Quote :

"Only a decade ago, as governor of Virginia, Allen personally initiated an association with the Council of Conservative Citizens, the successor organization to the segregationist White Citizens Council and among the largest white supremacist groups. In 1996, when Governor Allen entered the Washington Hilton Hotel to attend the Conservative Political Action Conference, an annual gathering of conservative movement organizations, he strode to a booth at the entrance of the exhibition hall festooned with two large Confederate flags--a booth operated by the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), at the time a co-sponsor of CPAC. After speaking with CCC founder and former White Citizens Council organizer Gordon Lee Baum and two of his cohorts, Allen suggested that they pose for a photograph with then-National Rifle Association spokesman and actor Charlton Heston. The photo appeared in the Summer 1996 issue of the CCC's newsletter, the Citizens Informer. According to Baum, Allen had not naively stumbled into a chance meeting with unfamiliar people. He knew exactly who and what the CCC was about and, from Baum's point of view, was engaged in a straightforward political transaction. "It helped us as much as it helped him," Baum told me. "We got our bona fides." And so did Allen. Descended from the White Citizens' Councils that battled integration in the Jim Crow South, the CCC is designated a "hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law Center. In its "Statement of Principles," the CCC declares, "We also oppose all efforts to mix the races of mankind, to promote non-white races over the European-American people through so-called "affirmative action" and similar measures, to destroy or denigrate the European-American heritage, including the heritage of the Southern people, and to force the integration of the races." The CCC has hosted several conservative Republican legislators at its conferences, including former Representative Bob Barr of Georgia and Senator Trent Lott of Mississippi. But mostly it has been a source of embarrassment to Republicans hoping to move their party beyond its race-baiting image. Former Reagan speechwriter and conservative pundit Peggy Noonan pithily declared that anyone involved with the CCC "does not deserve to be in a leadership position in America." "

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20060911&s=george_allen

8/30/2006 12:05:19 PM

and?

8/30/2006 12:09:26 PM

I hope the citizens of Virginia vote him out of office in November.

[Edited on August 30, 2006 at 12:31 PM. Reason : onoz!]

8/30/2006 12:11:43 PM

Wait. Who's from SC?

8/30/2006 12:18:46 PM

that will be hard unless they change laws to allow citizens of south carolina to vote for virginia senators.

8/30/2006 12:19:31 PM

^ahahaha pwnt

8/30/2006 12:20:54 PM

another brilliant pryderi thread

8/30/2006 12:27:27 PM

I guess if Iraq wants to elect Islamo-fascists, Virginia can elect Klansmen.

8/30/2006 12:31:53 PM

man I hope New York doesn't re-elect Governor Schwarzenegger

also David Duke (former Klansman) ran for some seat maybe ~10 years ago...he lost

8/30/2006 12:32:39 PM

i thought this thread was about robert byrd

8/30/2006 12:39:12 PM

omg i thought it was about salisburyboy

8/30/2006 12:42:01 PM

I thought it was about someone who's the opposite of my political affiliation

8/30/2006 12:45:43 PM

You know, with just a little fixing, I can get being this sentiment:

"We also oppose all efforts to mix the races of mankind,"
This can be taken in a good way. Since it is being spoken by a man of Government I hope he meant to be against efforts of Government to mix the races, which makes sense if you believe the Government should do very little, as I do.

"to promote non-white races over the European-American people through so-called "affirmative action" and similar measures,"
All people should be treated equally by their Government which includes European peoples too, which makes "affirmative action" wrong.

"to destroy or denigrate the European-American heritage, including the heritage of the Southern people,"
No one should have their heritage denigrated, particularly by their own Government.

"and to force the integration of the races."
As a libertarian, I am against Government initiating force for most reasons, even something as silly as integrating the races, since they are integrating just fine all by themselves.

8/30/2006 1:07:23 PM

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey what about Robert Byrd?























Oh that's right, he's a democrat and immune from these kinds of attacks.

8/30/2006 1:13:12 PM

or maybe that's not what the thread is about.

8/30/2006 1:13:49 PM

Nope, its not. This is about attacking 1 specific senator who may be running for president for even associating with a group of racists

Rather than, you know, being a card-carying Klansman

8/30/2006 1:24:40 PM

George Allen's campaign for Governor was the first campaign I ever worked on, and I've always considered him a decent and honorable guy. Was looking forward to him running for President.

But in the last week his chances have pretty much approached -0- I think...

8/30/2006 2:06:26 PM

we all know that only conservatives can be the racists.

maybe if allen promised to raise taxes to "help the poor" and was against the war, liberals would give him a free ride, like they do to robert byrd.

nevermind that liberal policies of quotas and welfare are racist in the first place.

8/30/2006 2:28:56 PM

What the fuck is all this Robert Byrd shit?

Racism is morally repugnant. Quit pretending nobody who agrees with liberals will ever point that out. The man was a fucking Klansman, in West Virginia, in the 40s--well before the modern civil rights movement had any momentum, and two decades before the Great Society--and has been in Congress for half a century. I wouldn't doubt he's still a racist deep down, too. The prejudices we form in youth can sometimes be impossible to overcome.

But that's no reason for him to remain a Senator. I blame the citizens of WV more for that than I blame him.

If you really want to cut to the heart of the matter, you'd make a thread about term limits so that officials harboring once culturally accepted prejudices don't become the dinosaurs of our political system like this.

Now that Robert Byrd's been addressed.

Why the hell is George Allen, who doesn't have Byrd's excuse, posing in a photo with four other guys who's current cultural prejudices reflect the same era?

[Edited on August 30, 2006 at 6:28 PM. Reason : OMF ALLEN = LINCOLN]

8/30/2006 6:27:34 PM

why is this a problem 10 years after the fact?

8/30/2006 6:38:49 PM

10 years wasn't that long ago. It feels like yesterday to me.

8/30/2006 7:22:10 PM

Quote :

"Why the hell is George Allen, who doesn't have Byrd's excuse, posing in a photo with four other guys who's current cultural prejudices reflect the same era?"

A good question, to be sure. I wonder, how much do senators really know about the groups they are meeting at any given time? Now, for those speaking at the group's conferences, they surely should do the research, but what about when you're walking through some place and you're introduced to the leadership of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a group name that isn't directly racist?

I'm not saying this is true, but I'm asking someone to assess how likely it is to meet and greet people who's agenda you don't even really know.

8/30/2006 9:02:02 PM

Byrd wasn't just any old Klansman, he was the freakin Grand Dragon of WV.

So, in everyone's eyes here, being Grand Dragon of the KKK is OK, but a happenstance meeting with a group of people with no obvious ties to racism in their name isn't.

They may both be guilty of hate and total assholes, but you people are really reaching here. A decade ago, the rebel flag was still flying over some state capitals, so the fact that he walked by a couple of rebel flags, during that time, probably wasn't cause to pause.



[Edited on August 30, 2006 at 10:40 PM. Reason : http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/06/30/scflag.01/]

8/30/2006 10:35:56 PM

Quote :

"10 years wasn't that long ago. It feels like yesterday to me."

"Macaca" was just a couple of weeks ago.
http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=426600&page=1#9171808
http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=426600&page=1#9169794

8/30/2006 11:21:37 PM

most conservatives are at least a little racist

8/30/2006 11:24:40 PM

okkk...

8/30/2006 11:33:42 PM

^its a fact. there have been many studies on this.

8/31/2006 12:08:02 AM

If he promised to be "tolerant," as so many liberals claim to be, Senator Allen might have a chance. Tolerant of anyone EXCEPT those who would dare disagree with liberals’ failed ideas and costly government programs.

And if Allen had "feelings / wo-o-o feelings," he might have a chance. But. . .but. . .we, the liberals, don't have feelings for those fucking evil conservatives. God bless everyone EXCEPT the fucking conservatives, amen. No, wait, we're liberal secular humanists--we don't believe in God. (NB: You don’t believe until you're in a foxhole.)

This'll fix everything: We get Allen to equally redistribute all the wealth, centralize governmental control, and nationalize all the land and industries. That's the ticket! That'll make everything right EXCEPT economic incentives, production levels, and control of one's own destiny. Hey, whatever it takes, right?

8/31/2006 3:08:45 AM

Quote :

"^its a fact. there have been many studies on this."

Oh, I'm sure there have been non-blind studies done by people with their own agendas. This is why sociology is not really science. I've yet to read a sociology paper that didn't have some type of agenda. They need to take their science as seriously as psychologists do.


By the way Josh####s, what studies are you talking about. I'd like to pick them apart for methods/samples one by one.

8/31/2006 7:40:38 AM

Quote :

"Sputter: So, in everyone's eyes here, being Grand Dragon of the KKK is OK, but a happenstance meeting with a group of people with no obvious ties to racism in their name isn't."

I could swear I made my post in English.

Please go back and reread it because somehow you seem to have missed the meaning behind it entirely.

Quote :

"bgmims: I wonder, how much do senators really know about the groups they are meeting at any given time?"

Probably not as much as they should. But as it relates to this incident, Sen. Allen can hardly claim ignorance on the matter.

From the article:

Quote :

"Only a decade ago, as governor of Virginia, Allen personally initiated an association with the Council of Conservative Citizens, the successor organization to the segregationist White Citizens Council and among the largest white supremacist groups."

8/31/2006 9:11:25 AM

I see, thanks Gamecat

So, in general it is possible to be seen as allied with a group of people whom you know not much about, but in this specific instance it appears that he did indeed know the CCC had racist leanings.

8/31/2006 9:27:07 AM

Exactly.

I'm sure TGD knows of some good examples of past embarassments experienced by politicians due to their ignorance of the organizations they were photographed or otherwise associated with.

[Edited on August 31, 2006 at 9:36 AM. Reason : .]

8/31/2006 9:36:36 AM

So then we're agreed
Allen's out,
John McCain FTW

8/31/2006 9:40:14 AM

I'm no fan of McCain. I credit TGD for getting the ball rolling on that, too. Within the last couple years I've even become decidedly less of a fan.

Frankly, I don't like our prospects for '08 no matter who runs.

8/31/2006 10:02:32 AM

Well, the sad thing is that we had no good choice last election either, and this year looks just as bleak

I long for the days of '92 when I would have been able to vote for either candidate in good conscience.

8/31/2006 10:15:40 AM

Quote :

"Gamecat: Probably not as much as they should. But as it relates to this incident, Sen. Allen can hardly claim ignorance on the matter. From the article:"

I don't disagree with the conclusion, but I don't think the quote you cited is evidence. Walking up to an exhibitor at a political conference and suggesting everyone get a picture taken is "personally initiating an association" by the article, but you still have the problem bgmims noted of not having sufficient information about the group you're dealing with.

Politicians are responsible for their commentary and pics though. I still don't really think Allen's a racist, but he's clearly had a string of fuck-ups that's approaching (or past) the "1 time too many" stage.

---

As it relates to 2008 though, mark my words I will campaign and contribute to the Democrat candidate if that asshat John McCain gets the GOP nomination... 

8/31/2006 11:27:57 AM

I did pick a bad section to quote. You're right about that.

The organizations CEO had something to say about the matter, though:

Quote :

"According to Baum [pictured center], Allen had not naively stumbled into a chance meeting with unfamiliar people. He knew exactly who and what the CCC was about and, from Baum's point of view, was engaged in a straightforward political transaction. "It helped us as much as it helped him," Baum told me. "We got our bona fides.""

And I'm not totally convinced he's an old school bigot. Probably slightly guilty of the quieter, moderate racism of our day, but I'd doubt moreso than 3/4 of Congress.

But yes. I'd say his chances in '08 are pretty much extinct. I'm still wondering about his chances in '06 now...

[Edited on August 31, 2006 at 11:47 AM. Reason : ...]

8/31/2006 11:46:34 AM

8/31/2006 1:31:34 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to pick them apart for methods/samples one by one."

we both know youre incapable of doing that

8/31/2006 1:39:37 PM

lol, Josh, I have more cred in here than you do (by FAR) and I've also taken classes on research methods, so while I'm not an expert, I am at least somewhat qualified to decide if the study should be taken seriously.
If you don't think I'm capable, why don't you post your studies and let's all talk about them together.

8/31/2006 1:56:38 PM

The two-party system is a system with a built-in logical fallacy: the either-or fallacy. We all know that there are more than two ways to get things done, but we continue to accept the two-party approach.

To me, it's like someone saying to you, "Okay, you can have either Cap'n Crunch or Frosted Flakes." And you're like, "Hey, I want Lucky Charms--I KNOW they exist I've seen them!" Yet, you are continually denied those delicious yellow stars and green clovers.

The point is that we need--at least--a legitimate third-party choice in our elections. I am not one that often touts European methodologies, but I think that a coalition government could work here. With such a coalition, which would likely form if numerous third-party candidates were elected, I think that more of our nation's citizens would get what they want from their government. Where are my damn Lucky Charms?!

9/1/2006 6:32:34 PM

Quote :

"hooksaw: Where are my damn Lucky Charms?!"

Repeatedly routed by the 2 major parties, b/c they typically only attract the lunatic kook fringe and whenever they come up with a reasonable idea it's promptly co-opted by the major players?...

9/2/2006 11:18:28 AM

Yes, you're right, dammit! And you’re concise, too.

We should TRY to break free, though. For some reason, I'm hearing an old Dokken tune in my head: "Breaking the chains around you / Nobody else can bind you / Take a good look around you / Now you're breaking the chains." Who knew that Don Dokken had the wisdom? But he does!

I'm going to go check and see what Krokus has offered on this complex issue.

9/3/2006 5:47:49 AM

Quote :

"To me, it's like someone saying to you, "Okay, you can have either Cap'n Crunch or Frosted Flakes." And you're like, "Hey, I want Lucky Charms--I KNOW they exist I've seen them!" Yet, you are continually denied those delicious yellow stars and green clovers."

Odd, in the 2004 election I remember no less than 11 Presidential Candidates in the election cycle, yet you want to pretend they didn't exist? Maybe you just forgot their names:
KERRY, KUCINICH, SHARPTON, EDWARDS, DEAN, CLARK, LIEBERMAN, GEPHARDT, MOSELEY BRAUN, GRAHAM, and finally BUSH

The American system of Democracy is a form of ranked voting split into two voting cycles: first, you vote in your state's Primary, if you are a Liberal then you vote for which Democrat you prefer, if you are a conservative you vote for Bush. Then you wait around for November and the system again asks you "Ok, now that the Liberals have chosen their most popular candidate and the Conservatives have chosen theirs, which of these two do you prefer?"

9/3/2006 9:33:22 AM

And if you're not a liberal or a conservative, you can fuck off.

9/3/2006 3:17:23 PM

Isn't Gephardt a moderate?

9/4/2006 10:59:23 AM

Your analysis of my post is way off base, LoneSnark. You will note that I was referring to PARTIES that are effectively participating in US elections--not individual candidates.

Try again.

9/5/2006 10:12:12 AM

Quote :

"I've also taken classes on research methods,"

and what classes would those be?

9/5/2006 10:27:45 AM

"Parties" are not running for office, candidates are.

9/5/2006 10:28:33 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "I've also taken classes on research methods," and what classes would those be?"

EC 480 - Introduction to Economic Research
EC 490H - Research Seminar in Economics
EC 351 - Data Analysis for Economics
EC 451 - Introduction to Econometrics

9/5/2006 1:44:17 PM