there is a pro hezbollah rally in san fran-sicko today, explain this too me. the only sane rational democacy in the region and the libs gotta hate it....but a terrorist group, hey lets party

8/12/2006 4:59:36 PM

steal peoples land, drive them from their country, bulldoze thier houses, kill their children, and then shrug and say "what? we were here first. you know. between 1100 BCE and 120 AD."

8/12/2006 5:04:13 PM

well isnt the whole, i dont know, creation of the state the UNs fault back in 1948. i mean ya cant blame them for that. as for stealing land, most if it was legally won in wars they won and didnt start

8/12/2006 5:06:14 PM

wow. just... wow.

i dont know whats more stunning. youre ignorance, or your capability to just make up stuff to fill in your blanks.

8/12/2006 5:10:27 PM

ok answer this

did the UN not create israel in 1948

did israel not take the sanai, gaza and golan heights in various wars in which they won and didnt start

Quote :

"bulldoze thier houses, kill their children, and then shrug and say "what? we were here first"

same could be said about the terrorists in hezbollah

[Edited on August 12, 2006 at 5:16 PM. Reason : .]

8/12/2006 5:13:37 PM

The mass murdering of civilians bothers me.

8/12/2006 5:28:48 PM

Because liberals hate all war.

It's blanket statement hour, post your fav!

8/12/2006 5:36:06 PM

Why do conservatives love death

8/12/2006 5:45:13 PM

My problem with Israel is entirely over the racist foundings of the state and the systematic Raubwirtschaft it is currently waging.

8/12/2006 5:53:40 PM

gesundheit.

8/12/2006 6:05:51 PM

Quote :

"but a terrorist group, hey lets party"

Hassan is a total Bogart. I kept having to tell him to pass that shit yo.

8/12/2006 6:27:04 PM

Quote :

"between 1100 BCE and 120 AD."

um, if you're gonna cut christ out of "BC" then you might wanna cut the "year of our lord" shit also

8/12/2006 6:35:46 PM

i think the more telling question is "why do conservatives love israel?"

8/12/2006 6:39:16 PM

^^ good point

i realized that after i posted, but decided against correcting it since all the bible thumpers here don't know what the fuck CE means.

8/12/2006 7:48:09 PM

I don't like Israel because the Jews are God's chosen people and I don't like God

or your freedom

8/12/2006 8:02:14 PM

8/12/2006 9:17:37 PM

i see by your dodging the questions i posed earlier, you know i am correct

8/13/2006 12:37:06 AM

steal peoples land, drive them from their [property], bulldoze thier houses, kill their children, and then shrug and say "what? we are the government. We have eminent domain over your property and military style policerights to use against any innocent person either suspected or being a drug dealer or suspected of having an address similar to a drug dealer."

8/13/2006 1:01:43 AM

sometimes i Libertarians.

8/13/2006 1:14:44 AM

Quote :

"well isnt the whole, i dont know, creation of the state the UNs fault back in 1948. i mean ya cant blame them for that."

Can we blame them for the terrorist attacks that scared the international community into giving them a state?

Quote :

"as for stealing land, most if it was legally won in wars they won and didnt start"

How exactly does one "legally" win land in wars?

8/13/2006 1:56:48 AM

I'm gonna introduce a new concept:

I really don't know much detail about the Arab-Isreali conflict from a historical perspective, so I am not going to comment. I'll sit back and observe and see if I can learn anything.

8/13/2006 2:19:13 AM

Here's a pretty good summary:

Some jews decide they want to make their own homeland in israel, the Ottomans prevent large immigration to the area by foreign peoples. WW1 happens, the ottoman empire is dissolved, still within the declining days of imperialism, the british take control of palestine. The british, unaware of the volatility of this area, allow a large influx of jews. These jews then begin to launch terrorist attacks against the british in order to scare them out of the region so they can steal the land for the local people, who they launch terrorist attacks against as well to scare them away from their homes to further expand their own jewish settlements. England cut their losses and turned it over to the UN.

Basically the problem here was completely caused by the fall of the ottoman empire. They had a policy against massive immigration which allowed them to avoid this problem completely.

8/13/2006 2:46:40 AM

Quote :

"How exactly does one "legally" win land in wars?"

if some one attacks you and you kick their ass in a war and take their territory, id say its pretty fair game. also, i will concede the point that israel did some seedy shit to get england out however, the UN still was responsible for the final decision.

8/13/2006 2:55:32 AM

^thats imperialism, b

8/13/2006 3:00:05 AM

Quote :

"if some one attacks you and you kick their ass in a war and take their territory, id say its pretty fair game."

I'd say that's not a very respectable practice anymore, and couldn't by any means be described as "legal".

Quote :

"also, i will concede the point that israel did some seedy shit to get england out however"

Let's call this "seedy shit" what it really is, terrorism. They attacked british political targets in a violent means to the ends they wanted. They also attacked innocent civilians for the exact same reasons.

Quote :

"the UN still was responsible for the final decision."

That in no way implies that it was right, or even a good thing to do.

[Edited on August 13, 2006 at 3:08 AM. Reason : ]

8/13/2006 3:07:27 AM

Quote :

"Basically the problem here was completely caused by the fall of the ottoman empire."

so in other words, it was Bill Clinton's fault. he had 8 years to rectify the Ottoman situation, and what did he do? nothing! smoke fucking cigars, thats all. and i mean fucking cigars

8/13/2006 3:16:36 AM

y'all can just copy and paste my post

everything I said in it y'all are just repeating but in "lamemans" terms

8/13/2006 3:31:45 AM

I have a tough time buying that this is the fault of the Ottoman Empire. We can blame nationalism, WWI, the UN, etc., but I don't think that an empire that successfully bridged Orthodoxy, Judaism, and Islam for 300 years. Jews were an important part of the empire, Christians were in the Janissary Corps., and the Sultan made himself Caliph of Islam.

I think the problem is that we aren't emulating the success of the Ottoman Empire. Of course, I am inherently biased, but I still think there are some legitimate points in there somewhere.

8/13/2006 3:46:55 AM

throw the jew down the well...

so my country can be free?

8/13/2006 3:52:08 AM

So, people living in California are having a pro Hezbollah rally because Israel took their land away from them... classic.

8/13/2006 9:21:45 AM

That's an irony that most people in the world cannot escape, try as they might.

8/13/2006 9:26:54 AM

despite its controversial origins, id say israel is one of the few sane, rational and allied players the US has in the middle east. therefore it makes sense for us as a country to support them. thas my $00.02

8/13/2006 10:20:32 AM

Quote :

"if some one attacks you and you kick their ass in a war and take their territory, id say its pretty fair game.""

that would be an occupying power and occupation does not transfer sovereignty.

Quote :

""How exactly does one "legally" win land in wars?""

however ceding territory as part of a peace treaty is accepted in international law.

8/13/2006 12:37:33 PM

i wonder if american indians starting attacking random places in the country or a mexican group started attacking texas and california if they would be seen as freedom fighters or terrorists.


i also wonder how people would react if hte govm said that since mexicans are being persecuted in so much of the country and there are already so many in NC, we should just give them NC as their own state.

8/13/2006 1:23:52 PM

if you cannot tell the difference between the two then you are a retard

8/13/2006 1:50:18 PM

This is the answer that I agree with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wdwk1dp-uU

8/13/2006 3:22:15 PM

I keep hearing the words: "occupation", "land", "invade", "soil", "forced out", "border", etc... Seems like all Israel and Lebanon can think about is what belongs to who. And who is right or who is wrong.

To me, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. In the famous words of Pocahontas :

Quote :

"You think I'm an ignorant savage And you've been so many places I guess it must be so But still I cannot see If the savage one is me Now can there be so much that you don't know? You don't know ... You think you own whatever land you land on The Earth is just a dead thing you can claim But I know every rock and tree and creature Has a life, has a spirit, has a name You think the only people who are people Are the people who look and think like you But if you walk the footsteps of a stranger You'll learn things you never knew you never knew Have you ever heard the wolf cry to the blue corn moon Or asked the grinning bobcat why he grinned? Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains? Can you paint with all the colors of the wind? Can you paint with all the colors of the wind? Come run the hidden pine trails of the forest Come taste the sunsweet berries of the Earth Come roll in all the riches all around you And for once, never wonder what they're worth The rainstorm and the river are my brothers The heron and the otter are my friends And we are all connected to each other In a circle, in a hoop that never ends How high will the sycamore grow? If you cut it down, then you'll never know And you'll never hear the wolf cry to the blue corn moon For whether we are white or copper skinned We need to sing with all the voices of the mountains We need to paint with all the colors of the wind You can own the Earth and still All you'll own is Earth until You can paint with all the colors of the wind "

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TkV-of_eN2w

If we don't listen to Pocahontas, we'll all end up under a pile of nuclear waste.

[/sarcasm + a pinch of truth]

8/13/2006 3:52:51 PM

yeah thats good

8/13/2006 4:11:01 PM

Quote :

"so in other words, it was Bill Clinton's fault. he had 8 years to rectify the Ottoman situation"

I hope you were joking, because the ottoman empire fell before clinton was even born.

Quote :

"I have a tough time buying that this is the fault of the Ottoman Empire. We can blame nationalism, WWI, the UN, etc., but I don't think that an empire that successfully bridged Orthodoxy, Judaism, and Islam for 300 years. Jews were an important part of the empire, Christians were in the Janissary Corps., and the Sultan made himself Caliph of Islam."

You misunderstood me. I was not trying to blame this on the ottomans themselves, the problem was that their empire declined and that they could no longer regulated the area and keep it peaceful. I wasn't blaming this situation on the existence of ottoman presence, I was blaming it on the lack of ottoman presence.

Quote :

"I think the problem is that we aren't emulating the success of the Ottoman Empire."

You are correct, had the british managed the area as the ottomans did, this problem would have never started.

Quote :

"despite its controversial origins, id say israel is one of the few sane, rational and allied players the US has in the middle east"

You're kidding right? They are well armed and extremely violent, they are the reason for all this shit we have.

[Edited on August 13, 2006 at 8:26 PM. Reason : ]

8/13/2006 8:26:28 PM

ISREAL IS THE WORST CITY IN EUROPE

8/13/2006 8:35:50 PM

wait for it..............

8/13/2006 11:27:46 PM

i have been to israel, its a pretty place.

8/13/2006 11:41:21 PM

so? lots of people like the city of Israel.

8/13/2006 11:43:27 PM

its a nice European city.

8/13/2006 11:45:07 PM

Yep.

Its true.

Liberals DO hate America.

8/14/2006 12:12:03 AM

They love criminals and hate when decent people fight back.

That's why they hate concealed carry self-defense laws.

That's why they hate Israel and love Hezbollah and Hamas.

8/14/2006 2:03:34 AM

Then explain why liberals support corporate responsibility.

8/14/2006 2:08:05 AM

Kris,

thanks for clearing up my last post.

I have to agree that a lot of this came from people not being forward thinking about the situation in this region. The goal after WWI was securing enough nation-states loyal to the West that the flow of oil would never be a problem. Now, not only is oil dictating the world we live in, but extremism on all sides is forcing the rational to make irrational decisions.

The scary thing about this situation is that we brought it upon ourselves but we can't find a way out. The solution isn't mass murder, nor is it arbitrary peace deals that fail to resolve the issues at hand. Are feelings going to get hurt? Yes, but let's hurt feelings today for a better tomorrow. Whoever is most willing to do this is the least culpable in this situation I think.

8/14/2006 4:24:04 PM