Because you can't make babies.

Regardless of whether you impregnated a girl or not, SHE gives birth and ultimately it is ALWAYS HER CHOICE.

The only true way you can be pro-life would be to put all women into vegetative coma's while pregnant to ensure delivery. Which isn't going to happen on this planet.

So men, get the fuck over yourselves and realize pro-choice is NOT pro-abortion.

8/20/2005 3:51:02 PM

sorry for being an empathetic man. i thought that is what you bitches wanted. make up ur goddamn minds.

8/20/2005 3:57:05 PM

its my choice too bitch, i made the fuckin baby too, and if i dont want it, and u do, i will beat the shit out of you...

abortion the hard way

8/20/2005 4:03:37 PM

i was thinking a similar thing. we cant force you to have it, but we can certianly do the opposite.

8/20/2005 4:04:47 PM

egg+sperm=baby

dont give a fuck who it happens to come out of

8/20/2005 4:06:11 PM

A mans part in making a baby takes a few minutes, a womans takes 9 months.

Its her choice. (imo)

[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 4:16 PM. Reason : ed]

8/20/2005 4:09:27 PM

its not our fault eve fucked up

that baby is as much mine as it is hers

if she doesnt want it and i do, well tough caca

8/20/2005 4:21:04 PM

I find this set of circumstances rather interesting because it leads to a fun legal game. If the man wants the baby, and the woman doesn't, legaly, it's her choice and the hell with what the man wants. Likewise, if the woman wants the baby but the man doesn't it's again her choice and the hell with what the man wants, but in this fun case, she can hit him up for child support.

8/20/2005 5:22:01 PM

You goddamn hippies can't seem to wrap your minds around the obvious.

If the "choice" is between someone's enduring physical pain -- even a lot of physical pain -- and someone being killed...then it's not a fucking choice.

8/20/2005 5:24:11 PM

no matter how much you want it to be, the world is not black and white.

8/20/2005 5:35:58 PM

^^ some ppl would argue extreme pain (tortue lets say) is worse than death

8/20/2005 5:57:16 PM

Maybe it's because I just woke up or something, but I don't understand the point Noen is making.

Isn't a man pro-life if he believes abortions should be illegal?

8/20/2005 5:58:38 PM

I think that some abortions should be illegal... hell I'd even be for anything past the first month illegal.. but I'm not going to expect other people to conform to my expectations.

8/20/2005 6:05:06 PM

men have no rights when it comes to reproduction

if a woman decided she doesn't want to be a mother she is just pro-choice and is using her rights as a woman, if a man decides he doesn't want to be a father he is a deadbeat

where is men's option of refusal?

8/20/2005 6:12:04 PM

Quote :

"where is men's option of refusal?"

That goes away when you don't refuse to stick your dick in her.

8/20/2005 6:42:09 PM

Quote :

"some ppl would argue extreme pain (tortue lets say) is worse than death"

That's fine in a situation where the person dying is you. But you don't get to escape pain by making someone else die.

8/20/2005 6:43:13 PM

i escape the pain of hunger by making a cow die.

like a fetus is any more sentient than a cow at the stage where the fetus is aborted.

8/20/2005 6:50:10 PM

So animals are on the same moral plane as people now?

Son, you done opened up something you don't want to mess with.

Are all animals on the same plane, or just some?

Because, I mean, retards and young children are far less sentient than some primates.

8/20/2005 6:59:26 PM

Quote :

" That goes away when you don't refuse to stick your dick in her."

not for women
they still have an option

8/20/2005 7:06:03 PM

don't even try to call me "son". there's still a thread waiting your answer, chica. oh wait, you know you were wrong about that, too.

if a fetus is undeveloped sentiently, then how can it be anything more than an animal?

well, maybe your ID theory can explain it to me, 'cause i just don't see it.

8/20/2005 7:06:47 PM

even though i dont agree with him, grumpygop is gonna wipe the floor with your argument

8/20/2005 7:10:00 PM

fine, he can have it, im not a fan of arguing abortion. im only interested in hard, objective facts, like the situations in iraq and kosovo.

8/20/2005 7:12:46 PM

Every sperm is sacred.

8/20/2005 7:18:05 PM

Quote :

"if a fetus is undeveloped sentiently, then how can it be anything more than an animal?"

I am going to have a field day.

If a retarded kid is undeveloped sentiently, how is it not an animal?

Ditto for little kids?

Ditto for the senile?

Quote :

"well, maybe your ID theory can explain it to me"

Bitch ain't got nothing but shit between his ears. Where the fuck have you seen me say I put any stock in ID? Where the fuck have you seen it? Oh, that's right, you fucking haven't. Come back when you've got some shit to say. Damn.

8/20/2005 7:25:17 PM

^^ yup, your not just killing kittens when you beat off.

8/20/2005 7:29:00 PM

Quote :

"Every sperm is sacred."

There's already a thread full of this bullshit going several pages long, why don't you take it there so I can just cut and paste things I've already said to make you look like a goddamn fool.

8/20/2005 7:32:20 PM

Quote :

"Where the fuck have you seen me say I put any stock in ID? Where the fuck have you seen it? Oh, that's right, you fucking haven't. Come back when you've got some shit to say. Damn."

sorry, i just got you confused with aaronburro in the creationism thread.

Quote :

"Come back when you've got some shit to say. Damn."

okay toots. oh, looks like you finally responded to kosovo. im gonna go check that out now.

Quote :

"If a retarded kid is undeveloped sentiently, how is it not an animal? Ditto for little kids? Ditto for the senile?"

1. it is an animal
2. it is an animal
3. they are already developed sentiently. and don't think i'm against assisted suicide.

8/20/2005 7:37:36 PM

So now we can round up and kill little kids and retards, because they're animals.

Whatever you say there, adolf

[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 7:39 PM. Reason : THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES YOU HUMAN IS BEING SMART!!!1]

[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 7:39 PM. Reason : How sentient do you have to be in order to be human?]

8/20/2005 7:38:45 PM

The argument doesn't make much sense. We can of course make laws to penalize people who commit abortions. Why should people be excluded from this debate based on their gender?

Would you say that every female Senator and Member of Congress should have to abstain from votes related to war? Only men are eligible to be drafted.

Quote :

"Because you can't make babies."

I have a new policy with respect to reading posts in the Soap Box; I read until I come across the very first error, whether a factual error or a reasoning error, and then I stop and call it out. Didn't take too long in this case.

[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 8:45 PM. Reason : add]

8/20/2005 8:43:38 PM

^^i love that sensationalism, toots. because i forgot i was defending eating fetuses, retards, and small children. thanks for reminding me : roll :

Quote :

"THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES YOU HUMAN IS BEING SMART How sentient do you have to be in order to be human"

i don't understand: fetuses are more human than Kosovars and Iraqis?? or at least more deserving of your sympathy.

wait, i think i understand. i feel unsentient (and/or) unsapient fetuses are okay to be terminated and living, breathing Kosovars and Iraqis with sentience and sapience aren't okay.

for you, it's vice versa.

signed,


[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 8:49 PM. Reason : late]

8/20/2005 8:49:28 PM

What do Kosovars and Iraquis have to do with the issue under discussion? Perhaps you have accidentally clicked on the wrong thread. Worry not, it happens to all of us. Simply go back and post in the correct thread.

8/20/2005 8:51:13 PM

it's actually an ad hominem attack, so don't worry, they fit in every thread.

8/20/2005 8:52:33 PM

That was not an answer to my question. Did you fail to understand the question? What word do you need help with?

8/20/2005 8:54:19 PM

You obviously refrained from responding to the meat of my post, because there is no reasonable response.

You called retards and small children "animals." You also said that senile people, who have no means of consenting to suicide despite being conscious and physiologically functional, could be "suicided." Have the repurcussions of such stances even approached the fringes of your feeble mind?

I ask again: how sentient do you have to be in order to be protectable? You can talk about Iraqis, but don't bring them into an answer to this question. I want a straightforward line before which a person can be killed with a clean conscience.

Quote :

"fetuses are more human than Kosovars and Iraqis??"

No, you blithering tit, and that's exactly the point. Kosovars are humans. That's why they get protected like all other humans. When someone tries to kill them, I want to stop those would-be killers. If I can't stop them by being nice, I stop them with force. Now you want to defend the lives of people who would commit genocide? Have fun with that.

8/20/2005 9:01:16 PM

Quote :

"That goes away when you don't refuse to stick your dick in her."

It takes two to tango. If thats when the man's right ends, then that should be when the woman's right ends. Otherwise the gov't is being discriminatory.

8/20/2005 9:07:56 PM

btw, the original post HAS to be a troll. because if its not, its even dumber than everythinjg I've ever said on here.

8/20/2005 9:12:02 PM

Quote :

"So now we can round up and kill little kids and retards, because they're animals."

i didn't say that at all. personally, i wouldn't kill a retard because i figure they have better lives than normal people. and for the record, retards are most definitely sentient and sapient.

but in retrospect, i don't think little kids are insentient, i was just being a douche.

just because something is an animal i don't promote killing it. I have less regard for its life, however. choice of killing 1 of fetus or cow, i'd definitely choose cow, regardless of its food value. that said, i would also choose a fetus over a retard to kill.

Quote :

"I ask again: how sentient do you have to be in order to be protectable? "

unfortunately i cannot quantify sentience.

Quote :

"I want a straightforward line before which a person can be killed with a clean conscience."

clearly you feel that they can be born in Kosovo and be killed in a hospital that gets blown up by a missile or bomb from NATO with a clean conscience. from the other thread i have seen no regard from you for any civilian life, as long as NATO tells the truth.

Quote :

"You also said that senile people, who have no means of consenting to suicide despite being conscious and physiologically functional, could be "suicided." "

you have just done is called inference, and regretably it is false. in my response 3. when i say assisted suicide i mean just that, assisted, not forced. I implied that i agree with helping those wanting to die commit suicide. see the difference between implications and inferences?

Quote :

"Now you want to defend the lives of people who would commit genocide?"

note: Kosovars were those being forced out and killed because they were 90% Muslim. I don't know when Iraqis committed genocide.

you're not making any sense.

[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 10:15 PM. Reason : f]

8/20/2005 10:10:40 PM

Quote :

"That was not an answer to my question. Did you fail to understand the question? What word do you need help with?"

considering i was addressing my reply solely to GrumpyGOP I a) feel no need to answer your asinine, trolling questions, and b) am in my complete capacity to bring up different topics in my argument (especially since it was trying to resolve 2 seemingly opposite stances he takes).

[Edited on August 20, 2005 at 10:16 PM. Reason : whoops about the double post.]

8/20/2005 10:16:16 PM

A PRO CHOICE WOMAN IS TRYING TO PLAY GOD

LIBERALS ARE TOO PUSSY TO FIGHT TERROR

FAGS ARE GAY BURN BURN BURN





DISCUSS

8/20/2005 10:32:26 PM

This thread is fucking stupid.

8/20/2005 10:35:08 PM

Debating any subject in the soap box is equivalent to trying to milk a cat.

8/20/2005 10:40:04 PM

^^^^ Is that the reason? Or is it because you have no answers to the quesion I asked? I suspect it is the latter.

8/20/2005 11:14:39 PM

Quote :

"So men, get the fuck over yourselves and realize pro-choice is NOT pro-abortion."

actually it is. You have to step back and look at what you are supporting when it sounds bad to actually say you are for what you are supporting...

8/21/2005 12:40:33 AM

i'm very against abortion but think that it should still be a woman's right

[Edited on August 21, 2005 at 1:17 AM. Reason : at the same time though i dont think a man should be forced to be a father]

8/21/2005 1:11:23 AM

i am not pro-abortion. i think abortion is a bad thing. but i also think that other people have the right to make their own decisions about this. also, it is not my place to tell others what they can and can't do with their bodies. epecially since i'm a man and can not possibly know what having a child is like. i feel there are some instances where abortions are a reasonable choice. i don't think that we should legislate when one can and cannot have an abortion. this is a woman's decision.

8/21/2005 1:14:30 AM

Quote :

"also, it is not my place to tell others what they can and can't do with their bodies."

Let me show you your error by committing the same error in another context. Let's say I get angry with someone, and I decide to kill them. I use my hands to strangle them. Should I be legally allowed to do that? If not, then you are telling me what I can and can't do with my body! How can you do that, you evil oppressor you?

You have made an assumption of the argument. You have assumed that the only thing in question is your body. It is not. There is an unborn child's body to consider too. My right to control my body (my hands) ends at that hypothetical person's neck. So should your right to control your body end when it comes to killing another human being.

You have assumed that we are not dealing with another human being - and that is the crucial part of the argument. So instead of assuming away the argument, you need to take a step back and address that crucial point before you start talking about anything else, correct?

[Edited on August 21, 2005 at 1:26 AM. Reason : ad]

8/21/2005 1:24:23 AM

... unless you dont think its killing another person

8/21/2005 1:25:27 AM

granted. so that is the central question that needs addressing. THAT is the question that needs to be addressed before talking about "my body" or any of these other arguments. That's all I am saying - that he assumed away the crucial question in the argument.

8/21/2005 1:27:00 AM

To kill or not to kill is the question. Wheather tis nobler to let the infant cease to exist or experience life without a caring mother?

you got me there bud, lets just leave it there for the women to deciede
Me personally, i dont like it, but i have no power of someone just as i have no power in winning a debate in a place like the soap box

[Edited on August 21, 2005 at 1:34 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on August 21, 2005 at 1:34 AM. Reason : winning and wining pretty much the same thing here]

8/21/2005 1:32:35 AM

i think we should also just leave murder to murderers
who am i to decide


seriously man, thats the biggest philisophical cop out

8/21/2005 1:34:30 AM