Quote :

"So I guess we should just ask the representative of all native Americans what he thinks and then it'll be "case-closed"!"

he said "consensus". are you the leader of all native americans? because you seem to have no problem with representing your opinion as theirs.

how's this for consensus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_controversy#Native_Americans_and_organizations_opposed

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2014 3:31:36 PM

um, i never gave my opinion.

6/18/2014 3:37:49 PM

Do teachers and professors accept Wikipedia as a valid source of information these days?

6/18/2014 3:40:32 PM

^
am i writing an article for 8th grade social studies or am i talking on the internet?

that wikipedia article is sourced. i'm not gonna post the links bc this is something you should learn to do on your own.

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2014 3:43:39 PM

from the Oklahoma wiki article:

Quote :

"The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people. Choctaw Chief Allen Wright suggested the name in 1866 during treaty negotiations with the federal government regarding the use of Indian Territory, in which he envisioned an all-Indian state controlled by the United States Superintendent of Indian Affairs. Equivalent to the English word Indian, okla humma was a phrase in the Choctaw language used to describe the Native American race as a whole. Oklahoma later became the de facto name for Oklahoma Territory, and it was officially approved in 1890, two years after the area was opened to white settlers.[9][16][17]"

that's just a bit different than an overt racist naming his professional football team

6/18/2014 3:45:26 PM

"colored" wasn't offensive 150 years ago either

6/18/2014 3:46:36 PM

ok so the ORIGIN and ORIGINAL INTENT is what matters to everyone, not just the words and inferred meaning or weight?

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 4:27 PM. Reason : ...]

6/18/2014 3:59:02 PM

isn't that how words work?

6/18/2014 4:06:11 PM

6/18/2014 4:09:54 PM

so when's notre dame changing their team name?

6/18/2014 4:12:30 PM

I wish I knew what exactly it is about sports that throws rational thought and common decency out of the window

this shouldn't be that difficult

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 4:17 PM. Reason : that doesn't mean I'm not guilty of it, btw]

6/18/2014 4:14:17 PM

Quote :

"isn't that how words work?"

maybe for some, but let's get real about the broader populace

6/18/2014 4:26:50 PM

Quote :

"[quote]ok so the ORIGIN and INTENT is what matters to everyone, not just the words and inferred meaning or weight?"

no, what? what's important is how it makes people feel (inferred meaning). language evolves.

it's not like this is some fringe fairykin group we're dealing with, either, so don't pull the "well everyone's offended by something" card

what if it were the washington coloreds?

6/18/2014 4:37:21 PM

i never thought that redskin was meant as a derogatory term. just like saying someone is black or white isn't derogatory. but i don't have red skin.

6/18/2014 4:51:16 PM

Washington Wopdagos

6/18/2014 4:52:49 PM

Quote :

"i never thought that redskin was meant as a derogatory term. just like saying someone is black or white isn't derogatory. but i don't have red skin."

even if it isn't innately offensive (i don't know either), what if there was a team called the Philadelphia Blacks, with a cartoon black person as their logo?

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 4:56 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2014 4:55:40 PM

good point

6/18/2014 4:56:29 PM

We should force private businesses to change their name/marketing/franchise every time some insignificantly small percentage of the population is offended by some representation of said private business.

How can anyone have a problem with this?

6/18/2014 5:01:29 PM

St. Louis Browns OMG RACIST!!!







[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 5:05 PM. Reason : resize]

6/18/2014 5:03:21 PM

Do we have any native Americans here on TWW?


I think I know of one, but I think their heritage (as well as other personal things about them) they choose to keep off of TWW, so I'm not going to blow up his spot.

6/18/2014 5:08:34 PM

Quote :

"We should force private businesses to change their name/marketing/franchise every time some insignificantly small percentage of the population is offended by some representation of said private business. How can anyone have a problem with this?"

would you be ok with a team going by the name of the Nashville Niggers?

because the people who are directly affected/offended by the name Redskin equate it to "nigger"

and they've done exactly what people are usually told to do when they have a problem with something. they've contacted their representatives, who in a time of political insanity, are actually representing their constituents, and have garnered support from other representatives on both sides of the aisle.

also, this is all over a name. what gets lost if that name is changed?

6/18/2014 5:37:19 PM

Quote :

"because the people who are directly affected/offended by the name Redskin equate it to "nigger""

I'm not so sure of that


And where is the line? How many people have to be offended by something before the government starts using it's own agencies to force their agenda upon private businesses/entities? And how offended do they have to be? Genocide level? Discrimination? Annoyance?

6/18/2014 5:45:32 PM

it's becoming apparent that most who aren't seeing why there should be a name change haven't really read up on the subject at all

this is on page one of this thread and is a good summary of everything:

http://grantland.com/features/rename-washington-redskins/

this as well:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/letter-from-red-cloud-indian-school-on-the-washington-redskins-name/2013/10/11/e24044ba-32bc-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 5:51 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2014 5:48:17 PM

Quote :

"also, this is all over a name. what gets lost if that name is changed?"

Millions and millions of dollars in branding, advertising, and marketing. It's way more than just switching a word on the company letterhead. This is an extremely expensive change to make just because a few people are upset.

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 5:52 PM. Reason : forgot quote]

6/18/2014 5:51:48 PM

so no money would be made by selling apparel featuring the new name/logo?

I forgot that teams have never changed their look before in an effort to sell more apparel

6/18/2014 5:55:57 PM

Just change the name to:
The Washington Redskins [no racist]

There...problem solved.

6/18/2014 6:48:20 PM

Quote :

"And where is the line? How many people have to be offended by something before the government starts using it's own agencies to force their agenda upon private businesses/entities? And how offended do they have to be? Genocide level? Discrimination? Annoyance?"

i don't agree with the government stepping in, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't change it

6/18/2014 6:49:06 PM

For the record, the Patent and Trademark office revoking the term "Redskins" as a registered trademark is not, and has nothing to do with, changing the teams name. I think talk of the government stepping in and mandating a name change is premature as far as current events go...

[Edited on June 18, 2014 at 7:10 PM. Reason : malt of schlitz, and hooker spit]

6/18/2014 7:07:55 PM

If you would feel uncomfortable walking up to a group of indians and saying "What's up Redskins?", then you have your answer on whether or not it's offensive.

6/19/2014 7:28:35 AM

Quote :

"Millions and millions of dollars in branding, advertising, and marketing. It's way more than just switching a word on the company letterhead. This is an extremely expensive change to make just because a few people are upset."

so you're worried about the extremely profitable NFL team's ability to pay for this? that's your main concern over this?

6/19/2014 8:02:13 AM

can thegoodlife3 be banned for saying the N word?

he says it a lot under the guise of faux outrage.

probably more than most users.

getting a little tired of him white guilting every thread and saying the N word as much as possible.

6/19/2014 8:43:27 AM

Quote :

"so you're worried about the extremely profitable NFL team's ability to pay for this? that's your main concern over this?"

No, I'm not worried about it at all. I just answered the question of what gets "lost" in a name change.

That it's an extremely profitable organization, or a franchise NFL team should not matter. It's private business being strong-armed by the government to spend a substantial amount of money where they obviously don't want to.

No one has yet stepped forth and articulated where exactly we draw the line on this type of behavior. How many people have to be offended before the government steps in? How do you define offensive and in what context? What sort of precedent does this set from a legal perspective? Does this infringe on the franchise's rights?

Everyone is all gung-ho to hop on this bandwagon but where this should really be settled is through sponsorship boycotts, public pressure on the NFL, and the court of public opinion. Not through government intervention.

[Edited on June 19, 2014 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

6/19/2014 8:57:17 AM

http://deadspin.com/appeal-board-rules-against-redskins-cancels-trademark-1592527430

The opinion is in that link. It lays it out pretty clearly.

6/19/2014 9:07:33 AM

Quote :

"can thegoodlife3 be banned for saying the N word? he says it a lot under the guise of faux outrage. probably more than most users. getting a little tired of him white guilting every thread and saying the N word as much as possible."

And

Quote :

"so you're worried about the extremely profitable NFL team's ability to pay for this? that's your main concern over this?"

Profitable? Ha. The NFL is a "non-profit" organization.

6/19/2014 9:14:16 AM

Quote :

"The record establishes that, at a minimum, approximately thirty percent of Native Americans found the term REDSKINS used in connection with respondent's services to be disparaging at all times including 1967, 1972, 1974, 1978 and 1990. Section 2(a) prohibits registration of matter that disparages a substantial composite, which need not be a majority, of the referenced group. Thirty percent is without doubt a substantial composite. "

Yeah, I think that's enough for me to know if it's offensive or not.

Quote :

"Profitable? Ha. The NFL is a "non-profit" organization."

Ha. The Washington Redskins aren't the NFL.

[Edited on June 19, 2014 at 9:16 AM. Reason : .]

6/19/2014 9:15:14 AM

6/19/2014 9:21:09 AM

Quote :

"No one has yet stepped forth and articulated where exactly we draw the line on this type of behavior. How many people have to be offended before the government steps in? How do you define offensive and in what context? What sort of precedent does this set from a legal perspective? Does this infringe on the franchise's rights?"

no one so far has said that the government should step in

obviously the line of offense is a gray area, but when you cross into national outrage and offending an entire race, probably a good idea to give it up

6/19/2014 9:23:17 AM

I'd love to see how they arrived at that 30% number.

6/19/2014 9:24:37 AM

Quote :

"national outrage and offending an entire race, probably a good idea to give it up"

National outrage? I hate to break it to you, but this nation is not outraged over the name of the Washington DC based football team.

Also, 30% is not an entire race. It's not even half. It's not even a third.

[Edited on June 19, 2014 at 9:26 AM. Reason : sry dbl post]

6/19/2014 9:26:01 AM

Quote :

"If you would feel uncomfortable walking up to a group of indians and saying "What's up Redskins?", then you have your answer on whether or not it's offensive."

Well, to be honest, I'd feel uncomfortable walking up to a group of indians and saying "What's up Indians/Native Americans/Cherokees/Whatever".

I'd also be a little uncomfortable walking up to a group of people and saying "What's up Whites/Caucasians/Blacks/African Americans/Chinese/Etc."

6/19/2014 9:26:05 AM

Quote :

"Well, to be honest, I'd feel uncomfortable walking up to a group of indians and saying "What's up Indians/Native Americans/Cherokees/Whatever". I'd also be a little uncomfortable walking up to a group of people and saying "What's up Whites/Caucasians/Blacks/African Americans/Chinese/Etc.""

would you reference native americans as redskins in their presence?

aka "that black guy over there" vs. "that redskin over there"

[Edited on June 19, 2014 at 9:31 AM. Reason : .]

6/19/2014 9:30:40 AM

Quote :

"Do we have any native Americans here on TWW?"

i don't know, but i bet there are some pretendians.

6/19/2014 9:56:33 AM

Quote :

"would you reference native americans as redskins in their presence? aka "that black guy over there" vs. "that redskin over there" "

[NO]

It's an antiquated term that's really only ever used to reference the football team nowadays.

6/19/2014 9:58:35 AM

seriously, rjrumfel?

6/19/2014 12:37:22 PM

maybe this is because of my "white privilege", but the only association my brain has EVER made with the word "redskin" is to the NFL team, the potatoes, but most directly the peanuts.

6/19/2014 1:43:06 PM

6/19/2014 3:27:12 PM

^^^What?

Oh nm

I don't use the n word neither should you. No matter the context. Banlocksuspenddelete



[Edited on June 19, 2014 at 3:35 PM. Reason : jhgl]

6/19/2014 3:34:33 PM

you sure were quick to agree with something you had no evidence to back up

shocking

6/19/2014 3:38:14 PM

You know what. We should also shut down all of those tourists traps in Cherokee, everywhere - the toy tomahawks and headdresses they sell are mockeries of Native Americans. That offends me.

6/19/2014 3:43:51 PM

Quote :

"Do we have any native Americans here on TWW?"

I'm 1/8 Native American, which is hardly Native American at all, obviously.

I've never seriously examined my feelings about the Redskins. But now, considering the matter from a Native American perspective, I find myself thinking, "Don't be naming a team after my race, you bastards!" I actually feel offended and demeaned by the Redskins' name all of a sudden, actually, for the first time in my life. This is very strange.

6/19/2014 3:54:36 PM