builds use modular. Best PSU's are Corsair, great warranty, great products, good price. Seasonic, FSP Group, Enermax, Antec, OCZ, Cooler Master are all good too, but warranty period might be less.

Case: I stick to Antec & Corsair for cases. I recommended the Antec P183 and the Corsair Carbide Series 400R earlier.

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 10:25 AM. Reason : /]

9/14/2011 10:22:19 AM

So I called about getting my older Dell 2408 replaced (it randomly flickers) and I got lucky and it had a few more months on the warranty (got it in early 2009).

Dell sent me a U2410 H-IPS display as a replacement.

So now I have an IPS, TN, and S-PVA monitor. Haha. Luckily after calibrating them they are pretty consistent across all 3.

So my question is. When viewing 3D on the Acer TN the Dell 2408 S-PVA flickers but the U2410 IPS does not. I noticed this after I got my other S-PVA replaced with the IPS. I simply turn off the S-PVA when using 3D but I wonder why this is. They're both at 60hz. I guess it's because of how the H-IPS works compared to the S-PVA.

9/14/2011 10:27:08 AM

^ I'm sure dual monitor's in 3D is pretty awesome! I'd have to dig to find out, it may have something to do with the monitor type specifically.

I agree with Prospero's assessment on everything except the SSD. When you use the SSD as the cache drive for the Western Digital, you will get SSD comparable speeds on the Western Digital drive. The SSD itself uses the Mobo's Intel SRT cache technology, which basically increases the natural cache of the HDD by using the storage space of the SSD to supplement it. I believe the maximum cache space is 64GB, for Intel's SRT tech, so exceeding 64GB SSD for the cache would not be cost-effective. So basically, the Intel SRT tech turns a normally fast Western Digital 1TB HDD, into a SSD cached HDD, with comparable SSD speed for files that you access repeatedly (Windows/Games). It swallows the SSD entirely, it won't appear in windows explorer. If you use an SSD that exceeds 64GB, it will create a partition of whatever isn't cached in windows explorer, which is a waste.

On a personal note, I have a 120GB Vertex 3 SSD as my OS/Steam games drive, and I'm planning on buying a 64GB Vertex 3 SSD, with a 3TB Western Digital as my SRT-powered data drive. Down the road I may buy a bigger 240GB or 500GB SSD for steam games, and then just make the 120GB SSD Windows, and the SRT drive will always be data (not games).

Intel's SRT (Smart Response Technology): http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/intel-z68-chipset-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching-review/2

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 11:08 AM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 10:48:59 AM

Quote :

"^ I'm sure dual monitor's in 3D is pretty awesome! I'd have to dig to find out, it may have something to do with the monitor type specifically."

Sorry to specify. I only have the one 3D monitor (Acer). Both Dells (U2410 and 2408) are regular. When using the 3D glasses the 2408 flickers (like when you see a CRT on video) but the U2410 does not.

Was just wondering if it's a difference in how S-PVA works compared to H-IPS because they're both at 60hz. I turn off both Dell's when using 3D on the Acer anyway.

9/14/2011 11:07:37 AM

Ah, gotcha. So why keep the other two on at all, if only one monitor is 3D?

Never mind, just read that you turn them off.

I would bet it has something to do with the monitor itself (machine-specific) or the type of monitor (global issue), or possibly drivers. However, I doubt that would be a well-documented known issue for the Nvidia 3D Tech, as there may not be many people with your type of monitor setup testing Nvidia 3D Tech, but I could be wrong.

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 11:19 AM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 11:10:25 AM

I might know why. The monitor should be refreshing at 60hz and the glasses shutter at 60hz so if the S-PVA is slightly off at 59hz or something then I'd see flicker.

Not a huge deal. They get turned off anyway.

But yeah the Acer is crazy fast. Hardly any input lag. Everything is so amazingly smooth.

9/14/2011 11:27:50 AM

What games are you running at a sustained 120 FPS @ 120 Hertz?

So far my favorite is Deus Ex, that shit looks incredible, and Dead Space 2.

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 11:36 AM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 11:35:25 AM

Did you 2410 looked pretty spot on with the colors out of the box? My 2410 had a strong reddish tint when i got it and still does unless i load a custom calibration profile. Like all the white space would be slightly pink as compared to my other monitor (ST2410). Also, after calibration, i do not see THAT much of a dynamic range or color reproduction difference between the TN and the IPS panel. Yes, there are some additional shades of white that are seen on the U and not on the ST, and the viewing angles are better (which would have metteed if i moved around my computer) but overall I am dissapoint.

9/14/2011 11:40:57 AM

both of my 6950 toxics unlocked to 6970s

but my crucial m4 is only showing about half the expected performance...i'm really stumped here.

I installed Windows 7 with the correct BIOS settings for the SATA devices (not IDE)......the m4 is plugged into an intel 6 gbps port

idk what else I should be doing

9/14/2011 11:54:08 AM

Do you know what firmware you are running, if there is an update?

http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/Crucial-M4-Firmware-0009-Update-and-Feedback-Thread/td-p/61109

My Vertex 3 needed to have the firmware updated and the performance boosted incredibly.

OR

What Mobo do you have? Do you have Intel and Marvel 6.0 Sata III? It may be plugged into the non-Intel one.

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 12:01 PM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 11:56:38 AM

scratch that, i am an idiot

i hata my sata cables crossed and the optical drive was on the 6gbps port

feel free to laugh me out of this thread

9/14/2011 12:08:10 PM

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 12:14 PM. Reason : double post....but here are the stats. Not sure if they are avg or what, just data from fresh inst]

9/14/2011 12:08:38 PM

I pretty much agree with Stimwalt i7 build but save a few bucks by going with some more value focused components.

Processor
i5 2500k ($219)
Practically the best value of price and performance right now in the i core family. Save 1/3 the price of the i7 and still have system that basically equals the power of the previous i7 gen cpu's.

DDR3 RAM
g.skill ddr3 1600 ($40 for 8gb)
Why spend an extra 24 bucks for the corsair's when g.skill has the exact same spec ram for cheap? At this price, just pick up 16gb. If you plan on OC, then spend the money on some 2133 speedy ram, or regular 1600 speed but 1.25 or 1.35v ram. I'm not the one to talk to about OC since I'm very conservative with my OC.

Motherboard
While the Asus P8Z68-V pro is a wonderful board, you can nearly save $80 by going with the GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 that's around $122. It has most of the same features as the more expensive asus, except for only 2 6gb sata connectors (4 on asus), less audio ports (moot point if you get the sound card), and doesn't support 2200 OC ram. Both have SLI/Crossfire support, but asus allows you do a 3-way instead of a 2-way, which I highly doubt you'd be able to afford on a 1500 budget... 3 way I mean.

SSD & Harddrive
For $1500 and the extra savings by going with an i5, get a decent 96 or 120gb drive out, those can be around the 150-200 mark. The 40gb Intel ssd is way too costly for what you'd be using for as the SRT drive. I'd personally look at the Corsair m4 128gb ssd as those has been seen to float around $160 shipped on slickdeals a few times. Add a cheap 2TB 5900rpm drive for around 60-70 and you're set for a while, shit grab two or three of them for a cheap raid setup.

Alternatively, just grab a 2tb drive and a kingston 64 or 96 v100+ when they get on sale. The 64 has been seen between $50-60 while the 96 around $90-100; finally reaching the sub $1/gb mark. They are slow ssd's, but its still much faster than any mechanical hdd on the market. If you are new to ssd's, the v100/100+ are great starter ssd's since they are cheap and will seem fast to you.

Graphics Card
Just like Stimwalt, 6950 is a great choice, but you can find them cheaper than 265 on sale. They have been seen to be around 200-230,b but here's a link to a 6950 w/ deus ex for 250AR right now:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.731480

Alternatively, you can look at the nvidia 560ti gtx for around $220 that rocks pretty good. You can find them around the 175-200 with a few games on sale. I'd choose the nvidia if you need CUDA and the 560 is actually a very cool and efficient on power compared to every other nvidia card and quite a few amd cards as well.

Sound Card
Its up to you if you really care about being an audiophile since onboard sound today does a decent job, but for $50 its not a complete waste of money. Personally, I'd say initially try the onboard sound and if you find that you really want a dedicated sound card for a better surround sound experience, then grab it.

Power Supply
Personally, the 700-800w range gives you a lot of great manufacturers to choose from now days and is the sweet spot for price and performance compared to the niche market of 850 and above, which are almost double the cost of 750's. But in regards to the antec HCG 750 price, you can get an 850 or even a 950 on sale. The 700w OCZ modular psu is $60AR, but can be found on sale for $45 or so. Highly recommend as its one of the best in class 700w, beating antec and corsair.

But if you plan on Crossfiring/SLI, you'd probably want a little more headroom than a 700 or 750, I'd look at the 850's, specially if you plan on OC. OCZ makes an awesome 850 which is 140 right now, but have been seen for about 100-110 on sale. Its 80 plus gold, which is more efficient than Antec's HCG line up. Although antec's 900w HCG normal price of 130 is def a good deal. Cooler master makes some decent psu in this power range and come at attractive prices, both on and off sales.

And yes, modular is awesome. If you got the money for that feature, its crazy not to get it specially since most performance, high wattage psu's come standard with them now days.

Case
The corsair 400r is a cool mid tower case and comes at a great price and its actually $99.99AR shipped on newegg right now. Alternatively, I'd recommend the Cooler Master HAF 922 case since its in the same price range ($89 shipped on newegg for the red one). There's a few other cases as well that I would look at, but those two would be the top two first.

9/14/2011 12:15:57 PM

Quote :

"Did you 2410 looked pretty spot on with the colors out of the box? My 2410 had a strong reddish tint when i got it and still does unless i load a custom calibration profile. Like all the white space would be slightly pink as compared to my other monitor (ST2410). Also, after calibration, i do not see THAT much of a dynamic range or color reproduction difference between the TN and the IPS panel. Yes, there are some additional shades of white that are seen on the U and not on the ST, and the viewing angles are better (which would have metteed if i moved around my computer) but overall I am dissapoint."

I do notice the reddish tint. My older 2408 has that too. I don't know. I'm never satisfied with the whites on any monitor. I don't think the Dells are that bad. Better than most other monitors I've seen. I think it's all relative to what's next to it.

Compared to the Acer the colors are much better. Even on the older 2408. Much more dynamic range. That's the only TN panel I have though so I can't compare it to anything else. I wasn't expecting great colors from the Acer though. It's decent though.

9/14/2011 12:17:54 PM

I calibrate every monitor in my house, even the TV when they are hooked up to my pc. I just wish I could use my calibrator straight on the TV, but most of my video viewing tends to fall on my spare 24" or the TV when hooked up the PC anyhow.

9/14/2011 12:22:47 PM

Quote :

"I do notice the reddish tint. My older 2408 has that too. I don't know. I'm never satisfied with the whites on any monitor. I don't think the Dells are that bad. Better than most other monitors I've seen. I think it's all relative to what's next to it. "

well i'm comparing it to a cheaper Dell TN panel next to it which worked fine right out of the box (i have since decreased the brightness to 120 cd), and it appears the that Ultrasharp was not worth the extra cash although the swivel mount is nice for occasional portrait-orientation work

9/14/2011 12:41:18 PM

I can't live without the swivel! This is why I hate every mac monitor, cept their crt's, which had the swivel... and when mac didn't have a stupid cult.

9/14/2011 12:46:38 PM

JBaz has some good recommendations too. Just keep in mind that I'm always going to push your tech a little past the conservative recommendations, so buyers beware. If you give me a 1500 limit, I'll get very close, and throw in a few bells and whistles too. It's relative for some components, and for other components, there is simply a better choice. It's always a great idea to shop as smart as you can, so find the happy medium for the components in your rig, and start building.

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 1:55 PM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 1:46:03 PM

It's always good to have more than one recommendation. I lean to best bang for the buck, but if you have a budget and want to squeeze every last penny out of the budget, then go for a couple more bell's & whistle's... entirely up to the builder.

I'd like to throw another topic out there... what's the best option for upgrading GPU for Battlefield 3?

I have an older 9800 GX2 and my guess based on some of the Alpha testing is that I'd get ~38 FPS on 1920x1200 with high detail settings (which I'm kind of doubting)... my budget is about $300 I'm thinking.

a) Wait until October 10/25 when it's released to see if any new cards come out?
b) Dual-560's (can't afford dual-560-Ti)
c) Dual-6850's (clocked to 6870)
d) 6950 (unlocked to 6970) and wait until I can afford another
e) Sell my soul so I can afford a 580 (I can get for $399)

I'm thinking Nvidia just for the CUDA & PhysX... thoughts on that with regards to BF3 specifically?

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 2:37 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2011 2:13:52 PM

*Stimwalt Giving a Prospero-like Answer D

MSI R6950 Twin Frozr III PE/OC Radeon HD 6950 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity:
$299.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127575

Unlock Guide:

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_r6950_twin_froz_iii_power_edition_unlocking,1.html



*Stimwalt's Enthusiast Answer E

MSI N580GTX Twin Frozr II/OC Graphics adapter - 1.5 GB - GDDR5 SDRAM
$465

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=twin+frozr+ii+580&gs_upl=15371l15371l1l15496l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&biw=1920&bih=951&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14397246143281263943&sa=X&ei=GPVwToOhFqPv0gGDz7ydCg&ved=0CC0Q8wIwAg



[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 2:42 PM. Reason : -]

9/14/2011 2:37:27 PM

yes, that's exactly what i was referring to

and i have a deal for a 580 for $399

[Edited on September 14, 2011 at 2:45 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2011 2:44:07 PM