http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530762.ece

Quote :

"The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week."

they don't give percentages though, which could mean 51% think they are better off

3/18/2007 3:42:47 PM

i didn't click on the link, but using what you quoted:

optimistic != life is better

life now is much much worse for ordinary iraqis than it was under saddam.

(what rock have you been under for the past 2-3 years?)

i guess they are more "optimistic" now because they know the violence will die down in a few years, whereas with saddam, they would have had to wait until he died, and then his sons would have taken over.


[Edited on March 18, 2007 at 4:24 PM. Reason : ]

3/18/2007 4:06:14 PM

yeah life is worse for an iraqi

unless you're a Kurd or a shiite

3/18/2007 4:18:09 PM

Yeah, Iraq was so much better.





V This is not trolling; this is reality--and you just don't like it.

[Edited on March 18, 2007 at 4:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2007 4:22:30 PM

troll

3/18/2007 4:23:17 PM

THIS COULDNT GO IN THE ALREADY EXISTING THREAD?

3/18/2007 4:50:30 PM

I seriously have to question how that poll was taken.

This just doesn't make sense

Quote :

"One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today. Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month. "

I can't believe it. One in four with a family member murdered? And in less than one month time the percentage of those thinking a civil war was happening dropped from 61 to 27%?

How retarded do these people think we are?

3/18/2007 4:53:42 PM

http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=67
poll release.

list of clients include a smattering of businesses, The conservative party, and some other groups.
add-
for the poll itself I have to question their method. I find it hard to say any poll where you are doing face to face interviews is scientifically random.

ignoring that, there are some really bad numbers in there. like under 50% of respondents have a job, and over 30% say no one in their home has a job.

[Edited on March 18, 2007 at 5:57 PM. Reason : e]

3/18/2007 5:51:38 PM

must be that the surge is working

3/18/2007 6:01:13 PM

Quote :

"And in less than one month time the percentage of those thinking a civil war was happening dropped from 61 to 27%?"

you misread the quote. It's just two ways of saying nearly the same thing.

It says that as of last month, 27% think there is a civil war, 61% think there is not a civil war, and therefore presumably 12% who have no opinion.

3/18/2007 6:25:37 PM

some people just cant read numbers very well... guess we will give him a break

3/18/2007 8:14:25 PM

Quote :

"i guess they are more "optimistic" now because they know the violence will die down in a few years, whereas with saddam, they would have had to wait until he died, and then his sons would have taken over. "

=pretty much exactly what I've been saying all along

3/18/2007 9:33:56 PM

Quote :

"Pessimism 'growing among Iraqis'"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6464277.stm

Huh?

3/18/2007 10:17:07 PM

2 different polls. one conducted by ABC of 2000 people and one conducted by this british group of 5000 people. Drastically different results. Like I said, I cant see how the british one was actually random, but I dont know anything about the ABC poll. could be just as invalid.

3/18/2007 11:58:08 PM

At some point, Iraq has to get better, and the Iraqis have to realize this too at some point. Optimism is inevitable.

What can we do to aid this process is the real question. We already know that this war has been going on for a good long time, lots of people have died, we've screwed up a lot of infrastructure, and destabilized a lot of the country. We "just" need to to have as THE main priority to rebuild and re-stabilize stuff for the Iraqis as fast as possible, despite any finger pointing.

3/19/2007 12:45:17 AM

I'm not sure face-to-face interviews are so bad.

However, 49% is not "most." In this case, it's a plurality, but 42% thought things were either better or as good under Saddam. The rest refused to answer or didn't know.

And the BBC poll seems to have gotten different results on almost every question:

Quote :

"Only 18% said they had confidence in US and coalition troops, and 51% said they thought attacks on coalition forces were justified. However, only 35% said foreign troops should leave Iraq now. A further 63% said they should go only after security has improved."

Weird. It seems some Iraqis think that attacks on foreign troops are justified, but that they should still stay until security improves.

Quote :

"And just 38% said the situation in the country was better than before the 2003 war, while 50% said it was worse."

Also, only 21% of people said US forces are making the security situation better, yet 38% want US and coalition forces to remain in the country until security is restored.

3/19/2007 7:54:28 AM

Quote :

"MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today. "

HOW DARE you even PRESENT this viewpoint

There is a consensus amongst the majority of TSB posters that Iraq is better off now, how dare you cite some biased conservative bible thumping oil interest blog

3/19/2007 8:43:38 AM

49% is not "most."

3/19/2007 8:46:50 AM

Did you just make that number up? Cause its not in the article

3/19/2007 8:51:36 AM

I actually read the poll report.

3/19/2007 8:55:24 AM

Really, all 76 pages? Wow it must have taken you awhile to calculate that percentage. Did you come up with the same margin of error as the summary did?

And a bigger question, if 49% of people think Iraq is better...isn't that number close enough to 50% where people should think "wait a minute...maybe its not as completely onesided as all the morons in this thread would lead you to believe?"

3/19/2007 9:04:31 AM

Quote :

"Wow it must have taken you awhile to calculate that percentage."

Not really. I'm extremely smart.

Quote :

"Did you come up with the same margin of error as the summary did?"

I corrected a few mistakes for them, yeah.

3/19/2007 9:12:38 AM

nice work

so about my 2nd point...the one about 49% being close enough to "half" where it doesnt seem as onesided as the fools in the other thread would lead you to believe?

3/19/2007 9:14:37 AM

As I said, in the BBC poll, 50% think things are worse now for the country as a whole.

50% actually is half.

Of course it's a complicated problem, and many Iraqis are very happy to have Saddam gone (as they should be).

3/19/2007 9:18:49 AM

I didn't think ANY Iraqi's were happy to have him gone...thats what all the people who have never been to Iraq told me

3/19/2007 9:20:29 AM

It's not my fault you have strange ideas.

But using either of these polls to declare victory in Iraq is pure spin.

3/19/2007 9:29:32 AM

i dont think anybody is claiming victory in iraq based on any polls

I do however think there is certainly evidence contrary to the bullshit skewed 99%/1% perspective presented throughout the other thread by imbeciles like State409c

3/19/2007 9:31:17 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-03-18-poll-cover_N.htm
2000 people. Also face to face interviews.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraqpoll/poll4/flash.htm

Quote :

"Shiites are the most optimistic that their children will have a better life than they have had; two-thirds express optimism about that. So do half of the Kurds polled. But seven of 10 Sunnis predict that their children's lives will be worse. The pessimism was universal among the Sunnis who live in Baghdad: 100% of those surveyed said their children would have a worse life than they have had."

Quote :

"Three in 10 say they would move to a different country if they could."

Quote :

"Kurds are relatively sanguine: Two-thirds say they feel "very safe" in their neighborhood. In contrast, fewer than one-third of Shiites and only 3% of Sunnis agree."

Things are pretty over there no matter how you spin it.

Oh and treetwista, reading through a 76 page poll is pretty easy when there are only 11 questions about peoples opinion, with the rest being factual questions like "where do you live?" "how old are you" these wonderful things called crosstabs add a lot of space.

3/19/2007 10:39:13 AM

so you're admitting that there are indeed plenty of people who live in Iraq who like modern-day Iraq better than Saddam-controlled Iraq

3/19/2007 10:45:25 AM

you have two options here tree. recant your view that things are going well, or say we should leave.

3/19/2007 10:49:04 AM

those sound like the same option

and no i will not ignore all the iraqis who refuse to believe your external outside view of whats right for them...i'm sure you'd prefer a police state in america to anarchy if iraqi's on an internet messageboard thought that was the best thing for you since obviously "stability" is better than freedom, according to you

3/19/2007 10:56:20 AM

Quote :

"and no i will not ignore all the iraqis who refuse to believe your external outside view of whats right for them..."

How about of the large majorities of Iraqis who think the US is screwing up their country?

3/19/2007 11:31:08 AM

50% = "large majorities of Iraqis" ??

3/19/2007 11:40:30 AM

76% think the US is doing a bad or very bad job. 78% oppose the presence of US troops. 69% think the US troops are making security worse. 77% think the US is playing a negative role in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/19_03_07_iraqpollnew.pdf

[Edited on March 19, 2007 at 11:45 AM. Reason : RTFR]

3/19/2007 11:44:16 AM

Quote :

"As I said, in the BBC poll, 50% think things are worse now for the country as a whole"

and what about the silent majority of people who dont have time to answer polls because they're so busy enjoying freedom

3/19/2007 11:46:51 AM

Quote :

"and what about the silent majority of people who dont have time to answer polls because they're so busy enjoying freedom"

Or hiding from the violence that's become so common.

OMF ALL POLLZ ARE T3H SUX0RZ!

[Edited on March 19, 2007 at 11:52 AM. Reason : quote]

3/19/2007 11:51:24 AM

Quote :

"Q2. Compared to the time before the war in spring 2003, are things overall in your life much better now, somewhat better, about the same, somewhat worse, or much worse? 2007: Much Better - 14% Somewhat Better - 29% About the Same - 22% Somewhat Worse - 28% Much Worse - 8% Refused/don't know - N/A"

Much Better + Somewhat Better = 43%
Much Worse + Somewhat Worse = 36%
About the Same - 22%

so tell me again where the hell you're coming up with your figures? This is a direct quote from the BBC poll's PDF file

3/19/2007 12:01:10 PM

It's not my fault you can't read, Twista.

I did not reference that question.

3/19/2007 12:03:58 PM

what is the title of this thread?

3/19/2007 12:04:48 PM

And now you're trying to move the fucking goal posts.

I said:

Quote :

"How about of the large majorities of Iraqis who think the US is screwing up their country?"

You said:

Quote :

"50% = "large majorities of Iraqis" ??"

3/19/2007 12:06:10 PM

my bad i thought you were talking about what the thread was about

btw i didnt notice any questions with "screwing up" in the title...I even did a search since you were so adamant in that last post

3/19/2007 12:10:01 PM

Look at page 15-16, questions 24, 25 and 29.

3/19/2007 12:14:55 PM

i dont think your semantics-based argument is nearly as important as the fact that there are indeed a shitload of iraqis who DO think their country is better off than it was

trying to extrapolate the poll data to the whole population would obvious be unreliable...but it seems clear that plenty of Iraqis prefer freedom to "stability"

3/19/2007 12:25:38 PM

^then they get blown up by a car bomb while going to the market for bread.

3/19/2007 12:29:19 PM

better than getting executed by a govt-appointed death squad because you dared to go buy bread

3/19/2007 12:30:50 PM

^yeah, now there are multiple "government backed" death squads.

3/19/2007 12:33:37 PM

yet when all combined, their numbers pale in comparison to saddam's one big death squad

3/19/2007 12:34:41 PM

^not when you factor in the reality that they measure their successes by the number of rival group members they kill, and the overall level of destruction caused.

3/19/2007 12:37:57 PM

no i mean the numbers of members of individual death squads pale in comparison to the number of members in saddam's death squad...members, not casualties

3/19/2007 12:40:56 PM

I get that, but I'm pretty sure a death squad of 100,000 people that kill 10 is much better than one with 10 members that kill 100,000.

3/19/2007 12:46:47 PM