yes, i searched and found SOME old threads concerning digital cameras, but i'm specifically looking at digital SLR's - amateur price range (~$500) at 6MP+ with ~10x optical zoom

i am not opposed to buying used, but i'm looking for a good STARTER camera that takes clear pics, even if i don't have the steadiest hand

i'm coming from a 3.2mp point-and-shoot that took gorgeous outdoor pics but was horrible indoors...i'm looking for something versatile that takes great outdoor pics and decent indoor

i am specifically interested in an SLR for the ability to add lenses (though i don't care if it's a fixed-lens system or a traditional removeable-lens system)

i found the 9mp fuji s9000 for ~$650...i realize this is pretty cheap, and i'm sure there's a reason it's that cheap, but i'm finding mixed reviews on it

2/13/2006 5:07:41 PM

wtf is fuji? the answer is nikon or canon.

2/13/2006 6:47:45 PM

fuji has decent cameras too, but yeah nikon or canon is usually the answer.

2/13/2006 6:53:23 PM

well...actually, my brother has a fujufilm finepix point and shoot that takes GREAT pictures...so my only experience with them tells me they're quality

that said, looks like the d50 is looking about perfect

2/13/2006 7:02:07 PM

At this price range you have 2 choices: Canon Digital Rebel XT or the Nikon D50.

They are both comperable, great cameras. However, you'll be getting a standard (pretty cheap) kit lens. You'll be taking great ourdoor shots and decent indoor shots. That said you'd be better prepared to be slightly disappointed sometimes because these cameras basically expect you to do post processing work. They dont sharpen your photos very much for you because they want to give the user the chance to do it themselves. In addititon, like I said, you'll be getting a kit lens at first. Your images wont be as sharp as if you spend money on an "L" lens or even a decent $500 lens. So in summation, dont expect to be a professional without putting a little extra time post proccessing or having better equipment. I'm using a Canon 20d with a few mid-priced lenses and I still have to do post processing work its an unavoidable fact. Also, the pop-up flash is not a perfect solution. It basically has a range that goes up to 20 feet at the highest ISO. If you want awesome indoor shots, you'd have to buy an external flash to put in the hotshoe which range from $80-300 bones.

I don't mind Fuji's but I don't think I'd want to buy a digital SLR even though I've never used one. I love my Fuji E550 point-n-shoot its good for its price. As for Sony, they have a fixed lens system camera with a Zeiss lens on it, but I dont like not being able to change my lenses. The camera also costs around $900+ so that's not an option.

[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 7:26 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2006 7:24:30 PM

Um, reading your post is making me question whether you really know what exactly a digital SLR is. Fixed-lens on an SLR? 10x optical zoom? The point & shoot idea of using 'Nx optical zoom' doesn't translate directly to the SLR level of cameras. The 18-55mm 'kit' lens that can come with the Nikon D50 is like a 3x zoom equivalent. You'll have to buy a different and $$ lens to get to a 10x equivalent.

Be aware, the Fuji S9000 camera you mentioned is **not** a digital SLR camera. It is a higher end 'prosumer' camera that looks and feels like an SLR, but can't match the image qualities. Example: the sensor size for the Fuji is around 9mm x 7mm. The entry level Canon digital SLR, the Rebel XT, has a sensor size of 22mm x 15mm. Larger sensor size will result in images with less noise and improves the dynamic range of the camera.

If the Fuji is the kind of camera you're interested in, then you can look at the Canon S2 IS (i have this), the Panasonic Fz5 (it has a leica lens), or the Sony H1.

Before you get deeper in this, read up a bit on the kinds of camera. I think you're getting terms mixed up here...good luck.

[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 9:06 PM. Reason : added zoom info]

[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 9:07 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2006 9:03:24 PM

i think i AM getting some of the terminology mixed up, but i think most people know what i'm talking about...for example, by fixed lens, i mean the cameras that have the lenses attached permanently to the body (i know the olympus e20n does this, as well as some others)...by optical zoom, i'm referring to these fixed-lens cameras and their ability to zoom

thanks for the info about the sensor, though, that is something i was not aware of (i won't claim to even be all that knowledgeable on the topic, because i'm obviously not)

2/13/2006 9:21:45 PM

SLR = Single Lens Reflex

Different then a point+shoot in that it has a mirror that flips up when the shutter is released (or something like that)

2/13/2006 9:39:22 PM

I hate the whole "nX zoom" terminology. I'm into the old school "mm" terminology

2/13/2006 11:04:13 PM

http://www.dpreview.com/

I like the Olympus E-500 (EVOLT)
bit higher at 750.. if you wanted used I'm sure you could find one
I have a C-5050, basically an older semi-SLR, quite a few of the features but the lens doesnt come off and its not as big (which is a plus for me) still works great..

Nikon > Canon, though Canon seem more popular

2/13/2006 11:08:49 PM

I got a Nikon d70 for Christmas and really like it. I got it off ebay with the 18-70mm lens for 750 but I think they have went down a little. I have heard good things about the d50 and the Canon Rebel also. I would go with one of these two if your looking for an digital slr in your price range. Go here they have full reviews of just about any camera and have the answers you are looking for. http://www.dpreview.com/

heres some pics I have taken with the d70 nothing special
http://community.webshots.com/album/527564850qqzbHk

[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 11:10 PM. Reason : link]

2/13/2006 11:09:58 PM

Quote :

"Nikon > Canon, though Canon seem more popular"

Canon does seem more popular while hard-core professionals like the Nikons. I'm not sure if it is because they really think so or they're stubborn... kind of like Mac hardcore junkies

2/13/2006 11:14:13 PM

Well, again, I don't think you can so casually toss aside the difference between an D-SLR and a high level 'prosumer' point&shoot. The type of advice you should get is very different then. The Sony R1 is the only camera I know of that combines the sensor size benefit of a DSLR yet have a live preview LCD. This is another key difference. When you speak of D-SLRs, you must understand that you will not be using the LCD screen to frame your shot. You will be using an optical viewfinder. The 'prosumer' cameras (Canon S2 IS, Canon Pro1, Panasonic Fz5 or Fz30, Fuji S9000, Sony H1, Nikon 8800) will let you use the LCD to compose your shots. For me, I choose to use the viewfinder because I find it reduces handshake and will take better photos. For this reason, I can't fathom the Sony R1. Anyway...the other improvements you can get with a D-SLR are really great. Manual control of the zoom and focus control on a DSLR is so much faster, compared to rocker switches on P&S cams (although some high end prosumers do have this). I shot with my trusty Canon S2 IS several times a week while I was studying abroad in Europe last semester. I don't like using the flash because it washes out the scene, so really low-light situations always frustrated me because the camera wasn't sensitive enough to capture the shot without blurring. After I came back, I was experimenting with a friend's D-SLR (Nikon D50), and it was really nice to see its speed in low light situations. Those are the kinds of places where a DSLR can really outpace a prosumer P&S. However, it's nice with the Canon S2 IS to have 12 optical zoom capability and image-stablization built-in, with a 640x480 @ 30fps movie mode. I liked the versatility of the camera and it had acceptable trade-offs (in my opinion), and at around $450 it fit in my price range....

Canon has made a lot of strides in the D-SLR area. If you choose to go the D-SLR route, I think you will be happy with either brand (Canon Rebel XT and Nikon's D50 are the only ones in your price range). I believe the Nikon D70 is the best selling D-SLR ever offered. It is my opinion that the usability of Canon in the P&S exceeds that of other brands -- navigating menu options and operation of the camera itself.

Another thing to consider: what subjects will you shoot the most? A Nikon camera will really bring out the blues and be very sharp - great for sceneries or landscapes, but a Canon will bring out the warmth in your photo. A Canon will probably do a better job at capturing pleasing skin tones, for example. Same is probably true for a Kodak. A Fuji camera will bring out the greens. You guys remember the package color of Kodak film and of Fuji film? Those colors are there for a reason...it used to be all about the chemistry of the films.

But again, ask yourself what you want to do and how much of an investment you're willing to make. A high end prosumer will give you a lot of versatility out of the box for $400 to $600 -- long zoom (8x to 12x optical), video modes, plenty of megapixels (you really need around 5), etc. An entry level D-SLR ($700-$900 for body+starter lens) will require an additional investment in lenses ($500+) if you want to be able to zoom in close to subjects...unless the approximate 3x that the starter lens gives you is acceptable.

And of course, a D-SLR is going to require a larger camera bag than a prosumer P&S. How much traveling or moving around do you think you'll be doing? Do some thinking on this.......

[Edited on February 14, 2006 at 1:54 AM. Reason : .]

2/14/2006 1:45:23 AM

^ very well done. Bravo.

2/14/2006 2:09:59 AM

D50 unless you need something more expandable

2/14/2006 2:40:11 AM

^^^ thank you...that was really in-depth

and yet, i still don't know...here's my reasoning: if i'm going to spend the money on a NICE camera, whether it's a d-slr or a p&s, i want to have something that won't be out of date anytime soon...additionally, if i choose (or, are financially able) to get more into photography (i REALLY enjoy it, though my experience is limited), i would like the ability to dive right in as opposed to having to buy yet another camerae...the d-slr seems like the best investment, but i could save some money now and simply buy a quality p&s

yes, i just reinterated everything srvora just said

so, if i choose to go the prosumer p&s route, and am willing to spend around $300-400, what are people's suggestions? the sad 3x optical zoom on my current camera is probably the single most annoying thing about it...so i'd REALLY like to jump the zoom up to something around the 10-12x range...

2/14/2006 11:09:13 AM

The Nikon Coolpix S4 looks interesting. Its small but still has a 10x optical zoom.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AXMEDI/sr=8-4/qid=1139935540/ref=pd_bbs_4/002-8150758-6001640?%5Fencoding=UTF8

2/14/2006 11:47:19 AM

any comments on the panasonic lumix dmc-fz30?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz30/

8mp, 12x optical zoom, awesome reviews, found it online for less than $500

2/14/2006 8:19:06 PM

Here's the unavoidable thing: at the $300 to $400 price range, barely anything you buy will *not* be 'out of date anytime soon'. I'm not sure you can do anything around it, except lower your definition of what 'out of date' means.

That being said, the Pana Fz30 is a *lot* of camera for the price. The manual zoom and focus rings are a huge plus, and it's got image stablization. There are noise problems with it (like with my S2, you wouldn't want to be shooting above ISO 400), but unlike the S2, it's got a Leica lens. The movie mode, sleek black body styling, and external flash hot-shoe are also big selling points.

Because the lens doesn't extend on start-up, it will be similar in size to an entry level SLR. You'll need a good sized bag for it. It also uses a lithium ion battery. On one hand, they seem like good batteries. I might be conservative in this, but I like having AAs. I bought a set of four 2350mAh ni-mh rechargeables and they've worked great. Plus, finding spare AAs while traveling is both cheaper and easier than a special lithium ion battery. But again, personal preference here.

The Fz30, though expensive, is a fine camera.

2/14/2006 8:50:05 PM

I've got the Canon Rebel XT. It's a nice solid camera, unfortunately I haven't had enough time this semester to really learn what it can do. I'd still reccomend it, though

2/15/2006 12:22:07 AM

Just picked up a Nikon d50 today. So far so good.

2/19/2006 9:19:10 PM