http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/23/afghan.christian.ap/index.html

Wow, wonder how this is going to turn out

3/23/2006 11:19:51 PM

I'm guessing the latter

3/23/2006 11:21:28 PM

Quote :

""If he is allowed to live in the West, then others will claim to be Christian so they can, too," he said. "We must set an example. ... He must be hanged.""

There it is. Zero to do with God, everything to do with power and control.

3/23/2006 11:23:43 PM

I have a feeling that some of the people who are outraged saying that country should be more tolerant and secular are actually largely upset because it’s a christian who is going to die, and are the same people who would have us put up christian dogma in government builds and courtrooms because they believe our country and laws are founded on those ideas.

3/24/2006 12:04:05 AM

3/24/2006 12:11:34 AM

3/24/2006 12:13:15 AM

Alright, so how many people have been hanged in America for converting to Islam?

How the hell can you compare placing a stone tablet in a courtroom to hanging someone for changing their mind?

3/24/2006 1:00:53 AM

freedom is on teh march

3/24/2006 1:01:25 AM

fuck it, loose tha nukes, on everyone....

3/24/2006 1:02:09 AM

Quote :

"freedom is on teh march"

and it went the other way.

3/24/2006 1:07:08 AM

"Alright, so how many people have been hanged in America for converting to Islam? "

None to my knowledge for islam specifically. But I can imagine somewhere in America's history their have been people hanged for their religious beliefs. Shes a witch! We've hanged other ppl for other reasons too. I'm just saying America isn't above it all.

"How the hell can you compare placing a stone tablet in a courtroom to hanging someone for changing their mind"

I didn't make a direct comparison. I obviously don’t hanging up religious laws & legislating religious morality (jailing ppl for) on which drugs & which sexual positions etc is nearly as bad as killing someone over their religion by a long shot. I'm just saying part of the US population (not the ppl on tdub who are above it all of course) is crying for secularism in other countries more so than in their own.

3/24/2006 9:08:27 AM

we're talking about now, not 1673

3/24/2006 9:50:03 AM

^

3/24/2006 9:50:37 AM

yes, 1673 isnt even really "american" history if you mean USA

even if you do count witch trials AND lynchings, neither was endorsed by the nat'l gov't

there is plenty of fucked up shit that happens all around the world and people are never brought to justice but that is more indirect than having the man be tried and sentenced.

3/24/2006 10:08:07 AM

^^^So am I... my main point was

"I'm just saying part of the US population (not the ppl on tdub who are above it all of course) is crying for secularism in other countries more so than in their own."

I tried to make that point and someone asked me how many Islamic converts we've hanged, I responded and tried to make my point clearer and now I'm being told what year it is not. If its too difficult to understand, then forget everything I've said in this thread except for that quote & this sentence referring you to it.

^ I choose my words carefully not to say USA. Witches, lynchings, jailing people for what sexual positions they are in, what drugs they use... I was going for a progressive historical representation of government related short comings & legislating religious morality. Again I wouldn't have said any of it if people had look at the point I was trying to make instead of looking at the less important things and attacking them. I'm sure this will continue to spiral away from the point I was making with responses to what I've just said instead of just reading the bolded sentence and either agreeing or disagreeing.

[Edited on March 24, 2006 at 10:13 AM. Reason : .]

3/24/2006 10:08:40 AM

ok well i see your point but i disagree

i imagine if a christian country decided to execute a hindu or a hindu country decided to execute a muslim there would be similar outrage.

now i do agree that SOME of the people are outraged for the reason you say, but they are the fringe and not the rule

3/24/2006 10:34:42 AM

Quote :

"I'm just saying part of the US population (not the ppl on tdub who are above it all of course) is crying for secularism in other countries more so than in their own."

Yes, because we already have it in our own country. Why should we be yelling and screaming about stopping religious executions in our own country that are already not taking place?

The religious nuts in our country want to place stone decalogues in our courtrooms, something tells me nearly every Muslim country already has the equivalent in their courtrooms 10 times over.

[Edited on March 24, 2006 at 10:53 AM. Reason : .,.]

3/24/2006 10:50:16 AM

"Why should we be yelling and screaming about stopping religious executions in our own country that are already not taking place"

We shouldn't be yelling or screaming about the nonexistent executions. The push for a little more religion in government here, is obviously (and admittedly on my part) much less the religion in government there. But there are some who would push for less secularism here and more secularism over there which strikes me as hypocritical. I’ve never said the level of religion in government in the 2 places we are talking about is on par with each other, but the principle of wanting more secularism when it benefits you & wanting less secularism in other places when it benefits you is a little hypocritical.

The principles go in opposite directions, that’s my point. Its not that the level of religion in government is on par. I don’t know how I can say that any more clearly. I know we aren't having lots of religious executions here.

[Edited on March 24, 2006 at 11:07 AM. Reason : .]

3/24/2006 11:05:34 AM

There are far more modern examples of Christians killing other people because of specific religious beliefs that are sponsered by the gov.

3/24/2006 11:08:31 AM

define 'modern'

(btw we live in the postmodern era and if you made that same statement for the postmodern era i would charge you to cite such incidents)

^^and perhaps they are pushing for one solid level of secularism which is more than we have here, but less than they have in afghan.

3/24/2006 11:32:41 AM

omg christians did it in the past so now they arent allowed to get mad

3/24/2006 11:42:51 AM

i'm tired of these fascists

3/24/2006 12:32:18 PM

Quote :

"But there are some who would push for less secularism here and more secularism over there which strikes me as hypocritical."

Everyone has their comfort zones. There is nothing hypocritial about wanting religion to play a role in society but not wanting to live under a theocratic state.

Think of it as a scale, purely secular on the left, theocratic on the right. Religious nuts in America want the scale to be about 75% secular, 25% religious. Theocratic nuts in Afganistan want it to be 75% religious and 25% secular. I would not call their position hypocritical any more than I would call our position hypocritical.

What I will do is condemn their chosen position, obviously 75% religious is way beyond my comfort zone. They will condemn our chosen position, obviously 75% secular is way beyond their comfort zone.

I suspect even you would object to a purely secular society (secret police hunting down religious followers for execution).

[Edited on March 24, 2006 at 12:56 PM. Reason : .,.]

3/24/2006 12:55:15 PM

It's good to see that in a thread discussing the life of a man hanging in the balance because of what he thinks, that Supplanter is battling about semantical issues. Whatever your secularist argument is, essentially you are comparing anthills here to mountains there.

3/24/2006 12:58:38 PM

Quote :

"omg christians did it in the past so now they arent allowed to get mad"

freakin stop reading my posts already because you're the dumbest human being alive.

In fact, I'm going to say that to your face the next time I see your sulking, misshapen form neanderthaling about centennial.

3/24/2006 1:24:28 PM

im not the one that made a retarded fallacy
oh wait, i forgot you dont know what a fallacy is

3/24/2006 1:29:47 PM

You know, I actually pointed out to you exactly where you fucked up in that thread.

Then a couple of TWWrs and I had a good laugh at you continued stupidity.

Then I forgot about it.

Secondly the point, as usual, flies over your head. I think you and Lokken subscribe to the same school of logic.

3/24/2006 1:33:09 PM

did you have a laugh about it at your tww party?

ahahaha

3/24/2006 1:35:31 PM

I live with two and are friends with others.

Wait, do you actually have any friends on here?

3/24/2006 1:36:37 PM

i have real life friends

3/24/2006 1:37:14 PM

See I find that hard to believe.

If you can't convince people to like you with the blank slate provided by the internet then I doubt you have many people that like you as yourself, whatever that may be.

3/24/2006 1:40:17 PM

ahaha

i dont know if i should reply, or just hope you dont edit your post

3/24/2006 1:40:56 PM

We're having a discussion here, please reply.

3/24/2006 1:41:30 PM

i met sandsanta once

him, like most t-dubers i meet, skipped any standard greeting and proceeded to just go ahead and punch me directly in the face

to be fair, i totally deserved it

3/24/2006 1:51:57 PM

If you can't convince people to like you with the blank slate provided by the internet then I doubt you have many people that like you as yourself, whatever that may be.

and on that note i have to run

3/24/2006 1:55:25 PM

try not to suck any cock on the way there

3/24/2006 1:56:53 PM

Stutter:"It's good to see that in a thread discussing the life of a man hanging in the balance because of what he thinks, that Supplanter is battling about semantical issues. Whatever your secularist argument is, essentially you are comparing anthills here to mountains there."

I specifically said that I wasn't doing a quantity comparison. No ant hills and mountains. I've already said several times that I'm not trying to make such a comparison since there was some confusion over it earlier. I can only assume you stopped reading earlier in the thread before seeing this was covered already.

I was doing a comparison of principles which, however difficult for you that is to understand, is different than semantics. Furthermore we discuss issues regarding life and death all the time on here, so don't make it out likes is something special about this thread.

Lonesnark's comfort zone is the most reasonable explanation I've heard for what would otherwise strike me as hypocrisy. But it seems a little hard to legislate comfort zones, unless your okay with a more relativistic approach. I was thinking in more absolute terms of either a theocracy or a secular republic rather than different percentage mixes.

3/24/2006 2:01:17 PM

HOW ARE YA!?!

3/24/2006 3:27:49 PM

Sounds like I hit a nerve there, JonHguhhh

3/24/2006 4:51:48 PM

Now I remember why I hate posting in the Soap Box.

As soon as you critisize someones logic, they immediately resort to childish ploys like calling names, which is very telling of ones ability to debate.

On the other hand, I could have used better wording.

So here you go Supplanter (look I didn't have to make a childish jab at your name):

This majority of this country believes in seperation of church and state. The people pushing for more religion in the government are on the fringes. Politicians utilize religion to garner votes from the masses. For the most part, you can practice any religion you want to in this country as long as it doesn't directly cause harm to others.

In Afghanistan, the governments foundation is being laid in Islamic law. Powerful government figures are religious clerics. This man wants to simply follow another religion which in no way affects the governments ability to govern and they want to kill him for it. In fact, the Clerics have stated that if the government doesn't put him to death for offending god, they will encourage the people to tear his body apart.

There is no hypocrisy to be found, but hugely different cultures. I am sorry if you think it hypocritical for our mostly secularist government to oppose the slaughtering of people because of religious beliefs in a country where we just dumped tons of money and bodies to free them from such oppression.

3/24/2006 6:25:15 PM

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN


WE "liberated" THEM

3/24/2006 6:31:45 PM

You ignored most of what I said, and then made a criticism of what I said that was just repeating others about a confusion that had already been cleared up. You also confused the difference between discussing semantic and discussing underlying principles. The stutter thing was uncalled for, but you annoyed me by doing the aforementioned things.

"There is no hypocrisy to be found, but hugely different cultures. I am sorry if you think it hypocritical for our mostly secularist government to oppose the slaughtering of people because of religious beliefs in a country where we just dumped tons of money and bodies to free them from such oppression."

It seems the way you are saying this is an attempt to make me look pro-slaughter, when I was actually pointing out underlying principles... I was not equating the level of religion in US gov to the level of religion in Islamic govs. Its a petty attack to ignore what I've said and to continue to say things like that. Earlier people in the thread were justified in it b/c I had perhaps not made myself clear, but theres no excuse for you doing it now that I've cleared it up time and again.

[Edited on March 24, 2006 at 6:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2006 6:31:45 PM