page 2

8/29/2012 2:05:19 PM

ITT Big Chicks

[Edited on August 29, 2012 at 2:42 PM. Reason : :]

8/29/2012 2:41:53 PM

Quote :

"With rare exceptions, people cannot intentionally alter either their sexual orientation or their weight in a long-term way."

This is the mindset that's killing this country, and why everyone else fucking hates us.

8/29/2012 2:52:06 PM

8/29/2012 3:43:30 PM

http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/

8/29/2012 3:44:24 PM

Lots of fat people feeling bad about being fat yet trying to make excuses.

8/29/2012 3:45:27 PM

we're talking about being obese. not about being skinny.

[Edited on August 29, 2012 at 4:04 PM. Reason : ]

8/29/2012 3:45:27 PM

but is it legitimate obesity?

8/29/2012 3:46:28 PM

Quote :

"being fat* is unhealthy, costs us all, and yet it can be minimized by a good diet and exercise"

Quote :

"Gay is not a choice. Fat* is a choice about 85% 99% of the time. Perhaps an unconscious choice, but one nonetheless."

*fat = obese, not necessarily overweight

8/29/2012 4:03:41 PM

If Adele were skinny she wouldn't have as many painful breakups to bitch about on her album.

8/29/2012 4:04:19 PM

She also wouldnt be rolling in the deep.

Maybe just spinning or twirling.

8/29/2012 4:29:55 PM

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/fat-officially-incurable-according-to-science/

Quote :

"Let's get this straight: The number of people who go from fat to thin, and stay there, statistically rounds down to zero. Every study says so. No study says otherwise. None."

Before everyone starts getting this wrong, let's be clear about something - something being "incurable" doesn't mean it's genetic.

For an example of something incurable but non-genetic (or at least not entirely), look no further than homosexuality. Birth order affects likelihood of homosexuality. Birth order is 100% uncorrelated with the genetic pool someone's DNA is constructed from (unless you believe the epigenetics fad). Therefore, homosexuality is both incurable and non-genetic.

I find the most likely scenario to be that fat is simply raised. You can do things to a child that will make them a fat person or a skinny person. Sure, the fat person can lose weight, but as the above diatribe details, they're still fat, just temporarily thin and they'll gain it back. The body sets the weight it wants to be at and remembers it. By the time they're in high school, that weight is probably set.

8/29/2012 4:32:38 PM

Bullet in your homeland aren't Sumo celebrated as heroes?

8/29/2012 4:33:50 PM

To me

obese= medical term
overweight = 10-20lbs over ideal weight and euphemism for fat
fat = more than overweight but can often be used to describe obese people

8/29/2012 4:34:51 PM

This is adult obesity rates:



If you look at total obesity rates it softens the rise, because there are a lot of skinny people who grew up pre-1980 who stay thin. In fact, any given age group is the wrong way to look at it, because it's a changing population.

You should really consider that the people ages 20-30 will be ages 30-40 in 10 years. So these graphs of people 30-44 years is only really reflecting the flux - the skinny people graduating into the next age group and the 29-year-old fat people living another year to be counted at the age of 30.

8/29/2012 5:03:19 PM

i used to be fat because of poor life decisions

then i got in amazing shape and stayed that way for about a year


then my thyroid died and i'm fat again.




i'm on thyroid meds now, though. i'm heading in the right direction.

8/29/2012 5:19:23 PM

I disagree with the premise of that cracked article (posted on this page).

OK, the number of people who go from fat to thin may be close to zero, but what about the people who go from fat to a normal or less fat weight? The National Weight Control Registry has thousands of people who have lost weight and kept it off for years: http://www.nwcr.ws

8/29/2012 5:26:05 PM

While I also think that fat people are in control of their weight and can lose it if they wanted to (not all, but most fat people), it is actually very difficult to do so, and extremely difficult to maintain it.

And furthermore, fat people are not fully to blame for their condition. More and more research is showing that what the expectant mother eats during gestation pretty much sets in stone a lot of the future metabolism, weight, and dietary choices and tastes of the child well into adulthood. And this is without even considering what the child is fed in the first few years of its life by its parents. That also sets in stone the child's future weight and food likes/dislikes. And of course, for some, there is the genetic factor.

So if anything, fat adults' parents are more to blame for said adults' weight and food habits.

Those of lucky not to be fat can easily talk shit about fat people, but take the above into consideration next time.

Here, 5 page thread: FATTIES ARE DOOMED: message_topic.aspx?topic=479397

FATTIES ARE DOOMED, Part 2: message_topic.aspx?topic=490330

Quote :

""Exposure to a maternal junk food diet during their fetal and suckling life might help explain why some individuals might find it harder than others to control their junk food intake even when given access to healthier foods later in life.""

[Edited on August 29, 2012 at 5:51 PM. Reason : ]

8/29/2012 5:38:03 PM

Quote :

"And furthermore, fat people are not fully to blame for their condition. More and more research is showing that what the expectant mother eats during gestation pretty much sets in stone a lot of the future metabolism, weight, and dietary choices and tastes of the child well into adulthood. And this is without even considering what the child is fed in the first few years of its life by its parents. That also sets in stone the child's future weight and food likes/dislikes. And of course, for some, there is the genetic factor."

By the same token, murderers and rapists are not fully to blame for their condition. People don't just wake up and become violent killers, they are products of a society that has failed to intervene.

The debate on "nature vs. nurture" is fucking over. Nurture wins. Genes are not as deterministic as the popular media makes them out to be; genes switch on or off depending upon environmental stimulus.

There's not a person on the planet that defies the laws of thermodynamics. Not one. If I'm wrong, let's hook this person (who can't lose weight and keep it off, no matter what they do), to some kind of generator. Our energy problems are solved. We're going to extract infinite energy from this magical obese person that defies physical laws of the universe.

8/29/2012 5:54:03 PM

Quote :

"So if anything, fat adults' parents are more to blame for said adults' weight and food habits."

I am overweight, but neither or my parents or my siblings are overweight or have ever been overweight.

--

And FWIW, I have a brother who is a year younger than I am. He's trim, muscular, works out, and eats a diet with his workouts in consideration. We see the same doctor and had physicals within a month or so of one another. For the heck of it, we compared notes and lab results. Other than my weight and renal panel b/c I have a congenital kidney condition, my blood pressure, lipid panel, glucose levels, etc. came out better than his. I also do not have any joint problems (yet), but my little brother has daily discomfort. I don't think that thin or athletic necessarily equal healthiness. And while obesity is absolutely a long term health risk, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're a medical disaster. Hell, my grandmother was obese right up until her 70s and lived to be 91 with no more health problems than any other elderly person.

[Edited on August 29, 2012 at 6:06 PM. Reason : .]

8/29/2012 6:02:53 PM

wow his ego really is in fact big

8/29/2012 6:17:08 PM

Quote :

"By the same token, murderers and rapists are not fully to blame for their condition. People don't just wake up and become violent killers, they are products of a society that has failed to intervene."

Not the same. I am not talking about parents intervening, rather, the parents' actions (specifically the mother's during pregnancy) that basically determine their children's future actions and state. Did you read the articles in the linked threads?

Quote :

"Children whose mothers eat junk food during pregnancy and breastfeeding are more likely to overeat, choose an unhealthy diet and grow obese later in life"

Quote :

"I am overweight, but neither or my parents or my siblings are overweight or have ever been overweight."

Not talking about everybody here. And anyway, I am talking about what the mother ate during pregnancy and breastfeeding, and what parents fed the child in the child's early years, not whether the parents are overweight or not. And now you will come back and say your mother ate very healthy food in moderation when she was pregnant with you and fed you the same food. My answer to that will be: Not talking about everybody here, these are not mathematical rules that can apply to everybody who is fat.

8/29/2012 6:17:25 PM

I'm willing to bet that most, if not all, of the fat people on TWW are still more athletic than 0EPII1.

8/29/2012 6:30:27 PM

I used to be fat as shit and nobody made fun of me to my face

now that I'm average-sized, people make fun of me because my huge head doesn't fit my body

I believe Anti-big head: The new homophobia

8/29/2012 6:39:57 PM

it takes a lot of work to just maintain a "normal" body weight

as an adult anyway. once you creep on 30, maintaining the same body weight becomes a challenge. you can do it, but you just have to work harder /duh

8/29/2012 7:20:22 PM

Quote :

"And anyway, I am talking about what the mother ate during pregnancy and breastfeeding, and what parents fed the child in the child's early years, not whether the parents are overweight or not."

If the mother had poor eating habits during pregnancy and the child's early years, chances are she passed on the same bad habits to the kid. That's probably contributing to the kid's obesity later in life more than anything.

8/29/2012 7:40:36 PM

ITT: "Haha, fat people!"

8/29/2012 7:45:39 PM

People are fat because they eat shit and then go to their job and perform no physically exerting tasks for 8+ hours. It's not that hard to figure out.

And yes I use fat to refer to obese people, not slightly overweight people.

8/29/2012 7:51:20 PM

^^^ But they still have a choice. It's harder for them, yes. But it isn't so much harder that it is impossible for them to at least lose enough weight to lessen health risks. Many people act like it is. But most of the people we're talking about are making decisions to continue those bad habits regarding what they eat and whether they exercise. Many could at least be healthier/less obese if they decided their longevity and quality of life were important enough and dedicated themselves to the cause. I think the statistical round down to zero is largely because of the mindset that really fucking hard = impossible.

That said, I don't know what it's like to be obese, so I may be speaking out of turn. I was pretty fat as a child, though, raised on toaster pastries, Big Macs, Little Debbie snack cakes and Hamburger Helper. I understand that for some obese people, the mental fallout (the cravings, obsession, depression, etc.) from trying to "diet" is harder for them than accepting the health risks. I can't really judge anyone for deciding that. But most (legitimate thyroid issues, etc. excluded) could change. Difficult isn't impossible.

I still crave shit food sometimes. I still give in sometimes. I really hate running and most sports, but I've found types of exercise I love. And I have to work at balancing all of that to stay healthy. I know it's going to get much harder as I get older. I may well eat all these words someday. But I believe my health is more important than my bad habits, so I change them. Almost anyone can do that.

8/29/2012 8:10:47 PM

Quote :

"And FWIW, I have a brother who is a year younger than I am. He's trim, muscular, works out, and eats a diet with his workouts in consideration. We see the same doctor and had physicals within a month or so of one another. For the heck of it, we compared notes and lab results. Other than my weight and renal panel b/c I have a congenital kidney condition, my blood pressure, lipid panel, glucose levels, etc. came out better than his. I also do not have any joint problems (yet), but my little brother has daily discomfort. I don't think that thin or athletic necessarily equal healthiness. And while obesity is absolutely a long term health risk, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're a medical disaster. Hell, my grandmother was obese right up until her 70s and lived to be 91 with no more health problems than any other elderly person."

this is exactly why i said everyone ITT should release their medical records, because there are a few johnsons that act like only fat people can have health problems

you all act like you arent prescribed a bunch of drugs to correct the many health problems you have

[Edited on August 29, 2012 at 8:36 PM. Reason : r]

8/29/2012 8:35:03 PM

Exactly.

No one denies that obesity is a long term health risk. It often causes many health problems. But obesity does not guarantee those problems any more than maintaining a healthy weight guarantees continued well-being.

And even as a fat person, I have wondered how someone has allowed themselves to go so far. I have even wondered how I let myself get so far gone. BUT I do not think that your self esteem or how others perceive you should be impacted by the number on the scale. I think that is what the "Fat Acceptance" movement is about. The number on the scale is not a measure of worthiness or attractiveness. . .unfortunately, I think that many people fat and thin perceive it that way.

8/29/2012 11:53:53 PM

well said baby

8/29/2012 11:55:48 PM

In summary...

It's easier to change weight than to change sexual orientation.
Obesity is far more dangerous than homosexuality, especially to one's own health, but partially to the public.
Therefore, anti-obesity campaigns, unlike the old attempts to "cure" homosexuality, are not at their core motivated by bigotry (I mean there is some, but not in the advocacy of the medical community).

8/30/2012 12:46:02 AM

what the fuck are you saying?

8/30/2012 1:01:34 AM

Quote :

" Obesity is far more dangerous than homosexuality, especially to one's own health, but partially to the public. Therefore, anti-obesity campaigns, unlike the old attempts to "cure" homosexuality, are not at their core motivated by bigotry (I mean there is some, but not in the advocacy of the medical community)."

I disagree whole heartedly.

As a woman, as an openly bisexual woman, as very good friend of gay people, as someone who has had a great deal of involvement in public sexual health and well being, I have to disagree. If you're fat, you're fat. You are a danger to yourself. Fat is not contagious. You don't rub your fat up against someone and make someone else fat. You keep your fat to yourself.

While "gay" is not contagious and should really only involve yourself, there are some unfortunate realities that exist in the gay community. There are some pretty tough statistics out there for homosexuals, especially gay men. Now, personally, I don't think that it has anything to do with being "gay," but I think that it just has to do with being a man who has sex with other men. Not even anal sex, just a big ass sex drive without a great need for fidelity or emotional involvement. I have gay friends who openly discuss the problem with promiscuity in the gay community (not that it doesn't exist in the straight community). My very best friend, who is gay, has had syphilis and had a previous partner test HIV positive. It is just one of those things that you cannot neglect and your generalizations openly neglect.

8/30/2012 1:03:49 AM

Maintaining a healthy weight and at least decent physique certainly doesn't yield worth or happiness or attractiveness per se, but not doing so will certainly greatly negatively impact these things.

It's like a chain--if one link breaks, well, the chain is broken.

(just like you could be very fit, but a mindless, vapid dipshit--you'd suck, regardless of your muscular striations and VO2 max)

8/30/2012 1:07:42 AM

Quote :

"Fat is not contagious. You don't rub your fat up against someone and make someone else fat. You keep your fat to yourself."

Fat people will not be as motivated as long as they can find someone fatter in the room. It's not contagious, but it sure as hell drags down everyone else like a fat kid sitting in the middle of a goddamn bouncy castle.

8/30/2012 1:45:00 AM

ITT, I learned that obese gays have the worst lives.

8/30/2012 7:59:42 AM

I like the body acceptance movement for a couple of reasons.

1. It helps people feel better about themselves, and this is a good thing. The reality is that no (or very few) obese people are ever going to totally accept their body. Throughout daily life, there are constant reminders of your weight and how it's affecting you, and no amount of positive self-talk will allow you to avoid that reality. Furthermore, no obese person is ever going to sit back with a bucket of fried chicken just because they think their condition is beautiful and healthy. Yes, they may overeat, but it's not because they've made some attempt to accept their bodies. If anything, feeling better about yourself (somewhat accepting your body) may improve your ability to make good decisions about food and health.

2. Body acceptance applies to everyone, including people who aren't actually fat (but for some reason operate under the delusion that they are disgusting pigs). A lot of obese people can trace their problems with weight back to a moment in time when they were actually healthy and normal weight...but they wanted to be thinner with ripped abs or something so they embarked on a series of stupid programs that warped their metabolisms and their relationships with food. I have personally lost weight a number times throughout my life. And whenever I'm on a losing streak, people want to do know what I'm doing or how I've done it, but it's always people who are 10 or 15 pounds overweight (or not overweight at all). My best advice to them is to stop stressing about it and stop dieting. Starting a restrictive diet when you are a healthy weight (but haven't somewhat accepted your body) is an excellent way to actually end up fat.

[Edited on August 30, 2012 at 8:19 AM. Reason : ]

8/30/2012 8:17:57 AM

Quote :

"Fat is not contagious."

You sure?
http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/food/diet-nutrition/2010-11-05-obese05_ST_N.htm

Quote :

"Here, 5 page thread: FATTIES ARE DOOMED: message_topic.aspx?topic=479397 FATTIES ARE DOOMED, Part 2: message_topic.aspx?topic=490330"

We've already talked about genes in this thread, but these links ultimately go to blaming genes. If genes were at the root, then why wasn't American fat in the 50s?

Quote :

"I disagree with the premise of that cracked article (posted on this page). OK, the number of people who go from fat to thin may be close to zero, but what about the people who go from fat to a normal or less fat weight? The National Weight Control Registry has thousands of people who have lost weight and kept it off for years: http://www.nwcr.ws"

This is... mostly fair. Cracked was using the convenient wording of "thin", which hurts its point for anyone who took it seriously in the first place. I think the reverse can be said for a lot of propaganda about weight loss as well. Many programs will help you lose 10 lb, which isn't changing an obese person into a normal person.

Quote :

"No one denies that obesity is a long term health risk. It often causes many health problems. But obesity does not guarantee those problems any more than maintaining a healthy weight guarantees continued well-being."

I would make an even stronger statement than this. Obesity increases your relative risk of most disease. Such a statement alone tells you nigh nothing about a specific individual. It's only if you multiply total risk of a broad category by a factor of 4 or 5, then look at a large sample size is the difference even perceptible.

Quote :

"I think that is what the "Fat Acceptance" movement is about. The number on the scale is not a measure of worthiness or attractiveness. . .unfortunately, I think that many people fat and thin perceive it that way."

I know what I think fat acceptance should be about...

I have particular memory of the times I saw a friend shame a fat person. Sure, it's obviously counter-productive, but sometimes it's really really obviously "I am dumbstruck" kind of counter-productive. A great example is the heyday of DDR. We had a popular video game that involved using your feet, a strange consequence of this was that gamers, as a group, tend to be... fatter than normal. So by the grace of the flashing lights, many fat people started exercising. Many fat people lost weight.

It blew my mind that people complained about this. Their premise was that it's gross to see fat people sweating in arcades. This attitude is disturbingly pervasive in the same way that misogynistic sentiments are. The thinking goes that people in public owe you a certain appearance. If someone is fat they should avoid the beach, for instance. Why? Because guys go the the beach to ogle the women, you wouldn't want to ruin that for them, would you?

Not only are these toxic attitudes connected to misogyny, they're connected to homophobia. Richard Simmons was a great American hero. Fat people have their progress stalled because of embarrassment. The sheer existence of Richard Simmons made people feel less embarrassed about themselves. I think that the point where people feel like they don't have a duty to make fun of people like that is the point at which we have truly passed peak fatness. We probably have a long way to go.

[Edited on August 30, 2012 at 8:57 AM. Reason : ]

8/30/2012 8:57:02 AM

great post homie

8/30/2012 8:59:44 AM

you know why we're getting fatter?

1. Processed food.
2. A few other things that don't help.

You can't eat the way your body needs to eat from Food Lion or Harris Teeter and many people don't live near/can't afford proper markets. Even more people just don't know what eating right is because every generation is more removed from whole, natural, seasonal, minimally-processed food prepared in ways that don't wreck the nutritive value or skew its proportion from what the human body is optimized to accept. Hell, I'm only truly learning in the last couple years out of doing my own research and experimentation, not because of any prevailing cultural knowledge. It's aggravating. And I don't blame my gut on anyone but myself, the fact that my metabolism is reptilian in nature is my fault alone.

8/30/2012 9:20:48 AM

Being fat is not something you are born with. You get fat because you eat fucking ho-hos and lay on the couch watching snooki. Get off your fat ass, eat a salad, and your 'discrimination' will disappear.

8/30/2012 9:32:32 AM

I got fat because I went from being active year round with multiple sports, to severely injured and unable to do sports/activities, then to college (i.e. drinking heavily). Unfortunately, my diet didn't really change with my change in activity level, and I was never heavily active again (played some basketball and went to the gym some, but not nearly enough). By the time I realized that I hadn't really adjusted my diet, it was too late and I've been struggling since.

Though I've recently lost 20 pounds, but appear to be stuck there

[Edited on August 30, 2012 at 9:36 AM. Reason : .]

8/30/2012 9:36:00 AM

Quote :

"You can't eat the way your body needs to eat from Food Lion or Harris Teeter and many people don't live near/can't afford proper markets. "

yes you can. it's just that a majority of the population buys things that are ready-made-pop-it-in-the-oven-for-ten-minute meals rather than actually cooking.

me, i live on hotdogs and milk and beer.

8/30/2012 9:36:10 AM

if you're fat and convinced that you can't lose the weight, just ask yourself..."did you really try your best?" i'm sure there are some habits that could be adjusted (snacking, sitting around being lazy, etc.) that could help facilitate weight loss. yes, eating can be an addiction, blah...blah...blah... but lifestyle changes really do work. sure...blame society, blame the food companies, etc. but at the end of the day, it's your food you're putting on your fork that you're putting into your face and it's your ass that's on your couch. start the blame with yourself then work your way out once you can clear yourself of all responsibility.

8/30/2012 9:43:25 AM

^^Not really. Very little of the produce and meat at national grocery stores is non-GMO or truly organic. And most definitely not local (physiologially-speaking) or in season (wtf is your body going to do with tangerines, grapes, and bananas in February? Stitch those excess sugars into your winter coat.). You can certainly make MUCH better choices at these stores than shopping in the boxed/canned/shelf-lifed isles but it's still not going to give you what eating simple clean and local will.

[Edited on August 30, 2012 at 9:44 AM. Reason : sdgasfd]

8/30/2012 9:44:28 AM

Quote :

"You can't eat the way your body needs to eat from Food Lion or Harris Teeter and many people don't live near/can't afford proper markets."

Today, mrfrog learned he is both fat and poor

Quote :

"whole, natural, seasonal, minimally-processed food prepared in ways that don't wreck the nutritive value or skew its proportion from what the human body is optimized to accept."

"whole" - irrelevant
"minimally-processed" - well yeah
"natural" - redundant with minimally-processed

Although I agree that there are ways to process foods that will wreck the nutritional value of it, everyone who has advocated this to me has had a nutritional agenda that was frankly, complete bullshit.

Quote :

"I got fat because I went from being active year round with multiple sports, to severely injured and unable to do sports/activities, then to college (i.e. drinking heavily)."

I, too, put on the freshman 15. I kept them until I took a running class my senior year. Beer packs some major empty calories. I'm trying to transition to an only-hard-liquor policy. For my health.

[Edited on August 30, 2012 at 9:47 AM. Reason : ]

8/30/2012 9:44:28 AM

people in the 50s were all about some processed food. however, the generation before them was a) super fucking religious and tuned in to luxury = sin, and many of them almost starved to death in the great depression. In modern times serving sizes are completely out of whack and there's no good example of proper serving size anywhere. We're constantly inundated with advertising, pictures of food and restaurant food that can easily be 4 servings per plate and full of grease and all that. The food industry is by and large about profit, not promoting health, and people are being constantly manipulated. Just seeing all this food porn when you have no intention of eating anything remotely close to it them skews your concept of portion size.


Jobs where you sit on your ass all the time are the killer. I've seen some new studies that suggest sitting even an hour instructs your metabolism to take a snooze. and obviously this lifelong pattern of inactivity throughout most of the day is set up in the schools.

[Edited on August 30, 2012 at 9:58 AM. Reason : ]

8/30/2012 9:50:15 AM

explain to me how "whole" is irrelevant? It's entirely relevant.

minimally-processed and natural are similar but not synonymous.

I'm not advocating one of these "clean" fad diets like the paleo/caveman or whatever it's called...nothing against it, I haven't really researched many of them to be honest. I'm speaking from a general ideology--keep your calories, carbs, fats and protien in your diet, just make sure it's from clean and natural sources. Not a hard concept, but not easy to pull off in today's population centers.

[Edited on August 30, 2012 at 9:52 AM. Reason : ^ also good points]

8/30/2012 9:51:20 AM