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GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just because we can't have all the freedom we want doesn't mean we should shun the freedom we can actually get. "


Huh? This says exactly zero to the quote to which you were responding:

Quote :
"you can't be anti-immigration and pro-free markets"


That's it. That's all that can be said. You can't be anti-immigration and pro-free-market. The closest you can get is being "anti-government and anti-brown-people." That's not libertarianism. It isn't even really conservatism.

I'll assume what you meant was, "I can be happy with any free market reform I can get," which is about as much benefit of the doubt as I can give you, even though it's also horse shit. How many times have we seen you complain about one piece of freedom not going far enough to satisfy your (pretty far out there) vision of an ideal world?

Quote :
"When people cross borders they don't all of a sudden lose their political ideology, religion, culture, heritage, etc. They are just in a different place. They will make the new place like their old place, in general."


Of course. You'll recall how the US is currently 20% like sub-Saharan Africa, for example, or how much of the US is identical to Germany, Italy, and Ireland. No shit, I visited Milwaukee a couple of years ago and it was totally indistinguishable from Poland.

Quote :
" Over time, they influence political climate and market regulation, among many other things. "


Other things that "influence the political climate and market regulation," and should therefore be banned:

1) Young people not having enough respect for their elders
2) Our parents getting old
3) Us getting old(er)
4) The realization that what we've been doing hasn't worked out so great
5) Political scandals
6) Some politicians being more charismatic than others
7) Corporate scandals
8) The entire economy taking a gigantic shit on itself because of shit white people did at the height of Hispanic immigration
9) The steady development and progress of human thought
10) Technology advancing

How exactly do you see the world? Do you really think people are desperately trying to come to the US, at risk of life and limb and all their money, just so they can turn the US into the same shit-hole they just escaped? Do you think there are countless immigrants working for illegally low wages as part of some grand reverse psychology scheme to increase the minimum wage?

7/2/2014 6:36:36 PM

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Holy fuck TULIPlovr is a fucking idiot.

He's so stupid, he probably *still* believes invading Iraq in 2003 was a good idea.

7/2/2014 10:17:19 PM

Smath74
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^this guy is good at throwing around insults. very persuasive debating technique.

7/2/2014 11:35:34 PM

Smath74
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Quote :
"Someone tell these dumb rednecks who are chanting "Impeach Obama" at this stupid bus rally that Obama deports more people than Bush did and is known in other nations as the "Deporter in Chief"

fucking idiot rednecks"

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117412/deportations-under-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants

7/2/2014 11:47:58 PM

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^^I wasn't trying to debate with that post buddy.

[Edited on July 3, 2014 at 12:36 AM. Reason : If you wanna debate head on over to my Iraq thread. I debate there.]

7/3/2014 12:35:50 AM

moron
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Maybe they're saying impeach Obama for the Pakistani drone program...

7/3/2014 1:50:58 AM

Smath74
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Quote :
"TENS OF THOUSANDS of young families caught illegally crossing into the US from Mexico earlier this year — and subsequently released by the Obama administration — reportedly have failed to show up for required meetings with immigration agents."

Quote :
"Official: 70% of families from the immigration surge never showed up for follow-up appointments

WASHINGTON (AP) – Tens of thousands of young families caught crossing the border illegally earlier this year subsequently failed to meet with federal immigration agents, as they were instructed, the Homeland Security Department has acknowledged privately.

An official with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement revealed that about 70 percent of immigrant families the Obama administration had released into the U.S. never showed up weeks later for follow up appointments.

The ICE official made the disclosure in a confidential meeting at its Washington headquarters with immigration advocates participating in a federal working group on detention and enforcement policies. The Associated Press obtained an audio recording of Wednesday's meeting and separately interviewed participants.

On the recording obtained by the AP, the government did not specify the total number of families released into the U.S. since October. Since only a few hundred families have already been returned to their home countries and limited U.S. detention facilities can house only about 1,200 family members, the 70 percent figure suggests the government released roughly 41,000 members of immigrant families who subsequently failed to appear at federal immigration offices.

The official, who was not identified by name on the recording obtained by the AP, also said final deportation had been ordered for at least 860 people traveling as families caught at the border since May but only 14 people had reported as ordered.

In a statement, ICE spokeswoman Gillian Christensen did not respond to questions from the AP about the newly disclosed figures. Instead, she said the agency was committed to increasing its capacity to detain and quickly deport families who crossed the border illegally.

The AP reported in June that the administration would not say publicly how many immigrant families from Central America caught crossing into the U.S. it had released in recent months or how many of those subsequently reported back to the government after 15 days as directed. The AP noted that senior U.S. officials directly familiar with the issue, including at the Homeland Security Department and White House, had dodged the answer on at least seven occasions over two weeks, alternately saying that they did not know the figure or didn't have it immediately at hand.

The Homeland Security Department's public affairs office during the same period did not answer roughly a dozen requests for the figures.

More than 66,000 immigrants traveling as families, mostly mothers and young children, have been apprehend at the border since the start of the budget year in October. Nearly 60,000 of those immigrants are from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala and cannot be immediately repatriated, so the government has been releasing them into the U.S. and telling them to report within 15 days to the nearest Immigrations and Customs Enforcement offices.

At the meeting, the ICE official acknowledged the no-show figures while explaining the administration's decision in June to open a temporary detention center for families in Artesia, New Mexico. A second immigration jail in Texas was later converted for families and can house about 530 people. A third such detention center will open in Texas later this year. Before the new facility in Artesia, the government had room for fewer than 100 people at its only family detention center in Pennsylvania.

Immigration advocates have complained that the new detention centers were punishing immigrants who ultimately may win lawful asylum claims to remain in the U.S. In the meeting, they also questioned whether immigration officials had clearly and properly instructed immigrants to meet with federal agents within 15 days.

The ICE official said it was necessary to detain families to ensure they didn't vanish into the U.S. He encouraged advocacy groups to help find ways to ensure that immigrants reported to federal agents as ordered so the government could begin processing their cases, including any requests to remain in the U.S. legally."

9/26/2014 9:40:44 AM

Smath74
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/26/dod-planning-to-let-illegal-immigrants-enlist/

9/26/2014 2:11:12 PM

aaronburro
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If true, it would be pretty damning

9/27/2014 12:06:42 AM

GrumpyGOP
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I'm technically an illegal immigrant right now. The Peace Corps lady in charge of getting my work visa renewed has been "really busy" and failed to get around to it, so for the past couple of weeks I've been living and working in Benin illegally. Is it a coincidence that I've been making a lot of Mexican food at my house during that time? I think not.

Personally, I just feel for the Beninese guy whose job I took because I was willing to work for next to nothing. And you know that my presence here is undermining the culture and political environment. Soon, people will have to press "1" for French when navigating automated phone services. (Of course, after Fon, Goun, Yoruba, Bariba, Nati, Dendi, Adja, Peuhl, Hausa, all of the numbers are taken so there isn't even a spot for English)

My presence has caused the crime rate to go up in my area. That's mostly been people attempting to break into my house, but still. Direct correlation: illegal immigrant = crime.

Because I terrorize the local children when they annoy me, and intend to bring Cuban cigars with me back to the states, I am also a terrorist and drug mule.

9/29/2014 5:17:45 AM

Smath74
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/federal-judge-temporarily-blocks-obama-immigration-executive-action/

2/17/2015 12:58:35 AM

thegoodlife3
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bet the right won't label that judge an "activist judge"

2/17/2015 12:32:05 PM

rjrumfel
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Activist judge is activist.

Just this time it's on the right side of the aisle and not the left.

2/17/2015 12:58:37 PM

Shrike
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I just don't get what the GOP is thinking on immigration. They can't win a national election without minority votes, that's just math. Yet here they are, once against falling into a trap of their own design when this DHS funding runs out. This is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog, with Boehner playing his part to placate the extreme elements of his party just to keep a job he can't honestly want anymore. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad and ultimately damaging to the nation.

[Edited on February 17, 2015 at 3:46 PM. Reason : :]

2/17/2015 3:46:26 PM

moron
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The GOP looks like they're running a bunch of duds now, but who do the democrats have to capitalize on this? I don't really see any good candidates. People keep saying Warren but she seems way to polarizing and "elitist" to me.

2/17/2015 4:07:43 PM

dtownral
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warren is elitist? how? she is the only one speaking up for the middle class.

2/17/2015 5:00:10 PM

Shrike
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Just get used to the idea of (first) First Gentleman Bill Clinton.

2/17/2015 5:10:21 PM

moron
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^^ i've seen a few speeches where she's basically mocking gun owners. She needs to realize gun ownership isn't a legal issue for these people, it's an identity issue. Democrats need to acknowledge gun ownership as an identity if they want to make any traction on gun control.

2/17/2015 5:35:15 PM

y0willy0
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warren is leading clinton in iowa and NH polls

clinton is probably hiding due to another health problem

2/17/2015 7:02:38 PM

rjrumfel
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Quote :
"They can't win a national election without minority votes, that's just math."


They think they are doing what their constituents voted them in to do.

2/17/2015 7:38:17 PM

0EPII1
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https://www.facebook.com/omeletocom/videos/10154398192134494

There has *got to be* a better solution. This is just inhumane for the kids involved due to no fault of their own.

So sad... law-abiding residents being thrown into jail, and then possible deportation.

If Obama really can unilaterally give them permits/licenses overnight, why isn't he doing it?

8/3/2016 10:13:23 PM

Big4Country
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^Yeah that is kind of strange. I guess a good compromise would be to let them stay if they can get into college and send their parents back to where they came from once their child turns 18. We have to shut down the border though and change the 14th amendment. You shouldn't get a citizenship to the USA and access to government programs unless at least one of your parents was born here. That is why people have issues with illegal immigration. If LBJ hadn't gotten the great society programs passed I don't think quite as many people would care.

As for the guy saying it wouldn't be a good thing if people didn't want to come to America. I disagree. If that ever happens it probably means the rest of the world finally got its shit together. America has a lot of problems right now, but I'll take it over anywhere in the middle east, Africa, Central America, South America, and most places in Asia. People come here because their countries suck worse than ours.

8/10/2016 7:59:50 PM

thegoodlife3
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care to explain why you didn't include anywhere in Europe in your list?

8/10/2016 8:04:58 PM

Big4Country
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^No doubt Europe has its problems too. That is part of the reason why GB pulled out of the EU. They were sick of the Eastern Europeans and Muslims being able to comes to their nation so easily. A friend of mine from London said there are some pretty shitty places over there because of all the Eastern Europeans who invaded the city. He's not the only person I know who said they have no desire to ever live in England again.

8/10/2016 8:13:19 PM

NyM410
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Just stop. Your friend is a god damn moron. London is ridiculously nice and safe, though like every big city it has areas to avoid. Per capita it's much safer than any majority white shithole in the rural South though.

Brexit had literally nothing to do with Muslim immigrants (though you did mention Eastern European which did have some impact in the more blue collar areas).

8/10/2016 8:18:47 PM

Big4Country
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^My friend is a carpenter, so he is one of those blue collar people. He's pretty liberal when it comes to American politics though.

8/10/2016 8:24:44 PM

NyM410
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Well tell him that London is safer now than in any time in its 2000 year history. Because it's true.

8/10/2016 9:23:00 PM

Str8BacardiL
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I don't think immigrants come here for free handouts. They come here to work. The guy that has been mowing my grass for 3 years speaks very little English and only takes cash. He does it for $40 a visit and is more reliable than most peoples snot nosed teenagers who would want more money and do a half assed job.

8/11/2016 12:39:52 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
" You shouldn't get a citizenship to the USA and access to government programs unless at least one of your parents was born here."


In your mind, how does this work out? The kid gets born to immigrants and then stays on welfare for its entire life? No. It grows up and gets a job and pays into the system like the rest of us.

8/11/2016 1:34:19 PM

moron
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Quote :
" We have to shut down the border though and change the 14th amendment. You shouldn't get a citizenship to the USA and access to government programs unless at least one of your parents was born here. "


LOL

we should change the 14th amendment only if we can also change the 2nd amendment too. How about that?

8/11/2016 1:37:44 PM

Big4Country
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They don't come for handouts? Then why do pregnant women from central America travel here? I read an article a while back about how hospitals near Mexico lose millions because of people crossing the border and then not paying their hospital bill. The one Mexican woman interviewed said her baby would have a better life since she illegally crossed the border and had it here. Now the baby can collect from the government.

8/11/2016 1:39:21 PM

moron
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^ yeah border states have unique challenges. But immigrants don't come here for handouts. They come here fleeing oppression and poverty. Immigrants are the MOST likely group to succeed at starting small businesses.

And are you sure the report wasn't talking about Americans going to mexico for cheaper healthcare and prescription drugs?

[Edited on August 11, 2016 at 1:41 PM. Reason : ]

8/11/2016 1:41:02 PM

NyM410
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Quote :
"The one Mexican woman interviewed said her baby would have a better life since she illegally crossed the border and had it here. Now the baby can collect from the government."


Well fuck me. If the one Mexican woman said it then it must hold true for an entire demographic. David Duke is a Trump supporter so clearly B4C is a nationalistic white supremacist.

8/11/2016 2:04:34 PM

Big4Country
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Quote :
"In your mind, how does this work out? The kid gets born to immigrants and then stays on welfare for its entire life? No. It grows up and gets a job and pays into the system like the rest of us."


No it works like this, the baby is born and then the family is sent back to the country they came from without the baby being a US Citizen. The baby can't get WIC, Medicaid, EBT, or any other welfare. If life in central America sucks then they can fill out the forms and come here legally which is ok with me. It's not rocket science, or racism to not award US citizenships to babies with no parents from the US.

[Edited on August 11, 2016 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

8/11/2016 3:28:28 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"Then why do pregnant women from central America travel here?"


A lot of times, it's so they and their kids won't die in childbirth:

Quote :
"James Dickson, the administrator and CEO of Copper Queen Community Hospital in Bisbee, Ariz., located five miles from the Mexico border, told us that his hospital hasn't offered obstetrical services in a few years, but when it did, he did not see anything like what Graham is describing. "We had some" people who came to have a baby in the U.S., he said, but their goal was not citizenship. It was higher quality treatment or specific services that were unavailable in Mexico."


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/aug/06/lindsey-graham/illegal-immigrants-anchor-babies-birthright/

Mr. Dickson doesn't seem to be overwhelmed with anchor babies. Neither is anybody else.

The other answer is: they don't, generally. There's no data to suggest that significant numbers of people are coming here to have babies with a view towards getting them citizenship and "benefits." For one thing, the benefits on offer are pretty limited. They might be able to enroll in WIC, which is hardly bankrupting us. Medicaid for the kid, too, though for that they'd have to keep living in the US. And having a US-born baby doesn't mean you get to stay: tens of thousands have been deported in spite of having an American brat. The kid can't sponsor its parents for citizenship until it's 21. Assuming the parents stay here that whole time, they're working and buying shit -- meaning they're paying taxes, all the while unable to receive the vast majority of government benefits.

8/11/2016 3:40:54 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"No it works like this, the baby is born and then the family is sent back to the country they came from without the baby being a US Citizen."


No, you chucklefuck, I was asking about what you thought how the "anchor baby" situation worked. You seem to be laboring under the impression that these babies are leeching off the government their whole lives.

Quote :
"If life in central America sucks then they can fill out the forms and come here legally "


Except they can't. This is the thing that immigration fools never seem to get: they can't come in legally. The limits we put on the number of people who can move in legally each year are positively draconian. In the case of people from Latin America, those few spots are pretty much claimed for years in advance by relatives of US citizens. If you're some average Jose without a close relative in the states, you can't move in legally.

Do you fucking retards think that illegals pay thousands to coyotes, swim across rivers, and walk across deserts is because they're too lazy to fill out forms? No. If we'd let them in legally, the vast majority would come in legally.

8/11/2016 3:45:59 PM

Big4Country
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^Well if they up the numbers allowed in the US then fine, but babies with no parents from American still shouldn't get a citizenship just for being born on this end of the border. It's not our duty to solve the world's problems and it's not our fault that pretty much every country on the planet sucks worse than the USA.

8/11/2016 4:27:17 PM

NyM410
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It's very hard not falling into just responding with ad hominems to you.

I don't find myself saying that about many others on here.

8/11/2016 4:38:08 PM

aaronburro
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^ You rang?

So, Imma try and point this in a different direction. It's probably largely due to my own ignorance, but I've never really heard much from anyone about actual solutions to the problems in our immigration system. I hear "Comprehensive Immigration Reform," but all I ever really see is "let's give everyone amnesty and keep the same laws we already have." Like I said, I'm probably missing the actual policy proposals, but what are those proposals, beyond amnesty?

Even better, how would YOU fix it, ignoring the issue of amnesty? What do you think needs to change?



I'll start it off and say that the policy of a yearly quota of visas for each country, where the quota is the same across all countries, is absurd. For fuck's sake, why does India, with over a billion people, have the same number of visa spots as some tiny ass island in the Pacific?

8/12/2016 7:42:46 PM

NeuseRvrRat
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a welfare state with open borders is unsustainable

8/12/2016 7:52:13 PM

Big4Country
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^Exactly.

^^Well you can build a wall like Trump wants to do and tighten up border security for one thing. Then you can quit giving a US citizenship to babies born in the US that have no parents who were born in the US or who became naturalized citizens. Upping work visas wouldn't hurt either. Most Americans don't mind people coming here from other nations, we just want them to do it legally. And as I said, it isn't our duty to solve the world's problems. People need to stay in their own nations even though they generally suck. Also, I have no problem with our government spending money helping other nations after a disaster like the earthquake in Haiti.

8/12/2016 9:04:56 PM

aimorris
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I can't believe he's real.

8/12/2016 10:34:38 PM

aaronburro
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^^ What does building a wall and ending birthright citizenship do to fix the fact that it takes people from some countries almost 2 decades to enter the US legally? Massive illegal immigration isn't the problem; it's a giant symptom of the problem. Or do you honestly see no problem with our immigration system, other than the fact that so many people are completely ignoring our laws?

8/13/2016 12:10:57 AM

thegoodlife3
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B4C's immigration policy is basically, "tough break nigga, there's always FUBU"

8/13/2016 3:09:18 AM

Big4Country
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^^Like I said, just because we're the greatest country on the planet doesn't mean we can open the flood gates to the world. You shouldn't get a citizenship just because your pregnant mother was on this side of the border when you were born. But yes, more work visas for migrant works would be fine. The problem isn't the system, the problem is our country is the best country in the world and they rest pretty much suck. We would be illegally sneaking into Mexico right now, if it was a great place to work and live, but we aren't because America is still awesome.

8/13/2016 9:25:38 AM

A Tanzarian
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pride goeth before a fall

8/13/2016 11:28:55 AM

moron
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You know anchor babies are a teeny tiny percentage of births? It's dumb to change the constitution for what is a non-issue. This would result in an immeasurable change to the country. Not to mention the country was founded as a nation if immigrants (it's why we have this in our constitution) and has derived strength from being a nation of immigrants and the best path forward is to embrace this. Being too homogeneous is what allows political extremists to take hold-- our diversity is literally the only thing stopping the madman fascist trump from being president.

Considering how few "anchor babies" there actually are, you'd have to be dumb or racist to be so up in arms about the issue, if you even want to call it an issue.

8/13/2016 12:40:31 PM

ScubaSteve
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Beware actual proposals to improve the immigration system in this post. B4c quit reading here since our immigrant system is perfect and America fuck yea and all that.

One option is to automate lots of application process. Use Watson or similar to do the grunt work on the applications. Background checks and financial checks.

Have profession quotas tied to the unemployment rate of that profession.

Have a second general quota with proportional application by origin country pop size for us population growth.. keep us pop growth low but above zero. we don't want to become Italy or Japan.. like the Fed does with money... but this is with people.

Just random ideas.

[Edited on August 13, 2016 at 1:02 PM. Reason : .]

8/13/2016 12:59:49 PM

OopsPowSrprs
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Aspies will be one of the first people turned into fuel in Trump's America. Before the illegal immigrants who at least contribute to GDP.

8/13/2016 1:30:46 PM

Big4Country
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Quote :
"Considering how few "anchor babies" there actually are, you'd have to be dumb or racist to be so up in arms about the issue, if you even want to call it an issue."


It's actually not that hard. You just have to amend the constitution so that it says people born here who have no parent from the US are not given a citizenship. Then yes, increase work visas and make naturalization quicker.

8/13/2016 3:07:29 PM

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