With the Wii set to take the lead next week or the week after that, some people are claiming that Nintendo has won the console war. However, with major pricecuts by both Sony and Microsoft, along with supply problems with the Wii, I think christmas will truly be the deciding factor of who wins.

discuss

8/17/2007 2:32:18 PM

the wii is cheap, thats why it sells more. i don't think you need a market analyst to tell you that.

8/17/2007 2:36:07 PM

your console sucks

8/17/2007 2:38:08 PM

This thread wasn't necessary and thank god the 360 came out a year early or we'd be left with nothing but waggle and mini-game compilations.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 2:43 PM. Reason : :]

8/17/2007 2:42:38 PM

8/17/2007 3:09:30 PM

Nintendo Wii is too much fun. There's nothing like it.

I own both the 360 and the Wii.

8/17/2007 3:10:44 PM

You have to be a part of the current generation to be a part of the console war. The we is a fun product but in no way is it competition for Sony or Microsoft, in terms of market. Its like comparing the LG Chocolate or EnV to sales of a Treo, Blackberry or iPhone... completely different market segments. Most people will own either a PS3 or a 360, owning a Wii is independent of that.

8/17/2007 3:12:19 PM

console wars are gay. play what you enjoy...dont worry about what i do.

8/17/2007 3:20:00 PM

^^I'm not trying to troll or anything dude but I guarantee that the next generation of consoles after the Wii/360/PS3 are ALL gonna implement some kind of motion sensor like the Wii does now. Nintendo hit a goldmine with this idea.

8/17/2007 3:22:58 PM

i really hate people who have Wiis and PS3s...if you have a 360 i automatically love you cause thats how i roll...microsoft fan boys 4 life until a new system comes out

8/17/2007 3:23:55 PM

^^ Hell, Xbox is the only current generation that doesn't, although I heard rumors they were thinking about it

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 3:24 PM. Reason : a]

8/17/2007 3:24:04 PM

The last generation is implementing it too!!!

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/28074/Wii-style-controller-to-hit-PS2

Look, Nintendo did not invent motion sensing. They were simply the first to design an entire console around it. The Wii is step backwards in almost every other way. Limited graphics, limited I/O, limited storage, and limited online capabilities. I bought one so I could play 1st party games like Zelda and Mario Kart and because $250 is pretty easy to justify given how much money one spends on crap they don't need. I still maintain it's weak hardware and lack of 3rd party games will catch up to it, just like it caught up to the N64 and Gamecube. In the mean time, Nintendo is making a killing on a console that costs them nothing to produce (the Wii was making $70 a sale since day one). Like I said, thank god the 360 came first, because a gaming industry dominated by a console who's main feature is a gimmick is not something I could have stomached.

8/17/2007 3:36:51 PM

people keep talking about how weak the cube is in terms of processing power. but check this out
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Crunshii/wii-more-powerful-than-xbox360-w-pics--36878.phtml

i agree with most of the stuff in the article. i think Nintendo will in release a newer more powerful version of the wii at some point though maybe like a wii max or they will have some type of add on to increase the storage.

^ i disagree with that article. with the wii being the #1 console third party developers will make more and more games and they'll continue to make them better and better. and both the 360 and pss3 are guily of making gimmicky games as well ,it just so happens that thier gimmick is their overly powerful hardware. the first few games for both systems looked awesome but were about as exciting as watching paint dry and had plots comparable to bad dudes.

8/17/2007 6:51:31 PM

^ The title of that article is ridiculous.

I would even go so far as to say RIDONKULOUS.

And I agree that the war doesn't really include the wii, the hardcore games competition is between the 360 and PS3.

8/17/2007 7:13:21 PM

well the article makes A LOT of good points. i wouldn't go as far to say that the wii is more powerful but i wouldn't say it's not capable of similar graphics. the architecture of the systems are completely different so listing off specs shouldn't be the only factor in comparing power.

8/17/2007 7:18:37 PM

^Until we see some games that actually LOOK better than 360 games that article is bunk.

Quote :

"Nintendo did not invent motion sensing. "

Duh.

Quote :

"I still maintain it's weak hardware and lack of 3rd party games will catch up to it, just like it caught up to the N64 and Gamecube."

3rd party companies follow systems that sell the most units, period. Playstation 1 and 2 were the weakest consoles of their generations (although the difference isn't as clearly substantial as in this case), yet they still dominated. Already there are reports of several 3rd parties making the Wii a priority over the other systems.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/21/sega-ignoring-nintendo-a-massive-error/

If Sony and MS can't slow down the Wii, companies are gonna jump ship slowly but surely. The Wii's weak graphic capabilities also mean 3rd parties can make their games for less money too.

Quote :

"limited I/O"

Ummm, no. The Wii still supports Gamecube controllers and the Classic Controller, which means it's capable of everything a 360 controller can do and then some, from a control perspective.

The Wii controls are not a gimmick. Metroid Prime 3 looks to improve on traditional console FPS controls and Mario Galaxy just looks awesome. The mini-game thing is getting old, but the DS is thriving after developers figured out how to work with the touch screen. The new Zelda on the DS using nothing but touch screen controls and all reports have raved about them. With time devs should be able to find ways to make use of the WiiMote effectively.

I agree about online and storage though, Nintendo continues to drop the ball on those. No HD was a big mistake on their part. I intend to pick up a 360 soon, mostly for the downloadable content (and maybe Devil May Cry 4), although the hype for Bioshock is sucking me in.

8/17/2007 8:53:58 PM

ps1 worst of its generation? i dont think so. at worst it was close second. what was it competing with...saturn/64?

8/17/2007 9:02:07 PM

its ridiculous to even mention graphics when comparing a wii to the 360 and ps3 simply because it doesn't support hd.

8/17/2007 9:03:04 PM

^^ Yeah, it was weaker than both IIRC, but although I think the 64 was more powerful, since it used a cartridge instead of CD, it couldn't do any good textures or large amounts of sound, which set it way back.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 9:08 PM. Reason : It did have good music though.]

8/17/2007 9:07:42 PM

so basically you're saying the 64 was better than the psx based on hardware potential?

that makes sense

also

Quote :

"console wars are gay. play what you enjoy...dont worry about what i do."

8/17/2007 9:09:51 PM

He (ShinAntonio) didn't say worst, he said weakest.

8/17/2007 9:11:46 PM

PS1 and PS2 were weakest graphically. The Saturn was about on par with the PS2 in 3D, but it kicked ass in 2D.

8/17/2007 9:48:26 PM

Quote :

"3rd party companies follow systems that sell the most units, period. Playstation 1 and 2 were the weakest consoles of their generations (although the difference isn't as clearly substantial as in this case), yet they still dominated."

The thing is, the fact that the difference is so substantial is what's going to doom the Wii when it comes to 3rd party support. The simple fact is that the Wii simply cannot handle the majority of the games 3rd party developers want to create. Resident Evil 5 will never be on the Wii. GTAIV will never be on the Wii. There are many developers that are simply not interested in waggle and party games. They want to make games that offer cinematic experiences and compete with Hollywood. The Wii is just not capable of those types of games. Sure, it'll get tons of games that make you shake your arm is some gimmicky fashion that isn't really necessary at all, and of course Nintendo's 1st party games will be spectacular, but is that really enough? That's exactly what the N64 and Gamecube had, minus waggle. The Wii is a fad, HD is the future, and the public will eventually come around.

Oh, and saying that the PS1 and PS2 were the weakest consoles of their generation is disingenuous at best, and an outright lie at worst. They did some things better than other consoles, and were worse in others, just like in every generation.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 10:13 PM. Reason : :]

8/17/2007 10:01:57 PM

Zelda gave me a good 90+ hours of game play.

Quote :

"There are many developers that are simply not interested in waggle and party games"

True, but there are a number of developers who can make quality games with the Wii and develop solid games that use the wiimote to its potential. The Wii has two major things going for it..1. Its a lot cheaper to develop for than Xbox360 and PS3. and 2. It has a wider share of the market.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 10:57 PM. Reason : z]

8/17/2007 10:45:13 PM

he's right though in that games need to have that "wow" factor to pull in more than the hardcore gamers. hd makes the wow that much easier. ppl just look at gears of war and go DAMN. same thing for a lot of other 360/ps3 games.

8/17/2007 11:01:06 PM

So much crap from people who are incredibly biased.

Quote :

"You have to be a part of the current generation to be a part of the console war. The we is a fun product but in no way is it competition for Sony or Microsoft, in terms of market."

You are stupid if you think this. No, really. The Wii is directed at a different crowd, but its success and the PS3s catastrophic failure is taking its toll on Sony. And lets not argue whether or not the PS3 has been a catastrophic failure. It has been up to this point. Sales are significantly lower than hoped. Sony is looking to the future, but at present the Wii is beating it down in terms of success, and developers are taking notice.

Quote :

"The Wii is step backwards in almost every other way. Limited graphics, limited I/O, limited storage, and limited online capabilities."

In terms of numbers that can be put on paper, yes, you are correct. However, that is the problem with the market as Sony and Microsoft see it. Their stategy for developing hardware is to throw the biggest numbers in the console to make it look big and powerful. Their stategy for software has typically been redo the same games over and over with better graphics (and often LESS functionality). Next generation games that look prettier than last generation, but less features? Pass. It should be the opposite. Features should take precedence over graphics (to a certain extent).

The Wii was a change in Philosophy, something that was sorely needed for this market.

Quote :

"And I agree that the war doesn't really include the wii, the hardcore games competition is between the 360 and PS3."

The PS3 and 360 were developed to compete for the same, limited market. The Wii was developed to hit some of that market plus many others. Its like comparing a gang fight to an army walking accross a country without any oposition.

Quote :

"The thing is, the fact that the difference is so substantial is what's going to doom the Wii when it comes to 3rd party support. The simple fact is that the Wii simply cannot handle the majority of the games 3rd party developers want to create."

The Wii cannot handle things as developers had been thinking about them. Once again, its a different philosophy.

No, the wii can't handle RE5. On the other side, the PS3 can't handle Wii Sports (much more embarrasing, wouldn't you say ).

The wii will do fantastic if developers use it. Gimmick games are coming out that suck, and I hope that the market will punish them for these half assed attempts. But in terms of actual gameplay, there is so much potential. The Wii is making developers think. Prime 3, Zack and Wiki, and others will show off some great abilities and I am hoping it works well.

You can go back and play more WW2 games, but I will be looking forward to something that I didn't play 10 years ago.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 11:10 PM. Reason : ]

8/17/2007 11:08:47 PM

I'm really interested to see how Super Smash Brothers Brawl will go up against Halo 3. In my opinion, Sony really needs to develop an online multiplayer that can rival these two if they want to survive. Both have a HUUUUGE following and once they hit the market everything is really gonna go fuck bazoo.

8/17/2007 11:19:29 PM

Quote :

"The PS3 and 360 were developed to compete for the same, limited market. The Wii was developed to hit some of that market plus many others."

The handheld market has made Nintendo more money than the Gamecube/N64 ever did also. It appeals to the most people and costs less to develop for. Does that mean it's better though?

Also, the market that the PS3 and Xbox hits is the market with the most avid gamers, who play (and buy) the most games. So while the most systems sold may very well be on the wii, I wouldn't be surprised if the average owner of a 360 or ps3 owned twice as many games.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 11:22 PM. Reason : And $250 isn't really that cheap, especially if you have to buy extra controllers WITH attachments]

8/17/2007 11:21:22 PM

^^^^ I will agree that graphics are one the the first hooks a consumer is exposed to.

^^^ Good post.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 11:21 PM. Reason : a]

8/17/2007 11:21:24 PM

Quote :

"The thing is, the fact that the difference is so substantial is what's going to doom the Wii when it comes to 3rd party support. The simple fact is that the Wii simply cannot handle the majority of the games 3rd party developers want to create. "

Says who? Who's to say what exactly third parties want to create. Major 3rd party companies (or, rather the people that run them) create games for profit and have little to any notion of artistry or whatever the hell you're thinking of.

Quote :

"There are many developers that are simply not interested in waggle and party games. They want to make games that offer cinematic experiences and compete with Hollywood. "

Again, who are your sources on this? I won't argue that developers want to make waggle and/or party games, the only thing is the Wii is capable of much more than this. Just because the first year has been relatively unremarkable (due mostly to tacked-on controls), doesn't mean the following years won't offer more unique experiences. Several high-profile developers have expressed interest in the Wii because it offers something new in terms of control. There are hardly any 360 or PS3 games that couldn't have been done last generation with scaled-down graphics.

Quote :

"The Wii is a fad, HD is the future, and the public will eventually come around."

Utter bullshit. The Wii is well on its way to a strong user base, which will attract 3rd parties like a moth to the flame. It continues to fly off the shelves nine months after release. HD is the future (I was pretty vocal about my disappointment that the Wii doesn't support 720p and 1080i), but market penetration for HDTVs is much too small for it to make a big impact for another couple of years.

8/17/2007 11:21:27 PM

Quote :

"You are stupid if you think this. No, really. The Wii is directed at a different crowd, but its success and the PS3s catastrophic failure is taking its toll on Sony."

Really? Sony is doing just fine. It's profits this past quarter were double what they were a year ago. Their consumer electronics and movie studio divisions are raking more than enough to support a lag from their gaming division. On top of that, they have positioned themselves to be the leader of the HD era with Blu-ray all but toppling HD-DVD. The PS3's launch was failure, but it's eventual success is all but written in stone. You'd be a fool to think otherwise.

Quote :

"On the other side, the PS3 can't handle Wii Sports (much more embarrasing, wouldn't you say )."

Huh? The PS3 could very easily handle Wii sports. You don't think Sony couldn't make a motion sensing peripheral for the PS3 (hello EyeToy)?

Quote :

"Just because the first year has been relatively unremarkable (due mostly to tacked-on controls), doesn't mean the following years won't offer more unique experiences. Several high-profile developers have expressed interest in the Wii because it offers something new in terms of control."

Did you even watch E3. Developers not named Nintendo didn't show shit for Wii. All we got was a fucking balance board and more Mario. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it definitely doesn't help your point.

Quote :

"There are hardly any 360 or PS3 games that couldn't have been done last generation with scaled-down graphics."

Not true. There is a difference between graphics for the hell of it and graphics that are used to accomplish a specific purpose such as convey emotion, immerse you in a game, MIMIC HOLLYWOOD (like I keep saying). See Bioshock. It's very similar to games that implement waggle just for the hell of it, or games that actually use it to do something that could never have done without it. So far all I've seen is the former.

Look, I agree, the Wii did something fresh and innovative I guess, but if the most interesting thing they had to show me at E3 was the fucking Power Pad version 2.0, I could care less. Bioshock, MGS4, Heavenly Sword, Crysis, games that replicate (and surpass) Hollywood. That's what I want to play. If developers want to complement that experience with some innovative control (Lair comes to mind), even better. But people need to stop kidding themselves into thinking the Wii has ushered in some massive revolution in the way games are designed. All it's done so far is reaffirmed the fact that people like cheap shit.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 11:36 PM. Reason : :]

8/17/2007 11:28:05 PM

guyz the wee sucks because it maeks my madden dudes not look good

8/17/2007 11:35:46 PM

ps3 madden was the one with the worst reviews

8/17/2007 11:39:35 PM

That's because they expect more out of the PS3 and 360.

I mean hell, the DS version of madden got a 7.4 on IGN.



but if they would have put that out on the 360 it would get a 1, at most.

8/17/2007 11:44:36 PM

seriously though - I intend to buy a ps3. in like 2k10 when they hit the $150 price point. Hopefully it'll have some decent exclusives besides final fantasy by then.

8/17/2007 11:49:50 PM

Let me put this a completely different way. How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over an XBox 360 had it cost $400? Thanks, I'm done here.

[Edited on August 17, 2007 at 11:53 PM. Reason : :]

8/17/2007 11:52:52 PM

Quote :

"There is a difference between graphics for the hell of it and graphics that are used to accomplish a specific purpose such as convey emotion, immerse you in a game, MIMIC HOLLYWOOD (like I keep saying). "

Who gives a fuck about Hollywood? ANY hardcore gamer will tell you they want to play games, not watch them. One of the most common complaints against MGS and the PSX FF games is the cinematics bog down the experience.

Furthermore, these games will convey emotion and offer more immersive graphics, but developing games with these capabilities will require a hell of a lot of artists and equipment, increasing already really high costs. Just because you want doesn't mean 3rd party developers will follow. The cost to develop is skyrocketing.

Quote :

"See Bioshock. It's very similar to games that implement waggle just for the hell of it, or games that actually use it to do something that could never have done without it. So far all I've seen is the former."

And my point is that the developers in the future could improve on that and do something fresh and interesting.

Quote :

"Look, I agree, the Wii did something fresh and innovative I guess, but if the most interesting thing they had to show me at E3 was the fucking Power Pad version 2.0, I could care less. Bioshock, MGS4, Heavenly Sword, Crysis, games that replicate (and surpass) Hollywood. That's what I want to play."

Well that's fine for you. But that doesn't mean that's what the market will follow.

Quote :

"All it's done so far is reaffirmed the fact that people like cheap shit."

Blatantly false statement. It's proved that given an intuitive interface you can attract new people to video games. The Wii has succeeded primarily on the strength of Wii Sports, which just about everyone says their families (old people and everything) love.

Quote :

"How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over and XBox 360 had it cost $400? Thanks, I'm done here."

Yeah, with dumb questions like that you are. The Wii flies off the shelves off the strength of Wii Sports and its simple, consumer friendly interface. If it didn't have those the $250 price tag wouldn't mean shit. I'd still own a Wii because the ONLY thing I want on the 360 is Xbox Live Arcade games and possibly Devil May Cry and Bioshock.

[Edited on August 18, 2007 at 12:01 AM. Reason : ""]

8/17/2007 11:53:00 PM

Quote :

"And my point is that the developers in the future could improve on that and do something fresh and interesting."

SHOW ME?????? How long are people going to wait for games with PS2 level graphics to come out that finally make proper use of motion controls. I would love to play these games as much as you, but I just don't see them coming anytime soon.

Quote :

"The Wii has succeeded primarily on the strength of Wii Sports it's price, which just about everyone says their families (old people and everything) love can afford."

Quote :

"Let me put this a completely different way. How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over an XBox 360 had it cost $400? Thanks, I'm done here."

Quote :

"Let me put this a completely different way. How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over an XBox 360 had it cost $400? Thanks, I'm done here."

Quote :

"Let me put this a completely different way. How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over an XBox 360 had it cost $400? Thanks, I'm done here."

Quote :

"Let me put this a completely different way. How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over an XBox 360 had it cost $400? Thanks, I'm done here."

[Edited on August 18, 2007 at 12:00 AM. Reason : :]

8/17/2007 11:56:40 PM

Quote :

"SHOW ME?????? How long are people going to wait for games with PS2 level graphics to come out that finally make proper use of motion controls. I would love to play these games as much as you, but I just don't see them coming anytime soon. "

Supposedly Metroid 3 is going to have the best controls ever for a FPS..that will be proper use of the controls. Wii sports was a good use of the control, and I fucking can't wait for Rockstars Table tennis.

Quote :

"Let me put this a completely different way. How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over an XBox 360 had it cost $400? Thanks, I'm done here. "

Hmm, I would never pay 400 for a game system. I'll always wait for the price to come down, so in all honesty, I will likely pick up a ps3 or 360 eventually. However, ask me what system I'd rather have for free..I'd pick the Wii.

8/18/2007 12:02:17 AM

$350 is the maximum amount I'll pay for any console. I'm getting a 360 in the next month b/c it dropped to that point. That said, I would've paid $350 for the wii if it had launched at that cost.

If there was a hypothetical situation where both wiis and 360s were available at the $350 price point, I would've purchased the wii first.

does that satisfy your trolling?

8/18/2007 12:07:43 AM

I think the Wii is the first time I paid more than $200 for a console. The 360 will likely be the second.

Quote :

"The Wii has succeeded primarily on the strength of Wii Sports it's price, which just about everyone says their families (old people and everything) love can afford."

If that was the case, those people could be enjoying PS2-level graphics on a fucking PS2 for half the price.

8/18/2007 12:13:52 AM

^ Good fucking point...if I was concerned about price I would get the PS2. Its cheap, theres a shit load of games in its library, and they're still making new games for it.

8/18/2007 12:21:15 AM

I just think it's hilarious that people think "legions" of hardcore teenage and young adult gamers are going to perpetually drive the video game market towards the PS3 and 360 given the success of the Wii, the losses incurred by MS and Sony, and the apathy by the general public towards HD.

Sure, the Wii may be a fad, but it's an infinitely more successful one. You can talk about people getting tired of mini-games and gimmick games, but that's the entire reason they bought the system. At some point someone at either MS or Sony is going to go "we're idiots. we're pandering to a small demographic and losing money, whereas if we just took the original XBox/PS2 and threw on motion sensing and a bowling game, we'd be rich"

8/18/2007 2:52:28 AM

Quote :

"How many of you Wii owners would have bought it over an XBox 360 had it cost $400?"

I bought a 360 before I bought a Wii.

You're a dumbass.

8/18/2007 3:02:56 AM

Let's see, so far 0 of you would have bought Wii had it cost more. Hmmmm......

^^No, the entire reason they bought the system was because it was cheap. Now they are all sitting around with the damn thing collecting dust in their living room as they've all gotten tired of waggle and mini-games. It's starting to show on the sales charts too, just look at Japan. You know I'm right. MS or Sony will probably implement some cheap motion sensing solution at some point to cash in on this fad (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/28074/Wii-style-controller-to-hit-PS2) but it will never replace traditional gaming.

I keep pointing out E3 and how there was almost 0 announcements of 3rd party games for the Wii, yet the only response I've gotten is "look at Metroid Prime 3!!!". Wow, another 1st party game. There are still tons of FPSs, action games, sports game, racing sims, etc..... being made for the 360 and PS3. This whole shift in the game industry that you're all talking about hasn't happened yet, and never will. Games take 2 years to develop these days, and no developer is going to risk shifting their focus to a fad that people might not care about in 2 years when the 360, PS3, and PC are sure things.

8/18/2007 8:13:41 AM

I'm sorry, did I say PS2 graphics? I meant PS1 and Sega Saturn graphics.

8/18/2007 9:06:15 AM

anybody who says the wii price is the sole basis of it's success obliviously hasn't played it before. the wii greatest selling point is it's simplicity and fun factor. any one can play it, it's success is based on drawing in so many people outside of "gamer" demographic, women , old people etc. my lady friend hates video games but she'll sit and play wii sports for hours. my mom hasn't touched a video game since ms. pac-manbut when ever i go home she's like where's that little game thing so i can play?

8/18/2007 9:47:04 AM

I would have bought a Wii had it cost more, simply for the fact that I wanted Zelda, Mario, Metroid and other nintendo-exclusive games...

8/18/2007 9:52:00 AM

^^Yes, but who bought the Wii? You did, a gamer. The Wii is only being introduced to the non-gamer demographic after someone who's been a life long gamer introduces it into the household. Until your mom and your girlfriend go out and buy one for themselves, then it doesn't matter.

^Yes, and that's exactly what I bought one for. The same reason I bought a Nintendo 64 and Gamecube. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough for those 2 consoles to be long term successes.

8/18/2007 10:01:39 AM

Quote :

" so far 0 of you would have bought Wii had it cost more."

I have spent more on my Wii than on my 360.

Wii - $250
3 Wiimotes - $120
1 Nunchuck - $20
6 games - $300
Component Cables - $40
Nyko play and charge - $30

8/18/2007 10:07:48 AM