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 Message Boards » » "Democrat party credibility watch" Thread? Page 1 ... 35 36 37 38 [39] 40, Prev Next  
horosho
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Yes Dems are able to appeal to more groups of people but they accomplish that mostly through dishonesty and people are on to them. Its easy to appeal to almost everyone when you just lie and pretend to stand for everything while standing for almost nothing. Republicans appeal to a smaller base but they are honest to that base so its not going anywhere.

For example, democrats carry people who want to address climate change AND they people who want to keep fracking. Their climate policy is to reduce pollution in oil and gas wells. This will drive up energy prices without even stopping climate change. Liberal leaders around the world have all accepted 2.5 degrees of warming. People have not. Many people knew that but the bar for this election was literally acknowledging the existence of racism or climate change. That was enough to beat Trump (barely) but is not sustainable.

Joe Biden also managed to carry BLM while running on a policy of INCREASING police funding. Its inevitable that this strategy can win elections but cannot sustain support. Eventually, they will run out of people to swindle.

He's never going to unite polar opposites and the party has multiple bases that are at odds with each other. I don't know if you've been paying attention but democrats are joining Kasich and Clyburn to blame the left for losing house races. They are also saying Pelosi needs to step back so someone more moderate can be speaker. Party of nothing.

11/12/2020 4:43:47 PM

horosho
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Basically people vote democrat because they feel like there are no other options. A huge demexit is coming.
Quote :
"To act like it's not the majority party is nonsense. The popular vote IS something. The fact that it doesn't matter sucks ass and should be changed but you have to be republican to act like it should be ignored. The Dem party has been the majority party almost uninterrupted for a decades but bc of artifacts of how state borders were drawn, they are frequently the minority party in the US govt. The senate is wildly undemocratic, by design, but even then the largest state was 12x the population of the smallest. California is 66x larger than Wyoming by population. State senators in CA got a more votes than the entire state of Wyoming."

Its the constitution. I'm not saying its ideal. I think its awful but the reality is that democrats often celebrate it and worship the white supremacists who wrote it. Regardless of what we like, and what is democratic, the constitution is what we have. I'd love a revolution but until we have one, this is what we have to go by as official and there is no official popular vote. Its literally just something the media makes up.

I live In California and realize that but democrats don't even want to change the constitution. What they want to do is add more states so that it favors them. We have almost all democrats by the waywhich makes it easier to see the different types of democrats. There are great democrats but they are in the minority. Gavin Newsome opposed rent control in California and the GOP endorsed his decision. All of the republicans and shitty democrats teamed up to beat the proposition. The divide is increasingly about class and the democratic party is a coastal elite party.

11/12/2020 4:54:07 PM

Geppetto
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Can you qualify how people are on to Democrats and ready to leave them given those same people came out about 10 million more than for the man you just called the Michael Jordan of politics?

Can you come up with a valid reason states such as Alaska and Hawaii should have been added but not DC and Puerto Rico? Can you please qualify to what degree you think new states would help democrats. I acknowledge DC, but Puerto Rico could easily result in one or two republican senators.

11/12/2020 5:37:00 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"Republicans appeal to a smaller base but they are honest to that base so its not going anywhere."


LMFAO!!! You crack me up, horosho.

Lying about election results ain't my idea of honesty, boy.

11/12/2020 5:44:04 PM

horosho
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Did all republicans lie about election results? Who did other than Trump? Also funny how you have no problem with democrats lying about how the president is elected but maybe thats just because you don't know how it works which would be sad but also evidence that people who tell good lies aren't "liars". The only "liars" are people who are bad at lying.

[Edited on November 13, 2020 at 11:31 PM. Reason : just saw a post that reminded me how dems lost 1000 seats during obama...so its been in decline]

11/13/2020 11:19:41 PM

Cabbage
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^Lying about the election is just an example out of many lies told. And Trump is the leader of the party, you know; that counts for a lot right there. You said, "They are honest to that base". Looks like you are retracting that now. Perhaps you should amend your position to "Some of them are honest to their base"? LOL!

Think about what you are saying, and the words you are using, before saying dumbass things like that.

And look! Another straw man! I have not declared any position on whether or not I think Democrats are lying about the election, nor whether or not I have any problem with it.

If it wasn't for bullshit like that, you wouldn't have any argument at all.

Quote :
"The only "liars" are people who are bad at lying."


That's a fucking retarded comment.

11/14/2020 12:51:44 AM

horosho
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The parties are fractured and there is now more difference within the parties than between them. Trump is the leader of the republican party in the same way he is the leader of the US. A portion of republicans even selected Joe Biden as their nominee. Most of them are honest to their base. For example, its not common for republicans to say things like "we will protect the unborn" and then work to expand access to abortion. They may be dishonest to you but that is on behalf of delivering for their base who doesn't give a shit about you. Just like when they flip flopped on the SCOTUS pick during an election year. They were being dishonest towards democrats but they were consistently fighting for what their base wanted all along.
Quote :
"That's a fucking retarded comment."

Maybe you don't understand it because you don't get what I mean by "liars". I mean people who are known as liars. So good liars don't get caught in their lies thus are never known as "liars".

Just like how the best criminals never get caught or convicted while the people who aren't as good at being criminals do and end up being the only ones labeled as "criminals"

11/15/2020 3:37:47 PM

Cherokee
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John Gotti was known to be a criminal even though it took multiple trials to ultimately convict him. The only difference is we require a legal standard of proof for the government to punish someone. We do not require a legal standard of proof in any other aspect of society.

Just like there is a difference between someone legally being a liar and being known to be a liar.

11/15/2020 4:51:05 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
". Trump is the leader of the republican party in the same way he is the leader of the US. A portion of republicans even selected Joe Biden as their nominee. "


Oh, bullshit. Some Republicans have turned against Trump, sure, but its not even close to the level of Americans in general turning against him; he has significant Republican support. You do realize he got a shitload of votes in this election, don't you? While his American support hovers around 40%, his Republican support hovers over 80% and even 90%. He's the leader of the party, regardless of your denials and ignorance. Maybe you should start paying attention.

Quote :
"Most of them are honest to their base. For example, its not common for republicans to say things like "we will protect the unborn" and then work to expand access to abortion. They may be dishonest to you but that is on behalf of delivering for their base who doesn't give a shit about you."


Oh, bullshit. That's not just dishonest to me, it's dishonest to their base. Telling their base one thing then delivering another is obviously lying to them, you fucking moron. Where the fuck do you come up with this bullshit?

Quote :
"So good liars don't get caught in their lies thus are never known as "liars"."


I know what you meant, it's still a fucking retarded comment: You're too ignorant to even recognize Republicans lying to their base (and therefore have no room to "preach") and this equivocating is even more bullshit when it's being used as a Trump apology, who lies more than any major American political figure in living memory. Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense.

11/15/2020 5:55:44 PM

horosho
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Quote :
"Oh, bullshit. Some Republicans have turned against Trump, sure, but its not even close to the level of Americans in general turning against him; he has significant Republican support. You do realize he got a shitload of votes in this election, don't you? While his American support hovers around 40%, his Republican support hovers over 80% and even 90%. He's the leader of the party, regardless of your denials and ignorance. Maybe you should start paying attention."

Theres a division within the party. The far right part of the party loves Trump and the rest of the party puts up with him. The latter group voted for Trump in the same way progressives voted for Joe Biden. So theres a fraction of Trump votes that were intended as "harm reduction" to prevent Biden from winning. This is also why Biden ran right to absorb a chunk of those votes in midwestern swing states. Remember, Trump rarely took a majority in the 2016 primaries.
Quote :
"Oh, bullshit. That's not just dishonest to me, it's dishonest to their base. Telling their base one thing then delivering another is obviously lying to them, you fucking moron. Where the fuck do you come up with this bullshit?"

They never really alienated their base on key issues. They fight the democrats and deliver on the abortion issue. I posted data on abortion rights and access earlier this year and you could see that they've actually been making progress on their base's top issue. Gun purchases are also up despite all of the mass shootings they never seem to lose the subsequent battle. They aren't just fighting for what they promise to their base. They are winning.

Quote :
"I know what you meant, it's still a fucking retarded comment: You're too ignorant to even recognize Republicans lying to their base (and therefore have no room to "preach") and this equivocating is even more bullshit when it's being used as a Trump apology, who lies more than any major American political figure in living memory. Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense."

Trump is a bad liar but ironically, he became popular for his bluntness and refusal to be "pc". The biggest issue was on the border. Politicians spent over a decade insisting we needed to "secure the border" but they never explicitly stated what we were trying to secure the border from. Then Trump came along and said the quiet part out loud. He explicitly stated who they were trying to secure the border from and why. You can be honest and wrong at the same time. This explicit transparency was "polarizing" because it was a breathe of fresh air for people who were really scared about our need to "secure the border" but "racist" or even "fascist" to those who didn't want to secure the border.

[Edited on November 15, 2020 at 8:58 PM. Reason : suddenly politicians who pandered about border security are now pandering about racist rhetoric. ]

11/15/2020 8:57:08 PM

Cabbage
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I said fuck you and your dishonesty. Just shut the fuck up already, son.

11/15/2020 9:04:19 PM

StTexan
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^dude...wtf???

11/15/2020 9:32:48 PM

Cabbage
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^What? Did I say something wrong? Why should I have any patience for a troll that does not engage in good faith, preaches about basing beliefs on evidence.......and then goes on to straw man and attribute, to me, one false position after another?

See this post:

https://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=527139&page=39#16586034

If you got a problem with that......fuck you, too.

[Edited on November 15, 2020 at 9:43 PM. Reason : ]

11/15/2020 9:41:21 PM

horosho
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His previous post was a tap out. This is not how you deal with someone who makes an incorrect read.

[Edited on November 15, 2020 at 10:07 PM. Reason : even if they make repeated logical mistakes and are just "dumber" than you]

11/15/2020 10:06:35 PM

Cabbage
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It wasn't a tap out, it was a realization of the futility of debating a dishonest piece of shit.

11/15/2020 10:17:40 PM

StTexan
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Until libs respect the 70 million plus that voted trump shit aint never gone get better. And the AOC of the world only help republicans with tropes etc.

11/16/2020 1:00:00 AM

Cabbage
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^Funny how you neglect to mention the lack of respect that that 70 million plus (remember "Fuck your feelings"?) give to libs. I guess you're just more interested in simply presenting a narrative that blames libs.

11/16/2020 1:18:19 AM

dmspack
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Quote :
" And the AOC of the world only help republicans with tropes etc."


Nah. Republicans will call anybody on the Dem side a raging socialist regardless of any basis in reality. Yes, AOC gets painted as the boogey-woman. But they’ve been calling everybody on the left communists and socialists long before AOC was around.

11/16/2020 8:28:45 AM

rwoody
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Kinda depressing across the spectrum in the house here
https://prospect.org/api/amp/politics/house-leadership-keeps-inexplicably-rolling-along/

11/16/2020 1:56:14 PM

Cabbage
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"Did all republicans lie about election results? Who did other than Trump?"


Seriously? You're so fucking ignorant you need to ask??? You need to start paying attention, son:

"President Trump won this election, so everyone who's listening, do not be quiet" - Kevin McCarthy

"There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration" - Mike Pompeo

Not to mention there's quite an assortment of various accusations of voter fraud from various Republicans will nothing but bullshit to back them up. Seriously, how do you manage to be so fucking ignorant?

Anyway, still waiting over here for you to back up any of the bullshit claims you've attributed to me. Come on, man! With all this pandemic bullshit going on, I kind of need a laugh at someone making a fool of theyself.

I'm counting on ya to do that for me, son

11/16/2020 4:13:31 PM

dmspack
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^ not to mention several GOP senators doing the “count every legal vote” thing...obviously implying there were plenty of illegal votes, even if they aren’t coming right out and saying Trump actually won. They’re still feeding into his baseless claims of fraud and rigged election

11/16/2020 6:38:03 PM

aaronburro
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^^ why do you even try to engage Earl. You know what he is. Ignore him

11/16/2020 7:24:04 PM

Cabbage
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Sometimes I can't help myself from trolling the trolls.

11/16/2020 8:00:44 PM

rwoody
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I doubt you're having the effect you'd like

11/16/2020 8:23:51 PM

Cabbage
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I think you're right.

11/16/2020 8:24:35 PM

horosho
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A member of Trump's cabinet and one republican would still not be enough.
Quote :
""President Trump won this election, so everyone who's listening, do not be quiet" - Kevin McCarthy"

This is without context. He's saying every legal vote should count and the backdrop is that a lot of republicans had been saying in person votes with id verification should be the only ones that legally count long before this election. I get it you need proof of fraud but from their perspective, votes need proof of not being fraud.

Quote :
"Not to mention there's quite an assortment of various accusations of voter fraud from various Republicans will nothing but bullshit to back them up. Seriously, how do you manage to be so fucking ignorant?"

theres not a lot of hard evidence of voter fraud but there are a lot of reasons to have doubt about the reliability of mail in ballots. Skepticism about a system that has never been used so widely isn't "lying". Just because you believe there is no chance there was voter fraud doesn't mean republicans feel the same way and are just lying. You have a propensity to call positions you strongly disagree with "lies".

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 8:48 PM. Reason : try to put yourselves into the mind of others instead of just saying they are lying]

11/16/2020 8:47:22 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"try to put yourselves into the mind of others instead of just saying they are lying"


I've tried, but I'm still coming up with a blank on why you said this about me:

Quote :
"I'm still lost on how that could leave any of those parties with significantly more credibility than Trump to the point where you would believe anything they say as long as its against Trump"


....and for some reason, you've never bothered to clarify.

Liar.

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 8:59 PM. Reason : ]

11/16/2020 8:59:27 PM

horosho
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I don't know. No one else can truly know whats in your head. Its obviously an assumption based on that pattern appearing in your comments. If its wrong, its wrong. (but why does it seem to burn so bad?)

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 9:03 PM. Reason : it really stuck with you huh]

11/16/2020 9:03:22 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
" No one else can truly know whats in your head."


For some reason that has never stopped you from trying.

Hey! Here's an idea! How about you respond to what I actually type instead of what you imagine I think? Can you handle that, or is it just too fucking hard for you to do?

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 9:06 PM. Reason : ]

11/16/2020 9:06:19 PM

rwoody
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^^^^his thoughts on mail in ballots areas 100% irrelevant, they ARE legal. Even the president uses them.

Saying Trump won is st best wishful thinking
But it's really a fucking lie.

Quote :
"but there are a lot of reasons to have doubt about the reliability of mail in ballots "


Maybe a lot of reasons but no good ones

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 9:08 PM. Reason : E]

11/16/2020 9:06:52 PM

horosho
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Ballots were mailed out unsolicited and could be returned with no ID or verification happening at any point of the process. My building left all the ballots on a table in the lobby. Theoretically, all you had to do was intercept ballots, vote Biden and sign the name on the ballot.

They have found fraud and errors here and there but most experts are saying that unless they confirm a number of fraudulent votes equal to the margin of victory, that there is no significant voter fraud. The burden of proof is nearly impossible but you don't need the burden of proof to have skepticism and loss of faith in the election. Expression of loss of faith is not necessarily a lie, even if the election outcome is 100% accurate.

11/16/2020 9:13:38 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"He's saying every legal vote should count and the backdrop is that a lot of republicans had been saying in person votes with id verification should be the only ones that legally count long before this election. I get it you need proof of fraud but from their perspective, votes need proof of not being fraud."


See, you're already trying to bullshit an explanation to support your bullshit position.

Even if there was good evidence of fraudulent ballots (there's not), saying Trump won is simply a lie.

11/16/2020 9:27:53 PM

horosho
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I dunno. I think Trump probably won the in-person vote.

11/16/2020 9:31:02 PM

Cabbage
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....which is not the metric used to determine the winner.

And look, if someone has lost faith in the electoral process, it would not be a lie to say so. On the other hand, it would still be a lie to say Trump won.

11/16/2020 9:33:57 PM

rwoody
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^^^^there's a decades long history of default vote by mail being successful and nevada was the only close state to do so.

What kind of shit fuck building leaves mail sitting out on a table?

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 9:36 PM. Reason : 3]

11/16/2020 9:36:04 PM

Cabbage
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^^And speaking of double standards, just on the previous page you posted

Quote :
"This (popular vote) is an arbitrary metric. How many times do I have to say the popular vote is not even a thing. I'll look past it."


....and now you're swearing by "in person vote"

LMFAO

11/16/2020 9:37:46 PM

horosho
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On this page I was describing Mccarthy's position. On the previous page, I was describing the constitution.
Quote :
"^^^^there's a decades long history of default vote by mail being successful "

Never on this scale where its so significant.
Quote :
"What kind of shit fuck building leaves mail sitting out on a table?"

Exactly. The answer is buildings in shit fuck cities where people live in densely populated buildings that have been divided into more units than initially intended for that address. Cities like Detroit, Milwaukee, Philly, Atlanta and Los Angeles where postal workers don't make as much of a living but have more work. My post man once said he was only obligated to deliver mail to the address and did not have to put them in the individual boxes if he didn't have time.

11/16/2020 10:08:49 PM

rwoody
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For the ballots without request, yes absolutely on this scale. I mean California is new but surely you don't think Cali was up for Trump??

And the other issue sounds like something you need to take up with your local post office,

11/16/2020 10:17:31 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"On this page I was describing Mccarthy's position."


I'm pretty sure even McCarthy knows "in-person votes" is not the metric with which the winner is declared.

Did he say Trump won in-person votes? No, he did not. He lied and said, "President Trump won this election".

Quote :
"A member of Trump's cabinet and one republican would still not be enough."


Bullshit. Enough for what? Here's where I remind you that you specifically asked

Quote :
"Who did other than Trump?"


One would be enough to answer that question.

I gave you two.

I thought you said you were gonna stop bullshitting your way through these debates. Is bullshitting all you got, bro?

11/16/2020 10:26:07 PM

horosho
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Go back further. I said republicans, in general are more honest to their base. I was talking about the future and why republicans have the upper hand going forward. I explained that they lost this time because of Trump and his dishonesty.
Quote :
""Some of them are honest to their base"? LOL!"

You need enough republicans so that the remainder becomes "some" instead of "most".

You are taking Mccarthy's direct quote out of context so even that is not a lie. If you read the rest of his comments it becomes clear he is saying that all legal votes should count but that no other votes should count., He thinks Trump's votes were legal whereas Biden's extra votes came by mail and were illegal. Even if he doesn't truly believe that, his constituents do therefore he is speaking on behalf of them. I don't see how you can spin that as McCarthy lying to his base. He's fighting for them.

I said republicans in general are honest to their base despite Trump. Trump and his administration are obviously not.

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 10:45 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 10:46 PM. Reason : trump was catapulted in 2016 because of his bluntness. media won the covid narrative against him]

11/16/2020 10:44:41 PM

rwoody
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Saying something you know is not true to satisfy the base is another way to describe a lie

11/16/2020 10:47:30 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
" I said republicans, in general are more honest to their base."


Oh, Bullshit. This is what you said:

Quote :
"Yes Dems are able to appeal to more groups of people but they accomplish that mostly through dishonesty and people are on to them. Its easy to appeal to almost everyone when you just lie and pretend to stand for everything while standing for almost nothing. Republicans appeal to a smaller base but they are honest to that base so its not going anywhere."


Note the lack of the word "more" before the word "honest".

Backtracking liar.

Quote :
"You need enough republicans so that the remainder becomes "some" instead of "most"."


Actually, note the lack of the word "most" before the word "Republicans". You made a blanket statement, I need only find one counterexample. I now have given you three (and I haven't even scratched the surface).

Quote :
"If you read the rest of his comments it becomes clear he is saying that all legal votes should count but that no other votes should count., He thinks Trump's votes were legal whereas Biden's extra votes came by mail and were illegal. Even if he doesn't truly believe that, his constituents do therefore he is speaking on behalf of them."


No, he's lying to them to pander to them.

11/16/2020 10:52:13 PM

Cabbage
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And since you seem to have such a rigorous criteria for what constitutes a lie, I'm curious to see what you think Democrats lie about.

I guarantee you, the same bullshit you use to spin Republican lies into non-lies can be applied to anyone's lies--even Democrats (that is, if you're intellectually honest in applying your bullshit. Which, of course, I know is not the case). I'm eager to demonstrate this obvious fact to you, you double standardizing hack. Give me an example.

11/16/2020 10:56:09 PM

horosho
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Quote :
"Note the lack of the word "more" before the word "honest".

Backtracking liar."

It was implied relativity due to the context. We are comparing republicans to democrats. Thats the whole point. See thread title.

Quote :
"Actually, note the lack of the word "most" before the word "Republicans". You made a blanket statement, I need only find one counterexample. I now have given you three (and I haven't even scratched the surface)."

It was a generalization. If you read my initial post, you would have seen that I didn't include Trump but Trump is a republican. Absolute statements never work.

but the original point was that the republican party was going to gain overall control. That wouldn't reasonably mean every member of the party would be strong and win every single seat. It should be relatively easy to assume that statement meant "in general".

"republicans are honest to their base" obviously doesn't mean the "no republican ever lies to their base"
Quote :
"Saying something you know is not true to satisfy the base is another way to describe a lie

"

No one knows the truth. Its more complicated than that anyway. These are representatives so its their job to speak on behalf of their constituents, take their form, and voice their concerns. This is also the part where democrats like Feinstein would say something like "you don't know what you're talking about I'm the one in office. I've been doing this longer than you. me=l33t" or something like "what are you going to do? vote for trump? lol pwnt". Addressing climate change is a great example of something democrats lie about but republicans do not.

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 11:09 PM. Reason : and clearly i dont mean "ALL" democrats. Generalizations. ]

11/16/2020 11:07:45 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"It was implied relativity due to the context."


I just posted what you said. You made no implication of relativity. Maybe you meant to, but you did not.

Quote :
"It was a generalization."


And it was extraordinarily wrong.

Quote :
"No one knows the truth."


Bullshit.

11/16/2020 11:12:27 PM

Cabbage
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Still waiting for you to post a Democratic lie so I can demonstrate how your bullshit can be applied to them, too.

(The difference between you and me, of course, is that at least I'll admit when I'm bullshitting you).

11/16/2020 11:14:10 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"No one knows the truth"



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

11/16/2020 11:17:59 PM

Cabbage
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Quote :
"Expression of loss of faith is not necessarily a lie, even if the election outcome is 100% accurate."


Fabricating stories of electoral fraud to support and spread that belief.....that is a lie.

11/17/2020 2:12:41 AM

Bullet
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If you're not aware, Earl isn't arguing in good faith. He's trolling. He's been doing it for years and years. It's his thing. Try to refrain from taking him seriously.

11/17/2020 11:14:30 AM

horosho
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What we do know:

-There are major, widespread vulnerabilities in our voting systems (democrats talked about this for 3 years)
-There have been a few discoveries of "errors" and inconsistencies in election results
-There have been "errors" that led to initial flips in election results in favor of democrats (see Antrim county and iowa caucus)
-There are widespread witness accounts of election fraud.
-Many republicans considered the shift to mail in ballots to be fraudulent by default (and talked about it before the election)

What we don't know:

-How many accounts of fraud are fake and how many are real.
-If the summation of all errors and fraud were enough to flip the election
-If any of the fraud was intentional or part of some wide conspiracy
-The effect pretending we know stuff we don't know or don't know stuff we don't know has on the spread of conspiracy theories and misinformation.

Quote :
"Still waiting for you to post a Democratic lie so I can demonstrate how your bullshit can be applied to them, too.

(The difference between you and me, of course, is that at least I'll admit when I'm bullshitting you)."

Its very difficult to expose lies as lies to people who have a blindspot to those lies (most democrats). The fact that you are asking this question means its already a tall task. I will say that the style of lies are different. Republicans lie to advance the agenda of their base while democrats lie to expand their base and get votes from people who would never vote for them if they told the truth.

[Edited on November 17, 2020 at 1:30 PM. Reason : they need both a public and private position on issues]

11/17/2020 1:25:34 PM

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