have to drive 2 hours east.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/11/08/evolution.debate.ap/index.html

11/8/2005 7:47:57 PM

What's the matter with those people?

11/8/2005 7:52:42 PM

Holy shit that is some fucked-up-edness. The pendulum has swung way the fuck over.

Teach creation and whatever else in a philosphy class all you want. The shit ain't science.

11/8/2005 7:55:10 PM

It is when you redefine science.

11/8/2005 7:57:54 PM

Quote :

"Supporters of the standards said they will promote academic freedom. "It gets rid of a lot of dogma that's being taught in the classroom today," said board member John Bacon, an Olathe Republican."

AND REPLACES IT WITH SHINIER NEW DOGMA!!!

11/8/2005 8:08:09 PM

Canada is looking better and better.

11/8/2005 8:15:56 PM

IN WITH THE OLD

11/8/2005 8:18:46 PM

Quote :

"In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena."

BAD BAD BAD

Stupid ass motherfuckers.

11/8/2005 8:31:45 PM

people are so retarded...why does it have to be one or the other? i don't care if you believe in jesus christ, buddha, confuscious, or absolutely nothing...

...but if people could remove the 2x4 from their rear ends, open their minds a bit, they would realize that "intelligent design" and evolution can be (and in my opinion, are) the exact same thing...but then again, i'm neither baptist or catholic, so i can have these views and not burn in hell

11/8/2005 8:53:47 PM

Catholics can accept it and not burn in hell.

11/8/2005 8:57:30 PM

Quote :

"In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena."

america is no longer the greatest country on earth.

11/8/2005 9:07:29 PM

Quote :

"IN WITH THE OLD"

hahaha

as for kansas, fuck kansas, bout time for a few more tornados, eh?

11/8/2005 9:09:07 PM

they should make this into a movie like "Footloose" except instead of dancing, Kevin Bacon tries to teach evolution.

11/8/2005 9:13:29 PM

Quote :

"You can't make this stuff up folks"

11/8/2005 9:18:42 PM

Quote :

"Kansas school board redefines science New standards question accuracy of evolutionary theory Tuesday, November 8, 2005; Posted: 8:10 p.m. EST (01:10 GMT) TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- At the risk of re-igniting the same heated nationwide debate it sparked six years ago, the Kansas Board of Education approved new public school science standards Tuesday that cast doubt on the theory of evolution. The 6-4 vote was a victory for "intelligent design" advocates who helped draft the standards. Intelligent design holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power. Critics of the language charged that it was an attempt to inject God and creationism into public schools in violation of the separation of church and state. All six of those who voted for the standards were Republicans. Two Republicans and two Democrats voted against them. "This is a sad day. We're becoming a laughingstock of not only the nation, but of the world, and I hate that," said board member Janet Waugh, a Kansas City Democrat. Supporters of the standards said they will promote academic freedom. "It gets rid of a lot of dogma that's being taught in the classroom today," said board member John Bacon, an Olathe Republican. The standards state that high school students must understand major evolutionary concepts. But they also declare that some concepts have been challenged in recent years by fossil evidence and molecular biology. The challenged concepts cited include the basic Darwinian theory that all life had a common origin and the theory that natural chemical processes created the building blocks of life. In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena. The standards will be used to develop student tests measuring how well schools teach science. Decisions about what is taught in classrooms will remain with 300 local school boards, but some educators fear pressure will increase in some communities to teach less about evolution or more about intelligent design. (Read how Kansas came to this point) The vote marked the third time in six years that the Kansas board has rewritten standards with evolution as the central issue. In 1999, the board eliminated most references to evolution, a move Harvard paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould said was akin to teaching "American history without Lincoln." Two years later, after voters replaced three members, the board reverted to evolution-friendly standards. Elections in 2002 and 2004 changed the board's composition again, making it more conservative. Many scientists and other critics contend creationists repackaged old ideas in scientific-sounding language to get around a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1987 that banned teaching the biblical story of creation in public schools. The Kansas board's action is part of a national debate. In Pennsylvania, a judge is expected to rule soon in a lawsuit against the Dover school board's policy of requiring high school students to learn about intelligent design in biology class. (Read about the Dover debate) In August, President Bush endorsed teaching intelligent design alongside evolution."

Posting the article helps man. This is SB protocol...

11/8/2005 9:33:08 PM

morons

11/8/2005 10:21:25 PM

my fucking god

wtf

11/8/2005 10:23:22 PM

Quote :

"they should make this into a movie like "Footloose" except instead of dancing, Kevin Bacon tries to teach evolution."

Inherit the Wind

11/8/2005 10:39:54 PM

State v. John Scopes ("The Monkey Trial")

Now the shoe is on the other foot...kinda.

11/8/2005 10:42:27 PM

Quote :

"people are so retarded...why does it have to be one or the other?"

pretty simple. you've got a group of people trying to force what is the "right thing" on people. and I aint talking about the creationists...

11/8/2005 10:52:41 PM

yeah, how dare we let scientists determine what science is!

11/8/2005 11:13:11 PM

Again, an example of the danger of gov't dominance on education.

Politicians decide that science is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena? So we can now hire John Edwards and Kreskin to teach biology?

11/8/2005 11:25:22 PM

I am a proponent of evolution, but not much of the garbage that I have been fed in school. Most researchers and those that write our textbooks are less concerned with the truth and more with getting published and securing tenure. Anyone challeging the foot-hold that "modern science" has on our society faces retribution not unlike that of the catholic church of old...except possibly crucifixtion. The religion of science has replaced the religion of a montheistic creator. I consider myself a scientist, but I am aware of the manipulation and closed minds of many who consider themselves "searchers of fact".

11/8/2005 11:27:27 PM

some people want to go back in time. hell, maybe slavery should be implemented again!

11/9/2005 12:05:31 AM

Quote :

"I am a proponent of evolution, but not much of the garbage that I have been fed in school. Most researchers and those that write our textbooks are less concerned with the truth and more with getting published and securing tenure. Anyone challeging the foot-hold that "modern science" has on our society faces retribution not unlike that of the catholic church of old...except possibly crucifixtion. The religion of science has replaced the religion of a montheistic creator. I consider myself a scientist, but I am aware of the manipulation and closed minds of many who consider themselves "searchers of fact"."

Please tell me your shitting me.

11/9/2005 12:39:15 AM

Even if he won't, I will. A third of the people in this country believe in the literal interpretation of the fucking bible.

11/9/2005 1:09:48 AM

1) It's just fucking Kansas. Calm down. Some states are more backwards. Pryderi's "going to Canada" line, even if it's a joke, is stupid; would you rather the Federal government dictate curricula all-around? Until it happens in your state, it's not too much your fucking business. Some, but not too much.

2) This could possibly have been avoided if the pro-evolution camp were less rigid and more compromising, even to the point of saying, "This is a theory," instead of, "This is a fact." We've had the discussion in a couple of threads and there's no need to go through it again; the point is, I think if you guys had a little more bend in you, Kansas would still be teaching things that made sense and everyone would be better off.

3) This too will pass, all the more easily if you all and everyone like you keeps their shit together and refrains from referring to Kansas as a stone-age collection of inbred bumpkins. Believe it or not, there are a great many people in the world who find pretentious intellectuals to be more than a little grating, and who will gladly oppose them just for the sake of doing so. It is possible to oppose this move without being a prick, and while that sometimes isn't necessary, I assure you this time it is.

11/9/2005 1:17:31 AM

Bah who cares. The United States' leadership has ruined her army, divided her citizens into distinct ideological camps, started an all out war on science, and just now is starting to crumble in on itself.

It really makes no difference in the context of humanity. Science as a whole will march on logically past stupid distractions like this. Who really cares if the US is leading it or not?

11/9/2005 2:48:11 AM

^^Points 1 and 3 don't go together very well, although I would agree to an extent with both.

Point 2 doesn't work because it was creationists (or "intelligent designers") who made this such a big issue. The scientific community has nothing to apologize for when teaching evolution as fact. Just because it conflicts with the teachings of christianity doesn't mean that they should be ubar-sensitive about offending some backwards hicks.

11/9/2005 3:05:11 AM

So what's the new definition of science?

11/9/2005 6:52:24 AM

Same as it always was, whatever the teacher tells you.

11/9/2005 9:19:18 AM

THY WILL BE DONE, LORD!

11/9/2005 9:21:15 AM

11/9/2005 10:24:04 AM

YES!

11/9/2005 11:01:22 AM

Quote :

"Point 2 doesn't work because it was creationists (or "intelligent designers") who made this such a big issue."

Point 2 works just fine. Creationists used to run the show, and then in a very short period you guys took over and made it a point to humiliate the evolutionists at every turn. Hell, that shit was going on in the Scopes trial. Then you made it a point to teach that evolution is fact, the only truth, and that by extension the religious beliefs of many must be wrong, and you did it in public schools. So what a surprise, the religious got bitter and spent years and years consolidating power to the point where now the Christian Right has cost you boys two elections.

To say, "This is a theory, it's the best scientific explanation for how life developed on Earth," that would have killed you? That would have been a sacrifice of all your principles? Goddamn, you people have no bend in you, and you're paying for it.

11/9/2005 1:09:28 PM

Yea

And in ten or twenty years the situation will be reversed.

However, each time the nation as a whole becomes more progressive.

So really, the right will always be fighting a losing battle.

11/9/2005 1:15:42 PM

That's a risky view. They may want to go out with a bang.

11/9/2005 1:17:39 PM

What schools did you people go to? I went to public school and every science class that I took that discussed evolution presented it as theory.

Furthermore, there is absolutely no place in a SCIENCE class for religious doctrin, such as the intelligent design theory. I have no problem with people being enlightened on the many different theories of how the world came into being, but it doesn't belong in a science class. The theory of evolution does however, because it was developed through the scientific process. If people would like to try and develop the intelligent design theory using the scientific process, and can find enough SCIENTIFIC proof to support it, then I believe that it should be allowed to be taught in a science classroom. Until then, leave the science curriculum alone and allow it to do what it is meant to do: teach kids about science.

[Edited on November 9, 2005 at 1:20 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2005 1:19:24 PM

Quote :

"I have no problem with people being enlightened on the many different theories of how the world came into being, but it doesn't belong in a science class. The theory of evolution does however, because it was developed through the scientific process. If people would like to try and develop the intelligent design theory using the scientific process, and can find enough SCIENTIFIC proof to support it, then I believe that it should be allowed to be taught in a science classroom. Until then, leave the science curriculum alone and allow it to do what it is meant to do: teach kids about science."

well said.

1. intellegent design or creationism cant be disproved. which is why its philosophy/religion, and not science.


2. evolution doesnt mean there was no creator that did not intend for evolution to happen. evolution does not posit that things are all here by chance. if you believe it does, youve been listening to your preachers definition of evolution, and not your biologist's; evolution states that speciation occured the variation and selection. atheism, is a sepreate issue.

[Edited on November 9, 2005 at 1:30 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2005 1:29:50 PM

CLAP CLAP CLAP

Innovative posts there, guys.

I don't see anyone in here singing the praises of intelligent design.

^^As to your question I went to a public school in North Carolina, and in two separate biology classes was instructed that evolution was a fact.

[Edited on November 9, 2005 at 1:31 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2005 1:30:59 PM

I do not think it belongs in a science classroom and I do not interpret the bible literally...hell I don't even take it seriously. I must have been misunderstood.

11/9/2005 1:35:12 PM

11/10/2005 1:02:17 PM

i hope it turns out that the intelligent designer is vishnu

vishnu or a ford employee

maybe it was the same guy who designed that new GT

thats a pretty sweet ride, clearly that guy is pretty intelligent

11/10/2005 1:07:24 PM

GRAVITY IS JUST A THEORY.

11/10/2005 1:21:19 PM

Quote :

"I am a proponent of evolution, but not much of the garbage that I have been fed in school. Most researchers and those that write our textbooks are less concerned with the truth and more with getting published and securing tenure. Anyone challeging the foot-hold that "modern science" has on our society faces retribution not unlike that of the catholic church of old...except possibly crucifixtion. The religion of science has replaced the religion of a montheistic creator. I consider myself a scientist, but I am aware of the manipulation and closed minds of many who consider themselves "searchers of fact"."

This sounds like any number of crackpots who have emailed me their "revolutionary" contributions to physics.

11/10/2005 3:03:58 PM

If you call them crack pots because you took the time to investigate their info. and discovered the physics to be unsound then crack pot it is. However, I was refering to the scientist establishment which doesn't even give the "crack pot" the benefit of the doubt by actually researching the discoveries because it might damage a well established ego.

11/10/2005 4:34:24 PM

Quote :

"They may want to go out with a bang."

Shit, they already are.

11/10/2005 4:37:34 PM

Quote :

"If you call them crack pots because you took the time to investigate their info. and discovered the physics to be unsound then crack pot it is. However, I was refering to the scientist establishment which doesn't even give the "crack pot" the benefit of the doubt by actually researching the discoveries because it might damage a well established ego."

Well the day you figure out a quantitive way to research God make sure to get published.

11/10/2005 5:09:01 PM

noodly appendage

11/10/2005 5:17:42 PM

The theory of gravity is the thing we've got that best scientifically explains how certain things in the universe works, just like evolution is the thing that best scientifically explains how life came to be what it is. Hell, all you have to do is say, at the beginning of the school year, "The things we will go over in class are the best scientific explanations for how the universe works that we have." Then you can go to town.

Quote :

"Shit, they already are."

Not yet they haven't. Maybe they won't ever. I hope not.

11/10/2005 6:08:27 PM