I don't know any more.

McCain used to make a lot of sense. For example, at one time, he opposed the Bush tax cuts because they mostly went to the rich and did little to stimulate consumer spending in the face of a recession. He also warned that rising deficits can raise interest rates and retard growth. He was also a leading voice for the troop surge into Iraq, which actually seems to have done some good:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1708843,00.html

But, now he seems to be turning back on so much. Now he thinks the tax cuts were a good idea. What!? Does he actually believe that?

So I am worried. If I vote for McCain in 2008, will I get the 2002 McCain I want? Or will I be stuck with this supply-side stranger?

2/13/2008 5:03:23 PM

It's called "running right during primary season"

Do you honestly believe he would say that the tax cuts were a bad thing during a tough primary race in which all of his challengers questioned his conservative credentials?

And of course he still supports the surge. He is and has been the most unflappable supporter of the war in the race.

[Edited on February 13, 2008 at 5:07 PM. Reason : 2]

2/13/2008 5:06:18 PM

but will he be running for re-election his entire first term? will the right still have his ear if he is elected?

2/13/2008 5:07:08 PM

Sounds like McCain's just positioning himself so the rest of the republicans like him more.

He'll still be McCain when he gets into office, probably. He's still extremely grumpy about Vietnam and such, so I imagine he doesn't have any issues with changing his views one last time when he gets his butt on the ballot to get everybody's vote.

[Edited on February 13, 2008 at 5:08 PM. Reason : Some quick replies thar]

2/13/2008 5:08:17 PM

Quote :

"but will he be running for re-election his entire first term?"

Of course not. He knew his immigration reform bill was political suicide, and he pushed it anyway. He has always been a maverick.

2/13/2008 5:09:28 PM

I get that he's positioning himself to please Republicans. But when will that end? Will he placate the right-wing for 4 years to try and secure re-election? Or will he stand-up for the issues he supposedly believed in?

2/13/2008 5:11:33 PM

Quote :

"Of course not. He knew his immigration reform bill was political suicide, and he pushed it anyway. He has always been a maverick."

And then abandoned it like an unwanted child on prom night.

Straight talk!

2/13/2008 5:50:54 PM

I think if McCain does win it, he's in it for 4 years, doubt he'd go a second term

2/13/2008 6:04:39 PM

I am shocked that anyone does not see McCain for the pandering politician that he is. He always has and always will say whatever it takes to be popular.

So the fact that he is "going back" on things should not be surprising. This is why alot of people who call themselves "true conservatives" absolutely HATE him. He talks like he is conservative and stuff but then he stabs conservatives in the back so that the media and liberals will love him for it. He has always been like this.

2/13/2008 6:05:37 PM

^^for real...it will seriously be time for a dem if he did manage to win...i mean 32 years and 24 of them being repub is just way too much

[Edited on February 13, 2008 at 6:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2008 6:06:21 PM

Not my point.

2/13/2008 6:44:00 PM

I look forward to the John McCain '02 vs. John McCain now debates on YouTube.

2/13/2008 6:52:28 PM

Oh wow, a bunch of people that wouldn't vote for McCain against a democrat to begin with have had a "revelation" and are now pissed at him. How...predictable.

2/13/2008 7:30:14 PM

i supported mccain in 2000. but recently he seems to be an entirely different guy.

2/13/2008 7:36:48 PM

^ Oh really? You voted for him in the Republican primary?

2/13/2008 7:37:43 PM

no

point?

i didn't vote in any primaries that year. i wasn't of voting age when our primary happened (but was in the general)

2/13/2008 8:03:32 PM

So you're a registered Republican who would have voted for him in 2000 in the primaries?

And if you're old enough to vote in the general election you can vote in the primary, I thought that was common knowledge.

[Edited on February 13, 2008 at 8:19 PM. Reason : more]

2/13/2008 8:05:00 PM

Quote :

"Oh wow, a bunch of people that wouldn't vote for McCain against a democrat to begin with have had a "revelation" and are now pissed at him. How...predictable."

wow

2/13/2008 8:06:57 PM

Quote :

"And if you're old enough to vote in the general election you can vote in the primary, I thought that was common knowledge. "

Ummm....except people can turn 18 between the primary and the general.

2/13/2008 10:11:57 PM

Requirements for voting in NC...

Quote :

"You must: * Be a citizen of the United States * Be a resident North Carolina and the county in which your live for at least 30 days prior to the election * Be 18 years of age by the day of the next general election * Have your rights of citizenship restored if you have been convicted of a felony * Not be registered to vote in any other county or state"

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blvrbystate.htm

To me, that means that as long as your of age by the general, you can vote in the primary. Seems to be different for every state though.

2/13/2008 10:28:12 PM

I actually did vote for McCain in 2000 primary. I am a registered independent, though.

2/13/2008 10:35:51 PM

Quote :

"I am shocked that anyone does not see McCain for the pandering politician that he is. He always has and always will say whatever it takes to be popular. So the fact that he is "going back" on things should not be surprising. This is why alot of people who call themselves "true conservatives" absolutely HATE him. He talks like he is conservative and stuff but then he stabs conservatives in the back so that the media and liberals will love him for it. He has always been like this."

Woot.

2/13/2008 11:00:37 PM

all politicians pander, its nothing new.

2/13/2008 11:01:19 PM

Quote :

"He always has and always will say whatever it takes to be popular."

While the rest of your post may have a point, this goes directly against what you are trying to prove. If he really cared about making people like him (before he started his 2008 presidential run, anyway), would he not try to make his own party (the people with the most influence on his political career) like him? Doesn't the fact that he is hated by so many extreme conservatives show that he really doesn't care about public opinion, and cares more about doing what he believes regardless of who he pisses off in the process?

I'm not trying to say he's perfect by any means, and as a moderate I really dislike all this pandering and flip-flopping he's had to do in the attempt to satisfy the extreme conservative nutjobs of his party, but to say that he's always cared about being popular is just nonsense.

[Edited on February 13, 2008 at 11:08 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2008 11:06:20 PM

Im no mccain fan, but I guess ill have to vote for him to keep out the socialists.

2/13/2008 11:16:24 PM

^^ it is fairly simple really.

1.) McCain says non-conservative media placating garbage to damage W as much as possible a few years back. Ostensibly no harm since he wasn't in the thick of a primary. He had no interest in making "right-wing nutjobs" like myself happy back then, he was too busy becoming a media darling. Increases his name recognition and lays foundation for national election. Gets people like you on his side. Plus gives him warm fuzzies to continue his petty grudge match against W. McCain is known for keeping a grudge and writing nasty letters, swearing etc... in short hardball.

2.) Now in primary time he is a "conservative" and a party loyalist allegedly. So he needs to be popular among republicans, many of which hold beliefs like myself more or less, so he champions the same causes he has been an obstructionist against. Tax cuts, conservative judges, party loyality. He assumes that we will just forget McCain Feingold, his amnesty bill with Teddy, etc... Not a word about global warming in front of CPAC.

Pandering is not trying to be popular with everyone at once. It is the pursuit of selective popularity according to the needs of the here and now.

I find this deplorable because I can find no way to respect the man, no way to trust him because I know when the going gets tough he may well just flip flop so he can have a cozy interview on the Sunday morning shows.

All of this said, I'll probably vote for him in the general election. I think Obama will trounce him. The only chance we have is with HRC. As Rush said,

Quote :

"Rush Keep her in it so we can win it "

[Edited on February 14, 2008 at 12:11 AM. Reason : ^indeed.]

2/14/2008 12:11:02 AM

I'll just come out and say it.

What, pray tell, since 2002 has McCain truly been maverick about? You always hear that word associated with him.

It's like how you always hear about Hillary Clinton's experience--usually without even so much as a wink or a nudge--but that's for a separate thread I suppose.

2/14/2008 12:38:44 AM

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/14/america/intel.php

Quote :

""We always supported allowing the CIA to use extra measures," McCain said. "I believe waterboarding is illegal and should be banned.""

Back then he was against torture. Now he's for torture. Make up your mind you old hack!

2/14/2008 9:35:18 AM

He sounds consistent to me. It sounds like a badly worded bill...

Quote :

""We said in our law," McCain said after casting his vote, "that we would allow the CIA to use additional techniques that were not in violation of the anti-torture convention, that were not in violation of the Geneva Conventions, that were not in violation of the Detainee Treatment Act.""

2/14/2008 10:52:48 AM

What everybody on this board fails to realize is that there is a distinction between what constitutes torture and what consitutes cruel, unhuman, and degrading treatment.

In the US, it is illegal for the CIA to use torture and while there is a law condemning the use of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment, there are no criminal sanctions against it.

McCain understands that there is controversy here and in fact he was the one pushing for making cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment illegal. Unfortunately he couldn't get the backing to attach criminal sanctions. The US entered a reservation and understanding to the Treaty Against Torture that effectively created a loop hole for cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment.

Bush admin and CIA argue waterboarding is cruel, inhuman, and degrading and therefore legal and McCain argues that it is torture. THAT IS WHAT ALL THE CONTROVERSY IS ABOUT.

There is no conflict in his reasoning just in your understanding of the law.

2/14/2008 11:07:55 AM

2/14/2008 4:01:03 PM

Wow if it's on teh intarnets it must be true!!1!!!

2/14/2008 4:23:54 PM

so i hear its gonna be mccain/romney now which makes me way happier cause if it woulda been mccain/preacher i woulda had to vote dem

[Edited on February 14, 2008 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ^just like that bullshit spam email saying obama is a muslum]

2/14/2008 4:25:09 PM

2/14/2008 4:53:45 PM

2/14/2008 5:24:52 PM

Obama may be a lot of things but I'm happy he's a Christian at least.

2/14/2008 5:44:21 PM

Awesome!

I mean, Pat Buchanon and a bunch of quotes taken out of context clearly have shown me that Obama is the right candidate.

Hey can you guys cut and paste some more? That seems to be really effective.

2/14/2008 6:30:04 PM

^^

2/14/2008 7:04:47 PM

Latley, I have been turned off by Hillary's attitude. Calling Obama a plagarist just seems a bit desperate. So I am going back and re-thinking my position on John McCain. Even now, there's still a lot of things I like about him.

1) Lowering Health Care Expenditures by Expanding HSAs and making Patients more Responcible for their Care. He's also proposing expanding Insurance coverage by providing all individuals with a $2,500 tax credit.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm
This isn't the best plan, but at least it's better than Obama's.

2) Slowing Global Climate Change through Cap and Trade programs. See McCain-Lieberman.

3) Maintaining and expanding our presense in Iraq to help create a stable country. You can search posts, I never wanted the war either and it sucks we are there. But I also don't think it's a good idea to leave a mess behind. That will not only be unfair to the Iraqis and the rest of the region, it could also be bad for the US, by breeding ill-will that could translate to more direct attacks on the United States.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/fdeb03a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

Of course, he doesn't say where new troops will come from. I mean, we're already streched to the limit. We will either have to give up some of our current military commitments (maybe pull out of South Korea), pay soilders more money to attract more new recruits, or start a draft. More details here would be nice.

These are my primary issues and he scores well on all three (not perfect though). I also like the fact that he supports lower trade barriers (which voting record backs up). So if Obama gets the nomination, I might just vote for McCain. Of course, Obama might still convince me. I hate being on the fence.

2/20/2008 1:02:55 PM

Face it, money from the republican party comes with strings for your arms and legs right now.
I hate it but it does, i too liked McCain.. but right now he's brown nosing and i don't like it at all.

2/20/2008 1:20:02 PM

^ ditto. If I vote for him, it will be in hopes that all this pandering was an act. It's obviously not the best reason to vote for someone, but I suppose it's better than voting for someone because they can shoot 3 pointers.

2/20/2008 2:28:32 PM