i have a couple of Sun monitors from the ncsu surplus right now

was thinking of getting a new one or two - these still work fairly well but I think it's time for a change.

my vid card has an HDMI input so I was debating whether to get a $300-350 32" LCD TV and hook that up, or go for something else.

i do graphics work, game, and watch a lot of tv on my PC.

i haven't done much research at all - what are your thoughts?

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 1:15 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2008 1:14:58 PM

that size is probably going to be too big at close range

10/20/2008 1:18:29 PM

how big are those apple and dell monster LCDs?

and yeha, i was thinking of leaving one CRT hooked up and hook up something larger as a secondary monitor for tv/movies/maybe games if it's decent enough

10/20/2008 1:21:01 PM

you arent going to get anything 1080p in the 32" range for your price range

which is what you are going to need to use it as a monitor

Quote :

"how big are those apple and dell monster LCDs?"

30" for $1000+

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM. Reason : 

10/20/2008 1:32:49 PM

Price Range?
Size Range?
Uses?
How much do you work with graphics?

10/20/2008 4:13:11 PM

meh forget it

price range - minimal, of course
size range - don't really care. bigger the better
uses - already mentioned them - graphics, gaming, and tv/movies - will leave one CRT hooked up and this would be secondary
work with graphics - a lot

10/20/2008 4:55:07 PM

you're giving no real requirement and want an answer you'll like? at least give something to work with.

10/20/2008 6:17:45 PM

lol i don't have any requirements

is it still worth sticking with CRTs for graphics?

10/20/2008 7:31:51 PM

Quote :

"is it still worth sticking with CRTs for graphics?"

It depends. Some lcd monitors are better than CRTs and some are still worse. It is mostly a personal preference since image qualities are mostly similar.

This is a good thread for an explanation of panel types and other terms. It also has a great recommendations for specific uses. I would stay away from TN panels for graphics, even though the last two under photo editing are TN panels. The rankings on the monitors in the multimedia and photo editing lists are for overall image quality.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 11:39 PM. Reason : :]

10/20/2008 11:31:53 PM

bttt

2/21/2009 12:20:41 AM

thx bobby

ok so i saw the tigerdirect deal this week on an mpva (or something like that, supposedly a good panel) panel for $200 but decided against it because of bad user reviews

do the good (non-TN) panels ever go on sale or are they ever affordable?

i'm watching 720p on my cheapo HP laptop and am pretty satisfied with the color it's able to put out watching a shitty HDTV 720p rip of lord of the rings. will i be satisfied with a cheapo LCD? surely they can't be worse than this laptop LCD, can they?

2/21/2009 12:48:57 AM

I picked up a 22" Samsung for <$200. I don't know why you would need something bigger than 24".

2/21/2009 11:42:02 AM

I'm about to order one of these:
http://tinyurl.com/bvhmjo

Dell 22" IPS panel. $300

2/21/2009 1:01:38 PM

Quote :

"Offers a horizontal and vertical viewing angle of 178° "

no way that is an IPS

that viewing angle is classic TN

2/21/2009 1:18:35 PM

they're supposedly lower-end IPS panels.

http://www.cnet.com.au/desktops/monitors/0,239029422,339294389,00.htm

2/21/2009 1:27:29 PM

Quote :

"no way that is an IPS that viewing angle is classic TN"

You are confused. TN viewing angles are 170 degrees or less on one or both dimensions. IPS and MVA/PVA panels are 176-178 degrees on both dimensions.

[Edited on February 21, 2009 at 2:06 PM. Reason : :]

2/21/2009 2:00:55 PM

will i be happy with these low-end monitors after using Sun CRTs or will i have to pay $texas?

2/25/2009 7:23:05 PM

http://www.buy.com/prod/westinghouse-26-inch-widescreen-1080p-lcd-monitor-1920x1200-hdmi-hdcp/q/loc/101/207540840.html


BB AA MMMMMMMMMMMMM

26" 1080p monitor for 250. My friend bought one of these and I think theyre as good as the basic dells...only huge.

2/25/2009 10:26:20 PM

should i get this or that ^?

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/154591
Hanns-G HG-281DPB 28 inch LCD Monitor w/ HDCP $349.99 Free Shipping, Feb. 25 8 AM


Newegg has the well-reviewed Hanns-G HG-281DPB 28" Widescreen LCD Monitor w/ HDCP for a low $349.99. Free Shipping. Tax in CA, NJ, TN, PR.

1920x1200; 3ms; 800:1; 500nits; HDMI & VGA

2/26/2009 9:11:41 AM

Quote :

"will i be happy with these low-end monitors after using Sun CRTs or will i have to pay $texas?"

CRTs are better at color reproduction than LCDs. There are different panel types for LCDs though and the extent of the difference between a CRT and an LCD will vary by the panel type. Aside from the 2209wa i listed, all of the LCDs listed here are TN panels, which aren't very good when it comes to color reproduction and viewing angles. However, they the least expensive to produce. So most LCDs are TN panels. And they meet the needs of most just fine.

The 2209wa is also the only 22" ips i'm aware of and the least expensive ips panel i'm aware of. If you want to go bigger + a better panel type (closer to CRT), it's gonna cost you. If you just want a big LCD and aren't that worried about having truer color and having the color shift depending on your eye level, then definitely go with a TN panel. It will save you a lot of money. And honestly, it may meet your standards just fine.

2/26/2009 7:28:24 PM

i went to best buy and picked up a samsung syncmaster t260 for $427 just to see if i'd like the common panel out there or i'd need more



how could i find out if this was a TN panel or something else? i fell in love with the size and the colors are really vivid too.

the only thing i think i don't like is that when i go to watch 1080p or 720p movies, if i change the resolution of the monitor to match the resolution of the video, i get a bigger picture but the quality is slightly lower than if i just leave the resolution at 1920x1200 and watch it. but when i do that, i have like an inch more of black margins so it's a lose-lose. i don't really know much about HD besides the fact that i watch it and love it lol

so anyways, if i like this screen, will i like that 28" one for $350?

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2009 7:45:47 PM

at 26" 1900x1200 looks pretty big. with a 28" you'll be left wanting for a better resolution.

(I have a 26", and suddenly i'm unhappy with a max res of 1900x1200)

2/26/2009 9:02:10 PM

good point

so complicated lol

fuck my life


MAKE IT EASY SOMEBODY

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 9:12 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2009 9:07:45 PM

Quote :

"It depends. Some lcd monitors are better than CRTs and some are still worse. It is mostly a personal preference since image qualities are mostly similar."

No LCD has better color accuracy than a half-decent CRT. Plain and simple.

Quote :

"so anyways, if i like this screen, will i like that 28" one for $350?"

No. The budget big panels are all SUPER shitty in terms of brightness, contrast and color.

I have a 28" Viewsonic (1920x1200), and it's right at the egde of what I would consider acceptable for graphics work and movie watching. It's still 6-700 bucks at newegg.

2/26/2009 9:10:49 PM

hmm maybe i've never had a good CRT then - because i'm in love with this samsung's colors

i mean i haven't done any graphics stuff on it yet but it looks amazing in game, and just in general usage

2/26/2009 9:13:49 PM

you are confusing brightness with accuracy.

first, you are using old-as-shit Sun monitors, which likely have lost a great deal of their bulb life.
second, have you ever used a color calibrator on those CRT's to get them accurate?
third, vividness is not accuracy. I can vividly display 4 colors, but that doesn't help me with the other hundred million or so.

color calibrate both monitors, then run a comparison test. The limitations on LCD's become apparent pretty quickly. My Samsung monitors here at work don't even have the same color from the top of the screen to the bottom.

2/26/2009 10:15:43 PM

I love the desk real estate since buying my 24" Samsung LCD, but really do miss my CRT's consistency.

2/26/2009 10:21:33 PM

FUCK YOU NOEN I HATE YOU

bursting my frikking bubble lol

i am comparing the color consistency now to my graphics work and i can see what you were talking about now haha. compared to print, it's so much brighter on screen, though i'm sure i can adjust that. but compared to the top of the screen and bottom of the screen, the same duplicated colors are showing up differently.

i guess i just fell in love with it at first sight but now it's wearing off. i don't think LCDs are the way to go anymore if this is going to be the problem with all of them.

maybe i should buy a new CRT for graphics and gaming and buy a cheapo large LCD to watch movies on?

what are good CRTs? i may just get that 26" 250 LCD for movies and a nice new 21" CRT

[Edited on February 27, 2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason : .]

2/27/2009 10:59:38 AM

i'm so glad i don't do any graphics work or play games.

I can buy cheapo LCDs and it doesn't matter.

[Edited on February 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM. Reason : V whoops]

2/27/2009 12:34:46 PM

you can buy them too

2/27/2009 12:50:58 PM

^^ CRT's are, unfortunately, pretty dead.

There ARE good LCD's for graphics work. The Dell Ultrasharp monitors are very good, mid-range models that suffice for most design shops (WFP line).

Most Tier1 manufacturers have professional series monitors specifically for color accuracy and gamut ranges needed by designers. You will pay a little more for these, but the prices have gotten insanely lower over the past couple of years.

FWIW, a 22" Widescreen mid-range will run you about 240-280 bucks (see Dell's new LED backlit stuff, and their Ultrasharps, find some recent reviews to compare against).

A 22" Professional monitor is going to run 400-800 bucks (look for deals here, prices vary widely even for the same models)

Price goes up from there. Most decent 24" LCD's will still run you 400-500, with pro monitors being almost all upwards of a grande (last I checked was mid-08 though, so do some hunting)

2/27/2009 12:54:48 PM

Quote :

"first, you are using old-as-shit Sun monitors, which likely have lost a great deal of their bulb life."

Not even CRT projectors have bulbs, though the phosphors do decay with use. It's typically 10,000 hour half-life for CRT projection tubes which are a good order of magnitude brighter per unit area. I've never actually seen a CRT monitor with a half-life rating. You'd pretty much have to run one for years with a static white image and no screen saver. Also note that displaying blacks doesn't cause wear on a CRT, so it's not even directly comparable to LCD bulb life

2/27/2009 1:02:20 PM

^thanks for the tech info, I always wondered what actually LIT a crt. I'm mildly ashamed I didn't know that, as I've taken more than a few apart.

But I can tell you, without a doubt, that CRT's "dim" over time, and after 5-6 years, they simply can't produce clean whites anymore. I have two very high end CRT's at work that have this issue and they are both circa 2003 Sony models, but it's happened to every monitor I've ever used (and bothered to try and color calibrate).

2/27/2009 1:06:37 PM

The top of the line LCD's on the market is EIZO. They are quite pricey at about 1000 for a 20" model and I think their 24" is 1800, but if you do critical color work such as graphic design, printing, proofing, photography, etc. it's a must. You will see the difference right away as they support 10-14 bit color display. They beat even the best CRT's back in the day.

Dell ultrasharp monitors are also a good buy for color proofing and doing graphic design work, but due note that on default settings they over saturate the shit out of your color profile. The lastest WFP lines are PVA(or MVA) panels so they no longer have the nice IPS ones from the 2007, 2407, 3007 series. Nothing really wrong with PVA/MVA panels, but they do have a lower viewing angle and tend to have a slight color shift if looking at 45 degree's or sharper angles, but barely noticeable.

I have a set of PVA panels from Soyo that do a decent job and I think I got those for a little under 250 a piece last year. Great budget 24" panels and have been happy with what I paid for, although they are hardly a match to my 2408 dells. Contrast suck on the soyo's, but the color (after calibrated) look similar but the dell is much more vibrant, the grey's and black aren't as rich, but that's comparing a 200ish panel to a 650 panel.

Also to note, don't pay attention to brightness or contrast numbers on the boxes of anything, they aren't accurate at all. The soyo is suppose to display at 500 cd/m2 but really gets around 280 at max brightness and at that setting it washes everything out. My dell also can display pretty bright, but when you calibrate a monitor, you usually have the setting down to about 120 cd/m2 setting for proper color proofing (at least for photographic terms). The brighter the tube(s) are set at, the shorter the tubes will last. Right around the 200 cd/m2 is the best viewing brightness for a well light room, lower when in a dark room.

[Edited on February 27, 2009 at 2:43 PM. Reason : ]

2/27/2009 2:41:42 PM

^which Soyo models in particular?

2/27/2009 2:53:43 PM

^^I hope it's rebranded. Soyo generally dumps their glitzy, broken fucking refuse in various markets and then bounces without providing support in my experience.

[Edited on February 27, 2009 at 3:33 PM. Reason : *bitter*]

2/27/2009 3:30:14 PM

Quote :

"I have a set of PVA panels from Soyo that do a decent job and I think I got those for a little under 250 a piece last year. Great budget 24" panels and have been happy with what I paid for, although they are hardly a match to my 2408 dells."

You will never, ever see those panels again on the market. I remember those deals... and it was one of those "once in a lifetime" stories that nerd parents will one day tell their nerd children.

Buying an LCD based on the internal panel is a VERY risky proposition. It can be done and save you a few hundred bucks, but it takes a ton of research and potential headaches. Not to mention if anything ever happens to the thing, good luck on getting a replacement of the same quality.

2/27/2009 6:39:43 PM

ok - will these work?

for graphics work -
Dell UltraSharp 1909W Flat Panel Monitor - $169
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7540
Max Resolution: 1440 x 900 / 75 Hz
Image Contrast Ratio: 1000:1
Response Time: 5 ms
Pitch: 0.2835mm

for gaming/movies/documents/interwebs
Westinghouse L2610NW Widescreen LCD Monitor - $250
http://www.buy.com/prod/westinghouse-26-inch-widescreen-1080p-lcd-monitor-1920x1200-hdmi-hdcp/q/loc/101/207540840.html
Max Resolution: 1920 x 1200 / 60 Hz
Image Contrast Ratio: 3000:1
Response Time: 2 ms
Pitch: 0.287mm


Total comes out to $419 + S&H + taxes

you think the 19" won't be big enough for my taste or the resolution will be too crappy to work on? I *could* go with the UltraSharp 2009W 20-inch Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor with a 1680x1050 resolution for $229 instead, or i could just buy the westinghouse for now, save some more money, and then buy a good graphics monitor later.

[Edited on February 27, 2009 at 7:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2009 7:30:07 PM

fyi: the response time of that westinghouse is 5ms according to the link you provided.

2/27/2009 8:40:29 PM

I AM ON MY 4TH SOYO MONITOR IN 1 YEAR... DO NOT BUY SOYO... THEIR RMA PROCESS BLOWS, TOO.

2/27/2009 8:54:02 PM

I wouldn't buy the Westinghouse at all. It's a shitty monitor for movies and gaming.

I would recommend getting either the brand-spankin new Dell 2209WA - $299

or the Dell 2408WFP - $499

Quote :

"Dell quotes an 83 per cent coverage of the CIE1976 gamut — for reference, the 3008WFP weighs in at 117 per cent, and the 2709W and 2408WFP at 110 per cent of CIE1976."

Which is much higher than most mid-range LCD's. The average LCD has 55-65% coverage. Bargain monitors can be as low as 50%, or even below that.

You could also look at the Dell G2410, it's got promise (LED backlit), and is significantly less expensive than the 2408. But it literally launched yesterday, so I would wait until some reviews are in on it's accuracy.

If you can justify spending a bit more, the Dell 2709W - $629 seems like the perfect solution for you. It's a monitor that will pull both duties VERY well (graphics - casual), and it has 110% color gamut. Most importantly, Dell panels are built like tanks. My 2001FP lasted me almost 5 years, and I just sold it (it still works fine!), so you would likely be able to keep this thing through generations of computers.

the Samsung 275t and Dell 3008WFP are the next steps up, both around a thousand bucks and both way out of your price-range.

2/27/2009 9:18:20 PM

haha i sold my 2 2001fp's yesterday for $125 each. had them 5 years, too they were tanks but i could start to tell them being outdated next to new 24" monitors.

2/27/2009 9:36:11 PM

Quote :

"fyi: the response time of that westinghouse is 5ms according to the link you provided."

fuck - yeah they have both listed on the page haha how stupid

Quote :

"I wouldn't buy the Westinghouse at all. It's a shitty monitor for movies and gaming."

what's bad about it?

2/27/2009 11:21:19 PM

Quote :

"You will never, ever see those panels again on the market. I remember those deals... and it was one of those "once in a lifetime" stories that nerd parents will one day tell their nerd children."

Quote :

"I AM ON MY 4TH SOYO MONITOR IN 1 YEAR... DO NOT BUY SOYO... THEIR RMA PROCESS BLOWS, TOO."

Soyo generally dumps their glitzy, broken fucking refuse in various markets and then bounces without providing support in my experience.

I almost thought I was over-generalizing my personal experiences until these two comments

2/28/2009 1:57:09 AM

Quote :

"what's bad about it?"

Go read any of the hundred reviews posted on it.

Terrible color consistency
Ghosting problems
Terrible contrast ratio
Complete lack of inputs

2/28/2009 5:32:16 AM

i think i could game and do graphics on one main monitor - it's just that it would be nice to have a larger secondary one to watch movies and tv on so i can carry on working while i watch sometimes.

i looked at the 2209WA for $300 you suggested - i don't think i'd be happy with that vertical resolution (it.s 1680x1050)

then i looked at the 2408WFP and it looks nice, resolution is nice, but i figure if i'm spending $500 - might as well spend $630 and get something worthwhile.

dual monitors have sort of grown on me though - working on one while a video or something is going on the other screen.

what do you suggest i do besides make up my fucking insatiable mind and go for it? lol

3/1/2009 12:32:58 AM

why do you think you won't be happy with the 1050 resolution on a 22" screen? Remember, if the resolution stays constant and the screen gets bigger, the pixels have to be bigger to fill the screen. There is a point where you will notice the pixels are bigger. But there is also a point where you won't notice that the pixels are any smaller other than the fact that everything on the screen is smaller.

Your desktop would be pretty small w/ a 1200 resolution on a 22" screen. And you wouldn't be able to tell the pixels were any smaller. So, I could see not being happy with 1050 on a 24-26", but it's fine for most people on a 22". The extra real-estate from 1200 is nice, but if you end up with dual monitors, that shouldn't be an issue. And I'd prefer to keep my icons, taskbar, etc. at a reasonable size.

Quote :

"then i looked at the 2408WFP and it looks nice, resolution is nice, but i figure if i'm spending $500 - might as well spend $630 and get something worthwhile."

I'm not sure I follow that logic. So, if you're going to spend $500 (which is $72 more than the samsung you bought) to get a considerably better LCD, then you might as well shell out another 25% of the total cost to get a "worthwhile" monitor for $629? That's a big jump in cost.

I'm assuming you're referring to the 2709w from Dell. So for an additional $72 from the samsung to the 2408 you go from a TN to an MVA panel, you get the dell guarantee that you'll have no dead pixels or they'll exchange it, and you'll get a much better stand. Is the gain between those two proportional to the $129 increase from the 2408 to the 2709 or the $202 increase from the samsung to the 2709? The 2709 is the same resolution as the 24", which means the pixels will be bigger. That may not really be a big deal, but considering you mentioned that 1050 may not be good enough for a 22", you may want to think about that. It's still a 6ms response time. It is bigger, and it has more connections. Although, you mentioned that your video card had an hdmi input, so how important are the connections? What is the $129 leg up that the 2709 has over the 2408 for you? Why is the 2408 not "worthwhile?"


That being said, I would either A) get the 2408WFP and use it for everything.

or B) and this is what I personally would do because I prefer dual monitors; If you can live with it, get the 2209wa for graphics work for $300. Then I'd take that money I was already willing to spend and put it toward a larger, not as good LCD for watching movies and playing games on. The TNs are better for games generally because of the response times anyway. Plus, with your "movie watching" monitor, color reproduction and consistency is more of a want vs a need. And most likely, you'll be very happy with it. Your "needs" there seem to be size, resolution, and price. You're not going to get those 3 + great color reproduction/consistency for graphics work. But you can get those 3 + acceptable color reproduction/consistency for stuff other than graphics work.

That's my opinion anyway.


My 2209wa is supposed to arrive Tuesday. I'd be glad to let you come check it out. Depending on where you live, I'll even bring it to you so you can compare it to whatever else you have and try a game on it (i don't have any games installed).

3/1/2009 1:33:39 PM

I have a Westinghouse L2410NM that I got a year ago on sale. If you can track one down, BUY IT. It was recently on sale for 200 at tigerdirect, which was a deal.

It's actually an MVA panel and one of the best looking displays I've ever seen. Probably one of the cheaper MVA panels you can find

3/1/2009 2:34:12 PM

i have the 2408 and it owns real hard.

3/1/2009 3:10:30 PM

is this guy bullshitting?

http://tinyurl.com/aby75w

says dell told him it's normal to have dead pixels

but that price isn't so bad if i can buy this thing and have dell replace it for a new one because of a dead pixel

3/3/2009 2:27:24 PM