too

9/20/2005 7:58:55 PM

diesel + batteries bitches.

After reading up on the new Prius, I fully admit hybrids have come a LONG way for commuter vehicles. Gargs, as usual you are arguing a complete pointless point. I conceded that braking isnt the only or best way to charge the batteries. That's not even what I'm fucking talking about you dipshit.

I'll concede defeat on this matter, cause there ain't no arguing with 90mpg real world.

My only real puzzlement is why the fuck aren't they doing this with diesels, as they are MUCH better suited to the role that the lil 3 cylinder petrol is in, in the prius. At least that's what the conclusion that was drawn after a discussion with a couple of much-more-knowledgable-than-I-am car buddies tonight.

9/20/2005 10:07:27 PM

And thanks to semtex151 for giving me pertinent info along with some laymen explanations.

9/20/2005 10:08:31 PM

hybrids are boring, at least until gas doesnt hit $10/gallon



[Edited on September 20, 2005 at 10:23 PM. Reason : ff]

9/20/2005 10:23:10 PM

Quote :

"My only real puzzlement is why the fuck aren't they doing this with diesels"

Hippies don't like to share pumps with truckers.

9/20/2005 10:37:32 PM

diesel is dirty

9/20/2005 11:08:44 PM

So are hippies

9/20/2005 11:32:04 PM

Quote :

"My only real puzzlement is why the fuck aren't they doing this with diesels"

because it is still not possible to start and stop diesel engines randomly and at short notice.

And I was never even talking about ONLY charging. You were wrong on even the basic concept of a "hybrid car".

9/20/2005 11:37:20 PM

^wtf are you smoking?

cut the fuel and it turns off. how is that difficult?

9/21/2005 1:59:53 AM

Diesel engines are more expensive, for one.

Also, diesel engines in light passenger cars cannot afford the same level of operational silence as that is afforded by petrol versions - IMO.

But yea, I haven't read yet, but my guess is that diesel engines still haven't evolved to the extent that they could be started at a moment's notice, especially in inclement weather.

[Edited on September 21, 2005 at 2:13 AM. Reason : .]

9/21/2005 2:04:00 AM

3rd Google match for Diesel Hybrids

As for autos, Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler each built prototype diesel hybrids a few years ago which got mileage in the 70-80 mpg range. But the automakers opted not to produce them, as the cars couldn't meet strict air pollution rules while running on the sulfur-laden American diesel.

9/21/2005 2:50:49 AM

^now THAT makes sense. Luckily the US will be low sulfur by 07

Gargs go suck a dick bitch.

[Edited on September 21, 2005 at 3:14 AM. Reason : .]

9/21/2005 3:13:59 AM

I think it was Mercedes I was reading about a couple days ago, created a diesel hybrid making 300hp that got less mpgs on the highway than a straight diesel.

9/21/2005 8:46:14 AM

The only downside with hybrid diesels compared to a hybrid ICE is the improvement in mileage is less significant. This is due to their already impressive fuel economy and the low end torque present in diesels. It just means it would take longer to make your money back off of the investment of hybridizing a diesel. I'd be interested in one though...as long as VW didn't make it. As for the noise issue, you wouldn't notice the added diesel noise over the road noise in a car optimized from mileage. The low rolling resistance tires on a hybrid make them fairly noisy rides. I had to add a few layers of B-Quiet Ultimate and some dynaliner on every surface in my car just to keep my sanity on the highway.

9/21/2005 8:57:36 AM

Quote :

" Gargs go suck a dick bitch."

huh?


did you suck enough already?

9/21/2005 9:39:19 AM

Quote :

"I'd be interested in one though...as long as VW didn't make it"

because in the 25 years they've been putting diesels in passenger cars, they've never gotten it right...

9/21/2005 9:50:06 AM

Quote :

"because in the 25 years they've been putting diesels in passenger cars, they've never gotten it right..."

I've already said I just don't think VW makes a reliable car. Its great they've been making diesels that long. Its just the recent VW's I've had experience with have had more than their fair share of problems.

9/21/2005 10:07:19 AM

a vw diesel isnt reliable? for these things, 100k is just broken in.

9/21/2005 10:14:30 AM

haha who cares what he thinks? He drives an insight! Can that scream gay any louder? Don't you have to get castrated before you drive one of those?

9/21/2005 11:21:21 AM

in addition to the fact that i believe adding a lot of weight (sound deadening) conflicts w/ the goal of the vehicle

9/21/2005 11:28:59 AM

Just my observations on recent VW's, maybe they're great cars, the ones I've been exposed to haven't been and I think consumer reports agrees. I'm glad you enjoy yours hope it treats you well, but I wouldn't buy one. Eh, I think think the insight is a pretty advanced little car, doesn't make me gay just means I have different priorities than you.

9/21/2005 11:49:35 AM

Hope to god you don't get in an accident with anything more than motorcycle or you will be crushed.

9/21/2005 11:50:38 AM

^^You are mixing the VW petrols with the VW Diesels.

The petrol vw's have been pretty horrid the past few years, but the diesel lines have all been rock solid still. Just happens consumer reports apparently doesnt give a shit about diesels to rate them.

9/21/2005 1:39:03 PM

i have an 03 "petrol" vw. havent had a single problem with it except the rear washer nozzle was clogged up when i got it.

and someone said something about EMS and rescue squads in certain areas refusing to go near hybrids for risk of electrocution... i think this is justified.


[Edited on September 21, 2005 at 2:04 PM. Reason : -]

9/21/2005 2:01:51 PM

My experiences have been with a '01 Jetta TDI and an '01 Golf Petrol, both had MAF sensors fail, both have had the power windows fail, the TDI has had its glow plugs replaced twice, the golf's temperature sensor failed, and there has also been a host of interior lighting shorts. Its great yours hasn't given problems, but as a car manufacture their consumer reports reliability rating isn't that great.

And yeah, there's been some media fear mongering about electrocution from hybrid vehicles, but I think the danger is minimal. Hell, just attach a volt meter to the body or ground out the frame before you go at it with saw. Take the chances of getting in a really bad accident and on top of that the chances that well protected cables are severed in such a way that the batteries didn't ground out, not really that common of an occurance. I'm not going to refuse to buy a car for fear that a first responder may not want to cut me out of it as I've never had to be cut out of a car.

9/21/2005 3:14:14 PM

just about everything you mentioned are known problems for the '00 and '01 and the dealership will fix under warranty (windows, maf, but not the $5 temp sensor). but im not going to try to convince you to buy one. i would never buy a saturn. some ppl love them. i drove one a few times and found it to be boring. kind of the same thing, i guess

as far as rescuers and hybrids are concerned, having someone be reluctant to pull you from a car (what if it's on fire? what if you're bleeding?) isnt something that really holds much weight until (if) the situation actually arises.

9/21/2005 4:18:46 PM

The situation just isn't likely enough for me to worry about. And I think if the media hadn't run "you should fear this" stories about hybrids it wouldn't even cause a hesistation in rescue workers. Hybrids are pretty common now; tell me how many rescue workers have died or even suffered mild shocks saving people from hybrid wrecks? I haven't run across any, but maybe I'm not looking in the right news sources. I think gas tanks and un-deployed air bags are a greater risk to rescue workers than my cars IMA system.

9/21/2005 5:04:42 PM

a friend of mine (ford technician) was introduced to the escape hybrid and it was pounded in his head to not touch the hot wire.

it pretty much instantly cooked a hotdog when touched to it.

[Edited on September 21, 2005 at 5:30 PM. Reason : -]

9/21/2005 5:30:07 PM

so like 4 5 minutes fixes which are free makes a car unreliable? WOW. I know lots of cars that need lil things like that.

9/21/2005 5:45:13 PM

Quote :

"Also, diesel engines in light passenger cars cannot afford the same level of operational silence as that is afforded by petrol versions - IMO."

New diesels are quiet.

9/21/2005 6:04:43 PM

Yeah, with the car running the Bright Orange heavily insulated cables have sufficient voltage and current capacity to kill you. I'm not saying the batteries can't be lethal I'm just saying you have to really work at doing something stupid to kill yourself with them.

MAF sensor and glow plugs I'll give you as quick but expensive fixes (if not covered by warranty ), but the gearing in the power windows eating itself and the windows dropping to the bottom of the channels can't be fixed in five minutes. And I'd just as soon not have to take my car to a dealer for warranty repair work that often. Look I really don't care if you are dying to own a VW or do own one and love it. I'm just saying from what I've dealt with and what consumer reports has on them I'm not interested in owning one.

9/21/2005 6:20:34 PM

consumer reports is bullshit

and what about batteries leaking potential corrosive substances (in the event of an accident)

9/21/2005 6:45:09 PM

so why have the engine come on and off... a diesel can idle for weeks just as happy as a clam, do like trains and big dump trucks idle when the power is need rev that sucker up... when i was a baby on constuction jobs my dad would just idle a truck and keep the AC so to this day the gentle shake of a diesel idling puts my butt to sleep... luckily i don't idle mine much

9/21/2005 8:51:21 PM

oh, and VW makes a hell of a car, you might have had some bad luck but in the long run they are the ultimate economy car

9/21/2005 8:52:09 PM

For anyone arguing against diesels, google Honda 2.2L diesel and STFU.
Buddy of mine at work (Romanian dude) just returned back to work from Germany and the new Honda diesel has hit there.

As quiet as a gas, as fun as a gas, as efficient as a diesel.

I drive a TDI, just had a turbo sensor die this week. Cost about $150 to get fixed. With 75K miles on it, its worth it. The money I save on fuel is crazy.

9/21/2005 9:24:53 PM

My girlfriend has a lexus 400h that shit is off the hook.

9/21/2005 10:41:35 PM

bmw 330d is the shit

9/22/2005 12:30:27 AM

Quote :

"what about batteries leaking potential corrosive substances (in the event of an accident) "

The batteries are industrial D cell's spot welded into sticks, on top of their normal casing they are heat shrinked, then placed in a box which is contained by a larger box which holds the control modules. Its possibly a problem, but again unlikely and not that different than driving around with a mag lite stored in a conventional car.


Don't think anyone is arguing against diesels, I'm just saying I think the maintance cost of hybrids is being overblown and that I think they are worth the milage gain.

9/22/2005 7:41:23 AM

i think their overpriced personally... why buy a expensive honda when you can get a VW for less and the same mileage and less maintenance?

9/22/2005 8:18:52 PM

and you dont have to replase some expen$$ive batteries

9/23/2005 12:11:33 AM

i forgot how cheap VW's were

9/23/2005 12:28:28 AM

I'd love to get a VW, but I do hear a lot about how their quality has slipped in the past 5-10 years.

And I'd love to get a Prius, but I'll have to wait until my name comes up on the wait list.

10/2/2005 1:55:19 PM

^ i honestly believe the diesels are rock solid.

10/2/2005 2:04:03 PM