http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/24/AR2006112400788.html

It's long, but worth the read if you're interested in how weapons shape world conflict...

11/27/2006 4:38:01 PM

Interesting article...
...I think I'll buy one.

11/27/2006 6:05:54 PM

I own multiple

great firearm and great history behind it



His birthday also falls on the same day as the birthday of the USMC

11/27/2006 6:18:29 PM

haha....

Quote :

""African credit card"-- you could not leave home without it."

I imagine this article is gonna piss off the AR crowd

By the way...

Quote :

"It combined the best characteristics of a submachine gun (light weight and durability) and a machine gun (killing power)."

Isn't durability and killing power an important feature of ALL military small arms, not just SMGs and MGs?
/nitpick

11/27/2006 7:39:49 PM

^ sometimes you trade off one for the other though, is the point

11/27/2006 7:51:25 PM

^^ Maybe I missed something in the article but how is this going to piss off the AR people? I didn't notice any instances of the AR being misrepresented.

11/27/2006 8:23:14 PM

The Kalashnikov is a much better than an M-16 as a close to medium range weapon, especially in inhospitable environments.

When I was at desert warfare school, I can't even count how many times I had the bolt jam because sand blew in it (you clean it daily, sometimes several times a day). Those close tolerances are dangerous. I heard that you could drag an AK behind a truck on a dirt road, dust it off briefly and shoot it without a misfire. I had a Romanian SAR-1 copy of an AK (semi-auto) and I never had the thing jam once.

I remember reading how in Vietnam an entire rifle company of Marines were found dead with cleaning rods in their weapons because they all had jammed. Their bodies had been picked over for rations and grenades and such, but the weapons were left there. Turns out that the weapon's bolt was poorly designed, it was later fixed by adding chromium plating to the bolt, making it harder to stick. They also included the "forward assist" on subsequent models, which is used to force a stuck bolt forward, instead of trying to do it with the cleaning rods like those poor Marines. The original M-16 was referred to disparingingly as "the Mattel toy" because of its appearance.


Forward assist, big bulbous protrusion over the trigger

Oh and for you AR owners, there is something called the "winter trigger" feature on all AR-15 and M-16 variants. Take a paper clip and press into that pin looking thing where the trigger guard meets the magazine chamber. The trigger guard will flip down. This is to allow soldiers in cold weather environments to operate their weapons without having to remove their gloves.






[Edited on November 27, 2006 at 8:42 PM. Reason : .]

11/27/2006 8:34:02 PM

^^ Well its basically stating that M-16s are inferior to the AK, and AR-15s are to M-16s what AKM and SARs are to the real AK-47



plus the AR crowd tends to be pretty nationalistic and quick to say that any american made gun is better than foreign (especially east-bloc) guns.

11/27/2006 11:06:36 PM

everyone i've ever met who knows jack shit about the two weapons agrees that it depends on what you're using it for. either weapon can be superior to the other, depending on the element and scenario it's being used in.

11/27/2006 11:13:41 PM

If you want a gun that you can abuse and drag through the most hostile environments, the AK is your best bet. Can't aim worth crap, but, in the immortal words of Samuel L. Jackson: "When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the room, accept no substitutes."

I think the most amazing story I heard was of some joker dropping one accidentally into a muddy river, fished it out, and then fired off a few rounds. Doesn't surprise me why it's the guerrilla's weapon of choice.

11/27/2006 11:26:13 PM

Anybody know the best place to get a decent one for a reasonable price? I've been wanting one but I'll probably have to wait until the Dixie Classic Gun Show rolls around again.

11/28/2006 12:21:41 AM

stopping power and reliability=AK-47

long range accuracy=M-16

11/28/2006 12:27:13 AM

I couldn't even hit a big target at 100 yards on the last AK that I shot. I know some of them are accurate to 250+, but this thing must have been overheated one time too many or something.

Is the Russian SKS considered to be one of the better quality ones? I've toyed with picking one up sometime.

11/28/2006 12:34:01 AM

is there a weapon that has stopping power, reliability, and accuracy?

11/28/2006 12:56:30 AM

good ones are alot harder to find

mine are Chinese NHM91 and Romanian SAR1

seem to be 2 of the best out there

Quote :

"The original M-16 was referred to disparingingly as "the Mattel toy" because of its appearance. "

it was referred to as that because Mattel actually manufactured parts for the gun

Quote :

"plus the AR crowd tends to be pretty nationalistic and quick to say that any american made gun is better than foreign (especially east-bloc) guns"

not really

I love AR variants and AKs, but the AK is a better weapon IMO for doing what it was designed to do

11/28/2006 1:00:03 AM

^ not all, but from what Ive seen most do.

Quote :

"is there a weapon that has stopping power, reliability, and accuracy?"

Just about any bolt action rifle

My 2 cents on the AKvAR:

Aks are not accurate because they weren't designed to be target shooting guns. You don't need <3 MOA to shoot someone unless its like 400+ yards. The biggest reason they are considered inaccurate is probably the people who shoot them who don't aim.

We also need to consider price, most nations couldn't afford anything else, if you have to choose between either equipping everyone or only giving 1 in 3 men a gun, there is no choice.

As far as to which has the deadlier round, thats a whole nother debate

11/28/2006 8:48:20 AM

Quote :

"it was referred to as that because Mattel actually manufactured parts for the gun"

the grips were manufactured by Mattel

11/28/2006 9:00:09 AM

Interesting article. Perhaps it converted a few anti's.

I own several AKs, they are among my favorites. The gun is damn near as simple and durable as an anvil, I've fired them thousands of times without cleaning and never had a malfunction. The thing could be field stripped and reassembled by a drunk 5 year old.
Probably the most elegantly simple self loading small arm ever produced. And for its 250-meter design perameters, it works just fine.

11/28/2006 9:23:11 AM

Oh and just because this thread needs it:

11/28/2006 9:43:01 AM

Here is Kalshnikov (left) with the man who developed the M16, Eugene Stoner.

11/28/2006 9:45:42 AM

11/29/2006 1:44:05 AM

I like that movie

I'd love to be an arms dealer

11/29/2006 10:39:22 AM

How does the AK74 campare to the AK47 in terms of accuracy? I'm just curious as to whether or not rechambering it led to a better gun.

11/29/2006 5:21:10 PM

It's suppost to duplicate the wound balistics of the US 5.56mm round because of it's tendancies to tumble and fragment at high speeds over the .30 caliber rounds.

11/29/2006 7:03:51 PM

that and it's alot easier to carry a few hundred rounds of .223 in mags

11/29/2006 7:04:54 PM

^^ I've read about the boat tail bullet design and the tumble that it creates, I just haven't seen anything about the accuracy vs. a 7.62x39mm round.

11/29/2006 7:25:52 PM

The Ak74 is quite a bit more accurate than the 7.62x39.
The original Russian issue 7N6 5.45x39 load was a 52 grain VLD bullet with a .750ish BC thrown at 2960 fps. It had an air pocket in the nose of the bullet which would fold over upon impact, causing the base of the bullet to yaw and create a greater wound channel. How well this actually worked depends on who you ask. It's a neat round, and pretty much matches the lethality of our M855 55 grain .223 service round.

The 5.45 ammo available in this country for semi auto civilian AK74 rifles does not have the air pocket or steel core of the original 7N6 and weighs from 55 to 70 grains depending on brand and load. It's a neat round, with almost zero recoil. A good Bulgarian or Russian AK74 will shoot 1.5-2MOA with good ammo.

11/30/2006 8:32:01 AM