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Master_Yoda
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Anyone using it? Anyone mining? Im trying to get it installed on a server of mine to mine (pun not intended).

6/17/2011 4:09:36 PM

jaZon
All American
26728 Posts
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It isn't even worth it at this point, is it?

6/17/2011 4:48:15 PM

EuroTitToss
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Yes, I'm mining and thinking about just dropping a little bit on an exchange so I can play with the API.

I just ordered a graphics card which, while no where near the best on the market (which are all sold out anyway), has considerable hash performance for its price. Great site for making these decisions: http://bitminer.info/

^regarding mining, if you don't have a GPU, no. if you can afford a decent GPU, it theoretically should pay for itself rather quickly, but that could change as the difficulty increases or if the exchange rate drops.

Quote :
"Anonymous asked: Is it worth starting to mine for bitcoins at this point?

Mining profitability is among the best it has ever been.

http://bitcoin.atspace.com/income.html

The problem is mining uses off the shelf hardware that has literally been taken off the shelf! In other words, Bitcoin miners have snapped up nearly all the suitable hardware. Globally.

Here’s an example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=6990"

this answer is 1 week old

the only other thing to realize is you are up against some serious competition: http://i.imgur.com/sLpKc.jpg


[Edited on June 17, 2011 at 4:57 PM. Reason : asdfasf]

6/17/2011 4:50:23 PM

wwwebsurfer
All American
10021 Posts
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whoa whoa whoa - we can make $ doing the same thing SETI does?

TELL ME MORE.

6/17/2011 7:10:29 PM

smoothcrim
Universal Magnetic!
17946 Posts
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you're basically selling brute force cycles to people hacking your accounts online

6/17/2011 7:19:48 PM

Shaggy
All American
17820 Posts
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http://buttcoin.org/

6/17/2011 8:29:12 PM

wwwebsurfer
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Alright, so I installed the linux client on an old laptop.

I'm seeing what I believe to be the digital wallet - down at the bottom it reads about 60 connections, 60K blocks and 0 transactions.

I was expecting to see my processor jump to 100% but it hasn't... Is there something I need to do to jump in and start processing or do I just wait it out until work units come along?

6/17/2011 8:51:24 PM

EuroTitToss
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the newest version of the client does not including mining (because it's pointless for most people).

you need to download a mining client: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Miners

also, you probably need to join a pool or you won't be getting shit for years

6/17/2011 9:04:04 PM

lewisje
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This thread inspired me to look into upgrading the CPU and GPU on my CQ62-225NR

I don't think I can upgrade the Radeon HD 4250 (usually on a laptop it's integrated), but the CPU is definitely doable

but now I wonder...does that model support a 45W TDP? I've heard of people upgrading from the stock Athlon II P320 (3.1GHz dual, 25W) to a 35W model like Phenom II N660 (3GHz dual) or N970 (2.2Ghz quad), but I'm interested in moving to the fastest processors my socket S1g4 will support, now that AFAIK there won't be any new ones for it: Phenom II X640 (3.2GHz dual) or X940 (2.4GHz quad), both 45W models.

I mean I still won't have nearly the power required to make a mining rig but still

6/18/2011 1:16:43 AM

wwwebsurfer
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can you recommend a cpu only pooling miner? The spare laptop doesn't exactly have spanking new hardware, and I'm not confident enough to commit this to my daily cruncher (not that it would matter, it's loaded with nvidia hardware...)

edit: I set the "generate" flag in the config file. CPU usage is up around 75%, but it still doesn't seem to be working right...

[Edited on June 18, 2011 at 1:46 AM. Reason : .]

6/18/2011 1:45:07 AM

EuroTitToss
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^,^^ guys, seriously. CPU mining isn't going to even cover the cost of electricity. I mean, sure, try it out for fun, but I have no idea why you would try upgrading your CPU.

And a 4350 is the weakest Radeon GPU they have listed on that site I posted earlier and it would only make you about 10 cents a day. I'm guessing a 4250 is less than that.

As far as pools, I use https://mtred.com They have a list of recommended miners there along with instructions on how to connect.

6/18/2011 10:15:21 AM

spöokyjon

18613 Posts
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Quote :
"CPU usage is up around 75%, but it still doesn't seem to be working right"

It's working, if you want to call it that. I mean, if you walked to Alaska you'd be "working", but it wouldn't really seem like you were getting anywhere.

6/18/2011 1:20:49 PM

lewisje
All American
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Quote :
"guys, seriously. CPU mining isn't going to even cover the cost of electricity. I mean, sure, try it out for fun, but I have no idea why you would try upgrading your CPU.

And a 4350 is the weakest Radeon GPU they have listed on that site I posted earlier and it would only make you about 10 cents a day. I'm guessing a 4250 is less than that."
Indeed, what I posted was more of a tangent on generally upgrading my laptop; I'm thinking about getting an N660 when I can spare about $160

6/18/2011 2:33:37 PM

EuroTitToss
All American
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ok cool. I just didn't want you to think it might help here.

6/18/2011 2:36:01 PM

Arab13
Art Vandelay
45063 Posts
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Too easy to exploit.

6/18/2011 10:27:07 PM

moron
All American
29988 Posts
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/18/bitcoin_stealing_malware/

Hackers literally sneak into your computer and steal your bitcoins.

6/18/2011 10:29:32 PM

wwwebsurfer
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Alrighty... so myself and two friends have pooled some cash to get in on this action. We're going to build a purpose-built GPU miner. Hoping to use some mid-upper range ATI cards. Obviously we'll start with one to keep costs down, then reinvest all earnings back into the system until it's packed out with cards - then we'll run it at least until we recoup the investment. The endgame is that hopefully once or twice per month we can have the office out to lunch for free (since the office is supplying the power and cooling for the rig).

So... My biggest question right now is how do we create an effective mini pool as we go to multiple cards and eventually multiple machines? Are people just running 4 instances of the GPU mining program and using RPC to connect to the bitcoin wallet/server? I've been trying to run a test of that setup and can't get it to work. It always complains about unable to connect to the wallet server. Of course in this method as we move to more machines what needs to have internet access? Just the server or all of the render nodes? Making sure the setup is adequately firewalled.

Last question is about the mining - where is it getting the problems from? Can someone submit problems to it like you could on the boinc network of old? If we're going to be crunching like crazy we'd prefer submitting our "work" to some cause like cancer research or something. If the currency crashes we'll probably be doing that anyway...

EDIT: The link Euro posted is not pulling in data correctly today. How do the CUDA cards compare to the AMD's? My home computer is meant more for work - CS5 mostly, with fast CUDA cards in it. If it's fast enough to matter I'd run the client at night on it - but if it's an order of magnitude off I'd rather just let the machine run SETI or protein folding.

[Edited on June 18, 2011 at 10:57 PM. Reason : more]

6/18/2011 10:55:10 PM

Grandmaster
All American
10796 Posts
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you guys missed the boat.

6/19/2011 1:33:43 AM

lewisje
All American
9188 Posts
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we sure did lol

6/19/2011 2:36:10 AM

EuroTitToss
All American
4733 Posts
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Quote :
"(since the office is supplying the power and cooling for the rig)"


this the dream, yo

Quote :
"The link Euro posted is not pulling in data correctly today. How do the CUDA cards compare to the AMD's?"


http://bitminer.info/ is back up this morning. AMD are 3-5 times faster for mining and this should explain why: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU#Why_are_AMD_GPUs_faster_than_Nvidia_GPUs?

Quote :
"Last question is about the mining - where is it getting the problems from? Can someone submit problems to it like you could on the boinc network of old? If we're going to be crunching like crazy we'd prefer submitting our "work" to some cause like cancer research or something. If the currency crashes we'll probably be doing that anyway..."


Here's the thing. You are definitely not doing productive work, unless of course you think supporting a digital currency is important (which many people do). You're basically performing what amounts to a bunch of meaningless hashing. The problems aren't submitted. It's pretty much the same problem with different inputs for the rest of time.


I'm terrible at explaining this shit but here goes. Any new transactions (people exchanging bitcoin) need to be confirmed by the network. All these new, unconfirmed transactions are grouped together in a "block." Then we generate a block header, which is a combination of 1) a summary of block info and 2) a number we choose (called a nonce). Here's a bit more technical explanation of the header: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm

Solving the problem would mean that we hash the block header and end up with a sufficiently low number (less than the current "difficulty"). For example, say our hashing function took the block header and the output produced is (for all practical purposes) a random number out of 1,000,000. If the difficulty is set to 10, we need to find an input to the hashing function such that the output is less than or equal to 10. Obviously, you'd only have a 1 in 100,000 chance of doing this on each try. And the network can and does change that difficulty at any time blocks are being solved too fast.

The only way to change the output is to change the nonce. All we do is just iterate through all possible nonce values and hash until we hit gold. The whole point of this exercise, by the way, is to make these confirmations take time so they can't be instantly forged. Again, no important work here. Also, there's no way this is helping the CIA crack passwords unless your passwords happen to resemble an 80 byte block header.

Everyone on the network is doing the same thing: incrementing a number and then literally shuffling around some bits. And they are doing it, collectively, 10 trillion times a second. Sorry, aliens. Sorry, people with cancer. Gotta make that paper.

[Edited on June 19, 2011 at 7:08 AM. Reason : fsdfsdfsdf]

6/19/2011 7:03:25 AM

mdbncsu
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There is also a 5 page thread in the Soap Box http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=612541

6/19/2011 7:08:44 AM

EuroTitToss
All American
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That's about the political implications, obviously.

6/19/2011 7:10:29 AM

EuroTitToss
All American
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oh dear.



hack? trading bot? thief unloading his shit? market manipulators? wtf?

[Edited on June 19, 2011 at 2:21 PM. Reason : WTF]

6/19/2011 2:18:48 PM

Kris
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https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback

I don't see why anyone would hold something this easily manipulated.

6/19/2011 3:14:32 PM

EuroTitToss
All American
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oh fuck

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19543.0

if you have an account, you might want to change your password

I have to say.... this shit does not make me confident in mtgox (which happens to be the largest exchange). at least they're reversing everything. I guess that's good?

[Edited on June 19, 2011 at 3:43 PM. Reason : asfasdfasd]

6/19/2011 3:27:14 PM

moron
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Quote :
"I don't see why anyone would hold something this easily manipulated.
"


Same reason banks gave loans to people with no money, then sold the bad debt to everyone else… the perception of cheap, easy money.

People are selfish and lazy.

6/19/2011 4:11:11 PM

Kris
All American
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at the time there was a big amount of hidden risk that was glazed over, here is risk is right out in the open, and the potential payout is not worth the risk here, imo.

[Edited on June 19, 2011 at 5:08 PM. Reason : ]

6/19/2011 5:08:35 PM

jaZon
All American
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I want to meet someone that htinks Bitcoin is a good idea and shake their hand.

6/19/2011 6:47:21 PM

EuroTitToss
All American
4733 Posts
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does that come with a throat punch?

if not, let's do coffee

seriously, none of this shit is a failing of the bitcoin protocol. it's the fault of one dumbass web developer and a bunch of people willing to leave money on the table.

6/19/2011 6:53:39 PM

jaZon
All American
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lol

And I'm not really thinking about he security aspects.

6/19/2011 9:02:23 PM

wwwebsurfer
All American
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from what small bit I understand the endless amount of anonymity sounds awesome for security to me. If I could set the number on my credit card the same way i can change the bitcoin address it'd be awesome.

--Euro you didn't mention how to handle the multi machine problem. I don't want to get familiar with something and then have to switch in a month when we're adding more equipment.

Also,
Quote :
"Sorry, aliens. Sorry, people with cancer. Gotta make that paper."


QUOTE OF THE DAY

6/19/2011 11:43:30 PM

GeniuSxBoY
Suspended
16786 Posts
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6/20/2011 12:15:32 AM

lewisje
All American
9188 Posts
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what is this i dont even

6/20/2011 3:46:56 AM

EuroTitToss
All American
4733 Posts
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^foobar. the exchange is frozen. 40,000 hashed passwords leaked. someone selling off huge amounts of stolen coin for nothing to try to rebuy it.

Quote :
"--Euro you didn't mention how to handle the multi machine problem. I don't want to get familiar with something and then have to switch in a month when we're adding more equipment."


Yup because I have no fucking clue. I'm running a rather simple setup and I would advise you to ask your question on a bitcoin forum.

6/20/2011 7:40:03 AM

GeniuSxBoY
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That's a snapshot of the disaster right after the atomic bomb.

6/20/2011 1:43:08 PM

BobbyDigital
PM ME YOUR TITS
41645 Posts
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http://blogs.forbes.com/timworstall/2011/06/20/so-thats-the-end-of-bitcoin-then/

6/20/2011 1:50:10 PM

GeniuSxBoY
Suspended
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Hey Euro, what are your plans? Are you going to buy, sell, or get out?

6/20/2011 2:19:33 PM

wwwebsurfer
All American
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^I think that guy has some valid points, but he's largely missing the entire point of a peer to peer currency. The entire currency is based on the free market system. It's a question of if we remove all constraints from the system, all bureaucracy, subsidies, government, and let the sole forces of risk and reward, supply and demand run rampant and see what happens.

This was a freak accident and I'm 85% sure that the values will come roaring back and we'll be back in business in no time. He's also focusing with a laser beam on one exchange - which it's true it holds back people trying to convert to USD or Euros, but there's nothing holding back point to point exchanges.

6/20/2011 2:23:59 PM

EuroTitToss
All American
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^^I'm going to buy into an exchange when I get funded. I guess the question is: which one? Obviously, mtgox looks ridiculous right now, but who is to say another exchange isn't just as vulnerable? The most popular alternative, Tradehill, has been around forall of 12 days. At least mtgox is getting some scrutiny. Regardless, I'm not selling the farm here; I'm just putting in a bit to play around with.

And of course I'm going to continue to mine.

If you do decide to stay in, you need to protect yourself as best as possible. Secure your wallet file. Avoid CSRF attacks by logging into an exchange, doing your shit, and logging off. Maintain a strong, unique password.

6/20/2011 3:25:57 PM

GeniuSxBoY
Suspended
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I just signed up to tradehill. I'll put my referral code up so you can get lifetime 10% off transaction fees when the site is back up

6/20/2011 3:52:46 PM

GeniuSxBoY
Suspended
16786 Posts
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Aight... here the referral code: TH-R17253

6/20/2011 4:00:46 PM

shanedidona
All American
728 Posts
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so.... why the GPU cycles? what do the GPUs do the allows the generation of value?

6/20/2011 9:30:58 PM

wwwebsurfer
All American
10021 Posts
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^well any processor could do it... one of the fundamentals of computing is that (sans exotic systems like quantum computing) your watch processor could do the exact same work your laptop does - it's just going to take it FOREVER.

The key to the graphics processor is that it can run several thousand iterations at the same time netting larger throughput. Either way at the end of the day all it's doing is picking a number, running a hashing operation, and seeing where it falls in terms of the lotto nonce.

6/20/2011 9:37:29 PM

shanedidona
All American
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^ i get that GPUs are parallel and faster for some things, but what is the end goal to all the computation?

6/20/2011 10:16:19 PM

Punter16
All American
2019 Posts
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Look, I get that this appeals to the geek in everyone, and the anti-establishment nature of it kind of makes you feel like you're sticking it to the man, but a currency only has value if people have confidence in it and any confidence that the average person had in bitcoin is now toast. They got one shot at this and they blew it, game over.

6/20/2011 10:32:52 PM

BobbyDigital
PM ME YOUR TITS
41645 Posts
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^

6/20/2011 10:42:59 PM

Shaggy
All American
17820 Posts
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if any of y'all were dumb enough to drop a load of cash on some nice cards, i'll take one off your hands at 25% of retail

6/20/2011 11:22:36 PM

Grandmaster
All American
10796 Posts
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really the only thing this currency had going for it was the pseudo-anonymous aspect and the press from shit such as the ability to purchase drugs from Silk Road. Once they closed their doors to new members, it served as a ball peen hammer to bitcoin's coffin. The recent hax just introduced a pressurized nail gun into the equation.

6/21/2011 1:28:32 AM

AlaskanGrown
I'm Randy
4690 Posts
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I still cannot figure out wtf this shit is all about. I understand the monetary aspects but how you earn the coins still has me confused. Are you 'selling' processing power to solve some big problem or what?

6/21/2011 1:56:11 AM

lewisje
All American
9188 Posts
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You run a mining client, which computes a bunch of hashes at random, trying to find the magical one that results in a new "block," and if you get one you get a bunch of Bitcoin in your e-wallet.

6/21/2011 3:45:51 AM

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