. . .the Homeland Security Committee! Jefferson is the guy who the FBI discovered had $90,000 in his freezer! Unbelievable!

Quote :

"Democrats acknowledged that their move to give the seat to the Louisiana Democrat [Jefferson], who is under federal investigation for bribery [emphasis added], would not happen via the simple and fast unanimous consent motion they had planned to offer. Instead, every Democrat will now have to go on record on Jefferson’s appointment, which could be particularly difficult for some freshmen member who ran last November on an anti-corruption platform. 'It’s a tough vote for some of our guys,' said a Democratic aide familiar with the situation. 'But in the end, we’re going to just have to do it.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2007/03/01/cq_2346.html

[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 1:07 AM. Reason : .]

3/3/2007 1:06:04 AM

well, on the surface, I admit, I'm like WTF??

but, take a deep breath and think for a second....

whats that shit called when someone has accused you of a crime but you're not convicted, or even formally charged?

and what's that other thing called, that's like written on some piece of paper, it says something about I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX and X.

i cant remember...

hmm...

Civil something...

Civil partnerships?

OMGWTF???? GAYS WANT TO GET MARRIED??? HOLY SHIT GOOD LORD JESUS IN HEAVEN HAVE MERCY, THEM GODDAMN FAGGOTS AND DEMOCRATS WANT TO DESTROY AMURRUCA.

3/3/2007 1:20:07 AM

Quote :

"whats that shit called when someone has accused you of a crime but you're not convicted, or even formally charged?"

OK everyone is innocent before proven quilty. But come on! Shouldn't a lawmaker's ethical reputation not be even tainted by a whiff of corruption before they start telling us what we can and cannot do?

Quote :

"Jefferson has been under federal scrutiny for nearly two years. His well-publicized case includes FBI video tape of him allegedly accepting a cash bribe, $90,000 of which federal authorities say was later found stashed in a freezer in his home."

How about this Ms. Pelosi. Why not tell Rep. Freezer-guy that once the investigation "clears" him completely of any bribery problems, he will then be reconsidered for another key high-security committee position. Until then, we're going to see if we can find a congressman who isn't under federal investigation for corruption.

[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 1:29 AM. Reason : .]

3/3/2007 1:29:13 AM

Quote :

"OK everyone is innocent before proven quilty. But come on! Shouldn't a lawmaker's ethical reputation not be even tainted by a whiff of corruption before they start telling us what we can and cannot do? "

well, i dont pretend to know all the details about Jefforson's case. the snippets ive heard in the press do sound pretty incriminating. but he still hasnt been formally charged, much less tried and convicted. if the case were so open and shut, you'd think maybe they'd file charges on the guy.

and so if what you suggest would become standard practice, could you imagine how easy it would become to disable a powerful committee member? any accusation of impropriety, true or not, automatically removes them from consideration of important committee seats?

and hell, its not like hes going to be committee chair or co-chair or something. its not like hes going to have any kind of leadership position.

EVERY congressman in the majority gets put on at least *ONE* committee, SOMEWHERE. Many get put on multiple comittees.

so they put him on one where he might actually be able to do some good work. he comes from the state seriously devastated by one of the worst storms in the countrys history. He might have some idea of what needs to be done.

Besides, the FEMA organization has been riddled with nothing but charges of impropriety and inefficiency since it was absorbed by Bush's big daddy government monstrosity we call Homeland Security. all that department does is hemhorrage cash. Go ahead, put Jefferson in there, he can probably make his way around pretty well.

3/3/2007 1:40:57 AM

^^ Exactly.

^^^ I mean, c'mon, the FBI videotaped the guy taking the fucking bribe money--and they found $90,000 of it in his freezer, which he could not otherwise explain! If he were not a congressman, he'd already be in jail! I hold my elected officials to a higher standard on that kind of shit--maybe you don't.

^ I don't agree, but fine--put him on a committee that does NOT look at classified information!




[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 1:47 AM. Reason : .]

3/3/2007 1:44:54 AM

if the case is so open and shut, why havent they filed any charges?

^ every freaking congressional committee looks at classified information. just merely being a congressman automatically gives you DoD Secret clearance for general information.





[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 1:52 AM. Reason : ]

3/3/2007 1:47:24 AM

^ Obstruction of the FBI investigation--look it up.

3/3/2007 1:48:37 AM

you look it up for me. I havent seen any video. I havent seen any evidence. Its not my job to sit in judgement.

all i know is there are some accusations, but no charges.

last i looked, we lived in this country called "USA" which was founded on some principle or other about not getting locked up because someone said some shit about you.

3/3/2007 1:50:32 AM

besides, if he is guilty, he'll be going to Jail soon enough. and then he and Randy "Duke" Cunningham can sit around swapping Classified DoD info while they play spades and roll Topp cigarrettes.

3/3/2007 1:56:37 AM

House Ways and Means >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> House Homeland Security

He's been sufficiently demoted by Speaker Pelosi.

3/3/2007 2:00:01 AM

^^^ I never said he should be locked up--not yet. I posted that he shouldn't be appointed to the Homeland Security Committee, which handles highly classified information.

^^ ?

[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 2:00 AM. Reason : .]

3/3/2007 2:00:16 AM

Quote :

"I never said he should be locked up"

but you effectively want him hobbled, shackled, and on house arrest.

Quote :

"I posted that he shouldn't be appointed to the Homeland Security Committee, which handles highly classified information."

what part of "every congressman is on a committee, and every congressional committee handles classified information" do you not understand?

Quote :

"House Ways and Means >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> House Homeland Security He's been sufficiently demoted by Speaker Pelosi. "

Kay_Yow wins.




[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 2:32 AM. Reason : ]

3/3/2007 2:25:01 AM

face it, the GOP is so seriously rocked by sexual, financial, and legal scandals, they are just frothing at the bit to get the one democrat they can find who appears to have ethical problems and hold him up as some sort of grand example.

the House Homeland Security Committee is one of the least important, least powerful committees. The fact that it handles classified material is irrelevant. Every congressman handles classified info. ITS FOUNDATIONAL TO THEIR OFFICE. and the defense related material is still edited by the NSA and DoD to keep tactical information suppressed.

this is a non-fucking-issue thats trying to be spun by the Republicans into something more than it is, in the hopes that it will slow the acceleration of their own downward spiral.

3/3/2007 2:31:12 AM

^hypocrit

3/3/2007 7:49:47 AM

This is why it's a serious problem:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1114/p09s01-coop.html

Quote :

"Democrats will not disappoint We pledge to make this the most honest, ethical, and open Congress in history. By Nancy Pelosi WASHINGTON The morning after the election, I received a powerful reminder of why so many of us choose public service as our life's work. While walking into my office, I ran into a group of schoolchildren who had come to visit the Capitol. Talking with them reminded me of the solemn responsibility each generation has to the ones that follow. Their enthusiasm and energy spoke more powerfully than any words could that they are inheritors of the future we choose to build today. This year, voters elected Democratic candidates from every region of America, giving Democrats the majority in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, and entrusting us with a great deal of responsibility for building that future. With their votes, the American people asked for change. They cast their ballots in favor of a New Direction. They called for greater integrity in Washington, and Democrats pledge to make this the most honest, ethical, and open Congress in history. The American people called for greater civility in how Congress conducts its work, and Democrats pledge to conduct our work with civility and bipartisanship, and to act in partnership - not partisanship - with the president and Republicans in Congress. I met with President Bush at the White House two days after the election, and we both extended the hand of friendship. We recognized that we have our differences, and we will debate them as our Founding Fathers intended, but we will do so in a way that gets results for the American people. The American people called for greater economic fairness, and we pledge to work for an economy that enables all Americans to participate in the economic success of our country. Nowhere was the call for a New Direction clearer than in the war in Iraq. The strategy of "stay the course" is not working, has not made our country safer, has not honored our commitment to our troops, and has not brought stability to the region. The president's acceptance of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's resignation on Wednesday is an encouraging step. It's an opportunity for a fresh start in Iraq, and I hope it's a precursor to a change in policy. With integrity, civility, and fiscal responsibility as our guide, Democrats intend to move forward with the agenda for change on which we were elected. We will: • Make America safer by implementing the recommendations of the 9/11 commission. • Make our economy fairer by raising the minimum wage and ending taxpayer subsidies for sending jobs overseas. • Make college more affordable by cutting the interest rates on student loans. • Improve healthcare by allowing Medicare to negotiate for lower prescription drug prices and promoting stem-cell research. • Achieve energy independence within 10 years by investing America's energy dollars in the Midwest instead of the Middle East. • Guarantee a dignified retirement by improving Medicare, protecting Social Security, and making it easier to save for retirement. These items are not just the Democratic agenda; all of them enjoy broad bipartisan support. Democrats will work with members of both parties to secure their passage, because progress will not be victory for any one party, but for all of the American people. Democrats do not see our congressional majorities as the end point in a long and hard-fought campaign, but rather the starting point - an opportunity to work on behalf of all Americans. The American people - many Republican and independent voters among them - entrusted Democrats with their hopes and aspirations for themselves, their families, and their future. We are prepared to lead and ready to govern. We will honor that trust, and we will not disappoint. • Nancy Pelosi is currently the Democratic leader of the House of Representatives. In January, she is expected to become speaker of the House, the first woman ever to serve in that capacity. "

She wrote that a week after the Democrats won the November election.

Then, the next few stories that came up were about how she wanted to put Jefferson on HSC, Alcee Hastings (the federal judge convicted of taking bribes and lying under oath who was kicked off the federal bench) as the CHAIRMAN of the House Permament Select Committee on Intelligence, and how she backed John Murtha (the unindited co-conspirator in a Middle Eastern bribery scheme) to be the Majority Leader of the House.

3/3/2007 8:55:09 AM

Let's see:

Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA) - Under investigation for ties to disgraced lobbyist, Jack Abramoff; Currently serving on the House Appropriations Committee

Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA) - Under investigation for inserting earmarks to benefit friend and lobbyist, Bill Lowery; Currently serving on the House Appropriations Committee (formerly the chair)

Rep. Gary Miller (R-CA) - Under investigation for real estate deals; Currently serving on the House Financial Services Committee

Rep. Rick Renzi (R-AZ) - Under investigation for a land swap deal and illicit ties to ManTech International; Currently serving on Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence

And those are just some who are currently being investigated...if we want to dig back in the vault, we can talk about Bob Ney's service on Financial Services or Duke Cunningham's seat on Appropriations or...hell...Tom Delay as Majority Leader, but I think you get the point.

3/3/2007 12:24:16 PM

I honestly think that doesn't excuse it. The Democrats had a golden opportunity to show people they could do better than the Republicans, and they've basically fucked it up in every possible way. I don't give a shit if there's other guys under investigation or whatever, Republican or Democrat. I am completely for innocent until proven guilty, but this shit was on tape. It's open and shut.

3/3/2007 2:08:15 PM

Quote :

"well, on the surface, I admit, I'm like WTF?? but, take a deep breath and think for a second.... whats that shit called when someone has accused you of a crime but you're not convicted, or even formally charged? and what's that other thing called, that's like written on some piece of paper, it says something about I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX and X. "

Where were you during the Foley fiasco? Someone should have been there to tell us "innocent until proven guilty"

3/3/2007 2:46:30 PM

if you were paying attention you would know that most of the foley story involved the fact that denny and co knew about it years before it became news.

plus he resigned way too fast for committee assignments to be a concern

3/3/2007 3:05:03 PM

Quote :

"I am completely for innocent until proven guilty, but this shit was on tape. It's open and shut. "

o rly? you should send a memo to Bush's man at the Justice Dept. what's his name?

oh, yeah. Gonzales.

i'm sure he'd like to hear about that.

http://www.usdoj.gov/dojofficials.htm

202-514-2001

3/3/2007 4:43:59 PM

Quote :

"I honestly think that doesn't excuse it. The Democrats had a golden opportunity to show people they could do better than the Republicans, and they've basically fucked it up in every possible way. I don't give a shit if there's other guys under investigation or whatever, Republican or Democrat. I am completely for innocent until proven guilty, but this shit was on tape."

no, spooky wins.

this shouldnt be a who did what worse pissing contest. Democrats should play high ball, and ask him to forgo his seat for an appointment or replacement until he investigation ends.

3/3/2007 5:53:51 PM

Look, I hate this guy. I've disliked him since he hijacked (essentially) a military helicopter to go check on his house in New Orleans while other people were fuckin' drowning. But for reasons that escape my understanding, he was re-elected, so he gets to be treated as an equal member of the body.

Beyond that, though, the idea of the presumption of innocence is so much bigger than one seat--I'd much rather have this guy on some stupid committee than to erode the bedrock of our criminal judicial system.

3/3/2007 6:49:43 PM

^ well said.

if the allegations are true he should be removed from congress in disgrace and locked up for a considerable time and fined an appropriate amount of money to repay what he had stolen and/or misappropriated. I'll be glad to see the motherfucker gone, and if a Republican gets the seat, thats just the way it goes.

but im not on the grand jury, im not a judge and im not privy to the prosecuting attorneys' case. So until they at least come up with some formal goddamn charges, he's just another elected congressman with full rights and responsibilities.

just like the slew of republican shitlickers being investigated for criminal charges. I'll be ready to gloat and cheer as soon as they are convicted, but until then they havent been formally charged, so they are still the elected congressman of their district and therefore retain all rights and responsibilities guaranteed their office.

this is the goddamned USA, and if you College Republicans dont like it, go fucking move to Saudi Arabia or Iran with your spiritual and political soulmates.







[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 10:15 PM. Reason : ]

3/3/2007 10:10:53 PM

Were all the liberals promoting this "Innocent before proven guilty" idea with the Duke boys?
If so, I couldn't hear it over all the pot banging and Black Panther marching footsteps.

3/3/2007 10:32:40 PM

Quote :

"Where were you during the Foley fiasco? Someone should have been there to tell us "innocent until proven guilty""

well, i might have, but as soon as the allegations surfaced, ol' MAF54 logged out, resigned his Congressional Seat and checked himself into a fancy rehab for alcohol and sex addiction.

kind of a moot point, wasn't it? if he hadn't had the highest levels of GOP sweeping it under the carpet for several years, he might have been able to resolve the issue and still be congressman. Hell, if they'da addressed that issue years ago when they should have, the Republicans might have been able to keep both house of Congress. who knows?

so, while i understand your anger and frustration at your party's implosion, you can't blame your failures on one ethically challenged congressman from Louisiana. Go clean your own house. its still lookin pretty filthy.

3/3/2007 10:32:59 PM

Quote :

"Were all the liberals promoting this "Innocent before proven guilty" idea with the Duke boys? If so, I couldn't hear it over all the pot banging and Black Panther marching footsteps."

I've always thought that was a serious miscarriage of justice going on there.

Nifong should be investigated, and possibly removed from office and/or disbarred. and some officials at Duke probably should be sanctioned.

but thats a regional issue that I dont have a stake in.

3/3/2007 10:37:54 PM

Quote :

"so, while i understand your anger and frustration at your party's implosion, you can't blame your failures on one ethically challenged congressman from Louisiana. Go clean your own house. its still lookin pretty filthy."

I am a Libertarian. The republican's party was their own fault, and it had a lot less to do with Foley than you think. Its sad that American politics have finally disintegrated to the point where "My shit stinks less than yours" actually counts as a party line.

3/3/2007 11:32:53 PM

Quote :

"The republican's party was their own fault, and it had a lot less to do with Foley than you think. "

i know that the Repubs had way more problems than just Mark Foley. But Foley was one of the major shocks that seriously damaged support from their traditional allies, the Religious Right. the Democrats won largely due to the swing voters and disaffected conservatives staying home. if there were no Foley scandal, I'd bet that the the republican loss would not have been so great. would it have been enough to shift one or both houses? maybe not. but many, many races were awfully damn close.

Quote :

"I am a Libertarian. "

no need to apologize. in this country, you're free to throw your vote away if you choose.

But as a big-L Lib, if you only hold one thing sacred, its the Bill of Rights. I know, I used to be one.

Quote :

"Its sad that American politics have finally disintegrated to the point where "My shit stinks less than yours" actually counts as a party line."

american politics have always had an element of choosing the "lesser of two evils". thats nothing new.

but if youre suggesting that anyone is saying its okay for Jefferson to be on a committee because there are unindicted Republicans on committees, then youre either missing the entire point of the previous posts, or your just being willfully ignorant.

no one is saying that. certainly not me. Im saying that theres a fundamental tradition that our country was founded upon and its enshrined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and its called "innocent until proven guilty". In this case, not only has the man not been proven guilty, he hasn't even been charged with a crime.

what part of this do you not understand?

Now if he gets charged, then I will agree that you'll have merit to say he should recuse himself from committee -- and you can cite precedents. Just like when pubic officials are suspended pending outcome of civil or criminal proceedings.

But for you to holler that he needs to step down before being charged, well you're just jumping on the same bandwagon that of the totalitarian statists that you Libs continually rail against as trying to bring about some sort of big brother police state.

3/4/2007 12:40:04 AM

meet the new party, same as the old party.

3/4/2007 10:01:11 AM

not yet

3/4/2007 4:28:31 PM

Quote :

"I'd much rather have this guy on some stupid committee than to erode the bedrock of our criminal judicial system."

I agree. But what is more important to Americans? The perception of how our government is run? Or how it really is supposed to be run? And i ask that in the fullest sense of discourse.

Either way there is no good way to deal with this guy. Keep him in Congress and uphold rule of law. Or remove him because the public court of opinion has spoken?

Pelosi gets props for deciding on what to do and sticking with it, no matter how hot the water gets from the minority party.

3/4/2007 9:50:58 PM

Quote :

"last i looked, we lived in this country called "USA" which was founded on some principle or other about not getting locked up because someone said some shit about you."

*cough*dukelacrosse*cough*

3/5/2007 12:22:24 AM

*cough*the whole*cough*ing thingisobnoxious*cough*

3/5/2007 12:25:18 AM

i do what i can, dear

3/5/2007 3:25:05 PM

duke lacrosse is a great example.

right now as we speak mike nifong is having a statue built of him. oh wait, no, he is hated by about 90% of the state and 98% of the country.

3/5/2007 11:05:14 PM