I call bullshit. Lately I have attended classes while contagious, I mean no one any harm. I commute from Murphy to Cullowhee... there's nothing like trying to drive while sneezing five times in a curve in the Nantahala Gorge.

But in our high schools there are VERY strict policies. Time must be made up, usually on a Saturday morning. Here's the fucked up part. If athletes miss X days they are INELIGIBLE for the following season, regardless of reason or if they make up the academic time.

Bullshit... you miss what you miss in lecture... it's your job to get it from others if you can... if you can pass the test... what difference does it make if you were holding you dick and snoring but counted as "present."

2/6/2006 3:19:58 PM

there's a real argument that going to class/work sick is actually unethical

2/6/2006 3:20:53 PM

When teaching... I FREQUENTLY encounter students who should be in bed, But they limp in for fear of the consequences.

I went today and friday... and I tried to cover every cough and not touch anybody, but I was inherently dangerous to my fellow students.

2/6/2006 3:24:37 PM

My hs wasn't THAT bad, but they wanted me to be there even though I was in surgery basically. So my parents pulled me out and enrolled me in a type of home schooling thing.

2/6/2006 4:57:36 PM

bttt for the BS

2/7/2006 12:42:37 AM

do you know my sister schuyler?

2/7/2006 1:58:59 AM

well, i was assuming you were a student at western... sounds like you are some sort of high school teacher... nevermind.

2/7/2006 2:00:15 AM

^a little of both.

2/7/2006 2:22:27 AM

you wont ever see me in class sick

2/7/2006 2:23:04 AM

the reason why they have attendance policies is that they are sick of students not coming to class then wasting the professor's time with questions that were addressed in class. It also has to do with not wanting to her truant students bitch about bad grades.

2/7/2006 3:41:42 AM

Well, when you have a teacher or two that are so crappy that you can actually learn more at home using your book I don't find an attendance policy applicable.

Last semester I had this teacher, *cough*Howard*cough*, who got pissed off about a week in and made attendance required and reinforced it by quizing us every day. I mean come on, we were all Juniors and Seniors. By this time we know what we can/can't pull off with, don't treat us like 5 year olds.

2/7/2006 7:13:42 AM

why did he get pissed off?

2/7/2006 8:02:29 AM

If I was a teacher and didn't want my students to skip. I would take all the lecture notes off the internet. I mean, why should I go to class when all the profesor does is read the owerpoint to me, I can read it faster at my own computer.

2/7/2006 8:12:10 AM

^^^^I see what you are saying and with some upper level courses attendance policies make alot of sense, but some courses here are a friggin joke.

I took Soc 204 and went to the class 4 times over the course of the semester (3 of which were test days) and still made an A. I knew the material because I did the reading and HW assignments. It would have been worthless for me to spend all that time in class. Alot of my friends have had similar experiences with lower level "survey type" courses.

In these cases, you either need to make the material/grading hard enough for it to be worth it to go to class or there doesn't need to be an attendance policy

[Edited on February 7, 2006 at 8:13 AM. Reason : ^no, there werent notes or anything on the net for this class that I remember]

2/7/2006 8:12:37 AM

I made an a or b in meteorology at State by going to class 6 times (including exams) the prof a was a total fucktard, so I said "fuck this shit." I still had to do the homework and read the book... no regrets.

2/7/2006 9:10:32 AM

A in several 400 level IE courses (ok, so it isn't the toughest engineering major out there--spare me the lecture on that) without going a single time besides the tests. If you have last years test, can do the hw's and have someone turn them in for you and can learn on your own and obviously pull it off, attendance is just bullshit that makes the professor feel more like they're actually doing something. It sucks bc now I'm back tracking and taking all the 200 level lit courses and shit that I never took before and they're all hardcore about attendance (and class is at 8am, everyday)

[Edited on February 7, 2006 at 10:11 AM. Reason : and, of course, easy as fuck]

2/7/2006 10:02:54 AM

here would be my policy. after the first 2 weeks ill make an arbitrary number of how many students MUST be in the class at any given day. this ideally would be 20% above the amount of ppl that ALWAYS comes.

if there were not the required amount of people there at any day, attendence would be taken and the penalty would be decently steep.

2/7/2006 10:16:53 AM

i thought the university required attendance in 200 level courses?

2/7/2006 10:22:30 AM

doesnt mean ppl enforce them.

2/7/2006 10:46:33 AM

1) Soap Box???
2) Are we talking attendance for HS or for NCSU? They are completely different things...
3) What do you propose to do (other than complain)?

2/7/2006 11:01:32 AM

Quote :

"i thought the university required attendance in 200 level courses?"

they require it to be taken.

Quote :

"Teachers in 100- and 200-level courses must keep a record of attendance throughout the semester. "

here
doesn't mean they have to do anything with it, or do it every class.
i've had instructors who were attendance nazis, and penalized you for not coming, and then i've had ones who agreed it was a joke. then there are the ones who take it, and use it at the end of the semester, if you're sitting on some important border for grades.

i think the thread was supposed to be about HS attendance policies. as i understand it, there are also funding issues related to attendance.
I never got to miss much school. my mother was always about using us to further allow her laziness (i.e., stay home, do more chores), so even if i was sick, i went to school just to be away from her.

that, and tokeep causing trouble at school.

2/7/2006 11:33:00 AM

Quote :

"2) Are we talking attendance for HS or for NCSU? They are completely different things..."

2/7/2006 12:01:43 PM

Both. I'm looking for a discussion of ideas...

[Edited on February 7, 2006 at 12:10 PM. Reason : ideas]

2/7/2006 12:06:36 PM

I have a 300 level class that allows 1 and only 1 unexcused absence per semester. I wind up drivinhg across town to go to student health when i dont need to see a doc just to get a note for it to be exused. I dont normally just ditch classes (maybe 2 days a semster for travel or other reasons that arent being sick), and find it pretty damned pissy frankly.

My HS didnt have an attendance policy that strict, by far. I call BS on your high schools as well

2/7/2006 5:49:17 PM

Quote :

"there's a real argument that going to class/work sick is actually unethical"

2/7/2006 10:57:37 PM

To attend class I have to travel 74.5 miles from my home. Not inculding inclement weather.

2/7/2006 11:18:05 PM

Most of the time attendance is BS, but I think it's pretty rude to ditch class if there are 9 people and it's a seminar class. I had a class like that and I would be the only person to show up sometimes. Really hard to have a seminar with myself and a teacher.

2/11/2006 11:18:20 AM

^^

You need some DE. Or move closer to school. It seems like a waste of time to sign up for classes, pay for said classes, then bitch about having to go to those classes.

2/11/2006 12:39:32 PM

i had a class where if you were late/absent more than twice, you failed. no negotiation.
the first class, he counted like 6-7 kids late and called them out. so they had one other chance the whole year to be late.

the class was cool though.

2/11/2006 2:13:01 PM

^cold... so cold....

2/11/2006 2:40:37 PM

It depends on the school. I missed 8 days one year in high school(Enloe) and they freaked out and kept telling me I wasn't going to graduate, even though you can miss 20. However, my sister has missed 130(YES 130 DAYS!) so far and only a few were for her actually being sick and has had no problem getting by the attendance policies. She goes to Athens.

2/11/2006 3:02:50 PM

NCSU Attendence Policies Opinions:
-If you have something better to do with your time, don't show up to class.
-If you don't mind wasting tuition money you paid, don't show up to class.
-If you are going to interrupt my learning experience because of forced attendence, don't show up to class.

I'll say three things about high school administrative politics and be done with it:
-My ex-g/f had her purse stolen senior year with her SS Card in it (she was gonna do something afterschool with it that day). Security cameras were supposed to be in place around the school. She pretty much got sent away and was told there was nothing they could do for her.
-My senior class made a tshirt that said "School or Jail, What's the Difference?". We had a side by side comparison listed on back of the shirt. I think more of these shirts were sold than the school's senior tshirts. Liked my courses, loved my instructors, hated the school.
-Attendence policies I consider to fall in the same category as the other two. Very elaborate over the top bullshit which detracts from the purpose of high school, learning and maturing. Its forced, and good luck getting that changed.

2/11/2006 4:10:04 PM

If highschool were more of a privilige and less of an obligation it wouldn't even be an issue. Let people pay for there own education see if they show up to class. And if class isn't worth going to maybe they ought not pay for it, much less go to it. Stupid nanny-state garbage.

As for NCSU, I don't strictly enforce any attendance policy in the 100-200 level classes I teach. Mainly because I don't want to kill people's relatives. It seems anytime someone misses a class a relative dies. Anyway, I figure that the students are adults and ought to be responsible for their own behaviour. If they want to fail my course, so be it. I don't want to fail them, but hey if you never come to class and don't bother to read the syllabus, do your homework and such then guess what... you tend to fail.

My perspective as a student is that missing classes is just plain stupid in general. Everytime
I miss a class I generate all kinds of unecessary catch-up work. I think students would do better
if they could get in the mindset that school is a job. Not going to class and studying is no different than missing work at a real job, except that it's even more stupid because you paid to go to school.

2/11/2006 5:03:09 PM

personally, I don't understand why some professors are so anal about attendance. Most of us in college are paying for it ourselves, or paying back student loans, so if you choose to skip class and don't do the work, you're wasting your own money. The professors shouldn't care if you're there or not.

2/11/2006 6:49:32 PM

Quote :

"Bullshit... you miss what you miss in lecture... it's your job to get it from others if you can... if you can pass the test... what difference does it make"

Quote :

"-If you have something better to do with your time, don't show up to class. -If you don't mind wasting tuition money you paid, don't show up to class. -If you are going to interrupt my learning experience because of forced attendence, don't show up to class."

Quote :

"If highschool were more of a privilige and less of an obligation it wouldn't even be an issue. Let people pay for there own education see if they show up to class. And if class isn't worth going to maybe they ought not pay for it, much less go to it. Stupid nanny-state garbage"

Quote :

"personally, I don't understand why some professors are so anal about attendance. Most of us in college are paying for it ourselves, or paying back student loans, so if you choose to skip class and don't do the work, you're wasting your own money. The professors shouldn't care if you're there or not."

Exactly. x4

Does anyone actually defend these bullshit attendance policies?

It's quite simple really--all that needs to be done is to "let nature take it's course." If a student fails a class, mostly because of poor attendance, then oh fucking well. It's their (or their parents') money down the drain. Maybe next time, they'll be more responsible.

2/12/2006 11:01:37 AM

it's the university's attempt at a proactive solution.

you should be in class anyways. you're paying for it.

2/12/2006 11:23:04 AM

Quote :

"Most of us in college are paying for it ourselves, or paying back student loans, so if you choose to skip class and don't do the work, you're wasting your own money. "

That's the taxpayer's money. That's the only plank I can't support in the I DON'T WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL argument. In-state kids who think mom, scholarship or themselves are footing 100% of the bill are delusional.

2/12/2006 11:23:18 AM

"university's attempt at a proactive solution" = "Stupid nanny-state garbage"

Quote :

"That's the taxpayer's money."

Perhaps that's part of the problem....

2/12/2006 11:44:02 AM

Quote :

"However, my sister has missed 130(YES 130 DAYS!) so far and only a few were for her actually being sick and has had no problem getting by the attendance policies."

How the fuck are you gonna miss 70% of a year in high school and not get in trouble?

2/12/2006 12:25:38 PM

I went to Athens from 1996-2000 and don't remember being able to miss that much school. I was so smart I was even in AP lunch though so I couldn't've missed five minutes without getting left behind.

2/12/2006 12:29:36 PM

I only missed one day of high school--senior skip day.

2/12/2006 12:32:57 PM

i all of the free ones they gave you. it was like ten a semester or something.

2/12/2006 1:19:03 PM

Quote :

" How the fuck are you gonna miss 70% of a year in high school and not get in trouble?"

I wish I knew. It angers me but there is nothing I can do to force her to go to school. I just hope the administration comes to their senses and fail her so she'll learn a lesson.

2/13/2006 1:25:52 PM

my sister didnt go to her senior year or most of her junior year (and im not really exaggerating) and graduated
but she's white, pretty, wealthy, and smart

2/13/2006 1:32:35 PM

Quote :

"I wish I knew. It angers me but there is nothing I can do to force her to go to school. I just hope the administration comes to their senses and fail her so she'll learn a lesson."

The administrators can waive the attendance policy for extenuating circumstances, and I think the policy for it being waived varies quite a bit from school to school. I know at my high school all you had to do was go talk to your counselor about your "problems" and you could usually get abscences excused for about anything.

I think the big mistake your sister is making is missing out on all of high school. Everyone thinks they have better things to do in High school, but for most of us looking back from a few years down the road it was not that bad. Maybe you could talk to her from the standpoint of an older person (but not like the parents old). She is probably not trying to hear it, but later on she may recognize it was good advice.



[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2006 2:39:35 PM