or, "More illustration that Americans are lazy fatasses who think they should get paid for doing nothing"...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/05/news/economy/jobs_immigrants/index.htm

Quote :

"Jobless rate higher for U.S.-born than immigrants Unemployment rate for foreign-born workers fell below 5% last year, below the rate for native-born workers for the first time. By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer April 6, 2006: 10:25 AM EDT NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - The unemployment rate for immigrants working in the United States fell below the rate for U.S.-born workers for the first time since the Labor Department started tracking those numbers a decade ago. Numbers from the department's Bureau of Labor Statistics show that unemployment for native-born workers fell to 5.2 percent last year from 5.5 percent in 2004. But the unemployment rate for those who were born elsewhere sank to 4.6 percent last year from 5.5 percent the year before. The strong home-building market, which lifted construction hiring, and a rebound in travel and hospitality were seen as among the factors helping immigrant workers, since those sectors employ a lot of foreign-born workers. The statistics suggest that when the job market is weak, foreign-born workers have a harder time finding work than those born in the United States. But during tightening job markets, employers turn more to workers born in other countries. The bureau's numbers don't distinguish between those here legally and those here illegally. Congress is now debating immigration reform that includes proposals to allow some current illegal immigrants to get guest worker status, and another bill that would impose tough penalties on immigrants here illegally and those who employ them."

4/6/2006 10:52:18 AM

capitalism is based on competition....makes sense

4/6/2006 10:53:37 AM

how does the president know so many names of terrorists but can't get the names of world leaders right?

[Edited on April 6, 2006 at 10:53 AM. Reason : he just rattled off like 9 names]

4/6/2006 10:53:41 AM

These numbers are a little skewed, of course. I suspect the unemployment rate among young blacks is much higher than the rate for other native born workers.

4/6/2006 11:13:26 AM

^
true. but the unemployment rate for whites is only 4.5%, so even then those evil evil evil foreigners are providing stiff competition (God bless them)...

4/6/2006 11:16:59 AM

As every Phd knows Sanjay and Zhiang are depressing wages of high skilled labor:
http://www.nber.org/papers/w12085
Good for the US economy and for the rate of innovation but bad for US scientists. Keep this study in mind next time you here some stupid pundit complain about the failure of the US education system to train the next generation of engineers and scientists.

4/6/2006 1:13:05 PM

^ Oh noes, we're only getting paid $80,000 a year!

4/6/2006 3:19:20 PM

Lou Dobbs is creaming his pants right now.

And probably having an aneurysm on live television.

4/6/2006 3:23:40 PM

^^
Maybe for a selected few.

A few years ago Stanford was only paying entry level biology postdocs 26K and I think the average postdoc salary is still in the 30-35K range. Other fields do a bit better. But it is pretty shitty pay for ten years of post-secondary education and the amount of work that went into that education.

Sure, get a faculty position or work for a company and you can make good money with a science Phd. But for a lot of people this doesn't happen until you're well into your thirties or pushing fourty. Meanwhile you have squandered 15-20 years of your life earning a wage probably well below your ability. The point is that becoming a scientist is, from a financial standpoint, a crappy idea if you're an american citizen while still a good enough one to attract foreign scientists to this country.

4/6/2006 3:56:22 PM

Quote :

"Wintermute: A few years ago Stanford was only paying entry level biology postdocs 26K and I think the average postdoc salary is still in the 30-35K range."

I call bullshit, mostly b/c I've earned well past that and I haven't even finished my undergraduate degree...

[Edited on April 6, 2006 at 4:26 PM. Reason : and I'm only 25]

4/6/2006 4:26:19 PM

As a professor of biology?

You're a true renaissance man, TGD. I didn't even know you were into the natural sciences.

4/6/2006 4:33:20 PM

^
no, in a profession that overall pays less across-the-board

find me an uneducated few-years of experience paralegal making more than damn near any professor in any field...

[Edited on April 6, 2006 at 5:29 PM. Reason : ---]

4/6/2006 5:29:23 PM

Tenured professors, sure. But assistant professors? Associate professors?

I don't think it'd be that hard. Check out salary.com on what the average assistant professor (<2yrs exp.) or associate professor (2yrs<, >5yrs exp) makes.

4/6/2006 5:33:35 PM

Well, 27K as miniminum entry level postdoc so my memory doesn't serve me so well. Still, bio postdocs can expect to make only 30-35K at Stanford:
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2001/march14/postdocs.html
This article is 2001 but postdoc pay levels haven't improved that much over the last few years. In my field, physics, I think one generally sees postdocs in the 35-45K range right now. Current statistics are hard to find but this article pegs the average postdoc salary at 38K:
http://insidehighered.com/news/2005/04/06/postdocs
Noting:

Quote :

"And the study notes that when you factor in the number of hours postdocs work in a typical week (51), postdocs’ hourly average wage of $14.90 is only slightly more than that earned by janitors at Harvard."

4/6/2006 5:58:25 PM

^
damn, now that's fucked up.

I guess the easiest way to fix the problem though would be to import a bunch of Asian or Hispanic lawyers, lobbyists & politicians -- we could all be poor together  

4/6/2006 6:01:07 PM

postdocs get terrible pay but have pretty much total intellectual freedom. i'm going to be paid about as much going to grad school in an area they're trying to attract people to than i will as a postdoc.

you don't go into science for money. sure, in 10-15 years you can easily make $100k+ as a PI but it's a long (but rewarding) road.

[Edited on April 6, 2006 at 6:03 PM. Reason : .]

4/6/2006 6:01:52 PM