Looking at getting a new laptop...those are the two im considering. Just want to know what people think about the new macbooks. I really like that you can run windows/os 10 on one machine.

6/4/2006 11:31:51 PM

http://www.brentroad.com/message_search.aspx?type=topic§ion=3&searchstring=macbook&username=&usertype=match&sortby=date&sortorder=descending&page=

6/4/2006 11:43:38 PM

Can't really go wrong w/ the new MacBook Pros.

You can have OS X *and* Windows XP on one machine...what more could you ask for? And the resell value of the Apple will always trump a Wintel laptop.

6/5/2006 12:31:38 AM

If you're getting an education discount, you'll get better specs for the money with the T60's and T60p's through the bookstore (and much large discounts off retail, but if you know anyone who actually paid retail for a thinkpad kill them.)

In terms of customer service, prettyness of the machine, weight vs. screen size, and availibilty of OSX the macbook pro wins. Hell, it even has a nice webcam built in and the ilife software trumps anything you'll see ship free on a dell or hp. Keep in mind that Adobe products will run better in windows for the time being anyways though and that you'll have to pay extra for an OEM copy of XP if you don't have access to the MSDNAA anymore.

Anyways, you might just want to sit down and look at both laptops. They've got a full line of T60's and a macbook pro (dual booting with xp and osx) set up at the bookstore. If you decide on the macbook though, wait till at least early july before ordering it because there should be a better education deal worked out directly with state.

6/5/2006 12:37:33 AM

^ And tax-free weekend saves a bunch more as well if you can hold off.

6/5/2006 1:16:08 AM

Quote :

"In terms of customer service, prettyness of the machine, weight vs. screen size, and availibilty of OSX the macbook pro wins. "

True.

And even if IBM/Lenovo built a "perfect" laptop I wouldn't buy it because of their customer service. They have gone out of their way to make me and a few others regret considering a ThinkPad. If you get a ThinkPad, pray that it never has a problem because if it does you are fucked.

6/5/2006 9:22:47 AM

eh, my tennis instructor (at NCSU) had a sweet deal involved with his IBM laptop with regards to customer service

6/5/2006 10:16:42 AM

http://jeffmatthewsisnotmakingthisup.blogspot.com/2006/05/consumer-reports-saysdell-to-miss.html

Quote :

"In laptops, Apple also scored an 82, with Lenovo at 69, Toshiba 57, Dell at 56 and the rest below 55."

In terms of tech support, lenovo scores well above any other pc manufacturer. If you think they're bad, I can only imagine what you'd think of compaq. My point was not that Lenovo support is bad, because comparatively it's extremely good, but that apple support is far ahead of any pc manufacturer.

Quote :

"eh, my tennis instructor (at NCSU) had a sweet deal involved with his IBM laptop with regards to customer service"

Exactly, I've dealt with them over 100 times and have never had a problem dealing with them. Now sure, apple's been BETTER and FASTER and I've never had to be transfered to a different employee on the phone before resolving my problem, but compared to other tech support and customer service lines, lenovo was a dream.

Almost all reviews will follow consumer reports lead in rating Lenovo Thinkpad above all other pc manufacturers for laptop customer service. Exceptions refer mostly to before lenovo aquired thinkpad. For example, "Mobile" gave IBM a D for their service before they sold the devision to lenovo. Lenovo on the other hand has garnered glowing reviews. It's possible your bad experiences were with IBM and not Lenovo.

[Edited on June 5, 2006 at 10:30 AM. Reason : ]

6/5/2006 10:19:22 AM

^ Things might have changed.

When I dealt with IBM a year ago they were very unresponsive and aggravating to deal with.

6/5/2006 11:10:16 AM

This may sway you: Apple just released a new promo - a free iPod nano *or* $179 off another version of iPod (after rebate) w/ the purchase of a new Mac.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=93D19870&nclm=BackToSchool2006

6/5/2006 2:08:57 PM

ive always had great customer service with ibm laptops.

6/5/2006 2:27:22 PM

T60

/thread

6/5/2006 3:20:31 PM

^^^^

Even apple and lenovo, the top rated companies for laptop tech support, still have at least 15% of their customers (more like 30% for lenovo) who are overall not completely satisfied. It's not THAT unlikely that you'll have a couple bad experiences even in a row with any of those companies' tech support services.

6/5/2006 4:44:42 PM

I would also agree with the t60 folks

6/5/2006 8:27:33 PM

i have never been a fan of apples but the ability for the macbook pro's to run XP is pretty damn impressive...especially when coupled with the ability to run OS X. really just comes down to cost for the end user: how much does he want to put out at the outset, etc.

6/5/2006 8:31:35 PM

the mac will hold its value better

mac laptop resale prices are outrageous - a 400Mhz Pismo still costs $300

6/5/2006 8:36:43 PM

macs will also run the most recent programs decently for longer.

6/5/2006 8:40:09 PM

Quote :

"macs will also run the most recent programs decently for longer."

But often have to wait longer to get them.

6/6/2006 1:29:03 AM

Quote :

"Charybdisjim: If you're getting an education discount, you'll get better specs for the money with the T60's and T60p's through the bookstore... In terms of customer service, prettyness of the machine, weight vs. screen size, and availibilty of OSX the macbook pro wins. Hell, it even has a nice webcam built in and the ilife software trumps anything you'll see ship free on a dell or hp."

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. I've never been that big a fan of Apple's laptops, but I love OS X so you'd have to decide which is more important to you (hardware design + price vs OS + software) 

6/6/2006 8:21:04 AM

^^ pretty much only for games

6/6/2006 8:24:25 PM

Well with games it's more of a "never" than "later" issue. I was really thinking more about having to wait for universal binaries right now. After those start coming out (like CS3) that won't be an issue.

6/6/2006 10:22:25 PM

save yourself a couple of hundred bucks, get better specs, and buy a toshiba

6/6/2006 10:36:02 PM

Nothing's better than a Dell...unless you plan to chug that laptop for 3 years after the hardware gets obsolete...in that case, get an Apple.

6/6/2006 10:37:18 PM

CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A CHUG A

6/6/2006 10:38:24 PM

Quote :

"Nothing's better than a Dell"

6/7/2006 12:03:52 AM

pretty much

you can argue all you want.

6/7/2006 12:04:48 AM

Why? That's such an overly broad and patently stupid statement, there's no point arguing with it.

I'm almost convinced you said it like that just to entice some dell-hater into a flame war.

[Edited on June 7, 2006 at 12:13 AM. Reason : ]

6/7/2006 12:10:36 AM

well, people have different concerns.

To me, price is important...

I keep a laptop for about a year after which I get the current fastest spec.

If you get an Apple, you spend like $2000 to get a bare min config that if you plan to do away with in a year only causes economic loss. True, that Apple doesn't do servers and games and other stuff, so I guess you don't need frequent updates to run MS Word or MS Excel.

In the case of PC laptops, brands like Averatec provide the best value, but if you get a bad piece then you're basically screwed because support sucks.

6/7/2006 1:35:43 AM

Toshiba's are garbage. You might get better specs for the $$, but their designs suck (fans on the bottom, flimsy, etc.).

6/7/2006 1:57:47 AM

MACPROs kind of look like rip offs to me

way more expensive than other machines with the same specs

6/7/2006 2:00:58 AM

Quote :

"In the case of PC laptops, brands like Averatec provide the best value, but if you get a bad piece then you're basically screwed because support sucks."

Speaking of not-so-mainstream laptop brands, has anyone heard anything about ASI laptops? I had a guy come into the store today saying he could get one with a 256mb video card, 2 gigs of ram, a 100GB 7200 rpm SATA harddrive, 2.16 ghz core duo, and 1600x1200 resolution screen for 1459 (with xp pro.) I'm pretty sure he was either getting a HUGE discount or was full of shit, but does anyone know if those laptops are any good even? I did some googling for reviews but it's late so I'm giving up and wanted to know if anyone had any personal experience with them.

6/7/2006 2:26:17 AM

well, it's not such a good deal if you think about it.

I got my 17inch Dell laptop with 100GB HDD, a 128MB video card and 512MB RAM for $1100 last year.

Now the comparable config with 1GB RAM and a dual core processor is less than $1100 at Dell.

If you look hard, you could find a coupon.

I just bought 2GB of RAM and the only deficiency in my laptop is the processor (1.6Ghz Centrino).

[Edited on June 7, 2006 at 2:47 AM. Reason : 533Mhz DDR2 200pin SODIMM]

6/7/2006 2:41:41 AM

Quote :

"save yourself a couple of hundred bucks, get better specs, and buy a toshiba"

Correct. Sexiest notebook on the planet too.

http://notebooky.idnes.cz/obrazek/toshiba_portege_m200r_10.jpg

6/8/2006 9:15:37 PM

Quote :

"save yourself a couple of hundred bucks, get better specs, and buy a toshiba"

Unless you're talking about the 17 inch beasts (not really the same category of machine even), the T60's with education pricing and pretty much all the dells provide better specs for the price than the high end toshibas.

6/8/2006 10:10:20 PM

Quote :

"Toshiba's are garbage. You might get better specs for the $$, but their designs suck (fans on the bottom, flimsy, etc.)."

ummm...mine doesn't have any fans on the bottom, and i don't know what you're talking about in terms of "flimsy"...maybe the really OLD models were (i did have one about 6 years ago that was really loose), but the one i have now is absolutely solid (screen hinges are tight, everything is flush, no components are loose)

that said, unless you're using a 5-months-old or newer toshiba and have these complaints, then your argument isn't even from recent experience, and you've already admitted that you can get better specs for the money, so...go toshiba!

^ give me a good example (ACTUAL SPECS and ACTUAL price) and i'll show a better toshiba for less money...i'm not talking about the 17" beasts, either (because like you said, that's a different class of laptop)

\/ i haven't felt a tablet that WASN'T flimsy...toshiba or otherwise (i'm too afraid i'll break them)

[Edited on June 8, 2006 at 10:14 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2006 10:11:11 PM

^^^ in my experience the toshiba m200 is flimsy

i have seen nothing that sets it apart from other tablets in a positive way

^ well i'm comparing it to other tablets. . . have you used a thinkpad x41 tablet? they feel solid.

by flimsy i mean that the toshiba dropped about 4 inches onto my desk and the pivot hinge popped out of the housing and the latch got completely destroyed with parts everywhere, it was like the damn thing exploded. plus, it just doesn't feel "tight" or well constructed, the pieces have a lot of play to them and rattle. even before the little drop.

[Edited on June 8, 2006 at 10:18 PM. Reason : -]

6/8/2006 10:12:45 PM

i admit that the first toshiba i owned several years ago could be considered "flimsy"...a small shake would make the screen wobble back and forth...but i'm currently on an m55 series (bought at less than $1000) and it's rock solid, as have been the past 8 toshibas (3 different models total) that i've bought for our company

6/8/2006 10:24:50 PM

Compare the tecra m3 for 1499 to the t60 (model number 2007-48U) for 1396.

The t60 has a core duo, the tecra a pentium m (both 1.86ghz). The t60 has 667 mhz ddr2 memory, the tecra has 533 mhz ddr2 memory. The t60 has over a 4 hour battery life, the tecra comes in around 3 hours 20 minutes. The only thing the tecra has going for it, besides a higher profit margin for toshiba, is a slightly better graphics card. For the price difference by the way, you could double the ram in the cited thinkpad.

Also, the x41 tablet offered through the bookstore has better specs than the 1899 protege r200 and still costs about the same even after buying an external optical drive. The tablets though do not get nearly the discount the t-series laptops do. Tablets are also a horrible thing to buy if you even want to discuss performance/dollar.

Seriously man, Dell or thinkpads are both cheaper for the same specs or better than those toshibas.

[Edited on June 8, 2006 at 10:27 PM. Reason : ]

6/8/2006 10:25:19 PM

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=337636&pfp=browse&tabtype=ts#moreinfo

toshiba satellite A105-S4014 - $1350

1.83ghz core duo (667mhz bus speed)
1gb ddr2-4200 (533mhz)
120gb sata150 5400rpm hd
15.4-inch widescreen
3.5-hour battery life
6lbs

okay, let's compare it to the t60 you listed, which has (according to http://exactchoice.cnet.com/ProductProfile.aspx?id=5171)

1.83ghz core duo (667mhz bus speed)
512mb ddr2 (667mhz)
60gb sata150 5400rpm hd
14.1-inch widescreen
4-hour battery life
5.8lbs

okay, so the toshiba is nearly $50 less (no rebates), has a larger screen (though only weighing 0.2lbs more), has twice the memory (which is slower, i'll agree), twice the hard drive size and only gets 30 minutes less on the battery

ADDITIONALLY (though this has nothing to do with the laptop), buying it at compusa gets you a 80-hour tivo AND tivo wireless adapter free after rebates

tell me again how toshiba isn't comparable? for $50 less i'll happily take twice the hard drive, twice the memory, and a larger screen...AND i could use a free tivo

[Edited on June 8, 2006 at 10:46 PM. Reason : waying != weighing ...doh!]

6/8/2006 10:45:45 PM

Quote :

"well, people have different concerns. To me, price is important... I keep a laptop for about a year after which I get the current fastest spec. If you get an Apple, you spend like $2000 to get a bare min config that if you plan to do away with in a year only causes economic loss. True, that Apple doesn't do servers and games and other stuff, so I guess you don't need frequent updates to run MS Word or MS Excel. In the case of PC laptops, brands like Averatec provide the best value, but if you get a bad piece then you're basically screwed because support sucks."

As I've shown in another thread, you are hardly getting screwed buying a Mac over a Dell.

An EQUALLY EQUIPPED Dell lined up against a Macbook or Macbook Pro is generally about 5-10% less expensive. And the Dell doesn't have the iLife suite, and you can't run OSX on it. It also isn't going to have the DVI out or tv out, isn't going to have the built in camera.

One thing Macbooks aren't is bare min anything. They only sell them loaded.

6/8/2006 11:06:16 PM

you're absolutely right that they come loaded...BUT...

the camera - how many of you use a webcam? do i want to be forced to pay for something i PROBABLY won't use? no.

ilife suite - i'm sure it's very nice...IF it's something that i'm planning on using my laptop for (for me, personally, it's another useless feature that i'm paying for whether i like it or not)

OSX - another useless thing for me as if i want to run something like osx i'll run kubuntu, which is superior (imo)

dvi/tv out - ummm...i'm pretty sure just about every laptop (even cheap ones) come with a tv-out (usually in the form of s-video or even rca if it's really cheap/old)...the DVI, however, is a plus that i completely agree with

of course it all depends on what you're going to use your laptop for...as i use my laptop for actual work, the features of webcam and ilife suite are useless for me, OSX can be easily replaced, and the dvi is something i can do without for a significantly lower pricetag

6/8/2006 11:20:28 PM

^^^ couple things: he quoted the T60 price wrong (it's 1369)

and the toshiba you list only has a 1-year warranty vs 3-year for the thinkpad

the 15" thinkpad with all the other options identical is the same price as the 14"

the t60 has 64 MB discrete video ram, the toshiba's video ram is shared

but the toshiba does have the DL DVD+-RW drive

[Edited on June 8, 2006 at 11:34 PM. Reason : -]

6/8/2006 11:30:32 PM

The OSX/XP compatibility is overkill anyway. You're going to pick one file format system and stick with it to maximize the hard drive space. You just have the option of running partitions of either flavor.

Maybe I should just chip in when it comes to durability issues.

The Macbook, the Thinkpad, and the Satellite each have a different type of durability weakness. All of them have the potential to be extremely expensive, so it's a good idea to not drop whatever you get.

The Mac has weak screen hinges. The IBM has weak side frame along the keyboard. The first will lose you a screen if it's hit hard or dropped. The second will warp and break the motherboard if you hold it wrong. The brackets for the hinges on Toshiba models are their weak point, and all of these are the folly of technology.

I shouldn't have brought up the M200. Apples and Oranges, I know.

6/8/2006 11:30:39 PM

^^ that price INCLUDES a 3-year warranty? if so, then yeah, the warranty issue falls heavily on ibm/lenovo's side

6/8/2006 11:34:49 PM

Quote :

"An EQUALLY EQUIPPED Dell lined up against a Macbook or Macbook Pro is generally about 5-10% less expensive. And the Dell doesn't have the iLife suite, and you can't run OSX on it. It also isn't going to have the DVI out or tv out, isn't going to have the built in camera. One thing Macbooks aren't is bare min anything. They only sell them loaded. "

I dunno man

My Dell has DVI-digital
17 inch
128MB Video Card
DVD Writer

All for less than $1200

At the same time as I bought my laptop, a comparable Mac (with the ports and graphics etc.) was close to $3000 with an obsolete processor.

and it was only 15 inches.

[Edited on June 8, 2006 at 11:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2006 11:43:23 PM

Quote :

"17 inch"

Yeah, but that's not really a GOOD thing for most people. I sure as hell don't want a behemoth in my backpack. Also, we're not talking about the state of apple vs dell when you bought your beast, but now. We really can't turn back apple's line and make them that obsolete again (though admitedly they were basically dinosaurs in pretty metal clothing.)

Quote :

"^^ that price INCLUDES a 3-year warranty? if so, then yeah, the warranty issue falls heavily on ibm/lenovo's side "

Yeah, and as I was saying, if you were to add the 3 year warranty to the toshiba, the price difference then would more than pay for upgraded ram in a think pad. The toshiba warranty upgrade cost is 175 or so and doubling the ram in the thinkpad there is 68.95 or so. Hell, you could also throw in accidental damage coverage and it'd still be roughly the same price as the toshiba.

Quote :

"5.8lbs"

Check the detailed specs on the department of engineering website, they don't ACTUALLY weigh quite that much even and the 14 inch one is only around 5 lbs

Detailed specs:

http://www.eos.ncsu.edu/soc/purchasing/sbs.htm

Temporary order form/upgrade and accessory list:

http://www.fis.ncsu.edu/ncsubookstores/pdf/computer_order_form.pdf

General info page:

http://www.fis.ncsu.edu/ncsubookstores/ibm_hardware.html

You can also look up NCSU "special" pricing at http://www.dell.com/ncstate I almost bought a desktop off there a while back, but slickdeals can be better. Anyways, if you're thinking "pc laptop" the thinkpads or the dell deals are a pretty good way to go in terms of price. The dell stuff is through dell university and avoids the tech support/customer service fiasco that is dell home. Even though slick deals are going to be cheaper for the dells, the dell university stuff is consitenty well priced (except the bundles, they're old right now.) The thinkpads are pretty heavily discounted and you can get loaners for them.

I'd be interested in talking to a Toshiba sales rep about why they have never tried to set up special pricing and ordering for ncsu students. A decent education discount would make those satellites pretty tempting.



[Edited on June 9, 2006 at 1:40 AM. Reason : ]

6/9/2006 1:25:06 AM

[Edited on June 9, 2006 at 1:31 AM. Reason : doubleposted]

6/9/2006 1:31:42 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, but that's not really a GOOD thing for most people. I sure as hell don't want a behemoth in my backpack. Also, we're not talking about the state of apple vs dell when you bought your beast, but now. We really can't turn back apple's line and make them that obsolete again (though admitedly they were basically dinosaurs in pretty metal clothing.) "

I don't get your post. Are you saying Apple doesn't make 17inch laptops? Or, are you saying 17inch laptops are cheaper than 15inch laptops? Or are you saying Apple prices their laptops on the very expensive side because 17 inch laptops are not really a "GOOD" thing for most people?

6/9/2006 11:00:44 AM

Gargs, you can't compare your purchase to pre-Macbook Apple laptops.

I'm talking about NEW Dell versus NEW Apple, NOW, not when you purchased.

What the best deal was a year ago is completely irrelevent.

And they are very very similarly priced.

Quote :

"you're absolutely right that they come loaded...BUT... the camera - how many of you use a webcam? do i want to be forced to pay for something i PROBABLY won't use? no. ilife suite - i'm sure it's very nice...IF it's something that i'm planning on using my laptop for (for me, personally, it's another useless feature that i'm paying for whether i like it or not) OSX - another useless thing for me as if i want to run something like osx i'll run kubuntu, which is superior (imo) dvi/tv out - ummm...i'm pretty sure just about every laptop (even cheap ones) come with a tv-out (usually in the form of s-video or even rca if it's really cheap/old)...the DVI, however, is a plus that i completely agree with of course it all depends on what you're going to use your laptop for...as i use my laptop for actual work, the features of webcam and ilife suite are useless for me, OSX can be easily replaced, and the dvi is something i can do without for a significantly lower pricetag"

You are a dumbass. Through and through a fucking dumbass. You buy an Apple to get everything. If you want some barebones stripped shit, get a Dell.

To answer your stupid points. 1) MANY people buy and use webcams. Maybe there's a reason why every damn chat app has video chat now. Just because YOU don't use something doesn't make it stupid.
2) You apparently have no fucking clue what iLife is. It's an incredible set of value added applications.
3) You just compared OSX to kubuntu and found the latter better? You just lost any credibility you ever had, which wasn't much. OSX is a vastly superior CONSUMER DESKTOP OS.
4) The Comparable 15" Dell Inspiron does not have tv out. Which is what I am comparing to here. Way to pay attention
5) You obviously aren't the target market for a Macbook. Way to state the obvious and waste more of everyone's time. Jesus christ.

6/9/2006 11:23:57 AM

What's the target market for a Mac?

I know it's not

gamers
geeks
Software developers

6/9/2006 11:26:03 AM