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 Message Boards » » please build the tesla hyperloop in my lifetime Page [1] 2, Next  
The E Man
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san fran to la in 30 minutes
ny to la in 45 minutes
that means brickyard to hunt in 7 seconds

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/12/news/economy/hyperloop-elon-musk/index.html

8/12/2013 6:22:10 PM

Mr. Joshua
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I hope the hyperloop stations have ample Segway parking.

8/12/2013 7:58:04 PM

Str8BacardiL
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i want one from here to carolina beach

8/12/2013 8:17:31 PM

eyewall41
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Evacuated tube transport would be awesome but unfortunately we don't even have the bold vision to utilize maglev in this country.

EDIT: After reading that article their plan is a little different from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92dK_yxaKvk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McpWcn-1RZU

[Edited on August 12, 2013 at 11:06 PM. Reason : .]

8/12/2013 11:03:19 PM

The E Man
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that video reminded me about how the auto and oil industries will never let this happen. it will happen in europe or asia first

8/13/2013 2:05:33 AM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
"ny to la in 45 minutes"


That's for the ET3 project not the hyperloop

8/13/2013 7:43:36 AM

y0willy0
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Yeah, the evil corporations are the only problem with this idea.

Right.

I cant wait for the first accident where they have to identify the victims at a molecular level.

8/13/2013 10:06:53 AM

Doss2k
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If Elon Musk can get people to believe Tesla stock is worth $150 a share then I believe he can do anything!

8/13/2013 10:12:13 AM

FanatiK
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the hyperloop has nothing to do with Tesla (referring to the title of this post).

[Edited on August 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM. Reason : d]

8/13/2013 11:58:48 AM

Smath74
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it's the paypal spacex tesla hypermusk loop.

8/13/2013 12:07:25 PM

eyewall41
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Quote :
"That's for the ET3 project not the hyperloop"


I know, I noted it was different from the ET3 idea.

8/13/2013 12:32:09 PM

0EPII1
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Sf to la in 30 min? Too slow.

Anybody watch the extreme engineering episode on discovery channel like 10 years ago where they detailed an under ocean transatlantic tunnel (bolted to the seabed with flexible cables, so, suspended upwards) with a vacuum with 2 maglev trains running through it? They said it would cost 12 trillion dollars to make and would use all the steel output for one year of the world to make.

Traveling time?

54 minutes London to NY. (dinner in NY, dessert in London)

18 minutes each for acceleration, uniform speed travel @ MACH 8, and deceleration.

But thats like a 100 years away, if it is built. It would need to be built by dozens of countries and would require cooperation at the governmental level between all those countries. That pretty much precludes it from ever being built, even if the money was not an issue. And the 100 years is to start the project... it would need several decades, if not a century, to make.

I am sure there's a wikipedia entry on that episode.

P.S. Surprised no one has made this pun
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23681266 (see headline)


[Edited on August 13, 2013 at 6:49 PM. Reason : ]

8/13/2013 6:23:28 PM

Mr. Joshua
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Restaurants in London would quickly get tired of the New Yorkers showing up for dessert at 5AM.

8/13/2013 6:49:52 PM

0EPII1
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8/13/2013 6:50:54 PM

Vulcan91
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A little bit of cold water http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/loopy-ideas-are-fine-if-youre-an-entrepreneur/

8/13/2013 6:59:03 PM

The E Man
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Quote :
" It would need to be built by dozens of countries and would require cooperation at the governmental level between all those countries. That pretty much precludes it from ever being built, even if the money was not an issue. And the 100 years is to start the project... it would need several decades, if not a century, to make."

theres a good chance we have less than a handful of governments in the world by then anyway.

8/13/2013 8:51:28 PM

tl
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Quote :
"
Anybody watch the extreme engineering episode on discovery channel like 10 years ago where they detailed an under ocean transatlantic tunnel (bolted to the seabed with flexible cables, so, suspended upwards) with a vacuum with 2 maglev trains running through it? They said it would cost 12 trillion dollars to make and would use all the steel output for one year of the world to make.

Traveling time?

54 minutes London to NY. (dinner in NY, dessert in London)

18 minutes each for acceleration, uniform speed travel @ MACH 8, and deceleration."


It's not Mach 8 if you're in a vacuum.

8/18/2013 2:42:55 PM

UJustWait84
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would love to see it happen, but it won't

airline lobby and the litigious nature of CA will see to that

8/18/2013 2:44:21 PM

eleusis
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it won't happen because it's a stupid idea compared to high speed rail.

8/18/2013 5:02:31 PM

UJustWait84
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yeah it's really stupid that it'll cost less than high speed rail, get people places faster than HSR, and pose less environmental threats HSR.

HSR in CA is a fucking joke right now. If it ever gets built, it's going to cost 10x as much as predicted and it won't be affordable for the average traveler.

If you want any proof of how long/expensive things are to build in CA, look no further than the new span of the Bay Bridge. It's taken over 20 years and it's BILLIONS of dollars over budget, and they will be fixing it from the second it opens since some of its bolts have already sheared off and shock absorbers have failed.

8/18/2013 5:12:54 PM

eleusis
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you actually think a budget proposed by Elon Musk is going to be accurate? This thing will cost just as much to build as HSR, yet will carry far less people. It doesn't cross the bay either, which the HSR does. What's the point of the hyperloop if it only gets you close to your destination? Is there going to be a fleet of Tesla rentals at each end of the track to get you to your actual destination?

there is no way in hell that a pylon design is going to be cheaper than a concrete track bed along the ground. there is also no way in hell that they will allow cars to run on 30 second intervals, because the braking speeds would be ludicrous under emergency situations. When you take those intervals down to realistic times of 3-4 minutes, this thing now has about 5% the passenger capacity of high speed rail.

8/18/2013 5:53:29 PM

UJustWait84
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By that token, what's the point of SFO airport? It's like 30 mins from downtown SF. Why fly into SFO when it only gets you close, but not there?

8/18/2013 8:10:00 PM

eleusis
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the airport will take you almost anywhere in the world. This thing only takes you to one place, and that one place happens to be 30 miles away on the other side of a big body of water from where you would really want to be.

[Edited on August 18, 2013 at 8:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2013 8:12:42 PM

UJustWait84
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Ok. So you take a cab or BART into downtown SF. That'll take 45 mins max. Hayward is actually really centrally located in the Bay Area- 35 mins from SF, 20 mins from Oakland, 25 mins from San Jose.

You're still getting there faster than 2.5 hours.

This debate is dumb anyway. Budgeting aside and time constraints aside, this idea ain't gonna happen.

[Edited on August 18, 2013 at 8:20 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2013 8:15:56 PM

mrfrog

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I feel like I should add that California HSR is also useless, expensive, and will never be built.

It's not like the HSR plans are anywhere close to the city centers in the first place. It would still be a 30 minute drive on average for people taking it. All so that they can sit on a train that goes a little faster than the car they just drove to the station and parked. But only in certain segments. It depends on where they're going, but it'll probably be about as fast as their car. Unless you include wait times and delays, of course.

If you want public transportation between cities, make buses comfortable. Just install goddam beds.

8/22/2013 3:21:39 PM

The E Man
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car is too expensive, labor intensive and unsustainable
bus is too slow and too dangerous
plane is too environmentally damaging and stressful
train is too damn slow

we need a form of transportation that wasn't invented 100 years ago.

8/22/2013 3:37:09 PM

Vulcan91
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Quote :
"It's not like the HSR plans are anywhere close to the city centers in the first place. "


Huh? It will go into the Transbay Transit Center right in the heart of San Francisco and Los Angeles Union Station in downtown LA. Its south terminus will be San Diego Union Station which is downtown. The north terminus will be Sacramento Station, also downtown. The entire point is to connect center cities.

I'm not aware of anyone who has ever driven from San Francisco to Los Angeles in under 3 hours.

The wheel was invented several thousand years BC, so perhaps we should throw anything out using that as well. Modern high speed rail is new technology and does not exist at present in the United States (unless you count Acela, which is dubious).

The California High Speed Rail project will almost certainly come in absurdly over cost and well beyond schedule and will be another example of how great we have become at bungling any sort of attempt at a large scale public works project. But I believe it will get done and in the end will be hugely successful for California cities and travelers. It's just unfortunate that we are so inefficient at getting these things done, contrary to many of our counterparts in Europe and Asia.

[Edited on August 22, 2013 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

8/22/2013 3:40:28 PM

mrfrog

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"I'm not aware of anyone who has ever driven from San Francisco to Los Angeles in under 3 hours."


That's the full Phase 1 Blended, which will not be operational before 2029.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail#San_Francisco_to_San_Jose

And I mean "operational" in the same sense that the DEMO fusion reactor will be operational and providing power to the grid by 2029.

8/22/2013 4:02:53 PM

Vulcan91
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Not really a fair comparison, since the HSR project has already been designed and uses entirely existing technology that has been proven in countless other places.

The barriers to HSR in California are entirely political and bureaucratic. These same barriers would be faced by a technology like Hyperloop, in addition to the barriers that come with being no more than an idea drawn on a napkin facing countless technological hurdles.

8/22/2013 4:16:15 PM

0EPII1
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There is no way the hyper loop would cost just 6 bil, a realistic estimate IMO is at best 60 bil, and more realistically, 100 bil.

So if it ends up costing the same as the rail project, it is still a better bet as the travel times would be 1/5th. However, it is an unproven technology and needs to exist as a working model off paper before anybody would consider it seriously for a public project.

8/22/2013 6:28:19 PM

The E Man
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thats the problem. we're not willing to take risks anymore and thats why we're moving backwards as a nation. THIS (california) should be the working model and if it works then you carpet the country with it. if not then o well. imagine if this discussion was had about the space shuttle.

8/22/2013 8:03:03 PM

Vulcan91
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It doesn't even exist on paper right now. These sorts of ideas should absolutely be pursued and encouraged, but we cannot shelve current plans in order to wait around on technology that probably won't even be feasible for decades if not centuries. The problem is not that Musk has this idea, the problem is that he and others are using it to try and build opposition to HSR (imagine that, a guy who runs a car company is against HSR).

This would be more like saying in the 1920's that we shouldn't develop commercial airliners anymore because someone has an idea for a spacecraft.

8/22/2013 8:10:25 PM

The E Man
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spacecraft don't serve the same purpose as commercial airliners

and all it is a a little more complicated than a housed bullet train. what part of this do you think doesn't exist yet?

8/22/2013 8:18:53 PM

Vulcan91
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Traveling nearly the speed of sound in a near-vacuum is a hell of a lot more complicated than a "housed bullet train." The article I posted above (http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/loopy-ideas-are-fine-if-youre-an-entrepreneur/) does a much better job of pointing out the problems with the concept than I could.

8/22/2013 8:22:24 PM

The E Man
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Yeah but going to the moon also presents a lot of much more difficult problems. Some things you just have to say you're going to do and do it. Even if it costs the same it shouldn't even be a debate.

People are really saying this. "lets use ancient technology because if we use something modern and more efficient, we'll have to build it for the first time and it will end up costing just as much anyhow."

also you don't have to go to the center. downtown la is hardly a center as it is and the area around wherever this thing goes will redevelop.

you could build one into the desert and that area would explode with people who wanted the 30 minute commute to la for cheap.

[Edited on August 22, 2013 at 9:03 PM. Reason : scared to innovate]

8/22/2013 9:02:28 PM

UJustWait84
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You can't really blame people for not wanting to take risks. Why drop billions on something that could be a bust, when you could invest billions in something that's sure to pan out?

[Edited on August 22, 2013 at 9:12 PM. Reason : .]

8/22/2013 9:10:47 PM

mrfrog

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I'm against HSR rail proposals because they cost too much and their advocates are patently irrational.

It wouldn't matter what the proposal was, if it cost so-many billions for transporting so-much of the nation's trips, the answer is "no". It's always "no", because our economy is driven by costs. Costs are not a meaningless metric.

You could make crazy assumptions about the price of gas and EVs in the future, but if you do that, you should go buy oil futures. Go. Get on it. And even if gas became super expensive, is HSR good compared to the alternatives? And no, it isn't. We can go back to using buses.

Quote :
"and all it is a a little more complicated than a housed bullet train. what part of this do you think doesn't exist yet?"


It's about the bearings. A train is held up by steel wheels. A car is held up by inflated wheels. The Hyperloop is held up by a combination of ground effect and hovercraft.

There are actually decent ideas for ground-effect transportation systems. However, they initially appear terrifying. Because of that, not many people will fund it. I think that an adjustment of the Hyperloop using only the ground effect would be viable. Perhaps at ambient pressure.

8/22/2013 9:14:33 PM

0EPII1
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Silly CNN
Quote :
"That's a roughly 350-mile trip, meaning the futuristic capsules would be zipping along at almost 700 mph -- faster than most commercial airliners and slightly less than the speed of sound."


I didnt know there were any commercial airliners going at 700 or above

8/28/2013 2:12:35 PM

dtownral
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silly OEP, read it again

8/28/2013 3:07:29 PM

0EPII1
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No you read it again.

"Faster than most commercial airliners"

Most? Or all?

8/28/2013 3:28:36 PM

Vulcan91
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The Concorde had a top speed of over 1,300 MPH, but then again it's been out of service for a decade.

8/28/2013 3:36:13 PM

David0603
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde

[Edited on August 28, 2013 at 3:42 PM. Reason : yep, too slow]

8/28/2013 3:41:54 PM

0EPII1
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Holy shit CONCORDE.... WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT???

Seriously?

[Edited on August 28, 2013 at 4:03 PM. Reason : I have know about the Concorde since 1985]

8/28/2013 3:58:14 PM

0EPII1
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Ok, so the CA HR won't be operational till the mid to late 2020s, and still, it's average speed will be between 120 and 180 mph... seriously?

That's like a rich country without Internet right now looking at implementing Internet, and going for dial up... And that even, around 15 years from now!

If you are going to spend all those dozens of billions, might as well do it properly, like the Chinese, Japanese, and the Europeans. The clips below are breathtaking and surreal, and are only about a minute long each.


302 mph
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=FBGCus9zZ30

245 mph
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=gbd8vgEFCE8

357 mph
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sE4A0nPjyqQ&feature=related

311 mph
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k_eT4zq8eO0&feature=related

And the links below show pics and give details of the fastest trains in service around the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/journeysbyrail/10100199/The-worlds-fastest-train-journeys.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-10-fastest-trains-in-the-world-2012-11
http://www.livescience.com/37736-worlds-fastest-trains-maglev-train.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/12/tech/innovation/hyperloop-fastest-trains


Ok, a couple of the ones in the video links are not in-service trains, just experimental, but by the mid to late 2020s, when the CA HSR will be running at 150-200 mph, the countries I mentioned would have gone to 300-350 mph easily.

The current fastest long distance in service train in the world (it is wheeled) runs at a top speed of some 236 mph in China. The fastest in-service train is the short-distance maglev from Shaghai airport to city center which hits 268 mph, but is capable of 302mph.

So imagine where they would reach by the mid to late 2020s.

It just baffles my mind... I thought the US was the center of research and innovation? Quite embarrassing to think that 15 years from now, HS trains in the US will be doing 200 mph, when they are going much faster than that right now, in China, the world's leading producer of junk!

[Edited on August 28, 2013 at 4:58 PM. Reason : ]

8/28/2013 4:57:05 PM

Vulcan91
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Quote :
"I thought the US was the center of research and innovation"


Well there's where you thought wrong. Certainly not with transportation unless it is a car or a missile delivery system.

Throw China out of the equation right off the bat because they are pouring absolutely absurd amounts of money into infrastructure (people think our government is spending at an unsustainable pace... it's nothing compared to China).

As for Europe and Japan, which are more reasonable comparisons, they have a commitment to high speed rail and more than that infrastructure spending in general that we simply do not.

2% of our federal budget goes to transportation infrastructure. In Germany that number is 9%. Switzerland 14%.

Obama is the first President to ever truly take the idea of a modernized national rail system seriously, but unfortunately the consequence of that means it immediately became an extremely polarizing political issue.

The fact that California has come as far as it has is almost a miracle.

I would also take a closer look at some of the numbers. California's system will have a top speed of 220 MPH. Most of the numbers you are citing are top speeds, and the average speeds are drastically lower. The California system will be very comparable to some of the high end present day systems in Europe in Asia, but as you mentioned, by the time trains are rolling many of those other countries will have already taken things to the next level. That's the reality we are in sadly as we are playing catchup. We had a passenger rail system that was the best in the world and we abandoned it.

8/28/2013 5:29:11 PM

0EPII1
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http://www.policymic.com/articles/78387/this-train-would-get-you-from-d-c-to-baltimore-in-15-minutes-but-america-will-never-build-it

1/9/2014 11:23:47 AM

Kris
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^The only way I would ride it is if it got me out of DC and Baltimore.

1/9/2014 12:55:24 PM

dtownral
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What does everyone think of Japan offering to pay for half of a California high speed rail project?

1/9/2014 1:11:44 PM

Fry
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note that the article says they'd pay for half "in the form of loans".
it does seem to be an odd/interesting proposal though.

1/9/2014 6:02:27 PM

0EPII1
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http://www.wired.com/2015/08/elon-musk-hyperloop-project-is-getting-kinda-serious/

8/20/2015 6:40:06 PM

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