Diode propulsion could power microbots
http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/dn11386?DCMP=Matt_Sparkes&nsref=bot

3/15/2007 2:49:18 PM

They can figure that out, but no one can fix the damn tww clock.

3/15/2007 2:53:29 PM

or produce winning sports seasons

3/15/2007 2:57:46 PM

What department would this be in? This sounds interesting.

3/15/2007 3:00:50 PM

I saw "McRib."

3/15/2007 3:18:45 PM

This is awesome. Imagine just injecting some bots into the body and have them kill cancer cells, or unblock arteries. Although, playing devil's advocate, you could use these as one helluva blackmail. pay me 5k or ill send the robots to start killing your brain and penile tissue.

3/15/2007 3:47:31 PM

so where are the hot robot sluts?

3/15/2007 4:14:38 PM

^^ Not sure that will be any more effective than "pay me $5k or I'll shoot you in your brain and penile tissue."

3/15/2007 4:21:26 PM

but living in a bond movie would be so much cooler

3/15/2007 4:23:05 PM

This is awesome. Nanotech FTW.

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"so where are the hot robot sluts?"

http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10532-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=21006&messageID=400972&start=-1

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"Not sure that will be any more effective than "pay me $5k or I'll shoot you in your brain and penile tissue.""

It might be a bit harder to track down.

3/15/2007 4:25:01 PM

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"It might be a bit harder to track down."

Have you watched CSI lately?

3/15/2007 7:34:37 PM

Spooky shit, GoldenViper. I don't like the idea of machines passing the Turing test.

3/15/2007 10:09:11 PM

The Outer Limits TV show has done several episodes about "nanobots." In an episode called "Small Friends," Gene Morton, a jailed scientist, has created incredible microscopic robots that can fix anything mechanical. But when another inmate sees their amazing abilities, he demands that the microbots either break him out of prison or the scientist will be killed.

http://www.mgm.com/title_title.php?title_star=NEWOUT-ROBOT

[Edited on March 15, 2007 at 10:24 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2007 10:24:15 PM

How's that play against Asimov's rules of robotics?

3/15/2007 10:24:59 PM

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"One topic within this area that has, as yet, been relatively unexplored, is how human-robot relationships will develop when robots become super-intelligent and acquire emotions. My take on this is that an increasing percentage of the adult population will enjoy emotional relationships with robots, including love and sex, and that by the middle of this century or thereabouts the first human-robot marriages will be taking place. "

1) I'm always skeptical about claims like this, it smacks of the Popular Science crowd crowing about flying cars and whatnot.
2) Emotions often being irrational responses in the human brain based on chemical surges, could a machine designed to put logic uber alles express any true emotion, or would it merely be logical responses to human interaction?

[Edited on March 16, 2007 at 5:36 AM. Reason : ?]

3/16/2007 5:32:49 AM

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"Have you watched CSI lately?"

Never watched that show. I didn't say it'd be impossible to track down, just harder.

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"I don't like the idea of machines passing the Turing test."

Well I do. Shit, I want convert as quickly as I can. I'm all about remaking my brain and body with better hardware. It's gonna kick ass. Just imagine a body made of diamondoids or some such. You'd be a living comic book hero.

It'd raise some philosophical questions, of course. If I rewired my brain with superior materials, would that amount to suicide? It's an old question. I don't think so. The pattern matters the most. The form, not the substance.

I just hope I live to see it all. I doubt I'll be rich enough to enjoy it, but it'll be a good show.

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"How's that play against Asimov's rules of robotics?"

We've already broken those. Have seen that story about those South Korean turrets? Hell, the U.S. army wants autonomous robotic soldiers by 2035 or so.

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"I'm always skeptical about claims like this, it smacks of the Popular Science crowd crowing about flying cars and whatnot."

Have you actually looked at the evidence behind the claims? The hardware will certainly be there soon. Processing power keeps on increasing. It's just a matter of a getting the software right. They're already working on it, on reverse engineering the human brain.

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"Emotions often being irrational responses in the human brain based on chemical surges, could a machine designed to put logic uber alles express any true emotion, or would it merely be logical responses to human interaction?"

We should be able to copy everything. Even in short term, they think giving robots emotions will make them better workers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/connected/2007/02/18/nrobot18.xml

3/16/2007 7:40:42 AM

Interesting article, but a few points:

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"If a robot feels happy after it has cleaned a dirty carpet particularly well, then it will apparently seek out more dirt to do the same. Similarly, if the robot feels guilt or sadness at having failed at a task, it will try harder next time."

It seems like its programmed to do the same thing either way. I'm playing devils advocate here, but how can a robot try more or less hard than it has to in order to accomplish the task? If it fails due to unforseen circumstances it can learn from that, but is that "trying harder"? Its not like it knew what to do in the first place and didn't do it because it felt lazy.

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"Other scientists have found that by replicating the feeling of hunger, their robots will realise their batteries are getting low and seek to "feed" themselves by recharging."

Yeah, its called a low battery indicator, you're just programming the robot to find a power source on its own as opposed to relying on an outside source.

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""Emotion is very important for humans. For example if a human is chased by a bear, they experience fear and they learn from that experience not to get close to bears. Robots need the same thing."

I can see this if your trigger certain stimuli in the robot that would cause him to believe that the particular event he is expereinceing is indeed a threat, and not just an unknown situation, he could react.

To reach optimal effeciency, robots would have to be programmed along the lines of Bayes' theory and inter-linked so they could cross-feed learned experiences through a shared network. At least thats my initial reaction, but I'm far from an expert at this.

3/16/2007 8:38:27 AM

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"Have you actually looked at the evidence behind the claims? The hardware will certainly be there soon. Processing power keeps on increasing. It's just a matter of a getting the software right. They're already working on it, on reverse engineering the human brain."

I have to agree with the "popular science" quote. People think AI is right around the corner. Magazines have always hyped up the smallest possibility as being a guarantee in the future. By now we should have flying cars, live on mars, have robots do all our labor. I don't think so.

Yea, processing power is always increasing, but that doesn't really mean much. Like you say "it's just a matter of getting the software right." That statement is just a bit naive. I don't think the complexity of the human brain, which took millions and millions of years to arrive where it is, will be replicated in a few short years by humans. Especially when computers have already been around for decades and the best thing we have on the market is a goddamn robot vacuum cleaner.

3/16/2007 9:06:40 AM

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"People think AI is right around the corner."

It is.

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"I don't think the complexity of the human brain, which took millions and millions of years to arrive where it is, will be replicated in a few short years by humans."

We've already done good work on the human genome. Yeah, it looked almost hopeless at first, but the project finished about on time. Progress tends to increase exponentially.

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"Especially when computers have already been around for decades and the best thing we have on the market is a goddamn robot vacuum cleaner."

These things are measurable. We can estimate how much processing power the human brain has. We know how quickly processing power advances. Earlier predictions didn't have as much of a basis in fact.

And there's this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4196052.stm.

3/16/2007 9:21:23 AM

Yes, I understand that we could match the "processing power" of the human brain soon. I'm saying that that doesn't mean anything. You don't just have that much power, hit a button, and create AI. Intelligence is not a raw function of power. In fact, if that was the case, we'd already have AI. It would simply think slower than we do.

Regarding the household robot you linked to: slightly interesting. I think the face recognition is neat, but nothing amazing or shocking about it and I don't see anything there resembling intelligence.

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"We've already done good work on the human genome. Yeah, it looked almost hopeless at first, but the project finished about on time. Progress tends to increase exponentially."

So we've mapped the entire human genome... I don't know if you cite that as an example of technology increasing or our understanding increasing. Like I said, raw processing power does not imply intelligence. Also, we didn't miraculously know everything about the human body after mapping the genome and I would say we probably know the least about the brain.


So when exactly is it you think we'll have real artificial intelligence? This should be interesting.




[Edited on March 16, 2007 at 9:39 AM. Reason : words]

3/16/2007 9:26:43 AM

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"I think the face recognition is neat, but nothing amazing or shocking about it and I don't see anything there resembling intelligence."

It was just to counter your bit about the Roomba being as good as it gets.

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"I don't know if you cite that as an example of technology increasing or our understanding increasing."

I cited it as an example of exponential progress.

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"Like I said, raw processing power does not imply intelligence."

You're quite correct. We need both the hardware and the software, both of which look to be on the way.

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"Also, we didn't miraculously know everything about the human body after mapping the genome and I would say we probably know the least about the brain."

We don't have to know everything about the brain to copy its structure.

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"So when exactly is it you think we'll have real artificial intelligence? This should be interesting."

We already have various types of AI. (Very limited ones, of course.) Human-level AI could be coming as soon as 2029.

3/16/2007 9:58:50 AM

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"We don't have to know everything about the brain to copy its structure."

No but what we don't know is rather extensive, and thats not even counting Rumsfeldian "what we don't know that we don't know" scenarios.

Interestingly enough, I think the attempts to create AI will lead us to a greater understanding of the human mind. Furthermore, even if AI was created around the corner, the time it would take for economies of scale to kick in and make them affordable is still a ways off.

Also, do we even know what AI is? We don't wholly understand the mental machinations of the dog, which has been our closest non-human partner for 1,000s of years. As an Economics major, I'm playing devils advocate as much as anything else since I'm not completely up to speed with robotics.

[Edited on March 16, 2007 at 10:40 AM. Reason : .]

3/16/2007 10:37:35 AM

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"nterestingly enough, I think the attempts to create AI will lead us to a greater understanding of the human mind."

Certainly. And once strong AI gets started, it should quickly go completely nuts. Electronic thinking could be literally a million times faster than biological thinking. With that kind of advantage, copies of smart people should be able to dramatically advance all the sciences with ease.

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"Furthermore, even if AI was created around the corner, the time it would take for economies of scale to kick in and make them affordable is still a ways off."

Indeed, though probably not more than about a decade away. It depends on how expensive the first one is.

3/16/2007 10:49:14 AM

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"once strong AI gets started, it should quickly go completely nuts"

At that point, what purpose do human's serve?

3/16/2007 11:10:55 AM

We'll all probably want to get the hardware upgrade as well.

3/16/2007 11:20:58 AM

physically or mentally?

3/16/2007 11:31:47 AM

What do you mean? People who cling or are limited to biological brains won't be able to match those with better hardware.

How much that comes to matter remains to be seen.

3/16/2007 11:47:26 AM

That goes back to my point. If you've got, for lack of a better term, a "robot brain" then are you even human? If not, what is the use of humans? What purpose do they serve. Are you even you if you replace your brain with an electronic one?

[Edited on March 16, 2007 at 1:27 PM. Reason : .]

3/16/2007 1:26:20 PM

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"If you've got, for lack of a better term, a "robot brain" then are you even human?"

We'll have to see, but I think so. Such beings should act like humans. They'll probably look like humans too, both in virtual reality and with synthetic bodies.

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"If not, what is the use of humans? What purpose do they serve."

The same as before. But it does likely that AIs, once created, will become the centers of power sooner or later.

[qote]Are you even you if you replace your brain with an electronic one?[/quote]

That's the question, yes.

3/16/2007 1:34:26 PM

I don't think its a we'll have to see question. It's a pretty here and now philosophical question.

3/16/2007 2:29:53 PM

yeah, I saw that outer limits episode. it wwas aight.

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"We don't have to know everything about the brain to copy its structure. "

then, how do you propose to copy something that you don't know everything about? seems a bit counter-intuitive, if you ask me.

3/16/2007 11:40:32 PM

Well, we will need a considerable understanding of the brain to use that knowledge to create strong AI. This project is already underway. But we won't have to have unlocked all the mysteries about the brain, thinking, and consciousness at that point.

3/17/2007 8:22:35 AM

I for one welcome our new microscopic overlords!

3/17/2007 11:01:25 AM