Quote :

"MSNBC Analyst Says Cooper Documents Reveal Karl Rove as Source in Plame Case By E&P Staff Published: July 01, 2005 11:30 PM ET NEW YORK Now that Time Inc. has turned over documents to federal court, presumably revealing who its reporter, Matt Cooper, identified as his source in the Valerie Plame/CIA case, speculation runs rampant on the name of that source, and what might happen to him or her. Tonight, on the syndicated McLaughlin Group political talk show, Lawrence O'Donnell, senior MSNBC political analyst, claimed to know that name--and it is, according to him, top White House mastermind Karl Rove. Here is the transcript of O'Donnell's remarks: "What we're going to go to now in the next stage, when Matt Cooper's e-mails, within Time Magazine, are handed over to the grand jury, the ultimate revelation, probably within the week of who his source is. "And I know I'm going to get pulled into the grand jury for saying this but the source of...for Matt Cooper was Karl Rove, and that will be revealed in this document dump that Time magazine's going to do with the grand jury." Other panelists then joined in discussing whether, if true, this would suggest a perjury rap for Rove, if he told the grand jury he did not leak to Cooper. "

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000972839

[Edited on July 2, 2005 at 12:48 AM. Reason : I hope this is true.]

7/2/2005 12:47:04 AM

Much like the last person in the White House that committed perjury, I'm sure nothing is going to happen.

7/2/2005 12:50:44 AM

depends on if it was about a blow job or not

7/2/2005 12:59:26 AM

Exposing a CIA operative's identity is a treasonous act.

7/2/2005 1:02:51 AM

Quote :

"Exposing a CIA operative's identity is a treasonous act."

A guess you can back this statement up?

7/2/2005 1:08:13 AM

Quote :

" TITLE 50--WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE CHAPTER 15--NATIONAL SECURITY SUBCHAPTER IV--PROTECTION OF CERTAIN NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION Sec. 421. Protection of identities of certain United States undercover intelligence officers, agents, informants, and sources (a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had access to classified information that identifies covert agent Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined not more than $50,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

http://foi.missouri.edu/bushinfopolicies/protection.html

Quote :

"Daschle said he finds it "ironic" that the administration has rejected his request for the appointment of an independent counsel given the comments of Bush's father, who in 1999 said: "I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors.""

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98673,00.html

[Edited on July 2, 2005 at 1:22 AM. Reason : I love citing foxnews.]

7/2/2005 1:21:08 AM

Intelligence Identities Protection Act does not equal a treasonous act.

The second quote is just one mans opinion and means nothing.

7/2/2005 2:17:43 AM

karl rove will never go to jail. hes the puppet master.

7/2/2005 2:31:51 AM

^^If a democrat revealed a CIA operative, there would be a fucking riot of republican hypocrites.

[Edited on July 2, 2005 at 2:33 AM. Reason : ^^]

7/2/2005 2:32:51 AM

Quote :

"If a democrat revealed a CIA operative, there would be a fucking riot of republican hypocrites."

Thanks for sharing

7/2/2005 2:43:57 AM

Exposing a CIA operative's identity IS a criminal act

you can sidestep the issue and try to do political squirming

but this man was doing his duty for his country

and this asshole rove outed him

HE WAS FUCKING UNDERCOVER DOING WORK FOR OUR COUNTRY

god damn't, it really seems fucking black and white here

[Edited on July 2, 2005 at 3:14 AM. Reason : criminal through definition]

7/2/2005 3:11:00 AM

^ I'm glad to see you know what we are talkng about, except for the fact the person that was outed wasn't a man.

7/2/2005 4:06:27 AM

I need a little more than that article to convince me at this point...

7/2/2005 4:36:57 AM

yeah... i'm having a little difficulty believing that Karl Rove would be that damned stupid...

hat just doesn't make sense...

7/2/2005 8:31:56 AM

i am a republican, no politics with this issue.

if karl rove is found guilty to have exposed a CIA operative's identity then he has committed treason and should be hung from a tree on the white house lawn.

7/2/2005 10:17:05 AM

As much as I want to beleive this, we all know Rove is too smart for that. This is part of some scheme, just like when he released fake memos reporting the truth. When they were outed as fakes, the public then took the info in them to be fake too.

7/2/2005 11:06:57 AM

Oh, I didn't mean to say that I didn't think Rove did it. He's one of the two people I suspect of the leak. The other is "Scooter" Libby.

What I'm saying is that I have a hard time believing Karl Rove is going to jail for anything while Bush is in office...

7/2/2005 1:04:09 PM

Well I don't know.

Here's the interesting thing.

If Karl Rove did in fact reveal the identity of a under cover agent (which is treason but hard to pin on Rove) and then lied about it (purgery), then giventhe nation's seriously souring mood he would go to jail.

Along with a fuckton of other people in what would amount to a "purge" so to speak.

Off course thats assuming the administration doesn't pull a rabbit out of its hat and diverts attention away from this.


Seriously, shit is about to hit the fan in washington.

7/2/2005 2:10:44 PM

Karl Rove has already had every poster in this thread killed in his/her sleep

7/2/2005 2:11:49 PM

^^ I understand that's how it looks. But after closely watching 5 years of this administration operate and how disgustingly good they are at manipulating the public discourse on other serious matters, I've still got my doubts.

7/2/2005 2:46:24 PM

I'm still mystified at the outrage of Valerie Plame being "outed"...when the fact she worked for the CIA was public knowledge when it happened.

We're not talking super-duper-ultra-secret-uber-classified-OMF-UNDERCOVER-AGENT!!1 stuff here. She was a fucking analyst in Langley when she was "outed." She was schmoozing at DC dinner parties with her embarassment of a husband Joe Wilson when she was "outed." She was raising two 3-year-old twins when she was "outed."

The only thing that was "outed" was that Plame orchestrated sending Wilson to Niger to investigate Iraqi interest in purchasing Uranium...where Wilson then lied about repeatedly -- despite his own report to the CIA -- when it was politically expedient for him to do so and would help his book sales (surely you all remember the over-hyped "16-words-in-the-SOTU" controversy and Wilson's The Politics of Truth?).

I'm always amazed at the ability of hacks on both sides to manufacture outrage over the dumbest shit...


[Edited on July 2, 2005 at 3:34 PM. Reason : ---]

7/2/2005 3:14:44 PM

pryderi: for your reading pleasure, at your leisure...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089249/

Quote :

"Stop the Investigation! Exactly what law did Robert Novak's leakers break? By Jack Shafer Posted Friday, Oct. 3, 2003, at 2:49 PM PT Democrats in Congress want a special counsel appointed to investigate and prosecute the administration officials who reportedly blew the identity of covert CIA officer Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak, who published it, and to at least six other journalists, who did not. To them I say, good luck! No matter who ends up with the case—a special counsel, the Ashcroft Justice Department, or a resurrected Eliot Ness—the biggest problem will be proving leakers broke the law. The statute most frequently cited by folks who think the leakers deserve time in jail is the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, which was passed to specifically prevent CIA turncoat Philip Agee and his comrades at Covert Action Information Bulletin from publishing the names of U.S. undercover intelligence officers. The language of the law is so specific it should have been called the Stop Philip Agee Forever Act—it wasn't like the Washington Post, the New York Times, or anybody else in the U.S. press was running the names of secret agents on Page One. The problem with the Intelligence Identities Protection Act is that it doesn't appear to apply to the Novak case. To win a conviction, the law requires, among other things: 1) That the individual has or had "authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent." If Novak's administration sources had only unauthorized access to the information about covert officer Plame, learning about her identity and her mission, say, in a hallway conversation from a visiting CIA officer, the law wouldn't apply here. Perhaps they might go after the hypothetical CIA officer, but they'd run in to a slew of other legal problems sketched out below. 2) That in addition to having had authorized access to the information about the covert agent, the individual must have "intentionally" disclosed it to an individual not authorized to receive classified information. This clause protects the government employee or member of Congress who might accidentally blurt out the name and identity of a covert agent. (In 1991, Sen. David Boren, D-Okla., mentioned the name of a CIA station chief as he emerged from a closed-door session.) So, in addition to the other tests, a prosecutor would also have to prove the leaker's intent to blow the agent's cover. This poses a huge problem in the Novak case because the vague language of his column doesn't identify Plame as covert, but as a "CIA operative on weapons of mass destruction." It's plausible that Novak's source didn't know—as we now know—that Plame was "undercover." 3) That the individual knew he was disclosing information that identifies a "covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States." [Emphasis added.] So far, we have no evidence that the United States is taking "affirmative measures" to protect Plame's identity. Anecdotal stories in the press indicate that she's raising 3-year-old twins. The government would have to prove it was actively protecting her identity for a future assignment. This could mean keeping her name out of CIA phone directories; giving her an office off the Langley, Va., campus of the CIA; etc. But Clifford May and others say Plame's identity was well known in some Washington circles. That could argue that the agency wasn't taking affirmative measures to conceal her identity. Plame's husband, Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, told New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd this week that she surrendered her secret identity to him somewhere around the time of their first kiss! If Plame's been sloppy with her identity, should somebody go to jail for leaking it? Last, the individual would have to know the government was taking affirmative measures to protect her identity. If he didn't know that, he'd be free from prosecution. But what about Robert Novak? The law leaves him in the clear, too, unless he starts routinely disclosing covert agents' identities with the intent to harm U.S. intelligence-gathering capabilities, as the Agee crowd did. ===== Addendum, Oct. 3, 8:16 p.m. ET: An alert reader e-mailed me a note suggesting that Valerie Plame might not qualify as a "covert agent" under the U.S. Code. The definition Plame would probably fall under is someone "who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States. ..." As blogger Mark A.R. Kleiman has pointed out, "Whether someone whose duty station was in the U.S. but traveled abroad on intelligence business counts as 'serving abroad' isn't obvious from the text. No one has yet published any information about Valerie Plame Wilson's postings or travels." ****** Covert agents, drop me a line at pressbox@hotmail.com."

7/2/2005 3:37:29 PM

Quote :

"If Karl Rove did in fact reveal the identity of a under cover agent (which is treason"

You boys are as bad as Ann Coulter. If one thing is for certain in this country it is that Karl Rove did not commit treason and as much as I hate the slimmy bastard I would fight to the death to defend that.

Quote :

"U.S. Constitution - Article 3 Section 3 Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Everyone needs to watch throwing around the word treason. Abuse of that term is how we got this country in the first place.

7/2/2005 3:42:10 PM

o yea becuause the right is so outraged at coulter

[Edited on July 2, 2005 at 3:54 PM. Reason : 2]

7/2/2005 3:54:42 PM

Valerie Plame was working to uncover the proliferation of nuclear materials. Terrorists have attempted to get nuclear materials in order to build a weapon. There is a "War on Terror".

Quote :

"trea·son Audio pronunciation of "treason" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trzn) n. 1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies. 2. A betrayal of trust or confidence. "

Not only did Rove endanger the life of Valerie Plame, but also endangered people she relied on in order to gather information.

7/2/2005 4:44:39 PM

only one problem with your definition, pryderi. You are convicted of treason based on kwsmith2's definition, not the dictionary definition. dumbass

7/2/2005 4:50:57 PM

wow

when politics can enter into something like this, I guess we can know that our country will soon crumble.

And yes, if we found out that clinton's advisors had outed a cia operative, I would say the same thing

you know, since someone's bound to bring up clinton

7/2/2005 5:33:41 PM

It's all a left wing conspiracy!!! They're sacrificing one of their own to plant evidence that will bring down the Bush administration's key players.

7/2/2005 5:33:53 PM

by the way

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031006-4.html

Quote :

"Q Mr. President, on another issue, the CIA leak-gate. What is your confidence level in the results of the DOJ investigation about any of your staffers not being found guilty or being found guilty? And what do you say to critics of the administration who say that this administration retaliates against naysayers? PRESIDENT BUSH: First of all, I'm glad you brought that question up. This is a very serious matter, and our administration takes it seriously. As members of the press corps here know, I have, at times, complained about leaks of security information, whether the leaks be in the legislative branch or in the executive branch. And I take those leaks very seriously. And, therefore, we will cooperate fully with the Justice Department. I've got all the confidence in the world the Justice Department will do a good, thorough job. And that's exactly what I want them to do, is a good, thorough job. I'd like to know who leaked, and if anybody has got any information inside our government or outside our government who leaked, you ought to take it to the Justice Department so we can find out the leaker. I have told my staff, I want full cooperation with the Justice Department. And when they ask for information, we expect the information to be delivered on a timely basis. I expect it to be delivered on a timely basis. I want there to be full participation, because, April, I am most interested in finding out the truth. And, you know, there's a lot of leaking in Washington, D.C. It's a town famous for it. And if this helps stop leaks of -- this investigation in finding the truth, it will not only hold someone to account who should not have leaked -- and this is a serious charge, by the way. We're talking about a criminal action, but also hopefully will help set a clear signal we expect other leaks to stop, as well. And so I look forward to finding the truth."

7/2/2005 5:38:58 PM

could he have said "leak" any more in that response? I thought he was talking about people pissing for a while...

7/2/2005 5:41:22 PM

Maybe you missed this , Aaron:

Quote :

"or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

.

Releasing the name of a US agent can be argued to fall under this.

7/2/2005 5:42:14 PM

hey, not arguing against that. rather, i'm attacking pryderi trying to support his assertion that the leaker was guilty of treason based on the dictionary definition.

7/2/2005 5:43:41 PM

so in other words, you're ignoring the actual discussion here, which is MUCH more important than your semantic distraction.

7/2/2005 5:47:12 PM

no, not really. if pryderi is trying to argue that the leaker is guilty of treason and should go to jail via the dictionary definition, then he is a fucktard. We have legal definitions of things for a reason

7/2/2005 5:52:20 PM

how about this question: do you think that, if karl rove did this (which has been pretty well confirmed), that he should be punished? Not asking if you think there is a specific law, but hypothetically, do you think what he did should be illegal and punished with jail time?

7/2/2005 5:54:51 PM

No it shouldnt be illegal to out an analyst at Langley who was abusing her position.

7/2/2005 6:28:29 PM

^
Exactly.

---

Quote :

"pryderi: Not only did Rove endanger the life of Valerie Plame, but also endangered people she relied on in order to gather information."

So I'm guessing you were also against the 2-page Vanity Fair photo spread of her and good 'ole Joe Wilson in their Jag? Since her identity was so super-duper-ultra-secret-uber-classified-OMF-UNDERCOVER-AGENT!!1-ish and all?

7/2/2005 10:58:08 PM

i think we should put him on double secret probation, but that's about it

7/2/2005 11:04:04 PM

but he lied under oath, right? about something far more important than a blowjob, right?. . . just checking

[Edited on July 3, 2005 at 6:04 AM. Reason : alledgedly of course]

7/3/2005 6:03:31 AM

I would like nothing more than to see Karl Rove go to prison ... and drop the soap ...

7/3/2005 8:26:15 AM

Quote :

"Rove had been assured by prosecutors that he was not a target of the investigation. "We were advised recently that his status has not changed," he added."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rove3jul03,1,2388418.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

The Rove machine is working

7/3/2005 8:46:28 AM

This is some major shit right here.

bump.


So it looks like the line being given to the press is that Rove didn't "knowingly" give out such information. Knowingly is the key, because he can argue that he thought the fact that Plame was a CIA agent was open knowledge.

[Edited on July 5, 2005 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

7/5/2005 5:36:05 PM

i just dont want to see the poor guy that didnt shit go to jail

i say a rogue military element should "capture" novak and interrogate him till he breaks

that would be fun.

very fun.

7/6/2005 1:06:54 AM

He already broke, why do you think the prosecutors didnt go after him like they did the Time and NYT people.

7/6/2005 2:17:40 AM

yes but he knows the source im betting

7/6/2005 2:21:42 AM

Clinton didn't commit perjury.

7/6/2005 2:59:35 AM

lies about sex are worse then lies about war

its just common sense

7/6/2005 3:50:06 AM

It should be illegal to try and extract revenge on any federal employee for purely political or personal reasons.

7/6/2005 9:02:30 AM

the republicans have teh power. and if a few good cia agents have to get killed to keep the power, then o well

7/7/2005 12:12:50 AM

you guys are worse than congress...seriously.

nothings going to come of this. some political intern will take the fall, no one of high esteem will be held accountable...and the issue that matters..the fact Bush used faulty intel the Brits let him docter to use for war in Iraq will all be conquincidently missed...


all for pleasure of the 24 hour cable news networks and politcal daytime hacks.

7/7/2005 1:19:22 AM