Quote :

"It is the VETERAN, not the preacher, who has given us freedom of religion. It is the VETERAN, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the VETERAN, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the VETERAN, not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom to assemble. It is the VETERAN, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. It is the VETERAN, not the politician, Who has given us the right to vote. "

Quote :

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf --- George Orwell"

God Bless Our Veterans!

11/10/2005 11:56:32 PM

Quote :

"It is the VETERAN, not the and the... "

11/11/2005 12:04:14 AM

leave it up to a liberal to ruin this thread

here here, we need to keep this one at the top!

11/11/2005 12:13:09 AM

leave it up to THABIGL to fuck up a commonplace phrase

11/11/2005 12:14:26 AM

how did i ruin anything?

11/11/2005 12:21:24 AM

Thank you, veterans.

You deserve the very best in health care, education and pay.

11/11/2005 12:33:50 AM

Quote :

"Thank you, veterans. You deserve the very best in health care, education and pay."

Well said! But how to pay for it? We'll cross that bridge to no-where when we come to it.

11/11/2005 12:48:29 AM

11/11/2005 9:22:53 AM

Quote :

"how did i ruin anything?"

it's "HEAR HEAR"

11/11/2005 9:50:13 AM

GOD i wish we lived in a military dictatorship

THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME

...

that being said, gg for the vets

11/11/2005 9:52:41 AM

Quote :

"leave it up to a liberal to ruin this thread"

Hey asshat, guess what? I'm a god damn vet, and I supported Kerry, think Bush is a jackass, support abortion, and want to raise taxes on big business (to name a few things). FUCK YOU for thinking that a liberals are trying to ruin shit for vets. I was proud to serve my country and I followed and supported my CinC for the decade I was in uniform, but I'll never come close to being conservative.

11/11/2005 11:05:35 AM

THE BIG GIRL STRIKES AGAIN

11/11/2005 11:07:24 AM

HAHAHAHA PWNT

11/11/2005 11:10:30 AM

In 1973, in General Alexander Haig's presence, then National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger, referred pointedly to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy.

11/11/2005 12:02:39 PM

^
Sorry,I meant to post this in the Screwing Our Troops thread. God bless our veterans!

11/11/2005 12:06:34 PM

^how about you just edit out that reply instead!

BLESS OUR VETS.

11/11/2005 12:19:06 PM

Our soldiers have faught to protect all our liberties, for which they deserve our respect and admiration.

But it's not like they were the activists/policy makers who gained us these liberties.


I mean, someone argue against this fact, please. Otherwise accept that the original post was silly. It's very possible to honor our heroes without having to heap on overly sappy faux praise.

11/11/2005 12:37:36 PM

oh just let it go. everyone knows that what the quote means is that without the sacrifices of our veterans we could very well have lost all those freedoms.

11/11/2005 12:43:40 PM

I would not say it is the Vet who has given us the rights in the original post, but it is the vet who has kept those secure. Of course, if you want to split hairs, then I guess guys like George Washington were vets when they wrote the constitution and bill of rights. However, I wouldn't take anything away from the preachers, reporters, etc, because they support these same rights by giving us places to worship, reports to keep the public informed, etc. It's a balance between the civilians and military (and separation of military power from civilian government) that has kept us going strong for so long.

Again, I'm proud to be a vet. I wore my academy ring to work today to remind myself of what I did and many more before me did. But I do get a little queasy when people start spouting off about vets a few days of the year and use us as an excuse for other things (a la bush today going off about people questioning the war as undercutting troops).

11/11/2005 4:31:54 PM

Granted my praise may be a bit sappy but I assure you it is not "faux".

11/11/2005 10:36:58 PM

Yeah, folks, I think everyone knows what was meant by the original post, just like I think most of you are pricks who will sing the "I love teh tr00ps!" song just to have a catchier tune to dance the "I hate t3h r1ght!" dance to.

That kind of makes sense.

Quote :

"But it's not like they were the activists/policy makers who gained us these liberties."

Actually, pretty much all of those things were attained through force of arms by veterans. I mean, they're dead veterans now by a long shot, but they were veterans still.

If I say, "Look, a box of biscuits!" I have not given you a biscuit. If I actually take the box and share the biscuits with you, then I've given you one. Just like when that bitch-made punk Jefferson was saying we should be able to vote, he didn't actually get you the right to vote. People with balls that actually shot limeys gave you that right to vote. And xince then, new vets have shot everyone who wanted to take those original gifts away from you, plus a few others for good measure.

I know it makes you all feel really dirty to know that the things you love were paid for in slaughter dollars, but what can I say? Props to EarthDogg.

[Edited on November 11, 2005 at 11:01 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2005 11:00:24 PM

ok this is just weird

11/11/2005 11:24:17 PM

Hahahaha, yes it is.

My kiss-assery knows no bounds, not even the internet.

11/11/2005 11:26:07 PM

it wont get you that raise though

11/11/2005 11:27:57 PM

Raise? Ha! I'll settle for not getting fired.

Especially after I call the bossman's political hero a "bitch-made punk."

11/11/2005 11:30:06 PM

hes a wimp
i dont think hed do much but shuffle his feet

aha

11/11/2005 11:30:52 PM

You can afford to say that, you have demonstrated yourself to be at least marignally useful and even semi-competent.

I make it a point not to insult the guy that can shuffle his feet right over to me with a little pink sheet of paper that says "kkthx bye"

11/11/2005 11:32:22 PM

he usually only gives out the pink slips if the entire place is complaining of retardedness and lack of brain

so if you do everything ok and learn the first time we wont kill you
its run by a bunch of girls, we're ruthless

but yeah, as long as you sell
and make him out to be your best pal, things will look peachy keen

11/11/2005 11:35:12 PM

Quote :

"the entire place is complaining of retardedness and lack of brain"

Quote :

"but yeah, as long as you sell"

These would appear to be the parts I have trouble with.

I hope overdone self-deprecation is common enough in Wisconsin that it's obvious here.

I also hope that referring to the whole situation on TWW is acceptable, because if it isn't I'm going out of my way to point out that you started it.

[Edited on November 11, 2005 at 11:38 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2005 11:37:32 PM

i had trouble selling too
something about being manipulatively persuasive
but i sorta miss the sales floor as well

anyways, since youre new you are cut some slack
i wouldnt sweat it, no one is talking about you negatively right now
just be motivated enough to work on it
and motivation will reward you with green

11/11/2005 11:39:01 PM

Yeah, yeah, I know. I worry about things. It's what I do. That, and drink. But never at work or right before it.

Funny thing is, my best sales days correspond alarmingly well with the days after which I got the most plowed. Should I not have mentioned that just then?

j/k

I swear

[Edited on November 11, 2005 at 11:42 PM. Reason : I love how this thread has become a private conversation, way to honor our vets!]

11/11/2005 11:41:45 PM

aha he doesnt care as lng as it doesnt have a negative impact on his beloved store


yeah its a little weird knowing your screen name but hardly saying a word at work
im like caught in fightclub movie

the first rule about tdub is....



bossman is sure to talk about this thread come monday

11/11/2005 11:44:51 PM

Fuck Monday, I'll hear a reference to it tomorrow, in all likelihood.

I liked it the other day when one of the other kennel guys was like, "So...I hear you're the GrumpyGOP, then."

But I liked it even more when at my interview the bossman said, after I was basically in, "I notice you're on the Wolfweb. That's fine with me if it's fine with you."

11/11/2005 11:47:50 PM

was it mike? hes on here too, as erfdawg ahaha

but uh, yeah i just dont really talk about it unless its brought up or something way cool happened, which is rare

i just feel too nerdy talking about shit like that

11/11/2005 11:50:57 PM

Probably it was.

OK, I'm going to declare the hijacking of this thread over, and also say, "Happy Veterans Day!...all seven minutes of it left."

11/11/2005 11:54:32 PM

Quote :

"without the sacrifices of our veterans we could lost all those freedoms."

When and how might we have lost them?

11/12/2005 3:18:04 AM

Die Deutsch sind kommen

....... mien deutsch ist kaputt.




[Edited on November 12, 2005 at 1:10 PM. Reason : !!!!!!!]

11/12/2005 1:08:49 PM

i'm all for celebrating veterans

but that stupid ass poem makes me sad.

11/12/2005 2:45:57 PM

kinda like when i read one of those far left shittyass unfunny comics. its ok, sadness abounds.

Quote :

"new vets have shot everyone who wanted to take those original gifts away from you, plus a few others for good measure."

gg grumpy

11/12/2005 3:20:17 PM

^^^do you seriously believe that either the Germans or Japanese were actually capable of invasion/occupation?

[Edited on November 12, 2005 at 3:33 PM. Reason : a]

11/12/2005 3:23:45 PM

Thanks to the Vets!

_ET3
United States Navy

11/12/2005 5:19:06 PM

^^ how did u get that outa my post?

11/13/2005 12:59:18 PM

Quote :

"do you seriously believe that either the Germans or Japanese were actually capable of invasion/occupation?"

1) Well, if we didn't have the men who are now veterans, yes, I think they could have.
2) You don't have to occupy the whole bloody country to take away liberties from its citizens.
3) Hell, you don't have to occupy any of the country to do that.

11/13/2005 4:16:35 PM

All the freedoms noted in the original post have become more restricted recently. Where are the veterans when we need them?

11/13/2005 4:42:37 PM

^
Hmmm, gotta point there...

11/13/2005 10:21:30 PM

Quote :

"Where are the veterans when we need them?"

They're all in Iraq.

11/13/2005 11:06:41 PM

more restricted? give me a break.

11/13/2005 11:51:59 PM

) Hell, you don't have to occupy any of the country to do that.

Care to explain how? How can any enemy take away liberties from a people without occupying?

Well, if we didn't have the men who are now veterans, yes, I think they could have.

Note: I never denied this. I questioned the statement "Without the sacrifices of our veterans, we could have lost all those freedoms."

Your quote, and the one I responded to are quite different. You said, essentially, we need veterans to defend the nation and our liberties. The other says that the sacrifices of our veterans (presumably including some or all of the wars we've fought in the last 100 years) have somehow acted to preserve those liberties. Two totally different statements.

The first is true; the second is bogus. In the 20th century, our liberties were never in jeopardy due to a foreign threat - but they have been attacked by the very government which directs our military.

So no, I won't thank a veteran for fighting to preserve our freedom. He didn't. This is not to say military service is dishonorable in any way, just don't paint it as something it's not.

11/14/2005 7:53:40 PM

Quote :

"How can any enemy take away liberties from a people without occupying?"

1) The second they invade fucking Guam, the rights of Americans are restricted. And they did, mind you.
2) There are certain consequences inherent to being the only nonfascist sympathizer country on the planet (and we certainly could have been). Some of those consequences entail a restriction of liberty. From the curtailments that would have been necessary to maintain our independence to the restrictions on travel necessary to the fact that our enemies could have waged an indefinite war on us without occupying, this is obvious to most.

Quote :

"You said, essentially, we need veterans to defend the nation and our liberties. The other says that the sacrifices of our veterans (presumably including some or all of the wars we've fought in the last 100 years) have somehow acted to preserve those liberties."

But the fact remains that without our veterans our enemies could have rolled over us, yes? Even you admit that. Ergo, had we not had men and women and uniform, we could all very possibly be saying our "Heil, Hitlers" at the start of every class. Since we had those veterans, we can feel safe in saying that the enemy never would have taken us over, but had we not had them the world could be a very different place.

Meaning that at least our WWII vets should be thanked for preserving our freedom. Even if nothing they did saved us, their very existence did, by your own admission.

Quote :

"In the 20th century, our liberties were never in jeopardy due to a foreign threat"

Positively bogus, to use your term. The only reason our liberties weren't in jeopard was that we had a military comprised of what are now veterans.

11/14/2005 8:07:20 PM

The original poster is unfamiliar with the concepts of war and peace -- one feeds off the other, ad infinitum. Soldiers fight wars. Generals lead soldiers. Presidents command generals and select wars. Civilians elect Presidents. And so on.

We have freedom because we, collectively, wish to have it. A military is a nation's leverage against the world; it is our political will that moves it.

We should honor our veterans not because they are singularly responsible for our freedoms -- such a notion is idiotic; many nations have many veterans but few freedoms -- but because they have the hardest job in the world. People doing the hardest job in the world deserve appreciation.

Where most of us expect to live to 70+, that is a luxury to a 20-year old man facing bullets. Such men are cut down not only in service of their country, but in the primes of their lives.

The question of politics will always be complex, but the question of veterans is not -- they've done the unthinkable for us. I don't think honoring that requires any qualification.

11/15/2005 12:27:37 AM