http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/4230954.html

Quote :

"Vet: "Bodies Melted Away Before Us." Italian Satellite TV to Broadcast Evidence of US Use of Chemical Weapons on Civilians Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:08:19 AM PDT Italian media going full-bore on the Bush Administration. After its revelations on the subterfuge behind the Nigergate forgeries, documentary evidence of the use by US troops of phosphorus and a new formulaton of napalm [MK77] on the Sunni civilian population will be broadcast tomorrow on international satellite TV. Global coverage of the atrocity, folks. A news program on Italian satellite TV, RAI News 24, has substantiated the claim that the US military has been exploiting the dual use of white phosporus. In its siege of Fallujah, the chemical was used on the civilian populace. The story is in today's Repubblica. The Bush Adminstration and the DoD are about to be shamed before the eyes of the world."

Here is the video of the program (translated into English):

Fallujah - The Hidden Massacre: Veteran admits: Bodies melted away before us. Shocking revelation RAI News 24.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm

11/8/2005 9:08:24 AM

good ol' Willie Pete.

my buddy called in 155mm WP like 50m from his own position one time. i think it was in Fallujah.

___________________________________

ok, now i scanned over the article. WP is not a chemical weapon. it's used to obscure things with smoke, mark things with smoke (for close air support, etc), set things on fire, illuminate things, etc.
furthermore, there's no way we were calling in WP or anything else for the purpose of killing civilians. could someone have screwed up and accidentally killed some civilians? oh hell yeah...we screw up and accidentally kill our own forces every now and then.

you wanna know a secret? the business of killing people is fucking ugly. sometimes people die in nasty ways. that's how war works. we don't do anything specifically because it's fucked up (toe popper mines, for example, or ANY non-command detonated mines that don't time out and self destruct, for that matter). however, not every enemy is fortunate enough to die from a bullet to the head or an explosion that kills them instantly. there's always the exception of a handful of shitbags like in Abu Ghairab prison (who are generally dealt with when they're found out), but doctrinally, we err on the conservative side, following international treaties, and sometimes not even doing things that we legally could.

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 9:25 AM. Reason : asdf]

11/8/2005 9:12:13 AM

Quote :

"In soldier slang they call it Willy Pete. The technical name is white phosphorus. In theory its purpose is to illumine enemy positions in the dark. In practice, it was used as a chemical weapon in the rebel stronghold of Fallujah. And it was used not only against enemy combatants and guerrillas, but again innocent civilians. The Americans are responsible for a massacre using unconventional weapons, the identical charge for which Saddam Hussein stands accused. An investigation by RAI News 24, the all-news Italian satellite television channel, has pulled the veil from one of the most carefully concealed mysteries from the front in the entire US military campaign in Iraq. http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/4230954.html "

11/8/2005 9:14:09 AM

i say again, WP is not "unconventional weapons", and i'd like to see proof of noncombatants being targeted.

11/8/2005 9:26:59 AM

someone needs a good ol' shot of nerve gas and shut the fuck up

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 9:41 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2005 9:41:06 AM

Ok, to discredit this whole thing... LOOK AT THE LINK!

IT'S A FUCKING LIVEJOURNAL LINK

STFU AND GTFO

Is this where you get your sources? Man... I can post ANYTHING on livejournal. Pathetic.

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 9:44 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2005 9:43:32 AM

we all need to drink a glass of DiHydrogen Monoxide and chill out

OMG, WHAT AM I THINKING, THAT'S A CHEMICAL WEAPON

11/8/2005 9:45:14 AM

THAT CHEMICAL IS USED IN ALMOST EVERY PESTICIDE!!!1! OMG!

11/8/2005 9:48:45 AM

is it true that bullets are made out of Lead

OUT OF LEAD

OH MY GOD, CHEMICAL WEAPONS

11/8/2005 9:50:55 AM

http://www.dhmo.org/truth/Dihydrogen-Monoxide.html
The Truth about DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE

Quote :

" What are the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide? Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death. Quantities of dihydrogen monoxide have been found in almost every stream, lake, and reservoir in America today. But the pollution is global, and the contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice. In the midwest alone DHMO has caused millions of dollars of property damage."

the government is using this chemical weapon to control people

11/8/2005 9:51:15 AM

US ARMY GUILTY OF LEAD POISONING IRAQIS IN THE DOME PIECE

11/8/2005 9:51:35 AM

i needed to do a double take to make sure that wasn't salisburyboy

11/8/2005 9:52:02 AM

let's see.

salisburyboy with his usual propaganda-type conspiracy livejournal bullshit

or

theDuke866 with actual real experience and information in this matter.

o the decisions that plague me right now.

11/8/2005 9:56:10 AM

Quote :

"Ok, to discredit this whole thing... LOOK AT THE LINK!"

Here's another link...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece

Oh, and did you even notice that I included a link to the VIDEO PROGRAM ITSELF. You conveniently did not mention that.

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:04 AM. Reason : 1]

11/8/2005 10:02:05 AM

so...

it's just another link about the same story

we get it, you don't like the use of firestarting materials

WHY DON'T YOU FRAME IT LIKE THAT?

11/8/2005 10:03:56 AM

salisburyboy you realize the crime they are claiming is the use of the mk77 and not the white phosphorus

11/8/2005 10:06:31 AM

Quote :

"so... it's just another link about the same story "

Yeah....it's another link on the same story...FROM A "MAINSTREAM" SOURCE (which some of you seem to place so much value in).

That supports the fact that the story is legitimate. Livejournal isn't just "making the whole thing up" as some of you would like to believe.

11/8/2005 10:08:42 AM

im curious why you didnt post that instead of the lj link from the beginning
i guess you were in such a rush that you were about to piss your pants so you didnt have the time

11/8/2005 10:10:14 AM

maybe so I could see the resident morons around here rant about how the source is not legitimate and make fools of themselves by suggesting that the story is not legitimate

11/8/2005 10:11:54 AM

so im watching that video and its not the smoking gun you want it to be

11/8/2005 10:13:28 AM

Oh, really. Why not?

11/8/2005 10:14:08 AM

i mean it shows people that are hurt, but thats just an unfortunate effect of war

ok they just pointed to lividity as a sign of torture. um...

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:17 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2005 10:15:21 AM

Quote :

"Ever since the assault, which went unreported by any Western journalists,"

no shit, because it isn't news that we burn up our enemies in combat.

and if they were indeed gassing anyone, i'm sure it was just CS gas or something (tear gas/riot control gas), which is perfectly legal. i've been CS gassed like a half dozen times...it's not the end of the world.

Quote :

" Livejournal isn't just "making the whole thing up" as some of you would like to believe."

No, in this case, the problem isn't the fact that your source can't be trusted (which is, as usual, true). I have no doubt that the story is true, minus the targetting civilians part. The reason that real news sources haven't reported it isn't because your tin-foil-hat crowd is better at getting down to the truth...it's because it isn't even news, and it's not illegal. Firing WP is perfectly normal.

__________________________________________________________________

interesting war story that's only slightly related...

i heard a Marine Colonel talking one time about his experience flying CH-46s in the 1991 Gulf War. the 46 is a transport helo, but it does have a couple of .50 cals when flying in combat (gunners in the back). He and another 46 pilot saw a couple of Iraqi troop carriers, and said over the radio that they were gonna go down and have the side gunners take them out.

Someone else came back over the radio and said "Negative, we already have Cobras on the way for them."

Well, the snakes come up and each shoot a Hellfire missile right up the ass end of the trucks, then leave. Then the other 46 pilot comes over the radio and says "I've, uhh, got a couple of warning lights on. We need to land and find out what's wrong." the Colonel (i don't know what he was at the time, but whatever) replies "Yeah, me too! Let's sit 'em down right over there!"

So they land next to the smoldering troop carriers, hop out, and go over to have a look. He said that when they looked in the back, all they found was a layer of pink and charred goo, with an occassion femur or something sticking out.

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:23 AM. Reason : asdfasdf]

11/8/2005 10:19:08 AM

http://www.rense.com/general68/incendiarychem.htm

Quote :

"Incendiary Chem Weapons Being Used in Iraq By Wayne Madsen 11-8-5 U.S. used white phosphorous chemical weapons in Iraq. The editor has seen gruesome evidence gathered by the Italian RAI TV network documenting America's use of deadly and horrific white phosphorous weapons, including grenades, mortars, and artillery shells, on civilians in Iraq. Weaponized white phosphorous (WP), also called "Willy Peter," literally melts skin upon contact. However, the WP munitions used in Iraq have apparently been modified so that most of a targets' clothing is not burned but skin and bones are horribly melted. The results are fully clothed macabre corpses -- the intention of which is to frighten civilians and insurgents alike as an extreme form of psychological warfare operations (psyops). The editor also saw evidence that women and children were victims of WP weapons. Age and gender could be readily determined based on the clothing worn by the victims. White phosphorous was one of the chemical weapons the Bush administration claimed was in the possession of Saddam Hussein's military."

11/8/2005 10:20:29 AM

white phosphorus isnt illegal
you are going afer the wrong angle

11/8/2005 10:23:09 AM

Quote :

"However, the WP munitions used in Iraq have apparently been modified so that most of a targets' clothing is not burned but skin and bones are horribly melted."

ummmm. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but if it is "melting skin" as in "its really fucking hot," then how the fuck is it NOT going to burn clothing?

11/8/2005 10:23:55 AM

reacts with the skin
gotta throw wet mud on it



[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:27 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2005 10:25:26 AM

FLASHBACK:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/10/MNG6P9P3ER1.DTL

Quote :

"U.S. drives into heart of Fallujah Wednesday, November 10, 2004 San Francisco Chronicle [...] Some artillery guns fired white phosphorous rounds that create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water. Insurgents reported being attacked with a substance that melted their skin, a reaction consistent with white phosphorous burns. Kamal Hadeethi, a physician at a regional hospital, said, "The corpses of the mujahedeen which we received were burned, and some corpses were melted." "

OMG! SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE REPORTED IT!!1

LIVEJOURNAL DIDN'T JUST MAKE IT ALL UP!111



[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:28 AM. Reason : 1]

11/8/2005 10:27:49 AM

OK, I just read through the article on the Independent site, and it is abhorrent what the US soldiers are doing.

Call it chemical weapons, call it shit, using such weapons (some in breach of signed treaties) in densely populated areas is a crime against humanity.

You CANNOT say we didn't intend to kill civilians. When you do this (see below), civilians WILL DIE in GREAT numbers, so whether you intended or not is moot. Just like with cluster bombs and land mines, all of which kill indiscriminately, and civilians have died in the tens of thousands because of them.

Quote :

"But now new information has surfaced, including hideous photographs and videos and interviews with American soldiers who took part in the Fallujah attack, which provides graphic proof that phosphorus shells were widely deployed in the city as a weapon. In a documentary to be broadcast by RAI, the Italian state broadcaster, this morning, a former American soldier who fought at Fallujah says: "I heard the order to pay attention because they were going to use white phosphorus on Fallujah. In military jargon it's known as Willy Pete. "Phosphorus burns bodies, in fact it melts the flesh all the way down to the bone ... I saw the burned bodies of women and children. Phosphorus explodes and forms a cloud. Anyone within a radius of 150 metres is done for.""

So now does it really matter if you intended or not to kill civilians? See, that's the thing with Americans, they drop cluster bombs, plant land mines, drop phosphorus bombs, ALL IN CIVILIAN areas, and that has resulted in the death of tens of thousands of civilians, but then they go on and say they "take care" not to harm civilians

There are photographs on:

Quote :

"Photographs on the website of RaiTG24, the broadcaster's 24-hours news channel, http://www.rainews24.it, show exactly what the former soldier means. Provided by the Studies Centre of Human Rights in Fallujah, dozens of high-quality, colour close-ups show bodies of Fallujah residents, some still in their beds, whose clothes remain largely intact but whose skin has been dissolved or caramelised or turned the consistency of leather by the shells."

But I don't know Italian, so I couldn't locate them. Maybe someone else can.

Furthermore:

Quote :

"The documentary, entitled Fallujah: the Hidden Massacre, also provides what it claims is clinching evidence that incendiary bombs known as Mark 77, a new, improved form of napalm, was used in the attack on Fallujah, in breach of the UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons of 1980, which only allows its use against military targets."

If this was used, we have another war crime and crime against humanity here.

I am glad all you Bible-thumping bastards are pleased.

And guess what people, when you criticize someone for their thread because of who they are, you make yourself look like ignorant Americans, which sadly is the reason, why Americans support this war.

LOOK AT THE SCROLL

NOT THE MESSENGER

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:34 AM. Reason : ]

11/8/2005 10:29:18 AM

Quote :

"You CANNOT say we didn't intend to kill humans."

GOOD THING NOBODDY IS

and some of the corpses (even in the video he posted) were clearly identified as insurgents

11/8/2005 10:31:35 AM

sorry that was supposed to read civilians.

11/8/2005 10:32:45 AM

Quote :

"some of the corpses (even in the video he posted) were clearly identified as insurgents "

Yeah, and some of the others killed by white phosphorus were civilians.

11/8/2005 10:34:11 AM

Quote :

"That supports the fact that the story is legitimate. Livejournal isn't just "making the whole thing up" as some of you would like to believe."

No, I just ignore any moron who wants to debate in the Soap Box that starts his thread with a link to livejournal.

That's when I stop reading and when you lose credibility.

But soap box cred is relative. Salisburyboy is about akin to pryderi... not sure which one is worse.

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2005 10:34:17 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, and some of the others killed by white phosphorus were civilians."

civilians die in wars
its unfortunate but thats how it is
war isnt pleasant
it never has been
there have always been unfortunate innocent victims

11/8/2005 10:36:48 AM

Quote :

"No, I just ignore any moron who wants to debate in the Soap Box that starts his thread with a link to livejournal. That's when I stop reading and when you lose credibility."

You are not doing a very good job at:

ignoring
stopping reading

are you?

STFU, STOP READING, IGNORE, AND GTFO

11/8/2005 10:37:18 AM

Quote :

"No, I just ignore any moron who wants to debate in the Soap Box that starts his thread with a link to livejournal. That's when I stop reading and when you lose credibility. "

Even when livejournal's story is backed up by the Independent and the San Fransisco Chronicle? Well, you've got the problem....not livejournal.

You don't think I have credibility? Fine, then don't read my threads. Don't post in my threads. Some people can't be reached no matter how much evidence is presented to them. I can't do anything about that. I tried. As they say, you can show the horse to the water, but you can't make them drink.

Others, unlike you, have discernment. They can see when a story has merit. If the source isn't "mainstream", they don't automatically dismiss it. They can think for themselves. They aren't so naive as to think that all truth must come from "mainstream" sources and that if CNN and FOXNEWS hasn't talked about it, it couldn't have happened. They aren't so naive as to think that the U.S. government and military can do no wrong or that the "mainstream" media always tells the truth and the whole truth.


[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:50 AM. Reason : 1]

11/8/2005 10:44:29 AM

Quote :

"reacts with the skin gotta throw wet mud on it"

aight. I was under the impression that WP was like super duper hot, must be thinking of something else :/

Quote :

"LOOK AT THE SCROLL NOT THE MESSENGER"

we did. 1) the messenger was salisburyboy, a person known for making wild claims with no evidence and for making wild claims based on inaccurate assessments of the evidence. Its not ad hominem, since our source and our arguer are effectively one and the same. 2) His "scroll" was initially a fucking LJ blog entry. Hard to find much street cred from such a low source...

Quote :

"you make yourself look like ignorant Americans, which sadly is the reason, why Americans support this war."

Ironically enough, most americans DON'T support the war. remind me again who is the ignorant one?

btw, I'd consider falluja a "military target" any day of the week. When you have military assets using the population as camoflage, then you have no right to complain about civilians being harmed. We can generally say that the US troops are not seeking to harm civilians, but when the enemy hides among civilians and poses as them, then civilian casualties are inevitable. Maybe, instead of bashing the US troops, you should instead malign those cowards (of your own faith and ethnic group, might I add) who insist on putting civilians in harm's way as a matter of tactics. Nah, thats crazy talk.

Quote :

"Fine, then don't read my threads. Don't post in my threads. Some people can't be reached no matter how much evidence is presented to them."

yeah, kind of like you. (this is where you tell me that I am deceived by the evil media and the elite and the zionist illuminati)

11/8/2005 10:51:25 AM

BTW, these phosphorus shells, if you wouldn't call them chemical weapons, what would you call them?

They surely ain't projectiles with which you shoot people. (even though they might be fired as projectiles)

Those who brought up the fact that bullets are made of lead so they are chemical weapons, are fucking childish lunatics.

You have to look at the MODUS OPERANDI to classify the kind of weapon, not what it is made up. Everything is made of chemicals, fools.

Regardless, even if they are not classified as chemical weapons in some stupid US Army field book, it is moot, as I said in my previous post.

11/8/2005 10:51:36 AM

Quote :

"aaronburro: "the messenger was salisburyboy, a person known for making wild claims with no evidence "

Not "known." More like "alleged." That is a false perception put out by some on these boards.

Can you even give me one mesely example of when I made "wild claims with no evidence"?



[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:55 AM. Reason : 1]

11/8/2005 10:52:57 AM

isn't phosphorus used for illumination at night? I would have to say that if such is the case, then there is not much of an overt offensive use to WP, and thus using it offensively (IE, firing it directly at troops, and not using it for illumination) would be on the order of unacceptable.

Quote :

"Example? "

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_section.aspx?section=4

11/8/2005 10:54:21 AM

Quote :

"Maybe, instead of bashing the US troops, you should instead malign those cowards (of your own faith and ethnic group, might I add) who insist on putting civilians in harm's way as a matter of tactics. Nah, thats crazy talk."

I HAVE bashed them here before, and I will bash them again.

But, they are beyond bashing, because they are animals.

So what does the US Army do, stoops to below the level of animals, and becomes a murderous beast, killing civilians by:

blowing them up (land mines)

covering their bodies in shrapnel (cluster bombs)

melting them (phsophorus shells)

etc etc etc

BEASTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ANIMALS (when talking about evil)

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 10:58 AM. Reason : ]

11/8/2005 10:56:15 AM

So are you saying that EVERYTHING I've ever posted was a "wild claim with no evidence"? Probably not.

Can you even give me one example?

11/8/2005 10:56:23 AM

so OEPII, incendiaries are chemcial weapons because they are not necessarily hitting a target with a fired projectile?
is that what you are saying?

11/8/2005 10:57:59 AM

Quote :

"So what does the US Army do, stoops to the level of animals, and becomes a vicious demon, killing civilians by:"

what would you have them do? stand there and get shot? unless, of course, you want to resort to the even more irrational idea of a complete and immediate withdrawal, leaving iraq in utter chaos.

Quote :

"So are you saying that EVERYTHING I've ever posted was a "wild claim with no evidence"? Probably not. "

pretty much. I think you might have had one or two instances where you weren't as far fetched and bat-shit crazy as you normally are, but then again, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then...

Quote :

"Can you even give me one example?"

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_section.aspx?section=4

11/8/2005 10:58:57 AM

Quote :

""The corpses of the mujahedeen which we received were burned, and some corpses were melted.""

Well that's just a travesty, isn't it?

Quote :

"OMG! SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE REPORTED IT!!1 LIVEJOURNAL DIDN'T JUST MAKE IT ALL UP!111"

No shit. I would've told you that we use WP. It's not news. It's not a secret. It's normal.

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=362434

Quote :

"You CANNOT say we didn't intend to kill civilians. When you do this (see below), civilians WILL DIE in GREAT numbers, so whether you intended or not is moot."

Of course you can claim we don't intend to kill civilians, because we go out of our way not to. Will it happen sometimes? Of course. Like I said earlier, if we sometimes accidentally kill our own, of course sometimes we're gonna accidentally kill civilians. It sucks--REALLY BAD--but that's a fact of life. The Marines didn't decide to go into Iraq or take Fallujah. We were assigned to do it, and did it the best that we could. There's no way to do it without collateral damage--and we did a pretty good job of limiting it. We could've really torn shit up a lot more than we did...and I've seen personal video footage of the fighting, and personally talked to people who were there (both instructors relaying their experience and close personal friends).

Quote :

"Just like with cluster bombs and land mines, all of which kill indiscriminately, and civilians have died in the tens of thousands because of them."

first of all, by that logic, everything weapon besides well-aimed rifle and pistol (and MAYBE arguably machine gun) shots kills indiscriminately in an urban environment. It's a shitty place to fight, and you just have to do the best you can.

i have no more knowledge (yet) of cluster bombs than what anyone can read on the internet, and haven't really read much about them, but i don't see what the problem with them is. no different than any other bomb, for the purposes of this argument, as far as i know. in fact, i'd wager that since cluster bombs are basically an anti-personnel/soft target weapon, they might even be good in some urban scenarios because they probably wouldn't destroy buildings and kill unintended victims in those buildings. that's just me guessing, though.

Mines are not the monster you think. Like i said before, antipersonnel mines either have to be command-detonated (Claymore, for example) or self-destructing (designed to last for a specified amount of time...long enough to employ them in a temporary defensive position, for example). This includes air-scatterable mines (actually, air-scatterable mines pretty much ARE the non-commanded detonated antipersonnel mines).

you could probably step on most antitank mines without setting them off. ours are designed to need like 300 lbs of force applied to trigger them, if i remember correctly...and i doubt we were burying them around the streets of Fallujah, anyway (and we keep track of where we put them, too).

Quote :

"If this was used, we have another war crime and crime against humanity here."

No, if it was used against a nonmilitary target, then we have a breach of the treaty.

11/8/2005 10:59:00 AM

Yes.

HOW do they kill?

11/8/2005 10:59:27 AM

so im driving around with chemical weapons in my car?

and ps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention#Controlled_Substances

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 11:05 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2005 11:02:00 AM

Quote :

" I was under the impression that WP was like super duper hot, must be thinking of something else :/"

it's hot, too.

Quote :

" I'd consider falluja a "military target" any day of the week. When you have military assets using the population as camoflage, then you have no right to complain about civilians being harmed."

an entire city the size of Fallujah is not a military target, and your second statement is TOTALLY wrong.

Quote :

"Regardless, even if they are not classified as chemical weapons in some stupid US Army field book, it is moot,"

they aren't classified as chemical weapons under international law, and they aren't. they burn shit up and make lots of smoke and light. most weapons of war are pretty fucking horrible. that's how it works.

Quote :

"isn't phosphorus used for illumination at night?"

like i said earlier, it's used for illum, smoke marking, smoke obscuration, and burning shit up.


Look, killing is killing, and dead is dead. Some methods are more distasteful than others, but neither our doctrine or international law makes anything more than a minimal distinction there. Some are more precise than others. A shot from a sniper is much more surgical in nature than an F-18 pilot hitting the pickle button with a bunch of Mk82s. However, we can't just send a quarter million snipers into combat every time the shit hits the fan. That would be nice, but that's not realistic. Basically, we just outlaw the MOST indiscriminate and lingering of weapons--chem and bio, and take steps to minimalize unwanted impact of other weapons, either in employment doctrine or weapon design (as in the aforementioned land mines).

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 11:11 AM. Reason : asdfasd]

11/8/2005 11:05:54 AM

Quote :

"Some people can't be reached no matter how much evidence is presented to them. I can't do anything about that. I tried. As they say, you can show the horse to the water, but you can't make them drink."

This is TDub, I'm not sure if there has ever been a person in my 4 years of looking at this site that has ever changed their mind on anything remotely dealing with politics. It's futile. And I'm not clicking on a livejournal link unless it's an opinion column. If you claim that something is newsworthy and has merrit and is backed up by credible sources, LINK TO THOSE. I'm not reading some shithead with a keyboard's supposed findings.

Quote :

"That's when I stop reading and when you lose credibility."

I meant that's when I stop reading your post, not stop reading the thread. No sense in reading unfounded bullshit.

11/8/2005 11:07:19 AM

page 2

[Edited on November 8, 2005 at 11:13 AM. Reason : ]

11/8/2005 11:10:18 AM