3 of my classes this semester are a class on Shakespeare, astronomy, and an intro history class-western civ since 1400.

My Shakespeare professor went over the anti-stratfordian movement (a group that claims that Shakespeare didn’t write any of the works attributed to him), and gave some fairly solid evidence for why Shakespeare did write at least most of the stuff. For example some of the people the anti-stratfordians list as possible actual writers of Shakespeare stuff have been dated to times that would have made that impossible, or many references to Ovid’s works but not really with Aristotle which fits with his education in a time when Latin was pushed more in school (but his lack of a college education shows too).

My astronomy professor went over Christopher Columbus and how his intent was to find a trade route to the east and that he believed that this would be easy b/c he was using Aristotle’s model for the size of the world instead of Eratosthenes(which was a lot closer to correct). My astronomy professor pointed out several reasons why even the ancients knew the world was round (such as ships not only get smaller in view as the head out, but they also disappear from the bottom up) and that most relevant Europeans knew the world was round.

My history professor has said there was “no way Shakespeare could haven’t written that stuff” without much further explanation. He said Columbus set out to prove the world wasn’t flat since many people at the time believed it to be so. He also said that he believes in ghosts and does ceremonial reburials to put ends to haunting. I also think he might be an eastern orthodox person based on his comments about how the church is closer to correct, closer to the original, and passed around pictures from a local Greek orthodox church.

Although the religious stuff was kind of beside the point, I’m getting very conflicting truths from my history class than from the rest of my classes. For grading purposes I will of course learn the truth the way each teacher presents it… but this history class has struck me as the most inconsistent class I’ve had with my others during undergrad.

Should professors from different departments work together to reconcile their different beliefs, or should it be left entirely up to the student? I think it would at least be nice to attend some kind of debate between such professors and at least let students make up their minds from better structured arguments.

2/10/2006 11:09:25 AM

sounds like your history prof has no place teaching at all

2/10/2006 11:11:53 AM

well alot more people are required to take an intro level history class than are required to take a shakespeare class. the class is mostly freshman who all agree with him about shakespeare now and have it forever committed to their notebooks.

2/10/2006 12:13:51 PM

Quote :

"My astronomy professor pointed out several reasons why even the ancients knew the world was round (such as ships not only get smaller in view as the head out, but they also disappear from the bottom up) and that most relevant Europeans knew the world was round."

though it doesn't change whether most europeans knew the world was round, the ancients knew ALOT of shit that even we don't know now. the library of alexandria was burned down by christians, setting us back 2,000 years by some estimates.

that said, your history professor is wrong about shakespeare. There is tons of possibility that shakespeare didn't write the works attributed to him. It's not certain either way, but it's not at all a black and white "he did" or "he didn't" situation.

2/10/2006 12:16:37 PM

Quote :

"I’m getting very conflicting truths from my history class than from the rest of my classes."

Truths don't conflict. You're getting conflicting opinions, and the ones from the history prof seem pretty stupid.

2/10/2006 12:56:20 PM

Quote :

"the library of alexandria was burned down by christians, setting us back 2,000 years by some estimates."

Cheap shot; I don't know why you enjoy blaming everything on the Christians, implying that they are the bane of human knowledge and civilization. You know as well as I do that there's a lot of controversy as to who torched the Library of Alexandria, and that there's no conclusive evidence proving who actually burned it to the ground. Christians are just one of three suspects along with the Romans and the Muslims.

As for the topic at hand, I think it should be up to the student to figure out where they want to land on an issue. You'll never be able to get every professor to agree on a set of ideas and values nor should we attempt to do so. As long as the professors are speaking the truth to the best of their knowledge, I think it's good for the student to hear different arguments and draw and defend their own conclusions. Marketplace of ideas and all that jazz.

2/10/2006 2:13:18 PM

I’m not asking to be presented with one view from all fronts, but i would like the different view point holders to be aware of each other, and each professor present structured counter arguments to opposed views.

I guess that hope is more on an ideal level than a practical one. But its not like these professors vary in different directions from the middle ground of a spectrum, they are instead opposed binaries.

I could more easily handle a situation where for example one professor is saying 1000 thousand people died in a certain war, and another professor saying it was 2000, and each admitting a list of reasons for the war but stressing different ones. But this situation is more like one says the war happened, the other says it didn’t. That level of opposition doesn’t seem like it’s just a healthy presentation of different ideas, but that one of my professors is lying about what happened due to their own ignorance.

(the main point about the ancients knowing stuff wasn't that the ancients knew it so the moderns surely knew it too, although there are enough surviving texts that i might believe that, the point was that any seafarer, trader, or sailor would know the world isn't flat)

[Edited on February 10, 2006 at 2:33 PM. Reason : .]

2/10/2006 2:29:31 PM

^^ I had always heard that it was the Crusaders who burned it, and the crusaders, at least superficially, were doing the word of God.

2/10/2006 2:33:18 PM

Easter (specifically Russian) Orthodoxy is directly descended from Byzantium, FWIW

2/10/2006 4:07:57 PM

Quote :

"Cheap shot; I don't know why you enjoy blaming everything on the Christians, implying that they are the bane of human knowledge and civilization. You know as well as I do that there's a lot of controversy as to who torched the Library of Alexandria, and that there's no conclusive evidence proving who actually burned it to the ground. Christians are just one of three suspects along with the Romans and the Muslims."

^^ what he said. that's just what I learned in school.

2/10/2006 4:16:34 PM

it was a muslim coverup. we're on to them again so they're getting extra nasty.

2/10/2006 4:24:54 PM

generally i admire the scholarship of our history dept....

but this guy sounds a little too simple

2/10/2006 4:47:47 PM

you ignore the fact that artistotle was a philosopher who was ignored until the high middle ages and after that ignored until around the 1800s. Plato was the pimp during the time period you are speaking of.

2/10/2006 4:51:28 PM

The first graded assignment for this class is tomorrow, its a test. Its going to be rough. He is going to count for spelling, and he has a strong accent, and has never used the overhead or board for writing, only putting up pictures. I'd have no hope of spelling english words he says, but with all the italian, spanish, german and other ones... I'm doomed.

He also enumerates everything. Like the causes for a revolt. He wouldn't say there were people dissatisfied with their government. He would say
"One, Dissatisfaction
Two, Unhappiness
Three, Uncertainty
Four, Weakening government in light of dissatisfaction"

He also gave extra credit for people who could identify quotes. He had some random people through history, and he has a spiderman quote. He gave credit to anyone who thought the answer but didn't say it. For the next 5 mins or so people raised their hands and said "hey, I thought of it too, but also didn't want to say it aloud" and they got extra credit.

I mean, he seems like a nice guy that I can learn from, but the class feels like such a waste of time, and the stuff I learn in their while most of it will be correct, its suspect enough that I don't feel confident in the knowledge. I would never make a point in another class based off information I learned in this one.

He is also a grown man who has demonstrated that he signs in a high alto voice. I have a little trouble taking the class seriously. I mean he is way more knowledgeable than almost anyone I grew up with in Mayberry, but I'd like to hold a professor to a high standard than that. But I'm still going to be spending several more hour studying for it, I guess I owe anyone who works to become a professor that much respect atleast.

3/14/2006 10:33:56 PM

At least you don't drag the rest of the class along with you into an argument with the professor. Nothing's worse than having to stay late in class because some yahoo can't shut up.

3/14/2006 10:58:57 PM

I believe that he thinks students these days are just really bad spellers. But he doesn't use the board, overhead, or anything in written that could give people a chance to learn how to spell knew words. He only has pictures with slides everyday as he lectures. He’s one of those professors who stops the whole class to give angry looks to people in the back of the class who are whispering, and turns it into a long drawn out awkward silence, and then he tells them how emotionally painful it is to him to have people not caring enough about his class yada yada yada.

He gave out a nearly 10 page long spelling list. But the words are in random order, so there is no effective way to check a specific word without scanning through all the pages, which is really ineffective when you have some random foreign word in your notes every other sentence. He’s got lots of quirks, like he doesn’t use e-mail and you have to call his home phone number if you have any questions. But only at specific hours in the evening. And you can’t call during specific shows that he likes to watch. He builds up for like a week that he might have a death in the family and miss class, but if he can fit the funeral and class into the same day, he’ll still make the 3 hour or so drive to come to class. He also built up a chance of snow, giving everyone the phone number to call incase the campus is closed for about a week. He can be very dramatic and flamboyant sometimes. He also says things like “everyone knows that a stamp turned sideways is a secret message to say I love you, but do people know what stamps at other angles mean?” When ever he starts a sentence with “everyone knows” its almost never something I’ve heard of.

Still a mean professor is worse than an incompetent professor… so this is still one of my better classes since he’s a nice guy.

3/14/2006 11:12:43 PM

Quote :

"I will of course learn the truth the way each teacher presents it"

And who says college doesn't prepare you for life?

3/15/2006 12:10:35 AM

I plan to read the last few posts in this thread (I read the first few but not the next few--mostly cause i have to pee right now)...but anyway, have you not also noticed the difference between your sociology and economics professors?


I HAVE READ THE REST OF THE THREAD...


Supplanter, I read the rest of your last two posts...one typo is cool...but you must be drunk yo. I'm not saying your point is off, but hot damn, you fucked up...multiple times...

Oh, and this is bullshit:

Quote :

"I mean he is way more knowledgeable than almost anyone I grew up with in Mayberry, but I'd like to hold a professor to a high standard than that."

Mountain folk know more than you think. You just didn't ask. Mt. Airy rocks!!!

[Edited on March 15, 2006 at 12:35 AM. Reason : aaa]

3/15/2006 12:23:23 AM

yeah, the emphasize different things... but this guy was saying alot more directly contradictory stuff about other peoples fields than the people with expertise in those fields.

^this is probably largely a rant, so after your pee break you should take that into consideration before putting too much effort into it. i wish this class had a graded assignment before the last day to drop or turn to credit only so that i could have evaluated it better. i guess I'll find out if I've learned enough correctly and the proper way of spelling tomorrow. I just typed up like 20 notebook pages of notes just to check the spellings on all these random words. It still took alot of googling, and wikipedia to get nouns that msword couldnt handle.

3/15/2006 12:35:11 AM

^Are you really from Mt. Airy?

[Edited on March 15, 2006 at 12:38 AM. Reason : Cause part of my fam is....]

3/15/2006 12:38:02 AM

Yeah...
As appealing as the idea of creating a clever fake background story to fool tdub is... i just haven't gotten around to it yet

My dad's side is from Mt Airy, my mother's side from Low Gap... but I haven't really tried to trace it back any.

3/15/2006 12:43:18 AM

call his ass out. Tell your other professors about the "misinformation" you are being fed by this guy. I can almost garauntee they will help you prepare enough ammunition to leave his ass stuttering in disbelief that a student could challenge him.

3/15/2006 12:58:48 AM

Quote :

"My history professor has said there was “no way Shakespeare could haven’t written that stuff” without much further explanation. He said Columbus set out to prove the world wasn’t flat since many people at the time believed it to be so."

w
t
f


btw, Mt. Airy's awesome. My mom's family moved there and lived there a long time. Used to love visiting up there for Christmas and stuff.

[Edited on March 15, 2006 at 1:46 AM. Reason : broaden emphasis]

3/15/2006 1:44:26 AM

Quote :

"btw, Mt. Airy's awesome. My mom's family moved there and lived there a long time. Used to love visiting up there for Christmas and stuff."

The key word is visit... it can get to be a little small/boring after living in mayberry for 18 years... but it was a nice place to grow up for the most part.

^^Its easier to call out professors with objective grading styles, but when there are only 2 or 3 grades for the whole class which are largely how well he feels you did on test essays... i don't want to tempt fate that much. And he is still a fairly nice professor, even if he has some facts wrong, so I'd if I try to call him out I will either fail and make myself look dumb, or or succeed and feel bad. Since I made this thread I've come to terms with the fact that I can still learn general stuff about history, even if I'm not left with confidence on specific facts... I only brought back the thread b/c of the test today being the first graded assignment for the class, and I have no idea how it will go.

I have my test in 9mins, wish me luck!

3/15/2006 9:01:15 AM

Ok, well I don't doubt that.

3/15/2006 9:34:21 AM

Quote :

"the ancients knew ALOT of shit that even we don't know now"

like what?

3/15/2006 9:46:11 AM

^I've seen evidence specific drugs and medical procedures in my ancient science class. The professor, who I believe on the verge of retiring, had countless stories of where he studied ancient greek and latin medical texts and found new drugs or complications with our drugs that we didn't know about but that were proven after he insisted on them being tested. He also pointed out a specific medical procedure, saying that if it hadn’t been lost, then doctors who treated Lincoln could have saved him.

And my test is over... it went alright, but I'm looking at the low B, high C range I think. I finished first. I don't know if that indicates I studied more than average and others were indecisive, or if I wasn't well enough prepared. But I gave it a look over a few times during spring break, and a half hour on sunday, a half hour on monday, about about 3 hours yesterday, and another half hour of study this morning. That’s more than I study for most tests, but I still didn't leave feeling all that confident.

But he is taking volunteers to help him grade the tests... maybe the students wont know or care about the specific spellings as much as he does.

[Edited on March 15, 2006 at 10:08 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2006 10:07:33 AM

Quote :

"I believe that he thinks students these days are just really bad spellers. But he doesn't use the board, overhead, or anything in written that could give people a chance to learn how to spell knew words"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

3/15/2006 10:14:15 AM

^Supplanter had to be drunk. Or maybe English isn't his first language?

3/15/2006 10:17:00 AM

aha... i was a few hours into studying... it was all a mental breakdown... i'm innocent i say!

3/15/2006 10:19:01 AM

<--- History Major

I'll be the first to say, that while we have a bunch of really good professors in the department, there are a few that are completely fucking worthless. This guy sounds like one of them.

Christ, I'd just be happy if those fools would get together and decide on a documentation standard for the department.

3/15/2006 10:39:11 AM

Quote :

"though it doesn't change whether most europeans knew the world was round, the ancients knew ALOT of shit that even we don't know now. the library of alexandria was burned down by christians, setting us back 2,000 years by some estimates."

2000 years? I think not. Sure they had a lot of interesting and useful things in it, but 2000 years? So Alexandria was already pimping electricity and the industrial revolution and just didn't tell us about it?

3/15/2006 10:42:58 AM

They could've been. The Romans had the steam engine.

3/15/2006 11:24:51 AM

Imagine if they Romans had fully appreciated the application of technologies that were relegated to temple magic.... or Napoleon, for that matter.

3/15/2006 11:42:35 AM

I clicked on this thread hoping it was about professors with an inadequate grasp of the english language.

3/15/2006 12:44:41 PM

^^ The technology was inappropriate for the time. Iron was too expensive and weak to make an effective steam engine, even if the institution of slavery hadn't rendered a steam engine economically unnecessary.

It is important to point out, around the time of the steam engine iron was so cheap the English were already using it as a structural building material including bridges, fences, and horse-drawn rail. Back in mother Rome, building one iron bridge would have consumed all the iron generated over several years.

You would had to melt down the armaments of an entire legion to make one good strong boiler, much less the rest of a locamotive.

Early on, the history of technology was the history of mining productivity.

3/15/2006 1:37:01 PM

I suppose you're right.

Still doesn't let Napoleon off the hook.

3/15/2006 1:59:40 PM

I know he said on the first day (after I had already sat down), that he'd give people in the first row A's, 2nd row B's, 3rd row C's, and 4th row D's. This being a Harrelson room is really small, so 4th row isn't all that far back. I actually set there because, while there were a few 1st & 2nd row seats left, with the curve of the room I thought would make it difficult to see the slide projector placed in the far corner. But I, and my 4th row neighbors seemed to get mostly D's. He teaches 2 sections of this class, and said there were really no A's & B's in his first class, and some in his 2nd class... but mostly bad grades.

When the vast majority are doing horrible in your class, especially people who normally do well in other history classes with much less effort than they put into this class, then I think its on the professor somewhat to deal with the issue. Of course for next test maybe I'll study 6 hours the night before instead of 3, and start my studying for the test 2 weeks before instead of 1, but I'm still unhappy with the effort/reward level of this class.

He spent the first 10 mins of class telling us a story. As a 4 & 1/2 year old boy he and his 6 year old friend liked to look through trash. One day the 6 year old found motor & put it in his fort. My young professor liked to visit him alot and help him polish his motor, but one day the older boy wanted to go in the woods. The older kid took the younger into the woods, told him there were monsters there that would eat him, and left him there. Eventually the 6 years olds mother figure out what happened and went and rescued the hysterical younger boy.

Then my professor decided to steal the motor to get back at the other kid. And while playing with it in a tree, accidentally dropped it onto his toddler little brother's head who was below the tree. The baby sitter rushed him off to the hospital, and my young professor thought he would for sure go to jail. When the dad & babysitter & baby got back they went straight into the house without speaking to the 4 & 1/2 year old. The mother came home, found out the baby was hurt and went straight in. He waited on the porch out, and eventually his mom came out and told him everything would be okay. That he had done something really bad, but it was an accident.

The moral of the story is that, even though things seem bad since almost everyone in both his classes got bad grades, things will still be okay in the end. Maybe he just doesn't make a good maternal figure, but I don't like the idea that my test grade is being equated to a bad, hurtful accident. I studied alot to get that D. I thought I did alot better on the subject grading part of the test, but it turns out I got exactly the points from that section needed to get a D while sitting in the "D row." He took up all the tests after showing us our grade and said he is going to keep them for a year.

There was no multiple choice, true false, or anything like that on the test. It was fill in the blanks and essays. For the fill in the blanks & essay spelling could hurt you. Also it was okay to list just a persons last name, but if you include an incorrect first name and a correct last name then you get no credit. I felt sorry for the girl who set beside me… she had gotten a really hard to spell last name right, but had John instead of Jacob for the first name. She would have received full credit if she hadn’t attempted the first name (although there was no way for her or anyone to know this before the test), but instead she got no credit. One annoying one for me was an answer where I had prayer book, instead of common prayer book, and got no credit.

I need to pass the class to graduate. I don’t know if a D will work, of if I need to get like a C- or C, or what the requirement is.

HUMANITIES & SOC SCI (COLLEGE REQ)
03 GRP 502
HISTORY II

Does anyone know what this would count as? What grade do I need? I’ve never really worried about C walls (does that mean C- or C) or what kind of grades you need for college reqs vs departmental reqs vs electives b/c I never thought the effort I put in could result in a D.

3/17/2006 10:28:47 AM