I love reading an arghx post with my morning coffee.

7/18/2014 7:35:36 AM

I mean it was informative but I assumed what he said I mean they aren't going to rig up an estimate that a third party would have to that doesn't have a climate controlled dyno room with every variable being monitored.

What I was getting at is even though they don't publish the info I'm pretty sure they get bsfc for every engine. Like the map shown above. This would lead me to believe that marketing number was probably something discovered in that testing.

I mean the pumps on my car will total 4 gpm @ 60psi and I were to compare to their number I'd have to do injector duty cycle * injector flow rate and even that is a nominal number.

7/18/2014 11:18:09 AM

BSFC maps are generated with steady state average points. Let me put it this way. The marketing number would make more sense if the car had a CVT that instantly went to the peak power rpm and stayed there. That's how BSFC curves are established. It's something totally counter intuitive. The idea of an engine running full load at a steady speed doesn't happen in the real world, except with a CVT or an extreme towing condition.

7/18/2014 3:25:00 PM

Yeah so my thought was if they were testing bsfc they rand the motor wide open for a while and said holy shit... Then did some math and figured out what that equates to in the car.

7/18/2014 3:27:11 PM

Charger Hellcat confirmed.


And apparently buyers are lining up for this car already.

7/30/2014 9:31:39 AM

Now grand Cherokee hellcat...

I've seen more of those in the 9s then the two cars combined (srt-8grands)

7/30/2014 10:26:58 AM

Think the transmission can handle it?

7/30/2014 10:50:07 AM

Nope.. But.... Engineers...

7/30/2014 11:21:22 AM

fuck that mess

is the venerable 48RE the same bolt pattern?

7/30/2014 11:38:29 AM

first drives rolling in...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1407_2015_dodge_challenger_srt_hellcat_first_test/

Quote :

"Conclusion. Get some fatter, stickier rear meats for the Challenger Hellcat and it really does have the intestinal fortitude to embarrass cars costing double and triple the price. A retired and wheeled Hellcat would probably smack that Shelby around pretty good, too. Until then, Hellcat owners can happily chew on the knowledge that the next cheapest 700-horsepower steed in existence is the $322,638, 731-hp Ferrari F12 Berlinetta. More important, I've driven both cars and would much rather drive the Hellcat. I've also spent a great deal of time in the Shelby GT500. And the Viper. And the ZL1. Hellcat, hands down. Hats off to the Dodge boys. They've built an all-timer."

7/31/2014 9:51:28 AM

just what we need on the highway - a 700hp car with shit handling.

7/31/2014 1:27:36 PM

who the fuck needs good handling on the highway?

7/31/2014 2:58:26 PM

i'm more worried about the people in chit chat who can't even keep a constant speed without using cruise control or watching the speedometer

7/31/2014 3:12:33 PM

^yeah.


in before Igor complains of excessive HP

7/31/2014 3:43:04 PM

^^the people who thinks a 700hp car gives them the ability to weave in and out of congested traffic on a multi-lane highway - aka the majority of people who would buy this thing.

7/31/2014 3:43:27 PM

broad brush, keep painting.

7/31/2014 4:34:57 PM

^^ racist

7/31/2014 9:55:19 PM

^^^wow you really hate people. Some rag scribes are calling this one of the most fun cars they've ever driven, but you're probably right. Only idiots will buy this car.

8/1/2014 8:38:31 AM

^that's mostly right, but then again most people are idiots, thus most car owners are idiots. giving stupid people tools to magnify their stupid is generally dangerous

8/1/2014 1:53:31 PM

still, sweeping statements that apply to may situations.


This is about appreciating an American 'muscle' car with the highest rated output ever for a production car.

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM. Reason : -]

8/1/2014 2:11:12 PM

I appreciated the Fox body mustangs for their high power-to-weight ratio, but I still hate Ford for intentionally selling that beast knowing it had horrible snap oversteer from the factory. This is no different; car writers are trying to gently say that the car has undersized tires and horrible handling dynamics from the factory. It's pretty shitty of Dodge to design a car with the sole purpose of winning a horsepower war without giving much consideration to how to make the car handle that power.

This isn't like when the Dodge Dart of the sixties where Chrysler decided to shoehorn a 426 hemi into a stripped down car for drag strip use only. Those cars were sold as not DOT legal from the factory, and even then they braced up the suspension so drivers could keep them pointed in the right direction.

8/1/2014 5:00:04 PM

no amount of suspension tuning will make a 700hp not able to bite you if you are are driving it like an idiot

8/1/2014 5:18:07 PM

^^completely agree. my boss' SRT-8 challenger 475hp comes with 245s in the back. It borders with unsafe to handle that much power. '95 m3 was the most crashed sporty car in 1995 because of the square 235s setup. BMW got sued over it and as a result '96 and up models came with staggered setup 225/245 to reduce oversteer. sadly, square setup on '95 was bunch better, but regardless....MFG can definitely make this unsafe as they have in the past.

8/1/2014 7:29:08 PM

you're implying that the hellcat Challgner is unsafe with traction and stability control off or actually unsafe with it on? If it's the latter, well then I'm sure somebody would complain if it intervened too much. You can't please everybody.

My CTS-V allows a ton of wheelspin and ass end sliding with traction and stability control still fully on. It's not for the faint of heart, and it's dangerous in the snow even with snow tires.

8/1/2014 11:32:10 PM

As I said above..... Hellcat Grand Cherokee....

It would be the perfect kind of crazy

8/2/2014 6:36:25 AM

^^im essentially saying that it is retarded to build an undertired car with that much power.

8/2/2014 1:38:52 PM

undertired... well does the customer want to pay a gazillion dollars every 10000 miles for new tires? Consumer reports comes back in a year and now you've got complaints of tire life in addition to inevitable fuel economy complaints. Or how about magazines bitching about unsprung weight. Plus if you have better grip it just encourages people to customers to abuse the drivetrain and start making warranty claims.

Who's going to pay for even larger or more expensive tires? Are you going to raise the price of the vehicle, or take a margin hit on a low volume product that has a high likelihood of losing money for the company anyway?

If it's got wheelspin issues in stock form, use the traction and stability control. That's what it's there for.

8/2/2014 2:08:57 PM

http://youtu.be/91jRLQa5U8E

Dear 1 in a couple....

At anytime in that video does the car not look balanced?

You do know that contact patch size has more to do with tire pressure than width right?

8/2/2014 3:19:10 PM

looks to drive like a couch with a lot of body roll and constantly rolling the tire. i'm also very curious to see how many laps it can handle before it starts to heat soak. im saying this as someone disappointed with how their e90 m3 performs similarly on track.

8/2/2014 7:14:46 PM

This car is designed to burn tires, drop panties, and fix impotence. This is not a car people are buying for track days at VIR. You guys are ridiculous.

8/2/2014 7:22:00 PM

The only roadcourse this one is going to see is the 1/4 mile straights.

8/2/2014 8:24:09 PM

they need to offer it in panther pink

8/2/2014 10:21:07 PM

Quote :

"undertired... well does the customer want to pay a gazillion dollars every 10000 miles for new tires? Consumer reports comes back in a year and now you've got complaints of tire life in addition to inevitable fuel economy complaints. Or how about magazines bitching about unsprung weight. Plus if you have better grip it just encourages people to customers to abuse the drivetrain and start making warranty claims. Who's going to pay for even larger or more expensive tires? Are you going to raise the price of the vehicle, or take a margin hit on a low volume product that has a high likelihood of losing money for the company anyway? If it's got wheelspin issues in stock form, use the traction and stability control. That's what it's there for."

Exactly. That's why Dodge Hellcat, cheetah, tiger, badass puma, leopard or whatever else retarded, boastful name they give will never be a car it should BE and nowhere near performance of other decent domestic like vette, viper, new z28, let alone germans. It will be just that...cost cutting bullshit with skinny ass tires and wheel gap to fit a small animal inside of it, so rednecks who dont know any better will do burnouts.

More width in the back on this much power can only be safer and people who pay $70k or whatever this car ends up being will likely not worry about fuel or tire cost coming from their F350 dually.

Quote :

"You do know that contact patch size has more to do with tire pressure than width right?"

nimrod, contact patch is the same regardless of tire size. what matters is how the area of that contact patch is shaped and thats where wider tired matters.

get my drift?

[Edited on August 4, 2014 at 2:08 AM. Reason : j]

8/4/2014 2:03:39 AM

would the auto make it any more controllable ?

8/4/2014 2:19:26 AM

^^ you dug deeeeep to pull that out of your ass.

8/4/2014 5:56:45 AM

Quote :

"This car is designed to burn tires, drop panties, and fix impotence. This is not a car people are buying for track days at VIR. You guys are ridiculous."

8/4/2014 7:30:02 AM

Some of these guys are just butt hurt that it will beat their BMWs around a track.

The tire set up for this car is a square 275 set up. Pretty sure those are the widest tires they could fit without making some big modifications.

Also, I'm a bit surprised nobody in here is calling out AMG for "under tiring" their cars. Almost every AMG that has been sold could use more rear tire (until they started making them AWD). Looks like more domestic car bias here, again.

8/4/2014 8:32:34 AM

Doesn't it still have a W211 rear end and a w220 front end or has it been updated?

If so whith 700 hp it's pretty much a fankin- e/cl 65 amg

8/4/2014 8:50:14 AM

^^ I wish it would beat a bmw around a track so bmw would stop marking aston martin/jaguar style show before go cars (see 6 series) and get their shit together

8/4/2014 9:58:31 AM

until BMW starts re-making the e30 with an updated drive train, no one will be happy

and they will still be upset if the new drive train makes it heavier or contains a black box

8/4/2014 10:41:35 AM

^^^pretty sure yes

^^Don't most people consider the M6 coupe car to be a better M car than the M5?

8/4/2014 12:31:57 PM

Quote :

"Also, I'm a bit surprised nobody in here is calling out AMG for "under tiring" their cars. Almost every AMG that has been sold could use more rear tire (until they started making them AWD). Looks like more domestic car bias here, again."

That is true. C63 AMG has 255s in the back which is way undertired for 450hp. To put that into perspective that's the same rears as E46 ZHPi with 230hp.

E39 M5 comes with just about half of the HP of hellcat and stock 275s rears and that was 15 years ago. E39 M5 shares the rear rim width with new hellcat. C6 had 285s. New Z28 with 305s. I will not mention 911 here since it would be apples to oranges due to engine being in the back, but cmon Dodge put some meat there.

Also, 11.2@125mph with 707hp tells you it is undertired. That's the same time as C6 Z06 with 200hp less, but with 325s to hook

[Edited on August 4, 2014 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

8/4/2014 3:15:01 PM

shrug?

you'd shit your pants if you saw my setup - 255's with ~60/40 distribution, 539 to the wheels

8/4/2014 6:43:31 PM

Quote :

" It will be just that...cost cutting bullshit with skinny ass tires and wheel gap to fit a small animal inside of it, so rednecks who dont know any better will do burnouts."

Dodge/SRT already has an expensive high performing car with big tires that doesn't sell. It's called the Viper. They've already cut production on it. The people on internet forums who scream for things like ginormous tires are not the people who will ever buy these cars new. They want something that's easier for them to mess with in 6 years when it's way off warranty and on its 4th owner.

As for cost cutting, do you know how much money it costs to design an engine variant (and supporting chassis) that hardly anybody is going to buy? SRT is a vanity brand to please the faithful. That 60k nominal sticker price is amazing, even if the transaction cost varies from that.

We're lucky people are buying Ram trucks because with them these cars wouldn't exist, because they lose so much money and draw major resources from an automaker that's not exactly GM or VW in its resources.

[Edited on August 4, 2014 at 10:15 PM. Reason : only thing that sucks more money from a major automaker are electric cars]

8/4/2014 10:13:25 PM

Arghx are they going to give us a 6 speed charger?

Puhlease? If so maybe someday if not I'll keep looking for ctsv wagons.

8/6/2014 9:05:05 AM

^ doesn't sound like it

http://jalopnik.com/the-707-hp-dodge-charger-srt-hellcat-the-worlds-most-p-1620758434

Quote :

"The mad scientists at SRT shocked the world this summer by bringing us the Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat, the most muscular muscle car ever, which packs a stonking 707 horsepower supercharged Hemi V8. Now, in the ultimate proof that you can have your cake and eat it too, it comes in four door form. ?I'm Amazed I Didn't Die Driving The Hellcat On Track I really can't overstate the torrential downpour engulfing Portland International Raceway… Read more The eagerly-awaited Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat is being unveiled right now at a special Chrysler event at the Vinsetta Garage on Woodward Avenue. And like its sibling, it also has a 6.2-liter supercharged V8 with 707 horsepower and 650 pound-feet of torque. I'll say that again: you can get a sedan with 707 horsepower straight from the factory. It is both mind-boggling and mildly terrifying, which is how I like things. "This is a car most brands would never bring to market," Dodge CEO Tim Kuniskis said. "This is a car that you absolutely cannot build a business case for. But sometimes, you need to stop listening to the focus groups. Sometimes you need to build a car that defines itself." It defines itself by a 204 mph top speed, an 11 second quarter mile time on street tires, and the ability to drain its fuel tank in just 13 minutes. More on this car as we get it, including better photos. Update 1: Dodge says the car has an eight-speed automatic, so it sounds like the Charger won't get a manual gearbox like the Challenger does. A bummer, but not surprising. No all-wheel drive, either, but we can live with that. Update 2: Zero to 60 mph in 3.7 seconds, apparently. Update 3: The Hellcat engine is not going into the Dart. I'm still holding out for the Fiat 500 myself. Update 4: No fuel economy ratings yet. I'm gonna go ahead and assume "not great." At 4,560 pounds, it's about 100 pounds heavier than the Challenger Hellcat. Also, pricing will be announced later. Update 5: And here are those better photos I promised you! We love you the most, baby. We love you the most. "

8/13/2014 12:24:38 PM

i like that better than the challenger

the internet is rumbling for that engine to be in the next viper rather than the v10

8/13/2014 12:45:28 PM

internet = dumb

8/13/2014 1:16:38 PM

Not really viper v10 is an old wedge head 360 v8 + 2 cylinders iirc.

Now a hemi-v10 would be epic.

If they made this car in a 6 speed it would not be my next car but the following one.
My next car is probably going to be an ev commuter.

8/13/2014 3:31:48 PM

if they made a hemi v10 i would ask they they fix the firing order / use an offset crank / make the V 72 degrees instead of 90.

8/13/2014 4:18:31 PM