I'm not really sure how that says that.......

What you're basically saying is that until there is concrete proof that he didn't know about 1998 then of course he did.... Right?

11/9/2011 12:57:34 PM

^^ I'd say your inability to distinguish between what's known and what's a possibility says far more about you being a child than me.

11/9/2011 12:59:01 PM

anyone got links to Penn State Message board discussions on this?

11/9/2011 12:59:10 PM

Quote :

"You: Paterno knew Sandusky was fucking little boys all over town. Me: Well, I don't know. The grand jury and current investigation haven't found anything so far to suggest he did."

Quote :

"March 2, 2002 -- A graduate assistant allegedly tells Coach Joe Paterno that he saw Sandusky in the locker room shower on Mar. 1 with a young boy. The retired defense coordinator was engaging in anal sex with the boy, believed to be no more than 10 years old. March 3, 2002 -- Paterno reports the incident to Athletic Director Tim Curley. Paterno tells Curley the grad student had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." The graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Schultz. March 3, 2002 -- The assistant, according to the grand jury report, sticks by his story, saying he saw Sandusky having anal sex with the young boy. Schultz, 62, and Curley, 57, told the grand jury they could not remember the details of the meeting. Schultz said Sandusky "might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals during wrestling," and Curley said he was under the impression, like Schultz, that the affair involved little more than "horsing around." March, 2002 -- Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, and he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus. The incident is not reported to police, and no official investigation is launched. March, 2002 -- The Second Mile learns of the shower incident through Penn State. Curley tells them that "the information had been internally reviewed, and that there was no finding of wrongdoing." "

by the way, this is an excellent showcase of language softening, over 3 degrees of separation "anal sex" has become "horsing around"

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 1:02 PM. Reason : "]

11/9/2011 1:01:18 PM

^^

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395
http://pennstate.247sports.com/Board/Penn-State-Nittany-Lions-Message-Board-Forum-18

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 1:04 PM. Reason : ^]

11/9/2011 1:03:56 PM

^^ he was talking about the 1998 case, not the 2002 case

11/9/2011 1:05:34 PM

Even with respect to 2002, the grand jury report isn't quite that clear on what McQueary told Paterno. It is quite clear on what Paterno and McQueary individually told Curley and Schultz, what Curley and Schultz told everyone else, and it's clear on the fact that Schultz knew what had happened in 1998 and 2002.

11/9/2011 1:08:56 PM

Quote :

"WebSiteMob 304 posts If Ol' Jer was smart, he'd fire up his laptop & google "Bud Dwyer". "

+1


So at the very minimum we know that paterno knew there was an incident involving Sandusky and a 10 year old boy in a shower in the PSU facilities. And he let that creep have access for 9 more years. Yea. This is sick.

11/9/2011 1:09:03 PM

Sandusky's access came from his status as a retired university employee. Not from Paterno.

+1 on Bud Dwyer, though.

11/9/2011 1:10:56 PM

^paterno could have done something about that if he wanted to

11/9/2011 1:15:10 PM

So paterno doesn't have pull to get that access denied?

11/9/2011 1:15:13 PM

man people are quick to defend JoePa

not shocking

but yeah

11/9/2011 1:16:09 PM

Quote :

"Even with respect to 2002, the grand jury report isn't quite that clear on what McQueary told Paterno."

Well at the very least, we know though that McQueary told Paterno Sandusky was "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." McQueary being 28 years old you'd think is intelligent enough to not describe sodomy as fondling.

I've read a lot on this in the past few days so I don't know where it's come from and I'm not reading the grand jury report at work, but one account has McQueary starting to tell Paterno about it and Paterno told him to stop, which would fall in line with Paterno being incredibly vague. But this is how all powerful people in college athletics departments want to act, they don't want to know what's going on. Because if they do know, they can't claim ignorance later on. And Paterno right now is claiming ignorance.

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 1:20 PM. Reason : /]

11/9/2011 1:18:47 PM

Quote :

"So paterno doesn't have pull to get that access denied?"

Quote :

"March, 2002 -- Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, and he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus."

11/9/2011 1:19:05 PM

He had access to the facilities as of a week+ ago.

11/9/2011 1:20:09 PM

^^but he did still have access, right? lots of confusion here.

^that's what i thought. again, paterno could have done something about that, but apparently he didn't (except a symbolic gesture of "taking his keys")

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 1:21 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2011 1:20:28 PM

^^^^

Plausible deniability

The grand jury report says "The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and with to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen."

This is in contrast to the conversation between Paterno, Curley, and Schultz: "[Paterno reported] that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

...and the conversation between McQueary, Curley, and Schultz: "The graduate assistant reported to Curley and Schultz that he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers."

I'd also like to point out again that campus police work for Schultz, and that Schultz knew about the 1998 investigation when he spoke to McQueary.

11/9/2011 1:27:48 PM

Paterno testifies to a grand jury about Sandusky having sex with boys in 2010. So he knew he was currently under investigation a year ago. That plus what Paterno already knew about previous incidents and Sandusky still had access to Penn State facilities as late as last week.

Nope, Paterno gets no pass from me.

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 1:31 PM. Reason : a]

11/9/2011 1:30:32 PM

the more i hear and read, i find it kinda ludicrous that people are trying to defend paterno in this matter

11/9/2011 1:31:46 PM

Do you really want to be "that guy" somewhat defending anyone involved?

11/9/2011 1:37:10 PM

I think he's already answered that, ha

no idea why anybody would want to be "that guy" though

11/9/2011 1:39:01 PM

Yep, if my ass is dragged infront of a grand jury to testify about your butt rape of 10 year olds, I'm sure as hell not going to let you hang around my locker room for another year.

11/9/2011 1:39:26 PM

I still don't understand why this McQueary dude didn't just call the cops right then and there.

11/9/2011 1:40:23 PM

Quote :

"I'd go so far as saying that Paterno knew everything and everyone surrounding him is more than willing to take the bullet for him if it means preserving the program."

Bull. Aint nobody gonna take a bullet that involves going to jail while another, just as guilty, guy goes scott-free. They might lie to cover something up to protect JoePa, but at the point they are caught, they will squeal like a piggy.

Quote :

"Do you really believe that Joe Paterno was completely in the dark on the whole thing? Really?"

this. why would JoePa NOT know anything about what was going on. He's freaking JoePa. He's subordinate to the AD in name only. Dude is on the same level.

Quote :

"And he let that creep have access for 9 more years. Yea. This is sick."

Are you incapable of reading or remembering where it said that Sandusky's access was A) terminated right then, and B) determined by the AD and not Paterno? Paterno might have some pull, but still...

11/9/2011 1:42:12 PM

Quote :

"Paterno might have some pull"

Quote of the year.

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 2:01 PM. Reason : bolded]

11/9/2011 1:44:00 PM

wait, you just said

Quote :

"He's subordinate to the AD in name only. Dude is on the same level."

but then you immediately followed it with

Quote :

"determined by the AD and not Paterno? Paterno might have some pull, but still..."

i'm pretty sure you just completely contradicted yourself

11/9/2011 1:45:22 PM

not at all... JoePa can't make the decision if the guy who actually has the power to do it says otherwise. The whole "gatekeeper" thing.

11/9/2011 1:47:03 PM

joe could have said "he ain't coming in my locker room", and then actually made sure that it happened.

11/9/2011 1:48:21 PM

very true. as long as JoePa is around to do so.

11/9/2011 1:49:55 PM

question, what did the parents of the victims do? Did they call the police?

My first thought about all this is I would show up to PSU with a baseball bat and bad intentions if something like this happened to my kid. I have to think that the parents would try to do the same, but if nothing else they would call the authorities.

11/9/2011 1:51:40 PM

at least one of the mom's said it took a few years for kid to start behaving irrationally and for the mom to notice what was going on.

11/9/2011 1:56:19 PM

Quote :

"Are you incapable of reading or remembering where it said that Sandusky's access was A) terminated right then, and B) determined by the AD and not Paterno? Paterno might have some pull, but still..."

Are you incapable of reading that Sandusky had access as of a fucking WEEK ago?

11/9/2011 1:58:18 PM

and are you still incapable of reading that that access was STILL not up to JoePa?

11/9/2011 2:02:05 PM

everything at Penn State is up to JoePa

everything

11/9/2011 2:03:13 PM

You just agreed with me that Joe could have made sure he didn't have access

11/9/2011 2:03:15 PM

Paterno IS PSU you fucking retard. What he says goes.

11/9/2011 2:03:21 PM

ugh there are some people trying to lynch JoePa over this... HE DID WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO PER POLICY OF PENN STATE.

11/9/2011 2:04:15 PM

but it seems like he didn't do what he could have done per human deceny policy

11/9/2011 2:05:04 PM

Quote :

"everything at Penn State is up to JoePa"

so Joe can go in and change people's grades? He can physically access the servers to make sure dude has zero access? He can sign in as the Athletic Director and do that stuff? I agree that Joe has pull, but if that stuff is up to someone else and within that person's specific control, then if Joe aint that person, and he can't convince that person to do something, then it aint gonna happen, JoePa's god-like status be damned.

Quote :

"but it seems like he didn't do what he could have done per human deceny policy"

very true

11/9/2011 2:08:35 PM

You don't have to lynch him... but you also don't have to keep him on as the face of your football program. That whole administration needs to go before the healing can start and keeping him on as the football coach sends the message that these allegations take a back seat to football.

He did the wrong thing, firing him is an easy decision. Leave the 'what did he know and when' debate for possible prosecution in the future but the present decision is an easy one to make. Fire him.

11/9/2011 2:10:31 PM

I don't believe for a second that the graduate assistant told his dad "butt sex" and then told Paterno "something vaguely sexual occurred."

11/9/2011 2:22:36 PM

Not sure what kind of contrarian bullshit burro is trying to play here but I suggest we just ignore it and go with the known fact that JoePa can contro anything he wants at that school and in that community.

11/9/2011 2:23:53 PM

This I liked

Quote :

"No ... NO. Joe Paterno, you don't get to retire with dignity and you don't get to try to bow out gracefully. You let the dignity of those young boys get violently and heinously destroyed because you were too weak to stop it, and now you want to coach out the rest of the season?! HOW DARE YOU. The time to be sickened and saddened by this was when you were told what happened by Mike McQueary in 2002. No ... NO. Penn State players. You don't applaud your coach in any way. If you're the men of character that Joe Paterno recruited, you demand to be lead by someone else, and now. No ... NO. Penn State students. You don't go outside Paterno's house and show support. You protest that the reputation of the University be restored by cutting out anything and anyone that had to do with the alleged RAPING OF CHILDREN. Yes ... YES. Penn State Board of Trustees, you demand Paterno doesn't represent your university and you demand his exit now. Not tomorrow, not after breakfast. NOW. Penn State fans, here's your chance. If you want to show the world that Penn State University is better than the actions and inactions of a few men, and now that the players have showed their support, then come Saturday morning when the team runs out of the tunnel against Nebraska, you boo. You start booing and you don't stop. Or better yet, you walk out of the stadium in protest. Penn State fans, demand better. Demand to show the world that You Are (clap, clap) Penn State."

11/9/2011 2:36:14 PM

Quote :

"Report: Penn State president to quit or be fired today By Cindy Boren Graham Spanier (left) with Joe Paterno in early October. (Gene J. Puskar / AP) Graham Spanier, the president of Penn State University, is expected to either resign or be voted out of office by the school’s Board of Trustees by the end of the day, according to a report in the Express-Times. Quoting an anonymous source, the Express-Times reported that Executive Vice President and Provost Rodney A. Erickson was the likely choice to take the job on an interim basis, with the university launching a national search for a permanent replacement. The board, according to the Daily Collegian, is expected to meet at 7:30 tonight. Earlier Wednesday, Coach Joe Paterno announced that he would etire at the end of the season in the wake of the child abuse sex scandal that has shaken the school. Spanier, according to a grand jury report, knew in 2002 that a graduate assistant had witnessed former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a young boy in a Penn State shower. Two other administrators who were told of the 2002 incident — Athletic Director Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, a vice-president for business and finance — stepped down Sunday and were charged with lying to the grand jury and failure to report a crime Monday. "

11/9/2011 2:36:19 PM

Why would Paterno even want this guy on his staff after allegations like these??? If he wasn't arrested back then, I would have surely fired his ass based on the allegations alone. I wouldn't want some alleged pederast on my coaching staff regardless. I don't care how innocent he was or how good he was at his job. You don't just bounce back from accusations like these. Let him go ahead and file a wrongful termination suit if he wants.

11/9/2011 2:44:10 PM

You do realize that Sandusky hasn't been a coach in almost 13 years, right?

11/9/2011 2:45:34 PM

^ Yet he still had access to facilities at PSU...strange that they wouldn't ban him from campus.

11/9/2011 2:47:39 PM

i agree they should've banned him from campus... guess that's why so many of the top university staff have already been cut loose

11/9/2011 2:51:33 PM

it sounds like they did, in theory

11/9/2011 2:51:56 PM

Timeline of events:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16049259/key-dates-in-penn-state-sex-abuse-case

11/9/2011 2:53:02 PM