is anyone else watching this game? Wake does not look all that good early

11/17/2005 7:11:24 PM

channel?

11/17/2005 7:17:24 PM

ESPN.

I think I may have overestimated Florida, though. They don't look that good so far either.

11/17/2005 7:17:45 PM

yeah, they both look kinda bad

they still play no defense and that was an awful foul that williams committed

11/17/2005 7:19:21 PM

Wake's size lets them recover the rebounds from a lot of very shitty shot attempts, though.

And Florida's got some hellacious shot blockers.

11/17/2005 7:23:36 PM

yeah, both of these teams look bad right now though

if wake plays like this we will handle them fairly easily i believe b/c they don't play (much) defense and their offense doesn't have a PG...it doesn't flow

11/17/2005 7:26:43 PM

wake is going to lose this game by 20 points

they can't break a press

11/17/2005 7:33:21 PM

wake hasn't looked good all season so far.

11/17/2005 7:34:46 PM

Nope. If you look back at my thread, I said after their first exhibition game that the press was killing them.

But if UF keeps turning the ball over instead of capitalizing on Wake's mistakes, it'll stay close and give Wake the chance to win it.

11/17/2005 7:35:16 PM

no, but I hadn't seen them on TV

this is pretty bad...they simply do not have anyone that can run an offense

11/17/2005 7:35:41 PM

if they don't improve, which historically prosser's wake teams have not, they will not win 20 games

11/17/2005 7:37:01 PM

You have to keep someone on Gray.

Even if you're running a zone, use a box-and-1 or diamond-and-1 or something, but just don't let him get open...

11/17/2005 7:45:03 PM

you knew it wouldn't take long for dickie to mention Duke

11/17/2005 7:45:59 PM

^^yeah, he is their only outside option

11/17/2005 7:46:26 PM

Why the hell did that guy think it was a bright idea to run right into a group of four Wake players?

Yeah, you're really going to take the ball all the way in like that.

11/17/2005 7:52:46 PM

dickie v just got asked who could contend with duke and bc this year other than wake and he mentions maryland and georgia tech. he fuckin mentions georgia tech over our asses.

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 8:30 PM. Reason : i mean he put us in his top 25]

11/17/2005 8:30:00 PM

ok nevermind he just gave us props

11/17/2005 8:34:54 PM

...good god ...

11/17/2005 8:37:47 PM

Florida's finally executing decently this half...

They really need to work on defending the transition shots, though.

11/17/2005 8:39:45 PM

Wake will be fine and contend hard in the ACC, they have size shots and excellent coach

they will win this game, at least they should if Gray and Williams can get the inside out game going...they will be tough later down the road, its early guys...they are good

11/17/2005 8:40:47 PM

I don't consider Prosser an excellent coach just because he hasn't really changed at all during his time here. He's never addressed the fact that his teams don't know how to play defense. And now that he doesn't really have a point guard, he's keeping the team running the same style of play they used with Paul instead of trying to adjust to his players this year.

11/17/2005 8:51:51 PM

havent seen a fire prosser thread anywhere

seems like it works for him though doesnt it, why change a good thing?

i mean hes got his team ranked in the top 25 early on competing in the hardest bball conference on earth besides the NBA.

11/17/2005 8:54:15 PM

Well, you can win games on all-offense. And he's demonstrated that, with his 20-win seasons.

But you won't win a championship.

11/17/2005 8:57:21 PM

got WF +6.... looking good, going to come down to foul shots though

11/17/2005 8:59:10 PM

wow, that was the shittiest 45 seconds of basketball I have ever witnessed

11/17/2005 9:05:30 PM

goddammit Calibos, hit a fucking shot

11/17/2005 9:09:04 PM

Quote :

"Shit, +2? I get the feeling Wake's going down by 10 or more..."

Hmm, I could end up being right, even with Florida's shitty 1st-half play.

11/17/2005 9:10:21 PM

jk

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 9:19 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2005 9:19:08 PM

Now this is exactly why you need to move Gray back to the wing.

When you don't run sets that get him moving off the ball, you completely waste his amazing shooting ability throughout the game.

11/17/2005 9:19:56 PM

well, worst case I get a push... miss one dammit

11/17/2005 9:20:04 PM

sweet!

11/17/2005 9:20:47 PM

god Billy Donovan looks like an asshole, literally like the hole in the ass

11/17/2005 9:22:26 PM

what a sloppy game

wake looked horrible

11/17/2005 9:30:24 PM

Quote :

"Wake will be fine and contend hard in the ACC, they have size shots and excellent coach they will win this game, at least they should if Gray and Williams can get the inside out game going...they will be tough later down the road, its early guys...they are good "

[no]

Also...there are a decent number of Wake fans who are dissatisfied with the way Wake has continue to suck at defense, that he has trouble in tournaments (they got to the elite 8 a couple years ago with an easy road and a great team), and that he hasn't been recruiting too well lately.

He's not close to a "Fire Prosser" thread...but he's definitely not untouchable. We'll see how he fares after these next two years.

11/17/2005 9:34:28 PM

haha wake lost?

damn basketball comes on early on the west coast

11/17/2005 10:04:52 PM

Yeah...I meet a lot of Wake fans out here (obviously), and while they're not calling for Prosser's head or anything like that, there are definitely things about his style that displease them.

I think they'll end up maybe mid-tier in the ACC this year, sheerly on the size factor (and maybe some of the new guys will step up and gain some experience/confidence). But to look at this team right now and say that they're going to compete at a high level just isn't right.

11/17/2005 10:06:27 PM

Remember when Chris Duhon was supposed to be one of the best 2 guards in america playing with Jason Williams? Then he made the switch to point guard, and everyone started saying he sucked. Its a totally different feel for the game at 1 vs. 2. It took Duhon untill the middle of his senior year to become a good point guard(and a damn good one at that), but he never regained the natural scoring ability he once had. They need Gray to score way more than they need him to run point...they just better move him back before they ruin their season.

11/17/2005 10:14:26 PM

Well, there are a couple of issues with moving him back:

1) He wants to play point just to prove that he can do it.
2) They didn't return any other guards. (The other four returning players are Williams, Visser, Strickland, and Ellis.)

So he's definitely staying at the point for the time being, until either Drum, Hale, or Dukes demonstrates that they can handle the pressure. But what they need to do--and aren't doing right now--is moving Gray off the ball. He can be the PG and still be the outside threat they need, but you have to adjust the plays so he has the opportunity.

11/17/2005 10:21:52 PM

.Well on top of them playing awful defense, they really only have 3 people who can put points on the board on any given night, Gray, Strickland, Williams....someone else needs to step up or they are gonna be screwed in ACC play this season.

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 10:29 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2005 10:28:44 PM

Wake did not look good at all tonight...they will not finish in the top half of the acc if they play like that all season

Prosser's teams never play defense so it will be hard for them to improve b/c they simply aren't going to be able to score at the pace as they did w/ paul there b/c Gray is NOT a point guard and their other options are pathetic (at this point)

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 10:31 PM. Reason : they might develop]

11/17/2005 10:30:41 PM

Quote :

".Well on top of them playing awful defense, they really only have 3 people who can put points on the board on any given night, Gray, Strickland, Williams"

Now lets look at those three guys in depth:

Williams: Could fould out on any given night and still doesn't have the best hands (got stripped by Florida guards several times tonight).

Strickland: Although has started out well this year...is extremely inconsistent and often lets his emotions get the best of him.

Gray: Is limited in his scoring by playing the point. Scored a lot of his points tonight at the end when he was just gunning.



Wake is really going to struggle this year. It will take one or two of their lesser guys blowing up for them to have a "good" season this year.

11/17/2005 11:36:57 PM

I expect Prosser to flame out in the next couple of yrs

you guys should appreciate Herb more for being as consistent as he is

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 2:11 AM. Reason : k]

11/18/2005 2:06:29 AM

ah yes. herb...the epitome of consistent mediocrity.

11/18/2005 2:50:35 AM

^you mean "consistently getting better".

Unlike flash in the pan coaches like Amato, Hewitt, and Prosser (I'm jumping the gun on the last two, but they should both struggle a lot this year and next year).

11/18/2005 9:17:50 AM

and whose to say we wont struggle? our taem without hodge is still untested

11/18/2005 9:33:23 AM

and whos to say we will struggle?

We havent struggled with our cupcakes

wake did

gtfo

11/18/2005 9:48:38 AM

my point is calling anybody out this early and condemning them is crazy. unc lost to santa clara first game. 2 years ago dukes final four team struggled with detroit and portland and then lost to purdue in alaska. its too early to say a coach is going to fail without the guys he lost over the summer.

11/18/2005 9:53:21 AM

yeah, i hate wake but there's always a new learning curve when you lose important players. they'll be ok

11/18/2005 10:00:09 AM

^ and ^^: you are both right, but those were different circumstances

UNC lost without Felton (still shouldn't have lost but lost without their PG)

Duke didn't have a true point guard at the time that was comfortable (Duhon got better as the season wore on at playing the point, but was struggling early)

Wake has the same problem: they do not have a point guard and from the looks of their options, it doesn't look like they have one that can step up. Gray simply HAS to play off of the ball for them b/c he is such a great scorer and much better w/o the ball and the other people looked flat bad. That is not to say that one of them can't improve, but none of them looked like a Jason Williams freshman point guard possibility or even anything close

11/18/2005 10:46:08 AM

^^^It's not about winning or losing. It's about looking at the way the team functions.

While it's true that teams do develop over the course of the season, it's also true that some of the problems you start with will still be there in March.

Like, looking at Florida last night, they started off shaky, making a lot of the common mistakes of a young team early in the season (some bad decisions and turnovers that shouldn't have happened). But overall they approached the game with a solid plan, and once they settled down in the second half and executed they looked much better.

11/18/2005 11:14:54 AM