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 Message Boards » » Are nitrates/processed meats completely safe? Page [1]  
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I thought not, but this guy seems to think otherwise - http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and-nitrite-myth-another-reason-not-to-fear-bacon

For the purposes of this thread, safe means "no reason not to have a serving or two daily"

8/1/2014 8:56:52 PM

0EPII1
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Cured meats have been shown to raise the chances of stomach and bowel cancer in a few studies.

8/1/2014 9:07:31 PM

Smath74
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no reason not to have a serving or two daily

8/1/2014 10:19:41 PM

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^^ yeah I though there was a pretty strong link to colon cancer...stronger than red meat. and I thought it was more than just a few studies.

someone educate me.

8/1/2014 10:57:26 PM

eleusis
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sodium nitrate is a hell of a lot safer than botulism. if you're worried about getting stomach cancer from nitrates, then you need to cut out a lot of vegetables as well since they naturally contain nitrates.

8/1/2014 11:44:31 PM

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Quote :
". However, vitamin C naturally inhibits the conversion to nitrosamines, which is why fresh fruits and vegetables high in nitrates cause far fewer problems than meats artificially high in nitrates."

8/2/2014 3:04:12 PM

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Seems like the answer to this is the same with most other questions like it..."who the fuck knows"

Quote :
"High intake of nitrates and nitrites is carcinogenic in animal models. In humans, the association between cancer and nitrites is uncertain. Some studies have observed a link, especially with animal-based nitrates, whereas others have not.
Nitrates and nitrites themselves are not carcinogenic, but nitrites formed from dietary nitrates might react with dietary amines to form carcinogenic nitrosamines (like N-nitrosodmethylamine, NDMA), especially when meat-containing nitrites or nitrates are cooked or grilled. Martin Katan stated in his editorial in AJCN (2009), “Thus, evidence for adverse effects of dietary nitrate and nitrite is weak, and intakes above the legal limit might well be harmless.”"


http://www.pronutritionist.net/nitrates-are-beneficial-where-did-i-get-it-wrong/

8/2/2014 3:07:22 PM

Byrn Stuff
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This thread is relevant to my interests: I love bacon and barbecue, and my Dad had colon cancer.

[/TWW is not a blog]

8/2/2014 3:48:56 PM

eleusis
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^^^so the vegetables that have almost no vitamin C content protect you from the dangers of nitrates through their vitamin C content?

8/2/2014 5:20:49 PM

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444144
http://preventcancer.aicr.org/site/PageServer?pagename=recommendations_05_red_meat

8/3/2014 12:09:39 AM

eleusis
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Quote :
"Preserved vegetables was more strongly associated with cancer risk than preserved animal foods "


Quote :
"Epidemiologic studies and laboratory animal models suggest that a high intake of dietary fat promotes CRC. High fat intake favors the secretion of bile acids (BA) into the duodenum, and activates bacterial 7-alpha-dehydroxylase that makes secondary BA. These BA, deoxycholic and lithocholic acids, promote colon carcinogenesis in several animal models, and are elevated in stools from populations at risk for cancer (30). A high fat diet also leads to free fatty acids in the colonic lumen. They may damage the colonic epithelium and increase proliferation, an effect blocked by dietary calcium (31). The hypothesis that fat or BA promotes colorectal carcinogenesis have been tested in several studies briefly reported below."


I'm sure the people eating high amounts of processed meats also have high fat diets full of canned vegetables and short on fresh fruits and vegetables. There's a lot of socioeconomic factors that make this issue not as simple as some studies would like to portray it as.

8/3/2014 11:20:31 AM

RattlerRyan
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Correlation =/= causation

8/4/2014 2:00:37 PM

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Bttt

5/3/2017 11:54:59 PM

rwoody
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"Vit c cancels out nitrates" is great news for me. I always eat big handfuls of spinach, kale, or broccoli with my bacon and joke that they cancel each other out, I guess I was right!

I also eat the "natural, low nitrate" bacon, not sure how much diff that makes, if any

5/4/2017 12:03:30 AM

smoothcrim
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Ive been reading that "uncured" cured meats use a bacterial process that uses celery juice as the catalyst that generates more nitrates and nitrites than if direct nitrates and nitrites were used. So the "uncured" stuff may actually be worse.

5/4/2017 8:36:06 AM

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Quote :
"Curiously, regulations stipulate that the traditional curing process requires the addition of nitrite and thus “organic” processed meats that are treated with celery juice have to be labeled as “uncured.”
Such terminology is confusing because most consumers look to “organic” processed meats in order to avoid nitrites, but the fact is that these do contain nitrites, sometimes in lesser, sometimes in greater amounts than found in conventional products. That’s because the amount of nitrite that forms from nitrate in celery juice is hard to monitor, while in conventionally cured processed meats, the addition of nitrite is strictly controlled by regulations designed to minimize nitrosamine formation and maximize protection against botulism. This means any risk due to nitrosamine formation or bacterial contamination in the “organic” version is more challenging to evaluate."


Quote :
"According to the New York Times, the naturally-derived nitrites "are virtually identical to their synthetic cousins" and pose a similar cancer risk. Yet current USDA rules require products with naturally-derived preservatives to prominently feature “Uncured” and “No nitrates or nitrites added” on the label, despite the fact that these products can contain as much or more of the potentially harmful nitrite chemicals.
"


[Edited on May 4, 2017 at 10:57 AM. Reason : http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/business/02hotdog.html?_r=0]

5/4/2017 10:55:57 AM

neodata686
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Although I've mostly eliminated beef and pork from my diet (with rare exception) to clarify it's when these items are cooked or grilled? I'm good eating my soppressata cold.

5/6/2017 11:26:46 AM

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I don't follow

5/6/2017 11:45:12 PM

tulsigabbard
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5/9/2017 7:26:17 PM

begonias
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https://examine.com/nutrition/does-red-meat-cause-cancer

Quote :
"Summary: On a population wide basis, red meat is definitely associated with cancer. The association has been shown numerous times, but is fairly weak in relevance. The most well-controlled study noted an 0.2-fold increase. Please note association; this has not yet been shown through interventions nor is the cause known. If we are to answer 'does red meat cause cancer', the answer is 'we do not know'"

5/10/2017 12:11:19 PM

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Yeah it seems the data is a little more worrying on processed meat than it is for red meat.

Quote :
"The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified processed meat as a carcinogen, something that causes cancer. And it has classified red meat as a probable carcinogen, something that probably causes cancer. IARC is the cancer agency of the World Health Organization."


https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer.html
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/11/03/report-says-eating-processed-meat-is-carcinogenic-understanding-the-findings/

Quote :
"Processed meat intake may be involved in the etiology of colorectal cancer, a major cause of death in affluent countries. The epidemiologic studies published to date conclude that the excess risk in the highest category of processed meat-eaters is comprised between 20% and 50% compared with non-eaters. In addition, the excess risk per gram of intake is clearly higher than that of fresh red meat."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444144

5/10/2017 1:48:07 PM

neodata686
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Quote :
"I don't follow"


My point was I typically only eat non-cooked processed meats. From what I'm reading the carcinogens are formed from various manners of cooking (grilling, frying, baking, etc). If you just eat it without cooking it it's safer.

5/12/2017 2:19:49 PM

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Quote :
"From what I'm reading the carcinogens are formed from various manners of cooking (grilling, frying, baking, etc)"


That's a concern, but that's a separate issue than nitrates.

5/12/2017 2:24:20 PM

neodata686
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Gotcha. I think I'm going to go pescatarian.

5/12/2017 2:27:11 PM

GREEN JAY
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ya'lls colons are gonna be checked out better than anyone in human history. get your butt scans.

5/17/2017 3:03:22 PM

rjrumfel
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So the tl;dr version of this thread is to always take one of those vitamin c alka seltzer type tabs with every serving of processed meats.

So I guess eating stuff like Boar's Head deli meat carries less of a chance of causing cancer than bacon because I'm not exposing that stuff to high temps? Because I eat a lot of sandwich mean for lunches.

5/19/2017 7:39:22 AM

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Quote :
"So I guess eating stuff like Boar's Head deli meat carries less of a chance of causing cancer than bacon because I'm not exposing that stuff to high temps?"


I don't think so. That was just a theory presented above, right? Nitrates are still there in the deli meat. I'd eat more of the same but I try to limit my exposure to nitrates.

5/19/2017 8:28:23 AM

rjrumfel
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Don't take this animosity towards you, it's just a general statement, but wtf are we supposed to be eating.

Can't eat red meat - colon cancer
Can't eat deli meat - colon cancer
Can't eat grilled meat - temp is too high

Am I just supposed to eat sushi for meat? Oh wait, that probably has too much mercury in it.

5/19/2017 11:55:42 AM

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Quote :
"Am I just supposed to eat sushi for meat?"


Forgot about poultry? And mercury in general is not a concern for seafood...nothing on the scale of processed meat. And nobody is telling you what to do man. Live your life. I think the idea is that you can choose to limit your exposure to things that might be troublesome. You don't have to eliminate them from your diet

Quote :
"it seems the data is a little more worrying on processed meat than it is for red meat. "


Quote :
"The consumption of processed meat was associated with small increases in the risk of cancer in the studies reviewed. In those studies, the risk generally increased with the amount of meat consumed. An analysis of data from 10 studies estimated that every 50 gram portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by about 18%.

The cancer risk related to the consumption of red meat is more difficult to estimate because the evidence that red meat causes cancer is not as strong..."


Here's actual guidance, to correct your strawman above

Quote :
"16. Should I stop eating meat?

Eating meat has known health benefits. Many national health recommendations advise people to limit intake of processed meat and red meat, which are linked to increased risks of death from heart disease, diabetes, and other illnesses.

17. How much meat is it safe to eat?

The risk increases with the amount of meat consumed, but the data available for evaluation did not permit a conclusion about whether a safe level exists."


More here if you're actually interested: http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

5/19/2017 12:30:49 PM

rjrumfel
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Well, I'm stressing out over my diet anyway. Why not add a little more stress

5/19/2017 1:36:45 PM

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