http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVW5_PJHzR4

I do agree that cops get tons of shit about using "excessive force" in situations where it could mean life or death, but at the same time police should be expected to not act like a normal citizen in the face of danger. Without badges cops are crinminals plain and simple, we allow them to act above the law and they should behave as such. i think we really need to revamp police training, and do more screening to find out who wants to be a cop because they have a tiny penis or were picked on in high school. we've had rediculous amounts of brutality from cops being overly trigger happy to just random ass whippings. the scariest part is that we only know about the cases caught on tape. it's safe to say that brutality is alot more rampant than we think and just recently we're catching more of it because technology (i.e. more camcorders,camera phones, etc)just makes me sad that the people who we trust with our safty can't always be trusted.

another thing that pisses me off in these cases is the explainations they give. the story in this 1 is that the guy was a known gang member (which is completly irrelevant) and was reaching for his partners gun. now i haven't recieved any law enforcement training but rather than using the free hand to pummel the suspects face i think a better course of action would be to use that hand to get him away fomr the gun and get him into the handcuffs. but that's just me...


speak on it.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:12 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 4:03:41 PM

ok your an idiot. in that video the guy is still resisting after being told and hit, he still refused to roll over and put his arms behind his back. you can clearly see him clenching his arms in a refusal to be handcuffed. that is NOT brutality you moron. go out and be a cop for one night and tell me if you think its brutality. its easy to judge from the comfy computer chair but guess what, the supreme court says you judge police action by what happened then and there in the heat of the moment, not what they could have done better. graham vs connor, cops must be reasonable not 100% correct, and that was reasonable. and dont say "but there were two cops they didnt have to hit him" cause thats pure T bullshit, have you ever fought with and had to control and cuff a person jacked up with god knows what(i have many times), it aint always easy and can take more than one person. and the kid in the video clear as day was clenching his arms with enough strength to prevent the cops from cuffing him. that WAS NOT BRUTALITY but a REASONABLE use of force.

[/thread]

hell most of you would say its brutality if they pepper sprayed him, but in that situation pepper spray would be a bad choice because they have him sort of controled but still resisting on the ground. if they sprayed they would have to back up and spray then regain control again. what they did was absolutely reasonable



[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 4:13:13 PM

Quote :

"ok your an idiot. "

11/10/2006 4:14:41 PM

[/thread]

11/10/2006 4:15:44 PM

so why did he punch him in the face when he already had his knee on his neck?

11/10/2006 4:17:58 PM

first off, "I do agree that cops get tons of shit about using "excessive force"" - agreed

but come on repub. we have no way of knowing exactly what happened in the seconds before the video started. but from what is shown, you cannot make the following arguments:

Quote :

"he still refused to roll over and put his arms behind his back."

he had one cop sitting on his hips and one cop's knee on his throat. regardless of if he "refused to roll over", he couldn't roll over.

Quote :

"you can clearly see him clenching his arms in a refusal to be handcuffed."

no, you can clearly see him try to shield his face while being punched in it. That is a natural human reaction. if one cop was trying to hand cuff him, then the other cop starts punching him in the face, you can't fault him for jerking his arms away from the 1st cop in order to shield his own face.
his arms were clenched to begin with because there was a knee in his throat.

11/10/2006 4:20:39 PM

because he was still refusing to comply, he was clenching his arms and actively resisting being cuffed, not to mention at one point he grabs the officers arm. if you are a cop or have ever been one you will know thats not brutality. any time you have someone one the ground like that and there arms are still free they can go for your gun belt and then guess what......deadly force is allowed. if they even unsnap one snap on your holster you have deadly force legally....so an uncontroled suspect who has his arms free is a very dangerous situation, and that kid appeared to be pretty strong.

once again

[/thread]

11/10/2006 4:21:07 PM

republican, stop replying

you killed/won this thread by your first post

things taken out of context should only be viewed as things taken out of context

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 4:22:48 PM

so how are you immediately saying that the guy deserved to be punched in the face while someone was sitting on his neck and chest?

11/10/2006 4:24:04 PM

yes thank you. in the context of that video it is clearly not police brutality, and thats all i judged it by, what i saw. if punching him in the face makes him relax his arms so you can gain control, punch the fuck out of his face...it is not excessive force

once again

[/thread]

Quote :

"another thing that pisses me off in these cases is the explainations they give. the story in this 1 is that the guy was a known gang member (which is completly irrelevant) and was reaching for his partners gun. now i haven't recieved any law enforcement training but rather than using the free hand to pummel the suspects face i think a better course of action would be to use that hand to get him away fomr the gun and get him into the handcuffs. but that's just me..."

first that fact that he is a known gang member is totally relevant and makes him more dangerous to a cop. second if he was truly going for the officers gun, they could have killed him and it would be legal....the fact that they didnt makes it not brutality

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:27 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 4:24:06 PM

meh. i don't really care a lot. but to say that you need more context and THEN to say that you can make conclusions based on the same lack of context is pretty silly.

11/10/2006 4:25:44 PM

in conclusion, that wasnt brutality. i have explained why in many ways and will not do so anymore. this thread is over. find another video and maybe i will judge it excessive. but that one certainly was not

[/thread]

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:30 PM. Reason : for the last time]

11/10/2006 4:29:41 PM

I don't like what I see. I think police should work to find better ways to apprehend a suspect.

I'm mostly saddened by the situation. The cop doesn't seem to enjoy punching the guy in the face; he's not getting off on it or letting out agression. It's just the only way he knows how to handle the guy, and that's sad.

11/10/2006 4:30:46 PM

your a moron, end of story. if they had beat him with an asp youd say it was excessive. if they used a taser, it would be excessive. if the dog bit him it would be excessive, if they sprayed him it would be excessive. the point is they had him sort of controlled but he was still actively resisting quite clearly, so they punched him and in no way are wrong for it. thats the only way he knows, not quite, you do what works plain n simple. the video ends before we see if it worked, so if punches dont work move on to something else. thats what cops are taught, but youd never know that



[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:35 PM. Reason : . ]

11/10/2006 4:33:35 PM

Quote :

"ok your an idiot. "

Quote :

"your a moron"

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:35 PM. Reason : df]

11/10/2006 4:35:05 PM

y'our the biggest moran hear

11/10/2006 4:37:19 PM

^^Are you talking to me?

I'm not saying it's excessive. I know that they move on to other things. I didn't mean that the punching is the only way he knows how to handle it; I meant that "violence" is the only way they know how to handle it.

It makes me sad. That's it.

Go fuck yourself.

"End of story." LOL

(By the way, that trite phrase is supposed to be use at the end of something. If you're gonna use that tired, bitchy shit, use it right.)

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:39 PM. Reason : sss]

11/10/2006 4:38:38 PM

yes you, your a freakin idiot

Quote :

"I meant the physical restraint and "violence" is the only way they know how to handle it."

yeah im sorry if the "sir please if you could set the gun down that would be super duper" doesnt work cops have to use.....oh my god......force and violence guess what, my ass is going home at the end of the night, if i have to punch, spray, kick, bite or shoot joe T crackhead or homie da gangbanger so be it. my ass is going home at the end of my shift. quit living in la la land you naive little princess.

[/thread]

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 4:41:50 PM

Quote :

"because he was still refusing to comply, he was clenching his arms and actively resisting being cuffed, not to mention at one point he grabs the officers arm. if you are a cop or have ever been one you will know thats not brutality. any time you have someone one the ground like that and there arms are still free they can go for your gun belt and then guess what......deadly force is allowed. if they even unsnap one snap on your holster you have deadly force legally....so an uncontroled suspect who has his arms free is a very dangerous situation, and that kid appeared to be pretty strong. "

refgusing to comply?!?! HOW the fuck do u roll over with a 200lb mans knee in ur neck then another 200lb officer stradldling on ur hips?? him complying would not only involve him getting the officer off his waist as mentioned earlier, but also his snapping his own neck.

watch the video and notice the suspects hand on the officers knee/inner thigh , the officer is clearly holding the mans arm down with 1 hand THERE IS NO MOVEMENT( which is ussally neessary for you to be considered "resisting" ), with his other hand calmy resting on his waist.the officer then swiches his hand control then delivers the first punch that's when the suspect grabs his arm.

Quote :

"first that fact that he is a known gang member is totally relevant and makes him more dangerous to a cop. second if he was truly going for the officers gun, they could have killed him and it would be legal....the fact that they didnt makes it not brutality"

first he had never had any record of ties to a gang until the lapd said it. there is no ther way to know he was a gang member. second even if he was he deserves equal proteciton under the law. like saying "oh i heard that guy was in a gang" "well in order to arresst gang members we have to punch em in the face for a bit to ge the handcuffs on"



AND YES I HAVE FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMEBERS WHO ARE POLICE OFFICERS

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:44 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 4:42:19 PM

... on a serious note, we need to teach people that when an officer says, "Shut up and get down on the ground!", that means you need to shut up and get down on the ground.

11/10/2006 4:42:42 PM

YOUR vs. YOU'RE

11/10/2006 4:44:40 PM

well stopdropnrol, your still an idiot. he was clearly fighting and resisting getting cuffed, you see it clear as day in the video. if he had gone limp so they could manipulate his arms they would have rolled him over n cuffed him. but he wasnt, he was clenching and resisting and that was not excessive. your an idiot



dude im too fuckin lazy to type you're you know that man, ive been doing your sicne i first got on here years ago

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:46 PM. Reason : ,]

11/10/2006 4:45:22 PM

How is the guy supposed to roll over when the cop has his knee on his fucking throat and the other one is sitting on his hips? Also, what about the guys statements that he couldn't breathe? Also, what about what happened just prior in that video. The cops could have very well just started to harass the guy for no reason and I will tell you right now that I will resist if the police have no reason to be detaining me.

11/10/2006 4:48:36 PM

Quote :

"ok your an idiot. "

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"your a moron"

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"your a freakin idiot"

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"your still an idiot"

damn

11/10/2006 4:48:49 PM

Quote :

"How is the guy supposed to roll over when the cop has his knee on his fucking throat and the other one is sitting on his hips? Also, what about the guys statements that he couldn't breathe? Also, what about what happened just prior in that video. The cops could have very well just started to harass the guy for no reason and I will tell you right now that I will resist if the police have no reason to be detaining me."

what happened before is irrelevant cause we dont know, in that video there is no brutality. and i already answered the question of how he rolls over with them on him. if he went limp they would have rolled his gang bangin ass over for him

11/10/2006 4:50:11 PM

watts wrong with doze quotes?

11/10/2006 4:50:13 PM

^^Who will ever go limp if they have a person kneeling on their throat and punching them in the face? If you go limp in that situation, the muscles are no longer tensed and you could end up with a crush trachea.

11/10/2006 4:52:43 PM

i meant his arms go limp and stop struggling with them

11/10/2006 4:53:48 PM

if you've got one cop holding down his torso and another cop with the entire weight of his body on dude's throat via his knee, do you also need to punch dude in the face multiple times? really? you do?

11/10/2006 4:55:27 PM

^^If I'm having trouble breathing, I don't think my arms will be going limp. It is a natural physical reacation.

11/10/2006 4:57:07 PM

Quote :

"yeah im sorry if the "sir please if you could set the gun down that would be super duper" doesnt work cops have to use.....oh my god......force and violence guess what, my ass is going home at the end of the night, if i have to punch, spray, kick, bite or shoot joe T crackhead or homie da gangbanger so be it. my ass is going home at the end of my shift. quit living in la la land you naive little princess."

Naive little princess? I'm speaking from experience. I've had a cop put his hand over his gun and threaten to shoot me if I didn't obey him. He was actually more professional than the "cop" who bum-rushed me. I thought he was a security guard; he was actually a West-Tek "company" cop. He didn't speak English very well, and I was his first arrest so he was nervous. So without identifying himself or saying a single word to me he tried to cuff me. He looked to be about 100 pounds, and I was pushing 200, and I fought hard. Four men eventually came to help him out, and I finally got so exhausted, I gave up. THEN the cop decided to speak to me. So I got charged with assault when I thought I was protecting myself from an errant security guard.

So, yeah, I think communication skills should come as a priority before the "punch, spray, kick, bite or shoot"...but that's just me, I guess.

11/10/2006 5:11:40 PM

if you dont know what a cop in uniform looks like your a moron, all of you that dont understand the reality of this video are also pretty damn dumb, or just bitter about past experiences with cops.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 5:35 PM. Reason : ,]

11/10/2006 5:34:01 PM

this bothers me less than using a tazer as a compliance device

11/10/2006 5:42:52 PM

a taser hurts a lot worse than being hit in the face

11/10/2006 5:44:50 PM

^^^I do understand the reality. I said it's sad.

And I'm not dumb for not knowing what a cop looks like in uniform. I thought you had your highway patrol and your RPD with the SBI and FBI, as well. I had no idea there was such a thing as a "company" police officer, privately trained with badges that have the name of a company on them.

You know what might have cleared up the confusion...he could have identified himself.

Back to this reality...

Quote :

"Republican18: guess what, my ass is going home at the end of the night, if i have to punch, spray, kick, bite or shoot joe T crackhead or homie da gangbanger so be it."

I understand the dangers you face on a daily basis (as much as I can since I'm not a cop). But if you frame it as I'm the good guy with a gun and everybody else is "Joe T Crackhead" and "Homie Da Gangbanger" with a gun, you're setting the situation for violence. Maintaining that mindset may help you get home alive at night, but you're gonna get beaten up a lot more than necessary.

Also, crackheads don't own guns. I hope to goodness you'd never shoot an addict. I also hope you don't resent the committments you do for the mentally ill and whatnot because that's really good work.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 5:48 PM. Reason : sss]

11/10/2006 5:47:59 PM

and its safer for thea cop, and because of that often quicker to be used

11/10/2006 5:48:19 PM

Quote :

"all of you that dont understand the reality of this video are also pretty damn dumb, or just bitter about past experiences with cops."

the reality of this video is that the cop had no reason to punch the guy in the face.

11/10/2006 5:50:51 PM

your just wrong on this one bro, thats just it. id have most likely done it too. and of course BridgetSPK we cops try to avoid fights and force when at all possible, but when and if it comes down to violence, I am going to do whatever it takes to win. a cops best weapon is his ability to talk a situation down, and im very good at that, but when that doesnt work you do whatever the hell you have to within reason to effect the arrest and go home. no arrest is worth an officers life.

ya know what though, im done arguing about this with people that have no clue about what its really like. i have been on calls where people were pepper sprayed, where we fought with people, where we slammed people, where we shot a crack dog coming to bite us, and its all been reasonable. until you go out and hold the line for a night you will not understand what its like. im not saying a holier than though attitude im merely saying its impossible to relate reality to you until youve been there....just like you cant apprecitate combat until youve been there.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 6:02 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 5:57:29 PM

And no arrest is worth anyone's life or safety. Not even the suspects. Besides, it is well known that LAPD uses excessive force. It's been the knock against them for many years and only through the proliferation of video cameras has it come to light.

11/10/2006 6:02:15 PM

rodney king wasnt brutality pal, but thats another arguement for another day

11/10/2006 6:06:39 PM

I didn't say Rodney King. The brutality along with corruption brought down the RAMPART Division of LAPD. Look at the Bloody Christmas scandal in 1951. Darryl Gates was notorious for bringing in more brutal tactics. There are countless accounts of legitimate police brutality by the LAPD that have nothing to do with Rodney King.

11/10/2006 6:19:47 PM

i agree there, but i only brought up king becasue when most people bring up lapd brutality they think king, when in all reality king was not brutality.

11/10/2006 6:22:44 PM

Bottom line, when a cop tells you to get on the ground and place both hands behind your head and whatnot, you need to do it, or stuff like this will happen. I also find it convenient that the "video evidence" lasts only 20 seconds.

11/10/2006 7:39:32 PM

Yeah as with anything like this, it would be nice to see the context of how he got to the ground. The fact that he's on the ground with two cops sitting on him suggests he put up a decent fight before he got to the ground. As with almost all "police brutality" videos I've seen, we don't get to see what lead up to it.

11/10/2006 8:35:56 PM

Quote :

"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

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"ok your an idiot. "

11/10/2006 8:37:16 PM

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE THE VIDEO. AT the point where the video starts the man is subdued . the man is obiviously not resisting like which republican refuses to believe even though BOTH officers are only using 1 hand to restrain this man ( 1 officer is on the radio , other has his hand calmly on his hip). i understand as an officer you deal with lots of dangerous situations but again that's your job if you're just going to act like a vilgilante and deliver what u see fit as justice then u should choose another career.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 9:25 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 9:23:07 PM

I don't know if it's brutality or not ... But imagine faulting the guy for grabing the officer's arm to stop him from hitting you, after the cop just pelted you in the face ... "Put your hands down" ... "Shut up and take it" ... "or you'll get more of the same" ...

11/10/2006 9:31:29 PM

note the clenching arms and refusal to keep them down. he is actively struggling and actively resisting. you are a moron

watch the dinkheller video and you can see what happens when an officer is too hesitant to use force.
may he rest in peace.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 9:46 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 9:40:04 PM

Yes it very much does matter what happened before the start of the video, he is not subdued as they are clearly still fighting with him and he's fighting back. The one officer is repeatedly telling him to let go of the officer and he is refusing to comply. If he were subdued he would have his arms down. The officer is clearly not beating him for the hell of it. Each time it's three strikes they're calculated to get him to stop resisting.

The other reason it matters is because this video looks very much like selective editing. The same user posts two other clips from the same take down, both of them less than 10 seconds in length both at various points apart from each other, and they leave out what was in between. Why would you do that? Why not just post the whole video as you have it and let people make their own judgements?

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 9:50 PM. Reason : why]

11/10/2006 9:45:28 PM

thank you

11/10/2006 9:46:34 PM