Quote :

"Activists supporting the parents who lost their daughter in 2003 say that the company sells machinery to the Israeli army in violation of its corporate accountability pledge and knowing full well that the equipment will be used for the destruction of Palestinian homes and farms."

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33619

How do you feel about corporate accountability being pushed aside to accommodate American Zionist interests in the Israeli war against Palestine?

6/18/2006 11:22:51 AM

I blame teh 3d0|\/|1†3s

6/18/2006 12:09:43 PM

you can't say "zionist" in soap box, unless you can verify that you seriously hate jewish people

[Edited on June 18, 2006 at 12:15 PM. Reason : therre must be hate in your heart for this not to be trolling]

6/18/2006 12:15:05 PM

Let's focus on what's germane, thanks. This raises an important question: Should private businesses in the United States be held accountable for the foreseeable consequences of their actions overseas? More importantly, if our federal government doesn't find Caterpillar liable for the military use of their agricultural vehicles against Palestine, does that suggest Zionist sympathy?

6/18/2006 1:23:47 PM

I don't think they should be held accountable. Stretching the issuse here, just have a look at "arms dealers". After something is "out of our hands" we have no control as to what happens with it. An example from the past; people have taken(our donated) regular support/rescue choppers, and turned them into gun-ships.

So weaponized bulldozers are no different from weaponized from weaponized hueys'

No no no, then again. The U.S would know just what the hell Israel was using bulldozers for!!!This situation is an execption to everything I just said. Hell yeah, caterpillar should be held accountable!!That particular situation is a cryin shame.

[Edited on June 18, 2006 at 1:53 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2006 1:42:42 PM

i blame capitalism for this thread

6/18/2006 5:26:09 PM

Does it seriously not bother any of you that the United States government has not investigated this issue? We're talking about an American business's complicity in acts of war against a democratic nation, acts of war committed by a state whose very right to exist has been questioned by many.

6/18/2006 5:48:39 PM

there's a long history of this sort of thing

it's hard to make companies liable when governments use company's non-military equipement for dubious purposes



[Edited on June 18, 2006 at 6:12 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2006 6:12:28 PM

It's certainly not hard to hold them liable when they know full well the use Israel is putting their products to.

6/18/2006 6:16:27 PM

honestly

you can't not sell bulldozers to companies, governments, whatever...

it's basic construction (destruction) equipment

...

i mean, talking about culpable, how about we get the US to stop giving free monies to the Israelis

that would be nice

...

or better yet, put their nuclear power/weapons program under the jurisdiction of the IAEA

[Edited on June 18, 2006 at 6:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2006 6:19:08 PM

Now we're talking. I mean, do we not support the democratic nation of Palestine's right to peace and freedom from religious persecution?

6/18/2006 6:22:10 PM

well

i actually have a hard time giving a rat's ass about any country in that region

but isreal is an albatros around our neck

they need to learn to stand on their own

6/18/2006 6:24:07 PM

You might say they're a yehab, and we're doing them some kind of twisted mitzvah.

[Edited on June 18, 2006 at 6:29 PM. Reason : ,,,]

6/18/2006 6:29:42 PM

why you gonna make me look shit up

that ain't cool

...

i know the second word though

[Edited on June 18, 2006 at 6:30 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2006 6:30:10 PM

I'd rather israel be held responsible for it's fucked up actions, rather than holding CAT responsible for israels fucked up actions

6/18/2006 6:35:31 PM

Oh. Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. And hey, maybe that explains why the U.S. isn't looking into it.

6/18/2006 6:38:39 PM

But then it doesn't explain why we aren't breaking their balls all the time. :/

6/18/2006 7:17:30 PM

\message_topic.aspx?topic=411367

6/18/2006 7:17:54 PM

boycutt CATERPILLER

6/18/2006 7:36:33 PM

or even boycott

6/18/2006 7:41:40 PM

If we stopped supporting israle they might go crazy and lay waste to about half of the middle east.

6/19/2006 7:28:20 AM

Quote :

"How do you feel about corporate accountability being pushed aside to accommodate American Zionist interests in the Israeli war against Palestine?"

What accountability? If I am not accountable for you when I sell you a gun or fertilizer or ammonium nitrate then why the fuck should I be held accountable for selling a bulldozer?

More to the point, Israel is not a resource rich nation. They make their own weapons, to be sure, but I doubt the possess all the chemical components necessary to make the explosives. Shouldn't you be going after the companies which sell this?

These same companies sell chemicals to the manufacturers of U.S. weapons, should they be held accountable whenever a U.S. bomb strays and kills some civilians?

This is an infantile argument. You cannot punish Israel so you want to punish their friends, regardless of how tenuous the connection.

6/19/2006 8:55:41 AM

i dont think CAT should be held responsible for thier clients actions. Thats like blaming ford or whoever for when that guy drove his car into the pit at chapel hill

6/19/2006 11:19:44 AM

yeah, thats like blaming gun companies when a person shoots somebody

6/19/2006 11:38:04 AM

So if Jeffrey Dahmer, a known murderer and cannibal, were still alive and rolled up into Williams-Sonoma looking to buy a butcher knife and I sold him one, I wouldn't be accountable for what he did with it even though I had a reason to suspect criminal activity?

[Edited on June 19, 2006 at 11:42 AM. Reason : IT'S CALLED AIDING AND ABETTING]

6/19/2006 11:42:47 AM

so if i get a job at home depot and you come into home depot and buy a chainsaw and you give me money and i give you a chainsaw and a receipt, and you go out and do a chainsaw massacre, do the victims families sue home depot for $800,000,000?

IT'S CALLED FUCK THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND FUCK LAWYERS

6/19/2006 11:48:46 AM

the law already states that if a clerk suspects that someone is drunk, they are not allowed to sell them alcohol.

incontrovertible proof that caterpillar is supporting the zionist edomites

6/19/2006 12:57:47 PM

Quote :

"you can't say "zionist" in soap box, unless you can verify that you seriously hate jewish people"

hello... there is a difference between zionists and jews.

not all jews are zionists.

and

not all zionists are jews.

i hate all zionists, as should any peace-loving human being, as zionism is a racist, exclusivist ideology.

6/19/2006 3:34:05 PM

Quote :

"not all jews are zionists. and not all zionists are jews."

that may very well be true, but as we all know, all jews are edomites and all edomites are zionists!

6/19/2006 4:14:06 PM

you guys are nothing but h8ers

6/19/2006 4:55:11 PM

Quote :

"i hate all zionists, as should any peace-loving human being, as zionism is a racist, exclusivist ideology."

Modern-day Islam as practiced in the middle east is a racist, exclusivist ideology. Do you hate all muslims, too?

6/19/2006 7:05:12 PM

Quote :

"Does it seriously not bother any of you that the United States government has not investigated this issue? We're talking about an American business's complicity in acts of war against a democratic nation, acts of war committed by a state whose very right to exist has been questioned by many."

Caterpillar sells its machines exclusively through dealerships. It'd make more sense to go after whatever dealer sells to the Israelis than to go after Caterpillar, and even then less sense than going after the Israelis.

6/20/2006 3:00:52 PM

Quote :

"Does it seriously not bother any of you that the United States government has not investigated this issue? We're talking about an American business's complicity in acts of war against a democratic nation, acts of war committed by a state whose very right to exist has been questioned by many."

Isn't our government complicit in acts of war against Palestine? Why would they investigate this?

6/20/2006 3:24:57 PM

This would be like going after Cadillac for rapper/drug violence.

CAT engineers and makes the machines. Other than tweaking them to comply with laws in different states (and countries I assume), they sell to dealers, not directly to the people that use the machines.

6/20/2006 4:00:16 PM

guns dont kill people, people kill people

6/20/2006 4:02:38 PM

6/20/2006 9:47:43 PM

Quote :

"Modern-day Islam as practiced in the middle east is a racist, exclusivist ideology. "

Hating non-believers is not racist, it's just stupid, and you don't know your history if you think it's a modern-day thing.

Muslims have hated or at least been intolerant of views from non-muslims (infidels) for hundreds of years. It just so happens that they had a successful beginning (tricked themselves into thinking it was fundamentally because of islam), coasted for a few centuries, then fell behind as the rest of the world had revelations that allowed them to achieve modernity.

6/20/2006 11:14:02 PM

I think that Colgate should be held accountable for murder because prisoners use their toothbrushes to make shanks and kill people.

6/20/2006 11:26:16 PM

Quote :

"It's certainly not hard to hold them liable when they know full well the use Israel is putting their products to."

6/21/2006 8:16:10 AM

Yeah, maybe they should also hold the companies accountable that sold Caterpillar the raw materials to make the bulldozers... seeing how they knew that Caterpillar was going to sell bulldozers to Israelis and Caterpillar knew that the Israelis would weaponize them.

6/21/2006 8:34:45 AM

But wait! Caterpillar equipment was probably used to mine that raw material! It's suddenly their fault again!

This is one of the weakest and most childish arguments I've heard in a while, and I'm not totally convinced Frosh isn't just trolling.

6/21/2006 8:38:25 AM

This is a no-brainer thread.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
-Thomas Jefferson

6/21/2006 10:37:18 AM

Quote :

"jbtilley: "

 

6/21/2006 11:21:53 AM

thats pretty goddamn funny

6/21/2006 11:34:30 AM

hey caterpillar

thanks for the paycheck



honestly anyone who believes we sell machines to the israeli army KNOWING FULL WELL BLAH BLAH BLAH is fucking retarded

caterpillar crosses every t and dots every i

plz to do more research before making yourself look ignorant

you can start with the CEOs response to this & our business model



what do you want? for caterpillar to stop making machines JUST IN CASE someone might get ahold of them and use them to fuck peoples lives up?

dont like caterpillar? then stop driving on roads, using airports and by the way the 18 wheelers that haul the shit you use everyday probably use caterpillar engines, so stop consuming things too

oh and while you're at it-- forget about your precious electricity when the power goes out because you've probably benefitted from a caterpillar generator too

and that mining equipment we build probably helped extract the material to built your computer too, so go ahead and throw that away too



[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 12:30 PM. Reason : kjhjf]

6/22/2006 12:28:03 PM

You're right. One's good works in the past excuse present and future crimes. How silly of me.

6/22/2006 12:39:17 PM

Let's tackle real problems here folks, not surreal ones.

6/22/2006 12:42:54 PM

you can believe whatever you want to believe

but if you're going to hate on the company then dont support it by using the things it has produced

k thx

[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 12:43 PM. Reason : oh fuck walmart--- brb gotta run to walmart to get some stuff]

6/22/2006 12:43:22 PM

Your argument is even more specious than my surprisingly successful trolling. I guess what they say is true: Girls really aren't very good at arguing.

6/22/2006 12:46:07 PM

aw so he finally admits to trolling

thank god, i was really hoping no one was that stupid

6/22/2006 12:47:10 PM