It is never permissible to kill an innocent human life -- even if this is done for the very noble cause of trying to cure an illness!

Except when someone accidently gets bombed. Then killing to save lives is ok, because it was an accident. If you dont intend to kill, it is alright. After all, stem-cell researchers wake-up every believing they are murdering many many people.

That is how you join two seperate topics, and prove once and for all that those against stem-cell research that support war are hypocrits.

[/done]

8/10/2005 3:23:46 PM

you make me want abortion to be retroactive to about 20-25 years.

8/10/2005 3:33:44 PM

8/10/2005 3:34:59 PM

^^ you can abort yourself right now.

8/10/2005 3:43:09 PM

OOH GOOD COMEBACK

WHY DON'T YOU JUST QUOTE ME NEXT TIME

8/10/2005 3:47:47 PM

this thread is the shit I'm talking about.

8/10/2005 3:49:39 PM

^^... you like totally dissed my comeback like

8/10/2005 3:50:38 PM

It is ok to kill an innocent human life -- even if its just because the mother is a lazy whore.

Except when someone is found guilty of murdering other people and the law sentences them to death. Then killing to resolve a situation is not ok, because it could have been an accident. If you intend to kill a truely innocent life, it is alright. After all, serial killers wake-up every day believing they are truely reformed and everyone deserves a second chance... except babies, they don't even deserve a first chance because they could grow up to be a Republican reduce welfare benefits,.

That is how you join two seperate topics, and prove once and for all that those against capital punishment that support abortion are hypocrits.

[/done]

8/10/2005 5:02:15 PM

I'm pro-death, myself.

8/10/2005 5:06:03 PM

and your side always wins in the end

8/10/2005 5:10:21 PM

taste like chicken

8/10/2005 5:21:17 PM

You know where this argument will go. "Well how many innocent lives is it permissible to end 'for the very noble cause of trying to cure an illness?'"

The accidental nature of a killing does come into play. Do you consider someone who kills someone in an automobile accident to be on the same moral tier as one who kills someone maliciously with an axe?

In general, disregarding a few on the fringe, people have always considered systematic slaughters to be far less acceptable than casualties induced by combat. This must make virtually everybody a hypocrite.

Were medical experiments conducted by Nazi scientists on Jewish prisoners acceptable when they advanced knowledge of medicine?

8/10/2005 8:45:06 PM

Quote :

"It is never permissible to kill an innocent human life"

Quote :

"Except when someone accidently gets bombed. Then killing to save lives is ok, because it was an accident. If you dont intend to kill, it is alright."

OMF FLIP FLOP!

8/10/2005 9:39:04 PM

Is it OK to kill someone who's going to die anyway because of their as yet incurable disease?

8/11/2005 9:44:00 AM

^ Such as the incurable disease of "life" guaranteed to kill them within 100 years.

8/11/2005 9:47:09 AM

Quote :

"In general, disregarding a few on the fringe, people have always considered systematic slaughters to be far less acceptable than casualties induced by combat. This must make virtually everybody a hypocrite."

Yes, because they are condoning one and condemning the other, when ultimately, people are still being killed by their actions.

an example would be:

"it's bad that saddam bombed his own people."
and
"it's okay that we bomb cities and civilian infrastructure to help those people out in Baghdad (even though targetting civilians and their infrastructure is against international law)."

8/11/2005 10:32:46 AM

Targetting infrastructure is not against interntaional law, and we have not targetted civilians.

8/11/2005 1:47:35 PM

what about bombing two arab media outlets simultaneously during the seige of baghdad (al jazeera and someone else)? the fact that these bombings were just after they started filming "un-approved" footage of the actual destruction of buildings in the city while it was happening is a bit suspicious.

[Edited on August 11, 2005 at 2:05 PM. Reason : and i know at least one al-jazeera cameraman was killed in this attack.]

8/11/2005 2:04:28 PM

Quote :

"Such as the incurable disease of "life" guaranteed to kill them within 100 years."

Life can be cured. In fact I've got a prescription for you right now. Put on dark clothes and lay down in the middle of the street late at night.

8/11/2005 2:05:14 PM

Quote :

""Well how many innocent lives is it permissible to end 'for the very noble cause of trying to cure an illness?'" "

sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make an omlet.

as long as you dont intentionaly kill innocent people, i dont think the scientists can be help acountable or liable going by the same ethical rules put forth by president bush and our military.

we're not intentionaly killing people like the nazi's, we're MAYBE and ACCIDENTLY killing people if stem cells decide they have a right to live one day.

8/11/2005 2:28:55 PM

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and Relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts (Protocol II)

Quote :

"Article 14.-Protection of objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population Starvation of civilians as a method of combat is prohibited. It is therefore prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless, for that purpose, objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works."

i got more stuff, but i need to catch a bus right now.

8/11/2005 2:35:37 PM

^we bomb the enemy no matter where they are, no matter if they are dug in with civilians or not

8/11/2005 2:46:19 PM

it all boils down to wrong place/ wrong time (getting bombed)

8/11/2005 4:08:47 PM

Getting shot boils down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time

8/11/2005 4:24:10 PM

personally, it's more fun being at the wrong place at the right time.

not too much fun being in the right place at the wrong time though.

8/11/2005 4:29:23 PM

What is innocent human life?

Just curious...

8/11/2005 7:30:30 PM

Quote :

"Article 14.-Protection of objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population Starvation of civilians as a method of combat is prohibited. It is therefore prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless, for that purpose, objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works.""

I don't recall the Coalition doing anything to Iraqi foodstuffs.

8/11/2005 7:40:39 PM

Quote :

"I don't recall the Coalition doing anything to Iraqi foodstuffs."

what are you, a 2 year-old? "Such as" = "An example would be"

effects of Coalition bombing in the Gulf War from declassified documents
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19961031/961031_950825_0116pgv_00p.html
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_0504rept_91.html
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950825/950825_0131pgv_91d.html

and this one really takes the cake.
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_511rept_91.html

and for a summary
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0808-07.htm

8/11/2005 8:39:58 PM

Quote :

"It is never permissible to kill an innocent human life"

then you must be estatic that Sadam is no longer in power because he killed more people then we will probably ever know!

Quote :

"even if this is done for the very noble cause of trying to cure an illness!"

So you are against embryonic stem cell research, because in order to start the cell line
(remember this is why Bush limited federal funding in 2001 to only existing lines because it would be like the government funding abortions), a human embryo must be terminated.

Quote :

"those against stem-cell research that support war are hypocrits."

In the long run, lives have actually been saved. Remember Sadam mass murdered an unknown number of people for many many years, and would have continued to do so if we didnt step in, and his sons would have followed suit for many many years to come. Your arguement should talk more about American's being killed, not "people" in general.

Your situation could be reversed however, those for stem-cell research that do not support the war are hypocrits.

8/11/2005 8:59:17 PM

Quote :

"Your situation could be reversed however, those for stem-cell research that do not support the war are hypocrits."

no, not really. there are many more reasons to not want to go to war in iraq than not wanting to kill innocents. also, not everyone thinks that stem cell research is in any way. the original logic assumed that those against stem cell research saw it as killing innocent lives, therefore they should be against war by the same logic. it doesn't work the other way around.

8/11/2005 9:55:14 PM

1. when the terrorist intentionaly kill civillians -- ITS COMPLETELY WRONG

2. when we drop nuclear bombs on civilians in japan -- thats ok.

8/13/2005 9:26:00 AM

Re a reported exchange “many years ago between the Chief Justice of Texas and an Illinois lawyer visiting that state. 'Why is it,' the visiting lawyer asked, 'that you routinely hang horse thieves in Texas but oftentimes let murderers go free?' 'Because,' replied the Chief Justice, 'there never was a horse that needed stealing!'”
—People v. Skiles, 115 Ill.App. 816, 827, 450 N.E.2d 1212, 1220 (1983).

8/17/2005 6:15:43 PM

so, by quoting that, are you agreeing that it's okay to kill people in general because some people can be bad?

8/17/2005 6:20:22 PM

I just thought the quote was hallarious
The funniest thing I've read all day!

Anyway, yes, people should be killed for horse theivery.

8/17/2005 6:24:28 PM

cool, cause i had no idea what that had to do with anything.

8/17/2005 6:27:30 PM

1. when the terrorist intentionaly kill civillians -- ITS COMPLETELY WRONG

2. when we drop nuclear bombs on civilians in japan -- thats ok.

8/17/2005 6:33:58 PM

Remember kids, historys retold by the good guys.

8/17/2005 7:03:49 PM

Quote :

"what are you, a 2 year-old? "Such as" = "An example would be""

Yes, and nothing else listed in that particular part of the conventions was targetted by the Coalition, either, dipshit.

Your summary is, among other things, generally biased beyond hope and (my personal favorite) largely irrelevant to the discussion. As best I can ascertain they pertain to sanctions against Iraq, diplomatic measures which have next to nothing to do with the Geneva Conventions on War. At no point that I saw did they do anything other than describe the possible ramifications of actions -- that is, further sanctions on water treatment equipment were not encouraged or suggested.

Nice try, though.

Quote :

"1. when the terrorist intentionaly kill civillians -- ITS COMPLETELY WRONG 2. when we drop nuclear bombs on civilians in japan -- thats ok"

This is a toughie, but basically the difference is that the atomic bomb had a clearly legitimate chance at ending the war in question, whereas terrorist actions have generally had the exact opposite effect in history and in the current conflicts.

8/17/2005 8:28:23 PM

Didn't we kill way more people with the firebombing of Tokyo than the atomic bomb? I know it was 100k or more.

8/17/2005 8:36:03 PM

Yes, we killed over a million Japanese firebombing the various urban centers.

Both nuclear bombs barely made 1/10th that many.

8/17/2005 8:48:28 PM

SHUT UP! I didnt even read this thread

8/17/2005 9:14:44 PM

we killed more in firebombing in one night than the two atomic bombs, if i remember right.

8/17/2005 9:16:19 PM

Quote :

"This is a toughie, but basically the difference is that the atomic bomb had a clearly legitimate chance at ending the war in question, whereas terrorist actions have generally had the exact opposite effect in history and in the current conflicts."

i believe thats a "good" justification

but lets face it, the terrorist believe their acts will cause shit loads of peace if they achieve their ends

8/17/2005 9:40:30 PM

here, i did a google search for you already, cupcake.
http://www.google.at/search?hl=de&q=Al+Amariyah+US+bombing+civilian+smart&meta=
or just search for Al Amariyah

Quote :

"US Corporate Press: 3/23/03: Fighting South of Baghdad as City Bombed Again -- Reuters Red Cross Sees 200 Baghdad 'War-Wounded' March 22, 2003 By Stephanie Nebehay WATER, POWER The six ICRC expatriate officials in Baghdad were also monitoring the city's water supply and power. Both systems appeared to function normally during most of the day, but fresh explosions rocked Baghdad shortly before midnight on Saturday and large parts of the capital were plunged into darkness, a Reuters witness said. The ICRC had prepared pumps, storage tanks and sites for emergency water distribution "if and when needed" in Baghdad, it said in an earlier statement. Water supplies for Iraq's second city Basra -- which has 1.8 million residents -- stopped late on Friday, but ICRC and Iraqi officials worked all Saturday and to restore some of the supply, Notari said. She did not know what had caused the damage which cut off water in the city, about 550 km (340 miles) southeast of Baghdad. U.S. Marines said on Saturday they had defeated Iraqi forces on the outskirts of the city after a day of fierce fighting. The ICRC's Notari said: "Our team in Basra together with the Iraqi Water Board managed to set up an alternative water supply line drawing water from the Shatt-Al-Arab waterway, where the Tigris and Euphrates flow together. They managed to reinstall water supplies for 40 percent of the city." "It was a real life-saving operation. In 122 Fahrenheit heat, if people don't have water over a few days, you can have serious problems." She added: "They will do their best to continue repairs on Sunday. I am so proud of them.""

quoted because the HTML is fukt and selecting and copying is impossible. i'm sure you don't mind.

http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Iraq/032302_iraqis_resist.htm
http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Iraq/032403_outrage_in_baghdad.htm: "Less than 100 meters from Alyermouk Hospital and a school, bombing crushed the foot of 28 year old man who was walking outside his home."
http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Iraq/032403_basra_facing_disaster_after_supp.htm: Basra Facing Disaster After Supplies Cut: "Electricity cables powering the major Wafa al-Quaid water station - which supplies two million people and is the biggest source in the region - have been destroyed."
http://electroniciraq.net/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/10/434: Iraqi Television bombed by coalition forces (arguably against the Geneva Conventions by being considered a civilian target)

all this by the 8th day of the "operation".

here is a collection of articles since the start.
http://www.ccmep.org/usbombingwatch/2003.htm

please read these and more.

If you still aren't satisfied, i'll just move on to Kosovo (plus you won't think i'm a clinton-lovin' democrat).

Don't forget Dresden's 140,000 when you talk about firebombing. Kurt Vonnegut wouldn't like that.

Quote :

"..legitimate chance at ending the war in question, whereas terrorist actions have generally had the exact opposite effect in history and in the current conflicts."

I would consider the VietCong a terrorist organization, and they killed civilians by terrorizing them to fight or at least no help the US. They won. I know you said generally, and also that they had the NVA, but don't you think that to the insurgents in Iraq the VC proves their method works? To them, just like we thought we could win with an atom bomb?

8/17/2005 11:21:43 PM

1) I may have missed it, but having just looked over the Geneva Convention article you quoted, I see no mention of power, which is not "indispensable" (or which is, at the least, no more than arguably so).
2) The article states:

Quote :

"It is therefore prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless, for that purpose"

I've seen no evidence that anything protected by the conventions was intentionally targetted. I'll grant that I haven't read through everything you put up, but at the moment I'm fairly confident you won't find anything contrary. If water installations were struck by errant bombs, that is not a violation of the Geneva convention. If water installations were rendered inoperable by attacks on legitimate targets (electricity or military installations), that is not a violation of the Geneva conventions. You have to be actively attempting to destroy utilities indispensable to civilian life in order to be violating.

Quote :

"I would consider the VietCong a terrorist organization, and they killed civilians by terrorizing them to fight or at least no help the US. They won."

I wouldn't consider their various attacks on military targets, no matter how unconventionally undertaken, to be "terrorist" in the sense of the word we're using here. As to their various attacks on Vietnamese civilians, I would not say that those contributed significantly to their victory.

Quote :

"Don't forget Dresden's 140,000 when you talk about firebombing."

This took place before the Geneva Conventions were written, but for the record I don't think the firebombing of Dresden was justifiable. Its effect on the war's outcome was negligible.

Quote :

"but lets face it, the terrorist believe their acts will cause shit loads of peace if they achieve their ends"

True, but there are some important factors at play here.

To at least some of the terrorists, "peace" equates directly to crimes against humanity -- they won't consider it to exist until a certain group (the Israelis) are all dead or forcibly moved out of their homes, regardless of whether the Israelis stop killing anybody. What this means for us is that they are striving to acheive something that is not peace, regardless of what they call it. Put succinctly: with some (if not most) of the terrorists, crimes against civilians aren't a means, they're an end unto themselves.

Secondly, your counter could perhaps excuse the bombers themselves, but it seems unbelievable that even at the highest levels of the terrorist organization there is nobody who realizes the futility of their efforts at "peace." If a peon is brainwashed into sincerely thinking he can bring about peace with his death, that's one thing, but someone directing or brainwashing that peon knows that such is not the case and still wants to send him onto a bus or train with a bomb. If Truman had thought, "There's no way dropping this bomb will hasten the end of the war, but it'll damn sure kill some nips," he'd have been wrong.

8/18/2005 1:30:51 AM

from http://www.serbia-info.com/news/1999-04/23/11210.html:

Quote :

" CIVILIAN VICTIMS AND DEVASTATION IN NATO AGGRESSION ON YUGOSLAVIA April 23, 1999 OVERVIEW OF DESTRUCTION OF CIVILIAN TARGETS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA AS A RESULT OF BARBARIC AND CRIMINAL AGGRESSION BY NATO, FROM 24 MARCH TO 19 APRIL 1999 CIVILIAN CASUALTIES From the onset of NATO aggression against our country up to 19 April 1999, the North Atlantic Alliance made over 7,000 criminal attacks against the territory of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. 700 warplanes, of which 530 combat planes, were used; more than 2000 cruise missiles were launched and over 6,000 tons of explosives were dropped. About 500 civilians were killed and more than 4,000 sustained serious injuries e.g.: in Kursumlija: 13 dead and 25 wounded; in Pancevo: 2 dead and 4 wounded; in Cacak: one dead and 7 wounded; in Kragujevac: over 120 workers were wounded during an attack on the car factory "Zastava"; in Vranje: two dead and 23 wounded; in Aleksinac: 12 dead and more than 40 wounded; in Nagavac village, Orahovac municipality: 11 dead and 5 wounded; in Pristina: 10 dead and 8 wounded; Grdelicka gorge: 55 killed and 16 wounded; attack on two refugee columns, with four cruise missiles, on the Djakovica-Prizren road: 75 killed and 100 wounded, of whom 26 critically; in the village of Srbica: 10 killed, among whom 7 children; Belgrade suburb of Batajnica: a three year old girl was killed, and five civilians wounded. Three million children are endangered in our country as a result of war and bombardment by NATO criminals. After these barbarian attacks hundreds of thousands citizens have been exposed to poisonous gasses which can have a lasting consequences on the health of the entire population and the environment. After the demolition of the Petrovaradin bridge, Novi Sad and Petrovaradin were cut of water supply (600 000 citizens) since the main and city pipeline was constructed into the bridge. About one million citizens in our country are short of water supply due to the bombardment of NATO aggressors. About 500 000 workers became jobless due to the total destruction of industrial facilities all around the country. Two million citizens have no means for living and cannot ensure the minimum for existence. [img]http://www.serbia-info.com/g3/images/zastava0904-6a.jpg[/img] 100 000 people without bread Overall material damage is enormous. Preliminary estimates indicate that barbaric air strikes of the neo-fashist NATO alliance, since the beginning of the unprovoked aggression on the SR of Yugoslavia, on industrial, commercial and civil facilities and structures throughout our peace-loving country, have incurred damages in excess of 10 billion dollars. In the territory of the northern province of Vojvodine alone, damages have been estimated in excess of 3,5 billion dollars. TRAFFIC The road and railway networks, especially road and rail bridges, most of which were destroyed or damaged beyond repair, suffered extensive destruction. The targets of attacks were such communications as: [img]http://www.serbia-info.com/g3/images/danube1m.jpg[/img] Novi Sad 1. BRIDGES (11 DESTROYED AND 13 DAMAGED): 1.The Varadin Bridge over the Danube was destroyed (on 1 April 1999); 2.The "Sloboda" (Freedom) Bridge over the Danube was destroyed (on 4 April 1999); 3.The "Mladosti" (Youth) Bridge over the Danube, connecting Backa Palanka with Ilok, was damaged (on 4 April 1999); 4.The new railway bridge over the Danube connecting Bogojevo and Erdut was damaged (on 5 April 1999); 5.The road bridge over the Danube, connecting Bogojevo with Erdut was damaged (on 5 April 1999); 6.The bridge over the Danube along the Beograd-Novi Sad road, near Beska, Indjija municipality, was damaged (on 1 April 1999); 7.The road bridge along the Magura Belacevac road, 15 kilometres from Pristina, suffered extensive damage; 8.The "Zezeljov" Bridge in Novi Sad was damaged (on 5 April 1999); 9.The bridge over the Ibar river, Biljanovac municipality, was damaged (on 5 - 13 April 1999); 10.The bridge over the Vrbacka river near Jezgrovic was destroyed (on 5 April 1999); 11.The "Lozno" railway bridge near Usce was destroyed (on 5 April 1999); 12.The road bridge on the road leading to Brvenik, near Usce, was destroyed (on 5 April 1999); 13.The bridge along the Nis-Pristina primary road, near Kursumlija, suffered extensive damage (on 5 April 1999); 14.The bridge near Zubin Potok was destroyed (on 5 April 1999); 15.The Grdelica gorge railway bridge was damaged (on 12 April 1999); 16.The road bridge over the Kosanica river near Kursumlija was damaged (on 13 April 1999); 17.The old bridge on the river Rasina in the town of Krusevac (12-13 April 1999); 18.The Krusevac-Pojate bridge on the river Zapadna Morava, at the village of Jasika, was destroyed (on 13 April 1999); 19.The railway bridge on the river Lim, between Priboj and Prijepolje, near hydroelectric power station Bistrica was destroyed (on 15 April 1999); 20.The road bridge on the river Toplica, on the Nis-Pristina road near the town of Kursumlija, was heavily damaged (14 and 19 April 1999); 21.The bridge on the river Ibar, at the village of Biljanovac near Raska, sustained heavy damages (15.04.1999.); 22.The bridge between Smederevo and Kovin has been destroyed (16 April 1999); 23.The railway bridge on the river Kostajnica, near Kursumlija, has sustained heavy damages and is out of service (18.04.1999.); 24.The bridge on the river Kosanica, at the village of Selo Visoko, has sustained heavy damages and is out of service (18.04.1999.); 2. RAILWAYS RAILWAY STATIONS (12): 1.The Kraljevo - Kosovo Polje rail, near Ibarska Slatina; 2.The Belgrade - Bar rail, due to the destruction of the railway track near the village of Strbce and destruction of the bridge on the river Lim, between Priboj and Prijepolje; 3.The Kursumlija - Prokuplje rail, near Pepeljevac village; 4.The Kraljevo - Kosovo Polje rail, near Ibarska Slatina; 5.The Nis - Pristina rail, near Kursumlija; 6."Sarpelj" tunnel, near Jerinje village, 15 km north of Leposavic towards Raska, was destroyed; 7.Railway station in Kraljevo (Bogutovac); 8.Railway station in Kosovo Polje; 9.The Belgrade - Thessaloniki rail, due to the destruction of the bridge in the Grdelica gorge; 10.Railway station in the town of Biljanovac; 11.Railway track and overpass (Josinacka Banja) near the town of Biljanovac; 12.Railway track Kursumlija - Podujevo, due to damages on the railway bridge at Kursumlija; [img]http://www.serbia-info.com/g3/images/grdel3_m.jpg[/img] 3. ROADS AND TRANSPORTERS (6 MAJOR ROADS): 1.Ibarska primary road, due to damages to the bridge on the Ibar river, Biljanovac municipality, and destruction of the road between Pozega and Cacak; 2.Belgrade-Zagreb highway, near Stari Banovci; 3.Traffic suspended on the Kosovska Mitrovica-Ribarici section of the Adriatic highway due to the destruction of the bridge over the Vrbacka river; 4."Jedinstvo" bus station in Vranje sustained extensive damage; 5."Kosmet Prevoz" transporter in Gnjilane (a hangar full of new buses); 6.Kraljevo-Raska primary road; 7.Bus station in Pristina; 8.Traffic has been suspended on the Krusevac-Pojate road due to the destruction of the bridge on the Zapadna Morava, in the village of Jasika; 9.Traffic has been suspended on the Nis-Pristina road, due to the fact that the bridge on the river Toplica, near the town of Kursumlija, has sustained heavy damage; 4. AIRPORTS (7): "Slatina" in Pristina; "Batajnica" and "Surcin" in Belgrade; Nis airport; "Ponikve" in Uzice; "Golubovac" in Podgorica, "Ladjevci" airport near Kraljevo; agricultural and sports airfield in Sombor. ECONOMIC AND CIVILIAN TARGETS, PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS The air strikes have so far destroyed or damaged all over the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia several thousand economic facilities and dwellings. In the Leskovac region alone, over 3,500 industrial facilities and dwellings were either destroyed or damaged. The devastation of NATO forces was particularly manifest in Pristina, Novi Sad, Aleksinac, Djakovica, Prokuplje, Gracanica, Cuprija, etc. Housing blocks on the outskirts of Belgrade - Kijevo Knecevac, Batajnica, Jakovo, Borca, as well as the area around Pancevo, were under attack. "

you can see which ones are applicable and which aren't.

8/18/2005 6:55:13 PM

Quote :

"1. INDUSTRY AND TRADE: The NATO aggressor's attacks targeted the factories and industrial facilities which directly cater for the needs of the population, among which are: [img]http://www.serbia-info.com/g3/images/valjevo004m.jpg[/img] Water pipes factory in Valjevo 1."Lola Utva" agricultural aircraft factory in Pancevo; 2."Galenika" drug factory in Belgrade; 3."Zdravlje" pharmaceutical plant in Leskovac; 4."Sloboda" white goods factory in Cacak; 5."Din" tobacco industry in Nis; 6."Elektronska industrija" factory in Nis; 7."Div" cigarette factory in Vranje; 8.Tubes factory in Urosevac; 9."Jastrebac" machine industry in Nis; 10."Milan Blagojevic" chemical plant in Lucani; 11.Plastics factory in Pristina; 12."Binacka Morava" hydro construction company in Gnjilane; 13."Nova Jugoslavija" printers in Vranje; 14.Facilities of the "Beograd" rail company in Nis; 15.Over 250 commercial and crafts shops in Djakovica were destroyed; 16."Dijana" shoe factory in Sremska Mitrovica; 17."Zastava" car factory in Kragujevac; 18."14 Oktobar" machine factory in Krusevac; 19.Cotton yarn factory in PriStina; 20."Krusik" holding corporation in Valjevo; 21."Ciklonizacija" in Novi Sad; 22."Tehnogas" in Novi Sad; 23."Novograp" in Novi Sad; 24."Gumins" in Novi Sad; 25."Albus" in Novi Sad; 26."Petar Drapsin" in Novi Sad; 27."Motins" in Novi Sad; 28."Izolacija" in Novi Sad; 29."Novokabel" in Novi Sad; 30."Istra" fittings factory in Kula; 31.The port of Bogojevo; 32.Industrial complex "Dvadeset Prvi Maj" in Rakovica; 33.Machine building plant "Industrija Motora Rakovica" in Rakovica; 34.Factory "Jugostroj" in Pancevo; 35.Factory "Frigostroj" in Pancevo; 36.Surface coal mine "Belacevac"; 2. REFINERIES AND WAREHOUSES Refineries and warehouses storing liquid raw materials and chemicals intended for the oil and chemical industry, were hit in Pancevo, Novi Sad, Sombor and elsewhere, causing large contamination of soil and the air: 1.Fuel storage in Lipovica, which caused a great fire in the Lipovica forest (on 26 March 1999); 2.Oil Refinery in Pancevo - totally demolished (4-16 April 1999); 3."Jugopetrol" installations in Smederevo (on 4-13 April 1999); 4."Jugopetrol" storage in Sombor (on 7 April 1999); 5."Beopetrol" storages in Belgrade and Bogutovac (on 4 April 1999); 6."Beopetrol" fuel storage in Pristina (on 7 April 1999); 7.Fuel storage of the boiler plant in Novi Beograd (on 4 April 1999); 8.Thermo electric power station/boiler plant in Novi Sad (on 5 April 1999); 9.Oil Refinery in Novi Sad, storage of bitumen (5 and 6 April 1999); 10.Fuel storage "Naftagas promet" which is located 10 km from Sombor (5 April 1999); 11.Naftagas warehouse between Conoplje and Kljaicevo (Sombor); 12.Jugopetrol warehouse in Pristina (on 12 April 1999); 13.Jugopetrol petrol station in Pristina ( on 13 April 1999); 14.Petrochemical industry "DP HIP PETROHEMIJA" in Pancevo - totally demolished (14-15 April 1999); 15.Fertilizer plant "DP HIP AZOTARA" in Pancevo - totally destroyed (14-15 April 1999); 16.Chemical plant "Prva Iskra" in Baric - destruction of the production line (19 April 1999); 3. AGRICULTURE: 1.PIK "Kopaonik" in Kursumlija; 2.PIK "Mladost" in Gnjilane; 3.Agricultural Complex "Malizgan" in Dolac; 4.Agricultural Complex "Djuro Strugar" in Kula; 4. HOSPITALS AND HEALTH CARE CENTRES (16): NATO aviation also targeted many hospitals and health-care institutions, which have been partially damaged or totally destroyed, including: [img]http://www.serbia-info.com/g3/images/vma11m.jpg[/img] Hospital in center of Belgrade Hospital and Medical Centre in the territory in Leskovac; Hospital and Poly-clinic in Nis; Gerontological Centre in Leskovac; General Hospital in Djakovica; City Hospital in Novi Sad; Gynaecological Hospital and Maternity Ward of the Clinical Centre in Belgrade; Neuropsychiatric Ward "Dr. Laza Lazarevic" and Central Pharmacy of the Emergency Centre in Belgrade; Army Medical Academy in Belgrade; Medical Centre and Ambulance Centre in Aleksinac; "Sveti Sava" hospital in Belgrade; Medical Centre in Kraljevo; Dispensary on Mount Zlatibor; Health Care Centre in Rakovica; 5. SCHOOLS (MORE THAN 190 FACILITIES) Over 190 schools, faculties and facilities for students and children were damaged or destroyed (over 20 faculties, 6 collages, 40 secondary and 80 elementary schools, 6 student dormitories), including: Elementary schools "16. oktobar" and "Vladimir Rolovic" in Belgrade; Day-care centre in settlement Petlovo Brdo in Belgrade; Two secondary schools in the territory of Nis; Elementary schools "Toza Markovic", "Djordje Natosevic", "Veljko Vlahovic", "Sangaj" and "Djuro Danicic" and a day-care centre "Duga" in Novi Sad and creches in Visarionova Street and in the neighbourhood of Sangaj; Traffic School Centre, Faculty of Philosophy; Four elementary schools and a Medical high school in the territory of Leskovac; Elementary school in Lucane, as well as a larger number of education facilities in the territory of Kosovo and Metohija; Faculties of Law and Economics and elementary school "Radoje Domanovic" in Nis; Elementary schools in Kraljevo and the villages of Cvetka, Aketa and Ladjevci; In Sombor: elementary schools "Ivo Lola Ribar", "A. Mrazovic", "N. Vukicevic" and "Nikola Tesla" in Kljajicevo; School centre in Kula; Elementary school and Engineering secondary school centre in Rakovica; 6. PUBLIC AND HOUSING FACILITIES (TENS OF THOUSANDS) Severe damage to the facilities of the Republican and Federal Ministry of the Interior in Belgrade (3 April 1999), Damage to the building of the Institute for Security of the Ministry of the Interior in Banjica (3 April 1999); Severe damage to the TV RTS studio in Pristina; Heavy damage to Hydro-Meteorological Station (Bukulja, near Arandjelovac); Post Office in Pristina destroyed (7 April 1999); Refugee centre in Pristina destroyed (7 April 1999); "Tornik" ski resort on Mount Zlatibor (on 8 April 1999); "Divcibare" mountain resort (on 11 April 1999); "Baciste" Hotel on Mount Kopaonik (on 12 April 1999); City power plant in the town of Krusevac (12-13 April 1999); Meteorological Station on Mount Kopaonik damaged (on 13 April 1999); Four libraries in Rakovica sustained heavy damage: "Radoje Dakic", "Isidora Sekulic", "Milos Crnjanski" and "Dusan Matic"; Refugee camp "7 juli" in Paracin has sustained heavy damage; Office building of the Provincial Executive Council of Vojvodina, Novi Sad; Several thousand housing facilities damaged or destroyed, privately or State owned, across Yugoslavia - most striking examples being housing blocks in downtown Aleksinac and those near Post Office in Pristina. 7. INFRASTRUCTURE: Electrical Power Supply in Batajnica (26 March 1999); Damage to water supply system in Zemun (5 April 1999); Damage to a power station in Bogutovac (10 April 1999); Telephone lines cut off in Bogutovac (10 April 1999); Damage to a power station in Pristina (12 April 1999); Damage to Bistrica hydroelectric power station in Polinje (13 April 1999); TELECOMMUNICATIONS TV TRANSMITTERS (17): 1.Jastrebac (Prokuplje) 2.Gucevo (Loznica) 3.Cot (Fruska Gora) 4.Grmija (Pristina) 5.Bogutovac (Pristina) 6.TV transmitter on Mt Goles (Pristina) 7.Mokra Gora (Pristina) 8.Kutlovac (Stari Trg) 9."Cigota" (Uzice) 10."Tornik" (Uzice) 11.Transmitter on Crni Vrh (Jagodina) 12.Satellite station (in Prilike near Ivanjica) 13.TV masts and transmitters (Novi Sad) 14.TV transmitter on Mt Ovcara (Cacak) 15.TV transmitter in Kijevo (Belgrade) 16.TV transmitter on Mt Cer 17.Communications relay on Mt Jagodnji (Krupanj) "

sorry the pictures don't work, but they do on the website (note that i don't post pics of the dead, just the destruction)

8/18/2005 6:56:27 PM

bleh.

[Edited on August 18, 2005 at 10:04 PM. Reason : -]

8/18/2005 10:04:41 PM

Quote :

"CIVILIAN VICTIMS AND DEVASTATION IN NATO AGGRESSION ON YUGOSLAVIA "

Right, a national Serbian website.....yeah, that’s a good source to quote. Oh, wait aren’t these the same genocidal fucks responsible for the mass graves we're still digging up? Brilliant!

8/19/2005 12:51:33 AM

Quote :

"That is how you join two seperate topics, and prove once and for all that those against stem-cell research that support war are hypocrits. "

On the contrary - someone doing that would simply show their lack of understanding of moral philosophy and the law of dual effect. Showing their own ignorance, in other words. Which does not seem like something that someone who has any sense would want to be doing.

8/19/2005 1:55:36 AM