I'm interested in rational/intelligent discussion and others' thoughts on this issue.

1. Does it matter who the real Israelites are? The "mainstream" Christian pastors would have us believe that the "Jews" are the Israelites, and place importance on this.

Although this is not widely known or taught in the "mainstream" churches, the Bible places a lot of importance on race. If you stop to think about it, the Bible is essentially a book written to one group (or race) of people (ie, the Israelites). The 10 Commandments and other laws of the Old Testament were only for the Israelites. This race of people was "God's Chosen People." God did not choose to interact with any other race in this way.

This may shock some, but "Jesus" (or Yahshua) was only sent to the Israelites (not all the people of earth, as has been falsely taught). Don't believe me?

Matthew 15:22-24: "And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 10:5-6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

And this makes perfect sense. It was only the Israelites who were under the law and needed a "savior." The "mainstream" churches try to explain this away by talking about a "spiritual Israel", but this interpretation is incorrrect. From the original scripture, it is clear that these passages (and others using the same original Greek words) are talking about the physical Israelites. By the way, John 3:16 was likely inserted into the Bible much later by a translator.


2. What about the fact that the so-called "Jews" may NOT, in fact, be racial Israelites? Several prominent Jewish scholars have admitted that most Jews are not racial Israelites. The 1925 edition of the Jewish Encyclopedia stated that “Edom is modern Jewry.” The people known as "Jews" may, in fact, be a mix of other races, including Canaanites, Edomites, Khazars, Turks, Asiatics, and others.


3. Even if you believe that the "Jews" are racial Israelites, is it not true that they are not ALL of the descendants of Israel? There is still the issue of what happened to the bulk of other Israelites (ie, the "lost tribes of Israel). The word "Jew" originates from the name of "Judah", one of the sons of Israel. Long before the time of Jesus, the nation of Israel split into two kingdoms. "Jew" refers to those who were of the southern nation of "Judah" (which included the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and some of Levi). The other 10 tribes of Israel were in the northern nation of "Israel." These 10 tribes went into exile around 700 B.C. and never returned to Palestine. They are the bulk of those referred to as the "lost tribes of Israel." The southern nation of Judah also went into exile, and only a small portion of those returned to Palestine. Therefore, only a small portion of the Israelites were in Palestine at the time of Jesus.


4. What happened to these northern 10 tribes and the portion of Judah that did not return to Palestine (ie, the "lost tribes of Israel")? Did they simply die out, or can they be identified today? And let me mention that there are Biblical prophecies (including many end-time prophecies) relating to the "House of Israel" (as opposed to the House of Judah, talking about the southern kingdom of Judah), indicating that these people (ie, those of the 10-tribed northern nation of "Israel") would not cease to exist. There are also prophecies saying that from the Israelites would come many great nations, and that the Israelites would become a "great multitude" of people.


[NOTE: This has been cleared with theDuke866. He has relaxed his rule restricting my posting ability, and I'm now allowed to post in my own threads--with the restriction that I cannot create more than one thread per week...or bttt more than one of my old (as-of-right now "old") threads per week.]

2/22/2006 9:30:59 AM

ok... someone bans you then puts those kind of restrictions on you... yet you still find the time and will power to post these long and convuluted threads? do you truly believe what you say that much?

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 9:34 AM. Reason : where does this unlimited time come from?]

2/22/2006 9:34:09 AM

I'm more interested in why you have a hard-on for all things jewish.

2/22/2006 9:34:59 AM

most rabbis interpret pesahim 87b to mean that jews were dispersed in order to seek new converts (and also to not all be killed) so of course they are going to not be "pure" israelites. judaism and christianity were drastically different from other religions of the time (in the middle east) in that their God was not location-specific.

(btw i am not jewish, but am a fan however.)



[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

2/22/2006 9:38:52 AM

Quote :

"ok... someone bans you then puts those kind of restrictions on you"

First off, I was suspended, not banned. And theDuke866 wasn't the one who suspended me. As for the suspension itself, the mod who suspended me did so (admittedly) for "comedic effect."

Quote :

"yet you still find the time and will power to post these long and convuluted threads? [...] where does this unlimited time come from"

I haven't posted in the Soap Box in over a month. So, it's not like I've been spending a lot of time posting here.

Quote :

"do you truly believe what you say that much?"

Yes.

2/22/2006 9:42:08 AM

I thought you had your very own thread to put these things in. I believe it was called "Salisburyboy's Very Own Thread."

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=382545

V I didn't waste my time to read that far down. My bad, though he still could have just used his own thread.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 10:20 AM. Reason : Yep.]

2/22/2006 10:13:32 AM

Quote :

"[NOTE: This has been cleared with theDuke866. He has relaxed his rule restricting my posting ability, and I'm now allowed to post in my own threads--with the restriction that I cannot create more than one thread per week...or bttt more than one of my old (as-of-right now "old") threads per week.]"

2/22/2006 10:15:53 AM

Da j00s be f00s.

2/22/2006 10:20:25 AM

i was just hoping i could destroy him with my jewnowledge. i consider myself an agnostic-zionist.

2/22/2006 10:24:12 AM

Quote :

"This may shock some, but "Jesus" (or Yahshua) was only sent to the Israelites (not all the people of earth, as has been falsely taught). "

What is meant in Luke 2:28-32...

Then he took him (the infant Jesus) up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, "Lord now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast perpared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."

Jesus also granted several miracles to Gentiles (a Roman soldier (Mt. 8:5-13) and a woman (Mt. 15:22-28) ) for their faith, not to mention that Gentile kings were the ones who brought the baby Jesus gifts after his birth, and not the learned scribes in Jerusalem.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 10:40 AM. Reason : more]

2/22/2006 10:39:35 AM

Quote :

"This may shock some, but "Jesus" (or Yahshua) was only sent to the Israelites (not all the people of earth, as has been falsely taught). Don't believe me?"

John 3:16 you moron

2/22/2006 10:50:26 AM

Quote :

"If you stop to think about it, the Bible is essentially a book written to one group (or race) of people (ie, the Israelites)."

people who share a religion are NOT a race. there is no way to determine race genetically. there are no races.

2/22/2006 10:52:59 AM

i think the main problem with israel is that like sometime around 1947 all these jews just all the sudden got this land that other people were living on at the time

2/22/2006 10:56:39 AM

^^http://genomebiology.com/2002/3/7/comment/2007/abstract

interesting read

2/22/2006 11:02:28 AM

Salisbury, aren't you in violation of your parole or whatever? Aren't you only allowed to post in "Salisburyboy's very own thread" or something or other?

2/22/2006 11:03:39 AM

Quote :

"Jesus also granted several miracles to Gentiles (a Roman soldier (Mt. 8:5-13) and a woman (Mt. 15:22-28) ) for their faith..."

Yes, Jesus granted some blessings upon non-Israelite people. But he was sent primarily to the Israelites. The Israelites were the people who needed a "savior", not any other races of people.


Matthew 15:22-24 is the scripture I referenced in the first post of the thread.

Here's the section all the way to verse 28:

"22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."


A couple points:

1. In response to this Canaanite woman, Jesus stresses that he was only sent to the Israelites (and not non-Israelite people).

2. He refers to this woman (figuratively) as a "dog" (contrasting that with the "children"). The "children" are the Israelites (God's chosen people and "children"), while the other races of people are not his chosen people (and not his "children").

3. Even though he granted her request to heal her daughter, Jesus did not deviate from his position that she was a non-Israelite whom he was not sent unto.

Quote :

"John 3:16 you moron"

As I stated in the first post of the thread:

Quote :

"By the way, John 3:16 was likely inserted into the Bible much later by a translator."

And why the need for the personal attack and name-calling? If possible, let's keep this discussion respectable and rational.

Quote :

"Salisbury, aren't you in violation of your parole or whatever? Aren't you only allowed to post in "Salisburyboy's very own thread" or something or other?"

No. I'm not. I cleared this with theDuke866. As I stated in the first post in this thread:

Quote :

"[NOTE: This has been cleared with theDuke866. He has relaxed his rule restricting my posting ability, and I'm now allowed to post in my own threads--with the restriction that I cannot create more than one thread per week...or bttt more than one of my old (as-of-right now "old") threads per week.]"

2/22/2006 11:08:15 AM

violation of parole...thats funny

2/22/2006 11:11:00 AM

k just checking. Carry on.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:11 AM. Reason : it's obvious I didn't even read the first post ]

2/22/2006 11:11:18 AM

sounds like rufus was right. massive bible conspiracy.

2/22/2006 11:13:15 AM

I read on the intenret that the Native Americans are the lost tribe of Judah.

2/22/2006 11:14:13 AM

i fail to even see the point of this thread

2/22/2006 11:15:21 AM

someone is getting suspended

2/22/2006 11:49:29 AM

Quote :

"someone is getting suspended"

Quote :

"[NOTE: This has been cleared with theDuke866. He has relaxed his rule restricting my posting ability, and I'm now allowed to post in my own threads--with the restriction that I cannot create more than one thread per week...or bttt more than one of my old (as-of-right now "old") threads per week.] "

2/22/2006 11:56:51 AM

this will not do.

2/22/2006 12:16:19 PM

salisburyboy, what about Christ's response to the centurian?

Matthew 8:10-13

Quote :

"And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel. And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Who is Christ referencing when He says that the many shall come from the east and west and shall sit down with the patriarchs of the Israelites in the kingdom of heaven?

2/22/2006 12:25:52 PM

Quote :

"this will not do"

I was suspended last time for supposedly "messing up" other people's threads by posting on "conspiracy-related" subject matter in those threads.

This posting arrangement only allows me to post in my own threads.

But hey, censorship was your goal all along. Just admit it.

2/22/2006 12:28:16 PM

Dammit, we'd better not have to dust off our cheese.

2/22/2006 12:35:27 PM

By way of actual reply...

Quote :

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

And then like two seconds later He helped the woman, whose faith He was just testing.

Quote :

"But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

And then by the end of the book He sent them everywhere else.

Quote :

"By the way, John 3:16 was likely inserted into the Bible much later by a translator."

Evidence?

Quote :

"The people known as "Jews" may, in fact, be a mix of other races, including Canaanites, Edomites, Khazars, Turks, Asiatics, and others."

Doesn't it strike you as improbable that a race would go completely undiluted over the course of thousands and thousands of years? Do you think all of your ancestors were the same race?

2/22/2006 12:40:37 PM

Quote :

"Dammit, we'd better not have to dust off our cheese."

How am I POSSIBLY doing anything wrong right now? I have cleared this with the moderator, and I'm posting in my own thread, and am prohibited from even posting in any other users' threads. So I can't "mess up" other users' threads by possibly mentioning "conspiracy-related" subject matter in those threads.

And how does bombing the soap box with cheese thread demonstrate that I'm doing anything wrong? It only shows that you guys, not me, are the ones who "mess up" the soap box and degrade the quality of the discussion.

That's what happened last time. I was doing nothing wrong, and the censorship crowd posted a bunch of cheese threads to somehow attempt to show that I was doing something warranting suspension. It was a joke. All that is going on is that some of the posters here really don't like me (and my views) and want to get me censored. It's not that I'm doing anything warranting suspension.

It's an obvious censorship agenda. Everyone can see that.

Quote :

"salisburyboy, what about Christ's response to the centurian? Matthew 8:10-13"

I read the passage in context, and basically what I see Jesus saying there is that not all Israelites will make it into the kingdom of heaven.

Quote :

"Who is Christ referencing when He says that the many shall come from the east and west and shall sit down with the patriarchs of the Israelites in the kingdom of heaven?"

True Israelites are currently dispersed all over the earth. So, he is referring to them.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 12:54 PM. Reason : `]

2/22/2006 12:48:34 PM

You need to read the whole Bible, not just a few verses. Yes, Jesus was sent to the Israelites at first. Keep reading. There came a time (after the resurrection) where Jesus commanded his apostles:

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations...

Don't forget Acts chapter 10.

Think about the meaning behind "the last shall be first and the first shall be last". The gospel of Jesus was first taught to the Jews and later to the Gentiles. Now the Gentiles have the gospel of Jesus and are teaching it to the Jews.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Bible places emphasis on a race as I would say that it places emphasis on family/religion - it just so happens that this family grew into a sizable populace to the point where some consider it to be a race.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 12:58 PM. Reason : -]

2/22/2006 12:53:58 PM

^^ Why on earth would Jesus tell a gentile centurian about the salvation of the Israelites?

2/22/2006 12:55:39 PM

Quote :

"By the way, John 3:16 was likely inserted into the Bible much later by a translator."

I just thought I'd address this comment.

You can't just pick and choose which parts of the Bible you feel were translated incorrectly or doctored. You have to get some proof ( read: you can't ). We could just as easily dismiss your entire point by saying "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" in Matt 15:22-24 was

Quote :

"likely inserted into the Bible much later by a translator."

and be done with it.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 1:08 PM. Reason : -]

2/22/2006 1:07:32 PM

*ahem* message_topic.aspx?topic=382545

2/22/2006 1:25:21 PM

user_logout.aspx

2/22/2006 1:34:59 PM

Quote :

"Why on earth would Jesus tell a gentile centurian about the salvation of the Israelites? "

He was making a point to him concerning how he had faith greater than many of the Israelites. But also remember that Jesus was probably speaking to this man in the presence of some of the apostles and his other disciples, and was making a point to them as well.

Quote :

"Evidence?"

Here's some commentary on how John 3:16-21 may have been added:

http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/John316.htm

Quote :

"You can't just pick and choose which parts of the Bible you feel were translated incorrectly or doctored. You have to get some proof ( read: you can't ). We could just as easily dismiss your entire point by saying "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" in Matt 15:22-24 was "likely inserted into the Bible much later by a translator" and be done with it."

Even if you don't want to consider that some parts of the Bible may be mistranslated or altered, think about the Bible in its entirety. It is a book written to one race of people, the Israelites. Only the Israelites were under the law and needed a "savior."

2/22/2006 1:39:42 PM

From your link:

Quote :

"We know just from observation that it is the jews who love the world, and all the material goods, gold, silver and things of value. Yet they are the ones who will be totally destroyed in the end, by God’s Servant Race, the Anglo-Saxon, Germainc, Scandinavian, Celtic, Nordic, Slavic and kindred people of the so-called Christian Nations of the West."

Classic salisburyboy.

I missed you, little buddy!

2/22/2006 1:43:29 PM

Quote :

"*ahem*"

As I've said repeatedly, I cleared this with theDuke866. He has agreed to this. Your beef is with him.

2/22/2006 1:45:08 PM

No beef. I genuinely missed you.

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=385528&page=1#8317434

2/22/2006 1:49:40 PM

Quote :

"Dammit, we'd better not have to dust off our ch__se."

2/22/2006 3:27:23 PM

Salisburyboy, quit bitching about the offhand cheese remark and respond to the rest of my other post.

Then, tell me by what possible evidence it can be accepted that all these "lost Jews" you're talking about ended up as a bunch of Nordic Europeans.

2/22/2006 3:36:09 PM

WHY DOES IT FUCKING MATTER?

2/22/2006 3:55:29 PM

I was anti-Semitic for a while. I couldn't get over the "chosen people" part (as a race), the politics of Israel, and the fact that they make it so damn hard for me to become one.

I got over it and was anti-Semitic against all Semitic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam).

But then I got over that.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 4:06 PM. Reason : sss]

2/22/2006 4:05:39 PM

2/22/2006 4:06:22 PM

Quote :

"Even if you don't want to consider that some parts of the Bible may be mistranslated or altered..."

I consider many parts of the Bible to be mistranslated and altered. I'm just saying that you can't pick and choose which parts are correct and which parts are incorrect to make the Bible read the way you want it to.

2/22/2006 4:10:40 PM

^he may only be able to post 1 thread a week, but if they get cheese bombed (essentially free bumps) then there is a chance that the soapbox will again become only about jews.

2/22/2006 4:11:21 PM

Quote :

"Then, tell me by what possible evidence it can be accepted that all these "lost Jews" you're talking about ended up as a bunch of Nordic Europeans."

First off, I'm not saying the "nordic" peoples of "European" descent are lost Jews. I'm saying they are descendants of the ISRAELITES. There is a distinction between Israelites and "jews" (which I touched on earlier in the thread).

The fact that the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Germanic, Scandinavian, and kindred peoples of "European" descent are the descendents of the Israelites can be proven from both historical and Biblical evidence.

Historical Evidence

Most of the Israelites were taken into captivity long before the time of Jesus and never returned to Palestine. The ten-tribed northern nation of "Israel" was taken captive by the Assyrians (to the area just south of the Caucasus mountains) around 700 BC. These people never returned to Palestine. Later, the nation of Judah (consisting of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and part of Levi) was taken captive to Babylon. Only a very small portion of those from the nation of Judah returned to Palestine. It was only a small portion of Israelites who where in Palestine at the time of Jesus.

Now, the issue is what happened to these other Israelites. This is the debate over the "lost tribes of Israel." It is very unlikely that these Israelites died out or disappeared because they were an immense number of people. We now know from historical records that these people migrated northward over the Cuacasus mountains and into Europe (and this was hundreds of years before the time of Jesus).

White European peoples are known as "Caucasians" because historians only traced their origin back to the area around the Caucasus Mountains. Here is where the connection is made. The tribes of Israel were released from captivity in the area just south of the Caucasus mountains around this same time that historians have found that the "Caucasians" emerged on the scene. The "Caucasians" and the tribes of Israel are the same group of people.

Biblical Evidence

Jesus clearly instructed his disciples to go to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel." (See Matthew 10:5-6, which is posted above). NOW, TO WHOM WAS THE MESSAGE OF "CHRISTIANITY" TAKEN? To the white peoples of Europe, of course. Up until very recently, virtually only the white European peoples were Christians. And to this day, they are the ones who are most receptive to the Christian message. This is because they are Israelites. The message was meant for them. It was not meant for any other race of people.

[Note: This is only a portion of the both the historical and biblical evidence. There is much more.]

2/22/2006 4:18:37 PM

Quote :

"Up until very recently, virtually only the white European peoples were Christians. And to this day, they are the ones who are most receptive to the Christian message. This is because they are Israelites."

So white people are genetically predisposed to being receptive of Christ?

2/22/2006 4:21:22 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

2/22/2006 4:33:45 PM

Quote :

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

Tell me, then, what you think happened to the lost tribes of Israel that were taken into captivity and never returned to Palestine? Did they disappear and die out? Is some other race of people their descendents?

2/22/2006 4:36:15 PM

dude its just a fucking story in a book

IT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING

2/22/2006 4:37:18 PM