34 Days until Basketball season

10/15/2005 1:29:29 AM

gg

10/15/2005 1:31:11 AM

gg

10/15/2005 1:31:24 AM

lol!

10/15/2005 1:31:47 AM

FIRE HERB

DISBAND WOLFPACK SPORTS!11

10/15/2005 1:33:15 AM

That's a good picture of Herbie.

10/15/2005 2:24:52 AM

Preseason ranked you think??

Yes or No?

I think no. 23 in AP, unranked in Coaches because ESPN are a bunch of dickheads

10/15/2005 2:25:59 AM

Depends on Gavin.

10/15/2005 2:27:33 AM

Amato had Rivers, Herb had Hodge. It'll be interesting to see how many are left riding Herb's nuts after this season if things don't go well.

10/15/2005 2:43:53 AM

Quote :

"It means (as someone else mentioned) that someone (or some people) of influence forced his hand to issue some type of statement after last night's aborted attempt at a football contest. Otherwise, you're right, Lee is in no position to do anything at this point or at anytime in the future. Maybe Vandy had the right idea in scrapping the whole AD "thing" altogether? Seens like another layer of wasted money to me. "

^unlike the football team, ive noticed that the individual basketball players improve year after year

10/15/2005 2:47:35 AM

This thread gets a GG

10/15/2005 2:50:22 AM

10/15/2005 2:52:17 AM

I can name quite a few players who did not get better in their 4 years. Levi Watkins, for example.

I am not concerned with something arbitrary like individual player improvement because it's all relative. Winning and losing is the best standard for judgment. Everybody is hating on Amato right now saying he owed his early success to Rivers. Fine, I can accept that. Why shouldn't the same standard be applied to Herb Sendek and Hodge, not to mention 5 fruitless years before Hodge arrived at State.

10/15/2005 2:54:15 AM

Quote :

" Why shouldn't the same standard be applied to Herb Sendek and Hodge, not to mention 5 fruitless years before Hodge arrived at State. "

1) Our Bball was in the complete shitter when Herb came, no one expected shit.
2) When Amato got here it was, we have an FSU assistant coach, former player and coach, he will win and win big.
3) We've played 1+ seasons without Rivers. We haven't played a game without Hodge.
4) The Bball team was gradually getting better under Herb his first 5 years, even if it was baby steps. He was building a foundation that we are seeing the results of.
5) Amato is flash, Herb is substance.
6) Amato doesn't know how to coach in turmoil, Rivers bailed him out for 4 years.
7) Herb is a solid coach, even if you don't like the style of the offense.

10/15/2005 3:04:15 AM

1) NCSU is a basketball school. 2 National Titles and 10 ACC Titles. Football, by comparison, has never had anywhere close to the success of the basketball program, not to mention Herb has a pretty abysmal overall record in the ACC. One 2nd place finish, 4 tourney appearances, 3 ACC tourney final appearances and 1 sweet sixteen in 9 years is great for a basketball school? If that is your idea of success then your expectations for a program mirror that of about every mid major in Division I basketball.

2) Lots of coaches step into bad situations. Gary Williams at Maryland, Dave Odom at Wake Forest, Roy Williams at uncch, Hewitt at GT, Coach K at Duke, and it didn't take them until year 6 to turn things around if your idea of turning it around is simply making it to the NCAAs. He also has something that none of them had, at least by year 4 - a state of the art arena. Before year 6, we had a losing season. It's year 10 so I think it's about time that the "Herb inherited a bad program" argument be put to rest.

3) Herb is all about playing in daytight compartments, chopping wood, quoting Buddha, it's a marathon not a sprint, ad nauseum.

4) Herb is solid. Not great, but solid. He hasn't shown me that he has what it takes to win which for most other programs means championships and/or deep runs into the NCAAs.

5) Which leads me to my whole point - Herb should be judged by the same standard that Amato is being held to and will be held to after this season.

10/15/2005 3:20:23 AM

^

Please summarize

Are you able to accept the obvious fact that our coaching sucks shit? or no?

10/15/2005 3:31:22 AM

Yes. The football program is in a complete state of crap right now. IMO Herb isn't much better. Considering what Amato has done, Philip or not, is pretty incredible. It's sad but our only double digit winning season in football, our biggest bowl win ever and highest finish in the polls happened under Amato's watch.

I understand that people are pissed. Count me as one of the many. But to think that Herb is all of a sudden Mr. Super Coach because of this football season does a great disservice to our basketball program and comparing the two is really an apples and oranges comparison.

10/15/2005 3:40:55 AM

Quote :

"Considering what Amato has done, Philip or not, is pretty incredible. "

I can lose all ACC home games, and win against an EKU team at head / d / and o coach.

10/15/2005 3:43:18 AM

I've always thought that Herb was super.

10/15/2005 3:48:42 AM

^ All of my friends at Carolina think the same thing.

10/15/2005 3:49:49 AM

^

wlfpk4life!!!!!!!!!!11

FOR

LIFE

10/15/2005 3:50:46 AM

Your friends at Carolina probably think that a bunch of dumb thugs running the team is okay, too.

(I'm talking about Carolina's bball team, btw, not our football team.)

10/15/2005 3:53:27 AM

if you cant beat them join them

so i bought a carolina MVP shirt the other day

i got a short sleeved one with black and white stripes running vertically

10/15/2005 4:03:08 AM

Mine is dark blue with long sleeves, and has authentic-style letters in yellow on the back, "INS".

10/15/2005 4:06:57 AM

Quote :

"Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fans are not being unreasonable. They are loyal to the Wolfpack, and are incensed that the coaching staff and players cannot correct the mental errors that constantly put them in the losing column. They are tired of excuses, tired of being told that the team “is close,” tired of fair catches inside the five yard line, tired of blown coverages, overthrown passes, missed opportunities, tired of showboating and tired of yellow flags littering Carter-Finley Stadium like plastic wrappers blown in a hurricane. Most Pack fans want to win, yes. But reasonable Pack fans can accept losing and struggling seasons. What they cannot accept is incompetence and unwarranted arrogance. They deserve better and they are no longer asking it – they are demanding it."

Quote :

"Did anyone else notice some of our players laughing when Chuck got booed?Things are not good at this time"

Quote :

"If the players are laughing at their coach being booed then that explains alot of the problems. If they think the way they are playing is a joke and they aren't embarrashed then that explains why this bunch of "individuals" play the way they do. They are chumps... "

Quote :

"I am glad that the NC State Wolfpack is not an Army unit in combat. They would all be dead and we would be occupied if we depended on them for our lives and not mere entertainment."

[Edited on October 15, 2005 at 4:32 AM. Reason : ,]

10/15/2005 4:27:25 AM

Quote :

"I can name quite a few players who did not get better in their 4 years. Levi Watkins, for example."

You Herb haters are really getting old. Levi was hurt for 3 outta the 4 years he was here. And did you ever think we were recruiting better players to play over him like Brackman and Simmons. If you people dont see how we are getting better in basketball then fuck off.

Quote :

"Amato had Rivers, Herb had Hodge. It'll be interesting to see how many are left riding Herb's nuts after this season if things don't go well."

Good positive outlook. That is why I have seen us ranked as high as 15th in one preseason publication.

Quote :

"I am not concerned with something arbitrary like individual player improvement because it's all relative. Winning and losing is the best standard for judgment. Everybody is hating on Amato right now saying he owed his early success to Rivers. Fine, I can accept that. Why shouldn't the same standard be applied to Herb Sendek and Hodge, not to mention 5 fruitless years before Hodge arrived at State."

Because we have actually been good the last 4 years!! Those first five were building years and even then 4 of those we went to the NIT which is equal to the Fucking Tangerine Bowl. And yes our program was SHIT. Read PROBATION. Gary Williams, Paul Hewitt, etc. did not deal with that. Stop Hating Herb! But at least if you do, basketball tickets will still be easy to get.

10/15/2005 9:16:52 AM

what up stinger.

Yes, Herb will save NC State Athletics this season.

10/15/2005 9:20:36 AM

Herb will pwn all you guys

10/15/2005 9:46:54 AM

Quote :

"Because we have actually been good the last 4 years!! Those first five were building years and even then 4 of those we went to the NIT which is equal to the Fucking Tangerine Bowl. And yes our program was SHIT. Read PROBATION. Gary Williams, Paul Hewitt, etc. did not deal with that. Stop Hating Herb! But at least if you do, basketball tickets will still be easy to get."

FYI Maryland was under probation when Gary Williams got there and their program was in worse shape than ours when Herb took over. There's other examples of coaches who have taken over bad situations, like Ohio State for example, and it hasn't taken nearly as long to turn things around.

I'd compare the Tangerine Bowl to a 1st round loss in the NCAAs since there about as many bowl slot openings as there are NCAA tourney spots.

Pssst...maybe there's a reason basketball tickets are so easy to get. I'm not going to shell out money for a coach that barely meets expectations. During 2 out of Hodge's 4 years at State we had to make a deep run in the ACC Tourney just to make the field of 65.

Quote :

"Good positive outlook. That is why I have seen us ranked as high as 15th in one preseason publication. "

Yeah, we were rated pretty high before the beginning of Philip's last season too. Preseason rankings is all about potential, not actual performance. BTW, the ACC is going to be down this year so Herb really has no excuse.

Quote :

"You Herb haters are really getting old. Levi was hurt for 3 outta the 4 years he was here. And did you ever think we were recruiting better players to play over him like Brackman and Simmons. If you people dont see how we are getting better in basketball then fuck off."

Scooter Sherrill? Archie Miller? Simmons barely saw the court last year. The basketball team, must like our football team, looks pretty good on paper. All I am saying is to hold Herbie to the same standard that Amato is being held to. Is that such an unreasonable request?

10/15/2005 10:05:41 AM

nope

so when amato gets our team to the football equivalent of the sweet 16 we'll start talking about the "same standard"

10/15/2005 10:24:12 AM

He did, it's called the Gator Bowl which is a Tier II bowl.

10/15/2005 10:42:15 AM

Stolen from SandSanta, but still perfectly relevant:

Quote :

"Herb doesn't wear clown shoes. Herb doesn't set Nation Championship expectations. Herb doesn't wear sunglasses at night. Herb doesn't talk with the shrill of a man who had his testicles removed. Herb takes a bucket of shit from inbred idiots like yourself and doesn't once reply with something negative. You know, along the lines of "you people didnt come to the WOC[lol], thats why we lost" When ESPN announcers talk about herb, they always give him respect instead of commenting about bitch tits and clown shoes. I've never ever heard of our basketball team being accused of Discipline issues in the last five years. Quite the opposite, our team is almost always described as "methodical", which off course is one of the reason inbred idiots like yourself hate him. Herb has given us steady improvement with top tier finishes in one of the toughest Basketball conferences in the country. Chuck has managed to finish 4th with possibly the best ACC QB ever before Miami, VT and BC joined (that is, when the conference was a football shitter). Oh, and lets not forget the small fact that when the team was 2-8 and inbred idiots like yourself had given up on them (even I was waivering at that point), our team played with enough heart to get back onto the bubble and then completely and utterly destroyed Wake Forest in a National televised revenge game. The only faults last season had in my mind were the two losses to Carolina but that team went to the NBA so I suppose I should have expected it. Don't get me wrong, Herb has many many faults but to put him on the same page as a clown and compare his teams to that abortion of an athletic event yesterday is comparing apples to beetle turds."

10/15/2005 10:44:16 AM

Quote :

"Herb doesn't set Nation Championship expectations."

So this is a good thing?

10/15/2005 10:48:39 AM

it's good to not set up highs that you can't reach yet. You WORK to get to a point. You don't walk into a job at an entry level and demand to be the CEO the next year.

10/15/2005 10:50:30 AM

10 years at a program is not considered fucking entry level. Maybe when I'm 50 we'll make it past the Sweet 16.

10/15/2005 10:56:49 AM

so any coach that hasn't made it past the sweet sixteen in 10 years is a failure? bullshit.

10/15/2005 11:04:22 AM

Where did I say that? Did I call Herb a failure? On the contrary, I said he was a solid coach, definitely not great. His situation at State, given our history as a program, is a lot more sweeter than the one that Amato took over.

Just to clarify:

1) Amato has done some nice things at NC State but these past 2 years, especially if we tank the rest of the season, leads me to think that he may be in over his head. Fine, if he needs to be replaced I'm all for it. Being proactive about these kinds of situations is a good thing.

2) Comparing our football program to the basketball program is like comparing Sanderson High School to the Dallas Cowboys. We have never been a national contender in football. That does not, however, make up for the lack of disipline, coaching, and fundamentals that we have constantly seen since Philip left.

3) Giving Herb a pass because of Amato's ineptness is serving a discredit to our basketball program, because we have been at the top and there's no reason, given our tradition, facilities, fanbase and monetary support, to think that NC State can't return to the national level in terms of championships. Every State fan knew that each time Case, Sloan or Valvano's teams were in the tourney, we had a chance to win it all everytime. I do not see the same amount of optimism or expectations for the current coaching regime.



[Edited on October 15, 2005 at 11:21 AM. Reason : ]

10/15/2005 11:15:04 AM

Everyone already knows my stance on this but let me re-iterate just in case.


Herb is a good basketball coach.


That is why he belongs at a program like Miami University where he can do well in the MAC every year with little pressure. He can take less talented athletes and make them competitive against major competition.

Herb does NOT belong in the ACC at NC State University where he is competing against the best day in and day out.

He has proven that his style of play is capable of producing an upset here and there, but he has also proven that his style of play can take a fine basketball team and turn it into dogshit for 85% of a season.

He has also shown a knack for taking games that we thoroughly dominate for thirty five minutes and turning them into losses.... think Maryland in the ACC tourney, DUke in the ACC championship, Vandy in the NCAA tourney, etc


That Wisconsin game last year says it all in my opinion. They couldnt have played any worse and they still beat the fuck out of us.

10/15/2005 12:42:41 PM

Quote :

"3) Herb is all about playing in daytight compartments, chopping wood, quoting Buddha, it's a marathon not a sprint, ad nauseum. "

whats wrong with taking it a day at a time? yeah, we should take a lesson from football monkey and yack about "never having another losing season" and "national championships" over and over again.

you sound like one of those packpride morons that gets on herb for "not intimidating" and basically not having chuck's personality.

let me guess: in an ideal situation this year, chuck would stay and herb would go b/c you love chucks personality and you think herb is boring?

HERB SUCKS. HE TOOK A TEAM PLAGUED WITH INJURIES AND BAD PLAY EARLY ON AND TURNED THEM AROUND AND TOOK THEM TO THE SWEET 16. WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON THE FIRST 5 YEARS WHEN HE SUCKED JUST AS MUCH AS LAST YEAR! WHY DOESNT HE YELL AT THE REFS MORE. I WISH HED THREATEN ROY AND GIVE FUNNY SOUNDBITES ABOUT JELLO AND NOT FAGS LIKE BUDDHA.

go back to packpride, please

last season, after one of those home losses (forget which one), i wanted herb gone too. but guess what? he tured it around, got the team playing well, and we had a great end to the season. thats what im focusing on right now. im excited to see if we can capitalize on that.

[Edited on October 15, 2005 at 2:04 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2005 2:01:31 PM

Just wait til basketball season and we will see who is right, Herb will do quite well this year.

10/15/2005 2:16:11 PM

PinkandBlack, have you read anything that I have written?

I don't give a shit about Herb's personality. He could wear a lime green tutu if it meant that State won for all I care. It's about results, dumbass. Herb has a losing record against the rest of the ACC, a .250 winning percentage against Carolina, no ACC titles, you can forget about any kind of deep run into the NCAAs. And considering that we are a basketball school who put the fucking ACC on the map, 4 NCAA appearances in 9 years, 1 appearance in the Sweet 16, and no ACC titles at a school that has the 3rd most in the ACC is not what I would call successful. Scraping by is more like it.

And thank you, rallydurham, for being a voice of reason.

[Edited on October 15, 2005 at 3:22 PM. Reason : more]

10/15/2005 3:19:22 PM

the first 5 years or herb's time at state are included in your stats. why does that have anything to do with right now?

his first 5 years have about as much relevance right now as the gator bowl win in '02.

and when you bring up the "buddha" crap, it makes it sound like youre critiquing his personality.

i hope you never go into business or statistics or anything like that, you obviously cant interpret statistics and see improvement.

10/15/2005 3:37:51 PM

you guys need to be able to tell the difference between what herb is doing, and what paul hewitt, skip prosser, gary williams, etc are doing.

in ACC basketball, the 2 big names are Duke and UNC. over the last decade or two, which is all that's relevant when talking about the current situation, duke and carolina have consistantly been at the top. every few years you'll have another team come in and be really good for a year, and then drop back to nothing. (see GT two years ago, wake last year, maryland in 2002, etc)

these coaches will come in and have one great year and then several mediocre years.

sendek is doing something entirely different. he is improving our basketball program slowly and steadily. if you think the team hasn't improved each year for the last 4 years he's been here, you're an idiot. and he made the team better in the first 5 he was here too, but it was the switch to the princeton offense that really started getting us better results.

this kind of progress has more longevity than one fleeting season of success. nc state doesn't have the "name brand" like duke and carolina, where the best athletes from all over the country all want to play, so herb can't come in here and round up a national championship team in a few years. instead, he's building us a real program, something we haven't really had at nc state for over 30 years. the 83' run was a cinderella story.

that doesn't happen overnight, but if you're patient, it can happen over time. we're at that point now, where we will continue to be competive year in and year out. we will make the NCAA and have a legitimate shot to win games in it, which is all it takes to win the thing. if the next 4 years progress like the last 4 have, nc state will have made itself a home in the top 3 teams of the acc with duke and carolina, and will have a chance to finish on top of the ACC every year.

10/15/2005 3:58:34 PM

Statistics and improvement? Being a constant bubble team that loses to shit schools on a regular basis is not my idea of improvement. Talk about a diminishing return on investment...PinkandBlack, don't give me a feces sandwich and tell me it's prime rib.

ncWOLFsu, I admire your Wait Til Next Year optimism, maybe Herb can win without Hodge. Like I said, there shouldn't be any excuses given your scenario of slowly building talent.

10/15/2005 4:09:58 PM

we seem to be stockpiling talent for no apparent reason


its not like we actually use it in our crap offense.

besides Larry Hunter isnt here anymore to run it so i think that thing is about to be even more abysmal than it was before...


how do you take last years roster and post THOSE results.... give me a break

The ACC tournament should be for improving our seed, not a means to squeeze into the field of 65 every year

10/15/2005 4:13:23 PM

herb has nothing to do with a bullshit flagrent foul vs vandy, jj going nuts at the end of the acc.

its probobly about time for herb to be fired just because we show no signs of being a serious contender under him. hes a good caoch. much different from chuck amato

chuck amato is a joke. it wasnt just phillip rivers we had back then. the whole team was good. the defense was amazing the wrs were good. all these great players

burnette, holt, maddux, thomas, reid, rivers, jericho, robinson, peterson many many more i cant think of

those were all ocains players anyway and we had one of the best teams in the nation 02. he may of limited us to a gator bowl if anything. chuck amato and his players have no discipline and have yet to win on their own. time for a new coach. after 3 espn national games of penalties ncstate is the laughingstock of college football. not to mention losing to unc...again. winless against rivals 0/4 winless against top 20 0/alot

[Edited on October 15, 2005 at 4:26 PM. Reason : g]

10/15/2005 4:25:45 PM

Quote :

"Statistics and improvement? Being a constant bubble team that loses to shit schools on a regular basis is not my idea of improvement. Talk about a diminishing return on investment...PinkandBlack, don't give me a feces sandwich and tell me it's prime rib. "

we went from NIT
to first round/second round ncaa
to sweet 16

yeah, youre right, we suck

10/15/2005 4:29:01 PM

hahaha, we must have some of the dumbest fans in the nation!

i swear, i think i might want us to lose alot this year so we can just get rid of herbfag. amato, i mean, i hope he turns it around. herb on the other hand is an embarassment to the memory of Jimmy V.

10/15/2005 4:37:55 PM

Yep, it took a total of 9 years. Again, your reading comprehension is about what I would expect from a leftist. Nobody said we suck, just that Herb will never win anything of consequence at NC State. He hasn't shown me anything to prove me wrong.

10/15/2005 4:40:19 PM

^youre stereotyping of people on the left and your inability to see the other side to this (not to mention youre hanging on to an archaic argument about herb) is about what i would expect from someone who has a cartoon in his gallery depicting iraq with WMDs.

10/15/2005 4:45:36 PM