my roommate and I are having an argument that needs clarification

at the end, did La Marc (himself) organize Danny's scheme to beat the Night Fox or did he just simply warn Danny (George Clooney) and Rusty (Brad Pitt) about the Night Fox's current ploy to destroy them. That means that La Marc had faith in Danny and Rusty's ability to outsmart the Night Fox.

Also, did La Marc simply set this whole thing up to get his daughter back or was that a happy ending result to the whole scheme

discuss



[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 11:32 AM. Reason : grammar]

3/1/2006 11:31:35 AM

i think la marc just warned them. and i think it was just a happy ending, though who knows, the guy is supposedly the greatest thief ever, so maybe it was his plan all along.

3/1/2006 11:34:57 AM

2 and 1

3/1/2006 11:45:51 AM

2 and 1?

3/1/2006 11:47:23 AM

he definitely just warned him--he just gives them info they need to outsmart him. the plan itself they devise...
plus--it's obvious to me that brad pitt, rusty, knew la marc probably all along. especially after him and his daughter first got together. rusty's the kind of guy that knows everyone. he probably met la marc in passing after he leaves her in rome and goes on hiatus. so it's possible that la marc's intentions were to reunite with his daughter...but i really think that was just a bonus

3/1/2006 12:04:03 PM

see i agree but my roommate thinks La Marc devised the whole thing

that TOTALLY discredits Daniel Ocean

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 12:06 PM. Reason : i wish i could find links to prove this]

3/1/2006 12:06:37 PM

Second option in the first question, first in the second question. Although I don't think its, devised the whole thing, as saw the competition coming and decided to use it as an opportunity. I think Danny and Co. planned the specifics though. Either way siding with Danny shows he thinks hes the better thief.

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ...]

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 12:09 PM. Reason : ...]

3/1/2006 12:06:51 PM

Movie tried to be too smart for its own good. There is no debate to me. I stopped caring after 3/4th of the film.

3/1/2006 12:07:13 PM

well you just contradicted yourself

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 12:07 PM. Reason : hadrian]

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 12:11 PM. Reason : if anyone can find links to prove this, please post]

3/1/2006 12:07:34 PM

^^i agree....11 felt a lot more light hearted. i still liked 12, but not as much. i'm hopin they'll go back to the style of 11 with 13.

3/1/2006 12:14:05 PM

i feel lamarc and danny set it up


la marc no longer had the skills to get back his daughter or the egg
(even though it didn't take too much skill to not follow the decoy)
but obviously wanted them both back, now with his ex-wife dead, he was free to get both

3/1/2006 12:14:26 PM

i liked 12 better simply because it was complex

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 12:25 PM. Reason : did someone say there was a 13?]

3/1/2006 12:23:42 PM

i stopped caring when tess "pretended" to be julia roberts

fuck that

3/1/2006 12:33:40 PM

i thought that was funny

3/1/2006 12:39:25 PM

yeah, i thought it was pretty good too

3/1/2006 12:54:57 PM

especially with Bruce

that was hilarious

3/1/2006 1:07:21 PM

i thought it was one of the worst sequels ive seen. i dunno, just didnt have the same feel as the first one.

3/1/2006 1:23:02 PM

I thought it was ghey how the movie led the audience to believe that the group was winging it as best as they could and continuously fucking up, but then we find out at the end that they knew what was going on the whole time and had deliberately let themselves fuck up, to let the Night Fox think he had won. I think this way because, to me, it felt unnecessary to trick the audience like that. It's like they were pretending to get screwed to such a degree that they even pretended among themselves that this was the case. That just felt really redundant to me, and served no other purpose but to fool the audience.

I dunno if I'm making any sense here, and it wasn't a bad movie overall, but I just felt like the entire thing wasn't set up and executed properly.

3/1/2006 2:42:17 PM

but they had to assume that the night fox was watching them the whole time

3/1/2006 2:46:26 PM

Hmm, good point.

3/1/2006 2:50:04 PM

Quote :

"but then we find out at the end that they knew what was going on the whole time and had deliberately let themselves fuck up,"

there's even clues throughout letting you know that they were fucking up on purpose b4 the end when it's all revealed

A- after they go through the time frame of the original heist of the egg before...rusty says under his breath to danny"10:45 we all get arrested."
B- when tess is brought in to be julia, you can hear the "arrested ones" talking over the scene (even though they aren't in it)...they are talking about her and wondering "will it work?" "do you think she'll notice?" talking about the cop and other blurbs...then of course around the time of the 2nd heist attempt on the egg, they all look at each other sitting in the cell...and danny's smiling.

3/1/2006 2:58:31 PM

yeah i thought it was rather genius

3/1/2006 4:35:04 PM

yea there is a 13 in the works, all the original cast back

i'll try to find a link

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 5:21 PM. Reason : .]

3/1/2006 5:21:15 PM

http://comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=12663

Quote :

"When ComingSoon.net spoke to Soderbergh about this new project, we were just as curious about the recent announcement that the director plans to return for a third time to do another Danny Ocean movie, and we wondered if the director made those movies to be able to finance smaller films like Bubble. "No, I love making those," he told us. "It's just balance. I want to be able to move in as many and whatever direction I want, and part of that is that every once in awhile, you have to make a movie that everyone has heard of. Both the second one and this one were generated by me saying that I want to do another one. Certainly, nobody's asking for this one. I just had another idea and went to everybody, and everybody said 'Fine.' "I checked with them before we even got started, just to make sure," he continued when asked whether the entire cast, including George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon and the rest would return like they did in Ocean's 12. "I said that I had an idea and I want to go back, but I'm not doing it unless everybody is on board." "As a director, I get to do things in those movies that I can't do anywhere else, so they're fun for me," he said, explaining the appeal of the "Ocean" franchise to him. "They're not easy in the sense that I work hard on them. You really have to show up every day with ideas to keep things moving along, and sometimes that's hard, because there are days when you don't have any ideas. It's also difficult to find material that is really commercial that doesn't make you feel bad in the morning, so these are great opportunities for me.""

3/1/2006 5:25:22 PM

I'm gonna go against the crowd and say that La Marc completely orchestrated the whole thing by manipulating Danny and the Night Fox, along with whatever else, to reuinite himself with his daughter. I disagree that this undermines Danny and Rusty's position in the grand scheme of things. You think they're big fish, and they are, but there's always somebody bigger.


Also, while I really loved Ocean's 11, on the whole I think Ocean's 12 was a piece of shit.

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 8:41 PM. Reason : (for what it's worth)]

3/1/2006 8:40:50 PM

the critical flaw with oceans 12 is that there was no reason for the characters to become involved in the plot unless you back it all the way out and assume 50 degrees of pre-setup that doesn't even make sense

3/1/2006 8:52:58 PM

See also: the horrendously put together opening sequence which was both long and shitty.

3/1/2006 8:54:46 PM

IT WAS WORTH THE 5.50 I BOUGHT IT FOR OK

3/1/2006 9:04:54 PM

Quote :

"...it wasn't a bad movie overall, but I just felt like the entire thing wasn't set up and executed properly"

I feel the same, except I think it was all set up and little substance. Like the coolest part of the whole movie was when night fox did his run through the lazers for the fake egg. It really made me root for night fox. I wasn't at all surprised by the double dealing trickery because it was so telegraphed. You could see it coming a mile away. Btw, night fox comes out as the best character in the end, and that says something when a secondary character out does the main group in terms of entertainment.

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 9:13 PM. Reason : .]

3/1/2006 9:12:32 PM

so who will be 13, my guess is carrot top, he'll try to pull a lookey-lou by telling bad jokes, and somebody will shoot him in the fucking face, and the audience will cheer

3/1/2006 9:42:11 PM

I predict the new master thief will be none other than Bill Cosby

3/1/2006 9:47:44 PM

-personally,

hell I might even be right

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 9:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/1/2006 9:57:39 PM

Quote :

"Like the coolest part of the whole movie was when night fox did his run through the lazers for the fake egg. "

That might have been the gayest scene in the history of movies.

Some french fag dancing through lasers for 10 minutes is not "cool".

3/1/2006 10:07:47 PM

i didnt get that. they said it was random so you couldnt learn it, and yet he learned this intricate dance routine? makes no sense, though i did like the song

3/1/2006 10:08:56 PM

Maybe someone was a little too uncomfortable watching that scene.

Feeling insecure lately

3/1/2006 10:12:06 PM

he didn't learn an intricate dance

he just practiced for possibile moves

do you think poppers and lockers memorize their shit when they go into a club

3/1/2006 10:13:10 PM

By the way
Brazillian Juijitsu is Cool.








Damit

3/1/2006 10:13:31 PM

NightFox was much more talented. He was by himself. Ocean had a crew of cronies.

3/1/2006 10:14:04 PM

I might be wrong, maybe it was some type of carribean style fighting. I forgot the name. Eddie from Tekkan uses it.

[Edited on March 1, 2006 at 10:32 PM. Reason : /maybe someone here knows]

3/1/2006 10:24:26 PM

well i did consider that it was improvised, it just looked rehearsed.

3/2/2006 2:16:14 AM

^^capoeira

3/2/2006 9:22:22 AM

Quote :

"i thought it was one of the worst sequels ive seen. i dunno, just didnt have the same feel as the first one. "

that is a horrible statement. You must not have seen Rocky 5 or Bill and Ted's Bogus journey to name a few.

Quote :

"NightFox was much more talented. He was by himself. Ocean had a crew of cronies. "

Its harder to coordinate 12 people to work off a single plan, than to work by yourself.

3/2/2006 9:52:29 AM

hey what the fuck

this isnt a discussion about whether you liked the fucking movie or not (CUS PERSONALLY I DONT GIVE A FUCK IF YOU LIKED IT OR NOT)

i asked for people to discuss the plot of the story

GET BACK ON TOPIC DAMN IT

[Edited on March 2, 2006 at 10:31 AM. Reason : for those who actually read the topic, thanks for participating]

3/2/2006 10:30:57 AM

you all are forgetting something... La Marc set the Nightfox up to start the whole thing with Ocean and Rusty... when he was on the boat and didn't correct the american, he set HIS plan in motion... he set the Nightfox up to start the rivalry with Ocean... he made sure that Ocean would win by giving him information and NOT giving it to Nightfox...

Ocean's 12 had to actually pull off the theft and then complete the staging of everything so that Nightfox wouldn't know what the deal was... the whole thing was set up by La Marc presumably when rusty and danny went to him with their problem with having to get the money back... He saw the opportunity to send them to where his daughter was and get her attention, then insured that not only would they get their money, but that he would get to see hsi daughter again...

3/2/2006 10:49:15 AM

Quote :

"you all are forgetting something... La Marc set the Nightfox up to start the whole thing with Ocean and Rusty... when he was on the boat and didn't correct the american, he set HIS plan in motion... he set the Nightfox up to start the rivalry with Ocean... he made sure that Ocean would win by giving him information and NOT giving it to Nightfox... "

i disagree


La Marc apologizes for to Danny and Rusty for putting them in this situation in the moviebut then informs them that the nightfox is coming after them and for them to be aware that he will be watching them the whole time


then Danny and Rusty plan out their theft

nowhere does it show or hint that La Marc outlined the plan for them

3/2/2006 11:18:15 AM

^ Good Point, forgot about that


III
&
FH

3/2/2006 11:49:49 AM

i'm sure this has been asked hundreds of times, but do you REALLY ADD that stupid sig to EVERY one of your posts???

3/2/2006 12:01:23 PM

he gives them nothing but suggestions and then THEY create the plan in front of the audience (you just dont realize it until the end when they explain everything)

I do believe that La Marc requested that they bring his daughter to him once the whole thing was over but she had to choose to go

she chose to fake a 1077 form which she knows she will be fired for so Brad Pitt gives her the opportunity to leave that life and start a new one

[Edited on March 2, 2006 at 12:03 PM. Reason : remember, she grew up hating her dad]

3/2/2006 12:02:50 PM

but remember the whole conversation before they go to amsterdam. bernie mac says "amsterdam??" and rusty says "don't tell danny." THEN after they get there and the ex girlfriend realizes after the first heist of the bank bond and the night fox steals first that rusty was behind it b/c they raised the building. THEN CZJ goes to the hotel...first when danny sees rusty's ex girlfriend for the first time--he says to rusty "so she's--[an agent]"

it's AFTER that they meet up with la marc for the first time...they find out who the night fox is...meet la marc on the sly...steal night fox's paintings. then danny and night fox "meet about the egg" but all the while danny knows about the egg and has already stolen it per la marc's cue.

3/2/2006 12:19:00 PM

he has not already stolen it

he doesn't steal until the day it is transported for the show because they have several other fakes in transport as well


then they get arrested

[Edited on March 2, 2006 at 1:08 PM. Reason : df]

3/2/2006 1:08:41 PM