You might remember I was looking for a low mileage KA to turbo but after talking to a reliable local tuner shop, Project Auto Salon, they told me I would be better off with a SR20DET for the power I was trying to make and my application, daily driver/ weekend racer. I would end up puting the same amount of money in either application to make the same amount of power and they said at least with the SR I won't have such a long down time. Also I may be able to cut some corners and reuse a lot of the parts from the Sr Front Clip ie smic, radiator, fans etc. I just really didn't want to be another one of those common sr swaps, oh well. Let me know what you guys think about the SR vs the KA-T and places that sell reliable front clips. Project Auto Salon can get me one easy and reliable but I'll end up paying like 3600 or more for just the clip.

5/16/2006 12:39:15 PM

someone on here did an rb25 swap a while back... pretty sweet, i wouldnt mind having one.

5/16/2006 12:40:41 PM

Why do you care if the SR20DET is a common swap? It's common because it's easy and the finished package is pretty decent.

Just don't put a golf ball dimple in your oil pan or your car will explode.

5/16/2006 12:54:32 PM

Yeah I saw the thread, I originally wanted to do an RB swap but that was gonna cost out the ass; motorset, motor mounts, custom driveshaft, suspension upgrade for the added weight, brake upgrade to stop added weight. Plus that block was over kill, ~1000 hp on stock internals is more motor than I need for a daily driver. Would have been fun though, 500 hp in a car that weights damn near nothing.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 12:55 PM. Reason : typo]

5/16/2006 12:55:09 PM

better to finish a common swap than talk out your ass about this custom project you're working on and never finish it for whatever reason

5/16/2006 1:03:26 PM

dont getta ding in da oil pan! and i would rather rebuild the ka and know the cond. of it compared to getting a beaten up (possibly) sr. but im not one to talk. i broke mine nad sold it.

5/16/2006 1:07:29 PM

^^ There's nothing wrong with common but being different/unique is fun. Tubo KA are becoming more and more common place but they are still rare in comparison to sr swaps. I give the SR all the respect in the world, it's still a Nissan engine, but unique it is not. And engine failure due to lack of oil is a possible problem but it happens to usdm sr20de too. There a down side to everything. The shop that will do the work will make sure the engines perfect before install. They are one of the, if not the best in the Charlotte area.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 1:15 PM. Reason : typo]

5/16/2006 1:08:06 PM

Quote :

"There's nothing wrong with common but being different/unique is fun."

Of course. But in my experience the majority of ambitious custom projects fall through. People greatly underestimate the amount of time and money it's going to take.

5/16/2006 1:09:59 PM

Quote :

"better to finish a common swap than talk out your ass about this custom project you're working on and never finish it for whatever reason"

The project would be done before I left Charlotte, I don't have time to drive back and forth between here and Raleigh. The down time at the shop is what was the main point, 2 weeks tops or a month or more. I'm not going the garage tuner route, taking it to a shop where cash in hand gets results in a timely manner.

5/16/2006 1:13:54 PM

Quote :

"Just don't put a golf ball dimple in your oil pan or your car will explode."

5/16/2006 1:31:10 PM

http://www.carolinanissans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1124

Get to check out jsquared's quote everything and make 7 page reply skills hah. But it's more a point of view argument. Depends on what you want. If your tuning is good and you're not looking for anything more than a good daily driver, KA-T would probably be your best course of action. Nothing extreme has to be done, you don't have to snatch your engine, unless you're putting in a lower mileage engine, and then you just have to worry about good tuning, which shouldn't be terrible if you're handing the car over to a shop.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 1:39 PM. Reason : asldkjfalsdgas]

5/16/2006 1:37:59 PM

friend of mine turbo'd his KA for about $2500, got most of the parts he needed used. KA parts are abundant and cheap, he bought a backup KA with about 80kmiles for $400. with drag radials his car is in the 12s.

he hasn't had any issues with it other than the initial tuning which he had help with. if it were me, i'd just stick with the KA. i like the extra displacement and cheaper parts.

5/16/2006 1:42:48 PM

the ka motor can be run by a dsm ecu, with more cheap tuning options than you can imagine.

5/16/2006 2:03:02 PM

I was planning on getting most of the parts for my ka-t setup used and that really won't be an option with the sr20. Half the reason I was considering the sr was the out the box readiness of it but patience is a virtue I should acquire. I really don't wanna have to wait for results but if it means I get the setup I want then I may have too. If anyone out there who was able to make a KA-T setup for under $5000 including a rebuild making 250-300 hp on a daily driver, please post or point me in the right direction.

5/16/2006 2:11:57 PM

Quote :

"I missed my Nissan. So I reloaded and shot again 049_w00t.gif just kidding I don't feel like doing math, but it hasn't been on the road since August of '04"

5/16/2006 2:27:12 PM

Compare the KAdeT and SRdet?

you just opened up pandoras box.

Personally I like the KA, my brother is in the process of doing a KA-T setup on his kouki. On paper losing almost 1/2 a litre just looks bad, and the KA has a stronger (heavier) block. Plus in their NA versions the KA can stomp the SR. That being said I think it will be just as easy to find parts for either, SR's are pretty much the norm and KA-T's are stock. Why not go RB20? I have seen some really nice examples (plus you can say you have a skyline engine). Of course on the flipside if you got an SR you could go around quoting "A couple of SR20 motorsets will fetch a premium before racewars"

I would just be scared that you'd get stuck with a crap silvia front clip and the SR would be screwed, but I guess PAS can help you out there.

PS why the hell are you asking on TWW? people here arn't helpful. If you havn't ask on Carolinanissans, 240sx.org (nico), 240sxforums, club240. Keep us all updated on the project-o.

5/16/2006 2:27:23 PM

KA FTW

5/16/2006 2:28:56 PM

You just made the displacement arguement and then recommend a RB20, for shame. The RB20 is a 2 litre, why put in a heavy engine for less displacement and the RB25 is a better buy but both engines fuck up the weight distribution considerably and require the purchase of a better suspension to handle that weight properly.

I'm on all those sites and this arguement has been made a million times. I wanted to get the input of local NC Tuners and car guys and Wolfpackers. Plus its The Wolf Web, the most random forum on the face of the planet. I doubt this is the most out of place thread on here.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 2:49 PM. Reason : typo]

5/16/2006 2:48:27 PM

is there a fix for the oil pan problem with the sr20s..?

from what i understand it's a poor oil pickup design...

5/16/2006 2:57:58 PM

^aight.

5/16/2006 3:00:53 PM

The only fix is constant observation and preventative maintanance. If it's dent, fix it quick. That's about it. They haven't come out with a better oil pickup system yet, I dont think.

5/16/2006 3:06:16 PM

^ i'm pretty sure my friend is on carolinanissans. i'll find out his screenname and you could pm him on there. he can tell you all the ins and outs of getting the job done from the perspective of someone who didn't have much experience before he started.

he didn't rebuild his engine, so i don't know how much extra that would cost. i'm not sure exactly how much power he is making, but it's comfortably in the 300s. he's done a couple track days with it too, so it must be fairly reliable.

5/16/2006 5:25:52 PM

If you want a nice SR setup, I would buy a blown redtop sr, put in a SR20VE oil pump, put on a SR20VE head, put in some SR16VE cams. and boost the shit out of it.

But for a daily driver, i would rather have a turbo ka than turbo sr anyday.

5/16/2006 7:29:10 PM

i did the rb25det swap into an s14... i would really reccomend goin that route... a very tourqey, drivable setup and the reliabilty aspect considering what its capable of it will last many miles at a lower output... you'd have to push the ka or sr harder to get the same power

hit me up if you have any ?s about it

5/16/2006 10:23:24 PM

I've talk to a guy who's doing a KA-T setup and I've got lots of useful info. Lots of parts that will suit my application but will also give me room for more horsepower in the future. I'm building for around 250-300hp but the block will be able to support closer to a ~1000 horsepower range with the swap of the turbo. He also told me to look into the Garret GT30 series of turbo. It's more expensive but will have almost no lag and makes for a good daily driver, are ball bearing turbos designed for lower displacement and can produce a comfortable 30+ psi of boost. I may have to run just the rebuilt motor for a while or bite the bullet and pay $1500 for just the turbo. Just the rebuilt engine will produce close to 220hp at the wheels, the same as a stock SR.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 10:49 PM. Reason : typo]

5/16/2006 10:49:16 PM

I've got a t3/t4 60-1 with a tdo5h hot housing (mitsu flange) that I'll sell for $400. its about the same as a gt30 0.84 without the ballbearing chra

5/17/2006 2:33:07 AM

I found a couple websites selling Garrett GT30 series turbo for a decent price, ~$1,200. I have a new dilemma, which turbo to go with. I could go gt30/40r (3082R) and have a street monster with damn near no lag or go with a bigger gt35 or gt37 and have something more geared for highway driving. The gt35 and 37 aren't that laggy and still spool quicker than old T series turbos with ceramic turbines. I live in Charlotte so decent highway mileage would be nice.

5/17/2006 10:26:30 AM

good luck streeting a stock motor with a gt35r or bigger, especially without a stand alone. the gt35r uses the gt40r compression wheel. thats a lot of air, requiring a lot of fuel, requiring a lot of money to get it there.

5/17/2006 12:44:38 PM

you might wanna stick with a smaller turbo. you're not trying to win any power contests, you don't need to bring the fuckin minigun to the knife fight.

5/17/2006 1:09:07 PM

Quote :

"but the block will be able to support closer to a ~1000 horsepower range with the swap of the turbo"

When you stop dreaming, then start posting again.

5/17/2006 2:22:14 PM

^I was refering to the KA after a full rebuild with these parts:

Wiseco Pistons 9:1 or 8.8:1
Crower Rods
ARP 11mm Head Studs
ARP Main Stud Kit
Clevite Main and Rod Bearings
Fel-Pro Gasket kit
Crower Turbo Cams

This the same block build as the guy building the worlds most power KA, 1200hp. He's got the block to hold up to 1000.

[Edited on May 17, 2006 at 2:57 PM. Reason : forgot to point]

5/17/2006 2:56:49 PM

That makes more sense. The stock crank can handle that kinda power?

5/17/2006 3:16:43 PM

^God no, but the option on cranks is kind of large. Those parts listed are for my application. It's exactly the same except for crank, I don't need one with the kind of power potential he has. The stock crank should support into the 400 hp range

5/17/2006 5:01:07 PM

Once again. Chill with the overkill bro. You're talking daily driver, not the fucking end all beast from hell.

5/17/2006 5:55:25 PM

I dont know how long you plan to run ~300hp but a guy on Zilvia (I think) made 270hp and 290tq at the wheels on a stock KA with full boosting T25 and supporting mods. Budget build

nice and cheap for now

5/17/2006 7:11:07 PM

^ that's exactly what my brother is doing... SSAC mani,Garett T25, OEM silvia piping..shooting for like 230hp.

5/17/2006 9:40:22 PM

I would run stock bottom but where the hell would I find a decent one. Mine has 204K miles and the ones being sold in the forums are like 120-150k range. I wouldn't feel safe boosting a car with that many miles without a rebuild. If I wasn't putting it on the highway and just driving around Charlotte or Raleigh I would definitely leave the bottom end stock for a while. If it broke, oh well fuck it, KA are cheap and a rebuild isn't that hard. But I know the first time I tried to get the fucker to Raleigh or back to Charlottte, something would go and I'd be stuck on the highway without a car. I really don't want to chance it. So better safe than sorry.

5/18/2006 1:50:30 PM

Dude, you're talking about taking used equipment and boosting it past what the factory did in the first place. You better get used to shit being broken.

5/18/2006 1:52:55 PM

Quote :

"Dude, you're talking about taking used equipment and boosting it past what the factory did in the first place. You better get used to shit being broken."

And that's why I'm doing a rebuild, at least then things are less likely to break. Leaving it stock and turboing may work for a while but something's gonna give and I don't want to be in the middle of nowhere when it does. Also the fact that not many companies make parts for the KA, my options are limited to very low or very high . There really isn't any middle ground, I'm either gonna have an engine built for up to 350hp or built for up to 800hp. If I could get away with a block built for up to 500hp then I would be happy, but that's not an option.

5/18/2006 2:37:47 PM

Somehow, i find that extremely hard to believe.

You don't need 500hp anyway. Stop dreaming. Or are you one of those, folks has money and you worked and saved up a lot of cash too and are getting help?

5/18/2006 2:43:52 PM

Believe it, there's stock/oem replacement and then there's the high quality race for the KA no middle grown. Don't believe me, try to find more than 2 companies that make cams for turboed KA or rods. Cranks have a decent market but that's really about it. Stock parts aren't gonna cut it like you said and the heavy duty race shit is overkill. Hell, stock parts will start to go in the mid 300hp range.

No, I don't need 500hp and probably won't make 500 anytime soon but after I graduate this car will be retired, made into a show car or dragster, and replaced by a new daily driver. The numbers would be strickly for those purposes. So I'm trying to plan a head; I don't want to pay the money twice for the same work. I might as well do it now and avoid all that.

And no, my folks don't have money but I work like a dog to save up for what I want. I make decent money and I really don't have a lot of bills to worry about so I enjoy my money.

5/18/2006 3:10:04 PM

middle ground cams would just be like stock s13 cams . but yeah, i see what you are saying

5/18/2006 5:14:13 PM

Can you give us a guaranteed completion date so that we can btt this thread every week until it's done?

5/18/2006 5:44:28 PM

yeah, and I wanna see your car sometime. you going to the "NC drifters" meet next weekend in Matthews?

drifting is alright, but a bunch of CN guys are going...

5/18/2006 7:10:41 PM

Quote :

"Stock parts aren't gonna cut it like you said and the heavy duty race shit is overkill. Hell, stock parts will start to go in the mid 300hp range."

Are you going to run in the mid 300 hp range? Probably fucking not. You admitted as much yourself chief. That said, that build, while overkill, will be beast.

5/18/2006 11:22:52 PM

cough, cough, twin turbo maxima, ahemm, ahemm, cough. Sorry, something in my throat.

5/18/2006 11:34:46 PM

Quote :

"Can you give us a guaranteed completion date so that we can btt this thread every week until it's done?"

I plan to have the build started by HRT Racing around the end June/ early July at the latest. They take 4-6 weeks to complete a build. The turbo setup will take no time to piece together so if all things go as planned I'll have the engine back from them, dropped, turboed by the end of August.

Quote :

"Are you going to run in the mid 300 hp range? Probably fucking not. You admitted as much yourself chief. That said, that build, while overkill, will be beast."

I will hit over 300 hp by this time next year (bigger turbo, better bov, better tuning). 500hp is what I said I would probably not reach yet. Most KA rebuilds done right are beast/overkill, that's what happens when people try to out do SR's (moderation isn't a common idea among tuners). I just don't want to waste money having to go back into the block to change parts that can be changed now. Sure I could get brand X rods for $300 that could hold 350hp and wait to put $689 rods when the need for them comes but that's kind of dumb since that $300 is money wasted on junk. I'd save money in the long run.

Stop focusing on the numbers. The turbo rods and cams are really the only thing in the rebuild that might be considered excessive but new parts and machining is still necessary for a standard oem rebuild: pistons, studs, bearings, rods etc. A standard rebuilt motor is about $2500(parts and labor included), a basic turbo ready built motor is around $3100 (parts and labor included). What I want to do would cost about $3600(parts and labor included). So for $500 in the bottom end I get a block that can support,(not make) 900hp or I could save $500 and have a top off at mid 300hp range because stock rods will start to bend at that point. This is all about potential to build more horsepower not actually making it now. This built motor only makes 220hp tops without a turbo (NA). I could do that and be making more power out the box than a SR. Don't forget the boost is what makes the power the block is just the starting point.

[Edited on May 19, 2006 at 3:43 PM. Reason : Forgot quote]

5/19/2006 3:39:30 PM

hawkers be building their shit on a budget and snapping their crankz. good idea on overkill

5/19/2006 3:52:07 PM

This will never happen by this time next year.

5/19/2006 4:24:45 PM

I think KA's are pretty cool

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