but not on I-95... wtf

I hate our state government, they've pissed away our tax money for years with no accountability

http://www.wral.com/traffic/story/1196954/

2/8/2007 9:12:23 AM

Why I-95?

2/8/2007 9:18:13 AM

because if they put tolls on 77,85,95 it will tax people who use our roads that don't pay the highest gas tax in the nation instead of actual NC residents that already pay outrageous gas taxes

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 9:21 AM. Reason : ..]

2/8/2007 9:21:36 AM

Yeah, if given the choice between 540 with a toll or just driving an extra 5 to 10 miles with stoplights until I get to 440 without a toll I'd go 440 10 times out of 10.

And even though they are using the tolls to collect money to build the highway you can bet the farm that the toll booths will still be up long after the roads have been galvanized with platinum.

What are the exorbitant gas taxes in NC paying for?

2/8/2007 9:23:23 AM

pork barrel projects


they always try to initiate some great new plan to increase revenue, it passes, then they say, "umm thats not enough money, we need to come up with something else"

I don't mind taxes, they are needed to maintain things, but I do mind govt officials using our tax money as they please with 0 accountability

2/8/2007 9:26:23 AM

why should non-NC residents pay for 540? Tolls should go on the road they're paying for.

2/8/2007 9:36:36 AM

I agree with you, but this "no accountability" line is crap. Elections are the accountability. Or would you like to set up some other body to monitor the existing government?

2/8/2007 9:37:25 AM

^^have you never drove to NY?

^ok then, people keep electing the same idiots that blow our tax money, sure set up a watchdog group that monitors the budget, but isn't there already groups that do that



[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 9:43 AM. Reason : ...]

2/8/2007 9:41:41 AM

Quote :

"Tolls should go on the road they're paying for."

...and tolls should be taken down once the road has been paid for.

One point made in the WRAL comments was that NC residents already pay one of the highest gas taxes in the nation. Time to share the burden with the rest of the states.

^The problem with NC is that whenever there is a budget shortfall they automatically look for sources to acquire new revenue instead of looking for ways to cut spending on unnecessary things or running a more efficient shop. You don't have to look any further than the education budget.

The education budget is in crisis.
1) A lottery will solve the problem
2) Nope, we need more. a 900 million dollar bail out
3) Nope, not quite enough, we need another 900 million

Kinda makes you wonder what is going on. If there are more people in NC that need more services that have to be paid for you shouldn't have to constantly hike the rate you are taxing everyone. You should already be making more money because there are more people to tax. And since the taxes are all rates they don't have to be adjusted for inflation. The tax situation in NC has gone from bad to worse, and it will be interesting to see just how far south it will get.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 9:55 AM. Reason : -]

2/8/2007 9:44:50 AM

Quote :

"why should non-NC residents pay for 540? Tolls should go on the road they're paying for."

Because its more palatable to milk outsiders than it is to hit up state taxpayers for yet even more money. I don't see why they don't toll the entire length of I-95: it's a great idea. There's no other good alternative going from up North down to Florida, and as pointed out, almost no one who actually lives in the state uses I-95. Throw on an EZ-Pass system to make it convenient for all those from the Northeast, a few overpriced rest stops to fleece our captive audience, and bam, easy revinue with minimal impact to the locals.

It'll be like Delaware's stretch of 95, the Jersey Turnpike, and the other $20+ in tolls I pay each time I drove from NC to Massachusetts.

2/8/2007 9:45:42 AM

^ 4 along the entire stretch would do it i think (per NC crossing) 2 near the boarders (no easy way around) and 2 in the middle about....

Quote :

"And even though they are using the tolls to collect money to build the highway you can bet the farm that the toll booths will still be up long after the roads have been galvanized with platinum."

that's the worst part, as soon as they get money they think they can do whatever they want with it despite what they said they wanted it for to begin with...

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:05 AM. Reason : s]

2/8/2007 9:47:18 AM

Quote :

"have you never drove to NY?"

I'm from NJ, so yeah.

2/8/2007 10:02:50 AM

then why did you ask such a question?

2/8/2007 10:03:59 AM

????

tons of NJ residents use the turnpike, if that was the point you are trying to make...

2/8/2007 10:08:57 AM

and plenty more are non residents

2/8/2007 10:10:36 AM

Yeah, but a bunch of NJ roads have tolls, not just the Turnpike. A lot of people commute daily from other states to NYC, so I think the situation is a little different than the one we're talking about.

2/8/2007 10:12:38 AM

so you're saying that they should put a toll on 540 and not on the interstates that pass through our state than a majority of non residents drive

^ the only road in NJ I ever paid a toll on was the turnpike

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:14 AM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 10:13:48 AM

Quote :

"4 along the entire stretch would do it i think (per NC crossing) 2 near the boarders (no easy way around) and 2 in the middle about...."

I prefer the idea of a completely closed system such as the NJ Turnpike, where you get a ticket when you get on 95 and then pay the toll when you get off. The rate you pay would depend on what exit you got on and get off at. Then, as mentioned before, you can get even more money out of them, forcing them to use state-licensed stops where the food and items are grossly overpriced.

2/8/2007 10:15:11 AM

I like the fact that there aren't any toll roads in NC, or most of the South for that matter. I'd just hate to see everyone start tolling 95, then it would cost like $50 on top of gas to drive to NY for instance. I can see the point of paying tolls in major cities, urban areas where they have tons of bridges, tunnels, HOV lanes, and all that to make travel flow easier for local commuters as well as thru traffic. 95 in NC, however, is pretty much a straight shot basic highway, and not the cause of the deficit we're talking about. Perhaps taxing 540 isn't the answer either, but it doesn't look like we have much choice there.

2/8/2007 10:20:50 AM

^^That is better but I'd imagine that is a costlier system to implement (time and dollars). It's just easier to throw up 4 toll booths.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:21 AM. Reason : ^^]

2/8/2007 10:20:56 AM

Quote :

"highest gas tax "

Actually, 6 other states have higher gas taxes. Perhaps you mean highest gas taxes in the region?

2/8/2007 10:25:47 AM

Personally, I'd be ashamed to charge tolls on people passing through. That's pretty tacky, especially when you consider that most of the money that pays for 95 is federal funds. Anybody have any stats on 95 funding sources?

Also, I know tolling 95 has been talked about before and I recall there are some legal issues, like getting permission from the feds.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:29 AM. Reason : ?]

2/8/2007 10:28:56 AM

^^oh sorry, close enough

^ but it's not tacky to charge us an insane amount of gas taxes and then charge us tolls to drive on roads we've already paid for ??

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:32 AM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 10:30:07 AM

Would you rather lower the gas tax and raise the income tax? Seems to me the people who use the roads should pay for them.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:31 AM. Reason : ?]

2/8/2007 10:30:48 AM

Quote :

"Personally, I'd be ashamed to charge tolls on people passing through. That's pretty tacky, especially when you consider that most of the money that pays for 95 is federal funds."

In principle, I'm against tolling highways and interstates as a whole, but if the state is going to insist on tolling to pay for new road construction, I would rather toll non-residents.

2/8/2007 10:32:16 AM

^^seems to me that the people that don't pay our gas taxes and use our highways ought to pay for it


better yet, the citizens of this state should quit electing officials that use our money in the wrong ways


[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:34 AM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 10:33:25 AM

This is what happens when you elect Democrats...

Who appointed these people to the NC Turnpike Authority? It says in the article that the mayors of the affected areas would have to approve it, so chances are that this thing might not pass.

As somebody who has to go through tolls in FL and the northeast on a routine basis, I think it sucks. The people in the southwestern part of the county are going to be screwed.

2/8/2007 10:49:00 AM

yeah no shit, I just bought a house on ten ten road too

and have a farm on the johnston county side of the joco/wake line

and work in raleigh... well I work all over central and eastern NC, VA, and SC


I hope it doesn't pass, they've already raised taxes to pay for this road, now all of a sudden the money isn't there, yeah right... it was there, the politicians decided to use it elsewhere

but they made sure 540 was finished out near Wakefield and the new mall

2/8/2007 10:53:21 AM

The state of NC should just cut out the middle man and have everyone's paycheck signed over directly to them. They can then decide what, if any, money people will get when they are done.

2/8/2007 10:53:57 AM

^^^and it is a Democratic legislature in VA pushing toll compacts with NC . I guess its easier to blame the party you aren't than think about more complicated frameworks at play.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 10:57:50 AM

howabout blame all of the NC politicians that blow money that was already earmarked for other things

2/8/2007 11:00:58 AM

http://tollroadsnews.info/artman/publish/article_1458.shtml

Says here that the sponsor of the NC toll roads legislation is a Democrat.

What is complicating is that the residents in southwestern NC could possibly be screwed, I mean taxed twice for this road, once through the general means to raise the funds and then from actually using it.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 11:09 AM. Reason : ]

2/8/2007 11:08:12 AM

Quote :

"they've already raised taxes to pay for this road, now all of a sudden the money isn't there"

Do you anything to document that they raised taxes to pay for 540? That would be news to me.

2/8/2007 11:08:36 AM

^^^I can live with that. Also, I'd personally rather have a higher gas tax than inadequate roads and/or tolls. Tolls are generally bad public policy IMO, as they create road segments rather than build transportation networks. That way the burden is shared equally and disbursed in a theoretically more sensible manner. Tolls for heavy trucks are at least permissable, as they disproportionately degrade roads. In the end, enough revenue should be raised to keep and build adequate transportation systems, and that $$$ should be kept seperate from the General Fund.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 11:09 AM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 11:08:49 AM

^^ we've been paying for 540 for years


but I doubt you realized that

^ I agree, I'd rather pay the gas tax than pay an additional fee... not like we can prevent them from doing it though, if the money is no longer there it's no longer there

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 11:11 AM. Reason : ..]

2/8/2007 11:10:02 AM

The tax on fuel is specifically earmarked for road construction, and the state recently raised the taxes on that, which gives NC the distinction of having the highest gas tax in the south.

2/8/2007 11:10:57 AM

Just curious, since I've never been on a toll road before. What happens if you can't pay the toll fee? Do they refuse to let you through the exit? Do they also not let you get out through the entrance? Do they impound your car?

2/8/2007 11:11:17 AM

Yes, we need officials who have a brain, understand economics, and learn how to fucking spend money wisely...

not to mention that whole debacle of the road crews in Durham fucked up I-40 recently... and that ads more money for fuck ups. I say fire the fuck ups and make it harsher for people who do fuck up, like fines and shit that actually make a difference... Like if some politician wastes 20 million dollars on some useless we the people should take his daughter away... :p or something... :p

2/8/2007 11:22:04 AM

North Carolina is one state that was smart enough to index the gas tax. Capping it last year was short-sighted. Road construction costs are increasing even faster than the gas tax (based on the index) was rising without the tax. I'd rather have the gas tax go up with inflation than end up with crappy roads because the gas tax hasn't been indexed to inflation, like you have in Virginia. Good infrastructure is good for quality of life and the economy, and I'd rather have that than some knee-jerk no-tax posturing.

Even if a state has a higher gas tax, it doesn't necessarily translate to higher prices at the pump. That is the result of many factors, the largest being the market. In states like North Carolina, where the gas tax is higher, gas prices are generally adjusted to keep them in line with neighboring states. You have a much better argument that gas tax cuts into profit margin than it hitting consumers hard at the pump.

2/8/2007 11:25:32 AM

Quote :

"Just curious, since I've never been on a toll road before. What happens if you can't pay the toll fee? Do they refuse to let you through the exit? Do they also not let you get out through the entrance? Do they impound your car?"

I actually had this happen to me once in West Virginia (didn't think it would cost $6!!!). What they do is take down your license plate number and your information on your drivers license and then issue you a bill on the spot. You have to pay it within a certain amount of time, or they'll basically come after you.

2/8/2007 11:39:17 AM

Quote :

"the only road in NJ I ever paid a toll on was the turnpike"

the parkway also has tolls

2/8/2007 11:52:15 AM

From what i have been told about roads in NC by local and state officials, is that we pay for everything, even the Interstates. We get federal funds for certian projects, and to complete them, but the majority of the funds come from NC taxes.


That being said, anything I would want to say is has been discussed so far. But my two cents is this; if they are going to start tolling roads, then start with I-95. Its a major thru-fare for out of staters. I would rather have no tolls in NC, but we have to be realistic in how much money we need to up keep these roads. And it would be better to tax out of staters than NC residents, which is only what tolling 540 would do.

Not only that but it would create massive delays and backups on something that should be seamless. Yes i know of EZPass, but it still would be a pain.

add- listen to markgoal, he knows his shit.

add^2-

Quote :

"Yes, we need officials who have a brain, understand economics, and learn how to fucking spend money wisely..."

We probably do, in our policy makers. Its that we have short sighted political leadership that has handed us this problem over and over and...

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 12:04 PM. Reason : +2]

2/8/2007 12:01:04 PM

EZpass FTW! i love that thing.

2/8/2007 1:14:24 PM

We actually ahve to pay car taxes here, unlike a lot of other places so i dont find it reasonable for tolss at all. Wtf are my car taxes going towards?

2/8/2007 1:31:48 PM

they pay for other projects that the voters have said "no" to

2/8/2007 1:41:41 PM

Quote :

"^^ we've been paying for 540 for years but I doubt you realized that"

No need to be ignorant. Of course we've been paying for 540. They've built about half of it. You said that (1) they raised taxes to pay for 540 and (2) that they have redirected that money. Do you have anything to back up either point or are you just a dumb redneck hemming and hawing?

2/8/2007 1:42:36 PM

The gas tax is so high for a very simple reason.
As gas prices goes up so does the price of asphalt, and the price to put gas in the vehicles that are involved in road paving. Therefore, Gov Martin (a Republican) proposed a system where any increase in the price of gas would pay for itself. If you want to complain about the legislature taking cash from the highway trust fund that is a completely seperate topic.

on top of all this, how absurd it is for libertarians to argue AGAINST user fees? freaks.

2/8/2007 1:42:44 PM

I'm not complaining about what party anyone is from

I'm complaining about politicians wasting our tax money then claiming they need more of it


not to mention multiple levels of taxation on the same thing

I swear to god some of you people can't put partisan shit out of your head at all

omg pwrstrkdf250 made a thread, let me take the opposite side of whatever he is talking about

2/8/2007 1:46:50 PM

the whole point of the post was that the gas tax is high because oil prices are high. thanks for playing though.

2/8/2007 1:49:48 PM

Don't confuse the Highway Trust Fund with the Highway Fund. Your gas taxes go in the latter and have not been diverted.

Quote :

"Here is how it works. The state raises $1.4 billion annually in gas taxes. All of that goes to transportation, to something called the Highway Fund. No gas tax money is being diverted. Besides the main Highway Fund, there is a second, smaller fund. In 1989, the Highway Trust Fund -- a separate kitty -- was created to finance additional road projects favored by lawmakers, such as the Outer Loop around Raleigh. To help pay for the new fund, the legislature took the money raised by the sales tax on car purchases and moved it from the General Fund, which pays for most of state government, to the Highway Trust Fund. When they shifted the tax on car sales to the Highway Trust Fund, lawmakers said that they wanted part of that money to be applied to general government. So every year since the Highway Trust Fund was created, part of the car sales tax money has been transferred to the General Fund. In most years, it has been about $170 million. That changed in 2001, when Democratic Gov. Mike Easley came into office and immediately faced the state's worst budget crisis since the Great Depression. Looking for ways to keep state government afloat, Easley increased the amount of money diverted from the Highway Trust Fund to the General Fund from $170 million per year to about $250 million per year."

http://www.newsobserver.com/1106/v-print/story/394063.html

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 1:54 PM. Reason : ?]

2/8/2007 1:53:16 PM