andruw was definitely the most valuable player but i guess pujols has the statistical edge

comments, predictions, insults, etc. are welcome

11/15/2005 6:59:08 AM

Andruw Jones should win. without him, the braves dont sniff the playoffs.

11/15/2005 7:40:15 AM

here is my comment:

the braves suck

11/15/2005 8:17:34 AM

there are like 40 threads about this, but Jones

11/15/2005 8:18:03 AM

maybe if jones actually pretended he gave a fuck when he played

11/15/2005 8:20:02 AM

If he won the MVP hold a new record.... lowest batting average ever for an MVP award winner

11/15/2005 8:36:07 AM

there's one thread and it was started by fagyver so it doesn't count

11/15/2005 10:01:17 AM

Andruw, definately Most Valuable. I love Pujols but i think it should be another second place year.

11/15/2005 10:06:32 AM

when do they announce this?

11/15/2005 12:20:42 PM

Pujols will win, Andruw should win. Its MVP not MOP (outstanding)

11/15/2005 12:37:04 PM

I'm not going to search for the stats to prove my point cause I havent looked since early september, but Pujols should win this hands down. His offensive stats are better, and I dont care if Jones is flashy in center field. Pujols made tons of great plays at first base, where its harder to make the highlight reel. If they voted after the season, that homer in game 4 of the Houston series should just be the icing on the cake...too bad the cards didnt have anyone else step up in the post season.

11/15/2005 12:37:38 PM

^post season doesn't count

and there's no way anyone can argue that andruw wasn't the most VALUABLE player to his team this year

both lee and pujols (and maybe cabrrera) had better stats, but the cubs sucked and the cards were a playoff team even without albert

jones carried the braves from may until september

i'm not just being a homer here

11/15/2005 12:50:10 PM

I have issues with a MVP barely hitting .260 as I would imagine SOME voters would..

I would think Jones probably wins it still though but I could understand the Pujols argument. He was the better all around hitter this year.

11/15/2005 12:51:50 PM

Sure Jones makes flashy plays but those arent the ones baseball people talk about. Its the plays that he coasts into when other center fielders would have to make flashy plays. He saves at least a run every game for the Braves. He is arguably the best defensive outfielder ever. Pujols is a good defensive first basemen but you will never hear him called one of the best ever as a defender.

11/15/2005 12:55:14 PM

woah buddy

woah

11/15/2005 12:57:15 PM

That is my argument as well. People always laught at me but I still maintain Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, and Torii Hunter are all superior CFers to Jim Edmonds. Jim makes all the great plays but it's because his range is limited compared to the others. Plays that others make look routine he, out of necessity, does some diving towards the wall circus catch. That doesn't make him a better defensive player..

[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 12:58 PM. Reason : asf]

11/15/2005 12:57:47 PM

jim edmonds is a pretty good centerfielder

and an amazing diver

11/15/2005 12:58:45 PM

If they voted based on numbers alone, I might have to go with Lee. But I say Pujols wins it.



[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 1:37 PM. Reason : -]

11/15/2005 1:36:57 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2224756

Quote :

"Each of the past four seasons, Albert Pujols has taken a backseat to Barry Bonds in the NL MVP voting. Not this year. Albert Pujols was named NL MVP for the first time in his brilliant young career Tuesday, beating out the Braves' Andruw Jones and the Cubs' Derrek Lee for the award. The St. Louis Cardinals first baseman received 18 first-place votes and 14 seconds for 378 points in balloting by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Jones, the Atlanta Braves center fielder, got 13 first-place votes, 17 seconds and two thirds for 351 points. The 25-year-old Pujols ranked in the top three in the NL in homers (41), RBI (117) and batting average (.330) and led the majors in runs (129) for the third season in a row. The Cardinals had to deal with injuries to third baseman Scott Rolen and corner outfielders Larry Walker and Reggie Sanders, but still got the usual dominant play from their slugging first baseman to finish with the majors' best record. Pujols has finished in the top four in MVP voting by the Baseball Writers Association of America in each of the last four campaigns, when the award went to Bonds. Bonds is not a candidate for his fifth straight award after missing virtually the entire season with a knee injury."

11/15/2005 2:12:35 PM

Bitching and moaning starts after this line

___________________________________

11/15/2005 2:17:20 PM

He deserves the award no matter what any of you Braves fans think. 263 batting average, give me a fucking break.

11/15/2005 2:30:46 PM

Jones doesnt bring anything to the clubhouse, he is a clown, Pujols gets his boys ready every day no matter what that is what an MVP does

11/15/2005 2:38:04 PM

What's with Andruw and that half-smile all the time? And why doesn't he catch the ball over his head... he wouldn't start on my little league team unless he has both hands over his head when catching a pop fly

11/15/2005 2:40:13 PM

this makes me VERY happy

gg Albert

11/15/2005 2:49:21 PM

Quote :

"Jones doesnt bring anything to the clubhouse, he is a clown, Pujols gets his boys ready every day no matter what that is what an MVP does"

So you've been in both clubhouses? Amazing.

11/15/2005 2:51:13 PM

^Haha, yeah beat me to it. Must be a fucking celebrity to have been in both. Gotta love that insider information.

11/15/2005 3:24:52 PM

Quote :

"And why doesn't he catch the ball over his head... he wouldn't start on my little league team unless he has both hands over his head when catching a pop fly"

Then you, sir, are an indiot. Who cares where he catches the ball. He catches the damn thing and does it better than any other centerfielder.

11/15/2005 3:26:23 PM

Pujols is the reason Yadier Molina has turned into a capable hitter and complete catcher now. What has Andruw done for the team besides be cocky in CF?

11/15/2005 3:26:55 PM

^^ Jim Edmonds begs to differ

11/15/2005 3:28:13 PM

How has Pujols turned Molina into a hitter? Any baseball analyst will tell you that Yadier is the most talented of the Molina brothers.

11/15/2005 3:28:49 PM

^Do you even watch baseball? Im not even gonna argue with you because I watch nearly all Cardinals games and Molina started the year 0-29 and still batted .252 this year with Pujols help. All of the baseball announcers talked about it all summer long.

11/15/2005 3:34:12 PM

I dont think thats the issue. Its the fact that Pujols is a TEAM player. He does everything he can to help other guys on the team, he does everything it takes for them to win. You can argue that if you take Jones off the braves team, they dont make the playoffs. I argue that if you take Pujols off the Cardinals, they dont make the playoffs, and probably wouldnt have made them last year. That being said, they are equal in helping their team, and Pujols blows jones out of the water statistically, so now who's your MVP?

[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 3:37 PM. Reason : ]

11/15/2005 3:36:37 PM

last year has nothing to do with this year . . . just saying

11/15/2005 3:39:18 PM

GOD DAMNIT I KNOW LAST YEAR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS YEAR

I'm just saying that you have to consider the fact that Pujols helped his team just as much, using last year as an example.

11/15/2005 3:40:57 PM

Yeah, i feel like Pujols got some votes based on the fact that he could have won at least the last 3 MVP's if it werent for Bonds.

^^^^And do i watch baseball? No, i dont even know what a baseball is.

[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2005 3:42:55 PM

Quote :

"Then you, sir, are an indiot. Who cares where he catches the ball. He catches the damn thing and does it better than any other centerfielder."

I know Im prolly gonna start an argument with all the Braves homers on here, but Jim Edmonds is just as good the center fielder if not better than Jones.

Quote :

"People always laught at me but I still maintain Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, and Torii Hunter are all superior CFers to Jim Edmonds. Jim makes all the great plays but it's because his range is limited compared to the others. Plays that others make look routine he, out of necessity, does some diving towards the wall circus catch. That doesn't make him a better defensive player.."

He actually had a higher range factor (RF) than Jones this year. 2.53>2.48. Which means he makes more plays per game than Andruw so I guess that blew this argument out. Just because Jimmy is white, doesnt mean he cant run and get to balls as well.

11/15/2005 3:44:33 PM

There is no way that Edmonds is a better defensive center fielder than Jones, and that has nothing to do with race.

11/15/2005 3:46:04 PM

Carlos Beltran had a 2.67. Mike Cameron last year (as a CF) had 2.74. Range Factor is a good stat, but not an end all, be all.

I'm sure I can find over 50% of starting major league center fielders if I looked up this stat that had better RF then Edmonds. I'm not saying he isn't an elite fielder.. merely that Beltran, Jones, and Hunter are every bit his equal. Perception is that Edmonds is head and shoulders above the others; but in this case perception does not equal reality..


[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 3:49 PM. Reason : 2.67 for Carlos not 2.61]

11/15/2005 3:46:35 PM

hop of the braves' nuts, he didn't win, and he shouldn't have won, he looks like a jackass when he barely lifts his glove to make a catch (especially when he drops balls bc of it)

11/15/2005 3:47:04 PM

Quote :

"hop of the braves' nuts, he didn't win, and he shouldn't have won, he looks like a jackass when he barely lifts his glove to make a catch (especially when he drops balls bc of it)"

11/15/2005 3:47:47 PM

Thats like criticizing Rivers for his throwing motion. He looks like a jackass for throwing the ball underhand but i didnt hear yall complaining when he was winning football games.

11/15/2005 3:50:03 PM

Quote :

"Range Factor is a good stat, but not an end all, be all."

Yeah, it's also dependent on the number of opportunities a player receives. Which would be dependent upon pitching and so forth.

11/15/2005 3:50:06 PM

^^worst analogy ive heard in a while....that isn't his technique...that is his fucking attitude thinking he's too good to catch the ball like everyother centerfielder, he's andruw and he can catch it like that bc he's that good, well fuck that, and i have definetly seen him drop balls more than once bc of it

[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 3:52 PM. Reason : typo]

11/15/2005 3:52:32 PM

Quote :

"There is no way that Edmonds is a better defensive center fielder than Jones, and that has nothing to do with race."

He's definately not worse.

11/15/2005 3:55:57 PM

.263

and

Quote :

"He saves at least a run every game for the Braves."

let's not get silly

11/15/2005 3:57:37 PM

It's next to impossible to quantify defensive ability. Gold gloves are purely opinion based while the different numbers all have their deficincies...

No one is saying Edmonds is bad. Just saying his hype is inflated because of the great plays he makes. You'd be lying to yourself if you think that he is faster then the other top centerfielders (Jones -- who gets AMAZING jumps -- Beltran, Hunter, etc, etc) so in turn he has to make more dazzling plays then the others. Just because Torii Hunter or Carlos Beltran, for instance, can track down a ball and make a catch in the gap at the track look routine doesn't mean it wasn't every bit as important/impressive as Edmonds making up for his lack of pure speed by making that same catch acrobatically. See what we're saying?

11/15/2005 4:00:48 PM

I just hope that Barry Bonds doesn't win any more MVPs. His trophy case is full of them.

11/15/2005 4:02:03 PM

Im not saying that Edmonds is any worse. I would take Andruw and his 8 gold gloves and let him play center field for me. Yes he does seem lazy in the way he catches fly balls but his drops from that technique occurred earlier in his career. Bobby Cox got him about it and he hasnt had a problem since.

11/15/2005 4:05:45 PM

^^^good point

[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 4:06 PM. Reason : fgd]

^he hasn't had a problem dropping them, or using that technique? it only takes one in a critical game to cost the whole season, why risk it? oh bc he's the man

[Edited on November 15, 2005 at 4:07 PM. Reason : lkds]

11/15/2005 4:05:46 PM

^Either one. Give me one example of where Andruw's defense cost the Braves a game.

11/15/2005 4:08:54 PM