... and substitution predictions that Lowe will go with... I know even Sidney doesn't know yet cause he hasn't seen Gonzalez, Degand, Hickson, and Johnson in action but... just for fun

PG - Degand
SG - Fells
SF - Grant
F - Costner
F/C- McCauley

^THAT, I would think would be the beginning of the season... subbing in Hickson for Costner, McCauley or whoever. Maybe Hickson will start if he shows up very strong in the first couple game. Johnson will be getting in for Fells when eligible, or even Hickson in for Fells and Grant at SG and then we'd have a very tall lineup. Possibilities will be enormous. Horner has even proved to be a great 8th/9th man next year AND if Sidney wants to go DEEP like Roy then Ferguson could buy a minute or two. This is all if scholarships and players hold up too of course.

3/21/2007 12:23:22 AM

Sidney's not going to go that deep. He's like valvano -- starters get a lot of minutes. He values experience and continuity. We will play 8, at most. All the people expecting Fells and Grant to be bumped out of starting spots will be disappointed.

3/21/2007 12:37:13 AM

I Posted this on Pack Pride:

Here's my opinion of the positions, the people who will play them, and the time they will get at that position per game.


C: McCauley (20) Hickson (20)
PF: Costner (20) Smith (12) McCauley (8)
SF: Grant (24) Costner (10) Horner (6)
SG: Fells (25) Horner (7) Gonzales (5) Ferguson (3)
PG: Degand (25) Johnson (10) Gonzales (5)

So total MPG

Costner (30)
McCauley (28)
Degand (25)
Fells (25)
Grant (24
Hickson (20)
Horner (13)
Smith (12)
Johnson (10)
Gonzales (10)
Ferguson (3)

3/21/2007 12:37:32 AM

costner won't be coming back

3/21/2007 12:40:05 AM

^ why would he transfer? He'd have to sit out a year...

There's no way he transfers when he's virtually guaranteed a starting spot at a top 25 school.


Don't be stupid.

3/21/2007 1:06:25 AM

^while im sure you're being funny you know transfereing wasnt what he was refereing to

3/21/2007 1:20:39 AM

I like it when people explain obvious jokes

3/21/2007 1:37:22 AM

costner /= pro material... when it comes to leaving early at all

3/21/2007 1:44:06 AM

nowhere close

but i'm hoping he wont fall victim to josh powell syndrome

3/21/2007 1:47:58 AM

AndyMac, you left off johnny thomas.

and i'd be surprised if costner went pro after this year. however, i'd be surprised if he did NOT go pro after the following year, although i would be very happy if he stayed.

3/21/2007 3:12:51 AM

Since Sid plays a NBA style offense, there isn't as much incentive for players to leave early like when Herbie played the princton style, they are actually getting developed into an NBA prospect by staying, while Herb killed their careers with every minute they played.

3/21/2007 4:54:15 AM

Quote :

"C: McCauley (20) Hickson (20) PF: Costner (20) Smith (12) McCauley (8) SF: Grant (24) Costner (10) Horner (6) SG: Fells (25) Horner (7) Gonzales (5) Ferguson (3) PG: Degand (25) Johnson (10) Gonzales (5)"

that's stupid

we won't play 11 guys

3/21/2007 5:39:43 AM

hickson is definitely starting at center. the guy would've been in the nba draft if it weren't for the new rule that's forcing him to stay out for a year. he's likely a one-and-done. also, mccauley isn't a center. he was playing out of position because we don't have a center. it's just like how everyone keeps thinking atsur is a pg when he really is a sg playing out of position because we don't have a pg worth a damn.

pg - degand (johnson, carrot top, davis)
g/f - fells (horner)
g/f - grant (horner)
pf - costner (mccauley, harris)
c - hickson (lewandowski)

i think gonzo, johnny thomas, and tracy smith will redshirt.

3/21/2007 6:45:31 AM

in college, the majority of centers are power forwards. It really isn't playing out of position to have a 4 play a 5

3/21/2007 7:59:02 AM

^^ right on

as a five star recruit mcdonald's all-american, hickson better start

3/21/2007 8:03:58 AM

for those of us who lose track of recruiting...whats the word on this Degand feller

3/21/2007 8:08:15 AM

the curse of #33

3/21/2007 8:09:59 AM

I wonder if Costner will slide back to SF. We could play with a really big line-up if he did.

PG- Johnson
SG - Grant
SF - Costner
PF - McCauley
C - Hickson

The smallest guy would be 6'4".

But I think the first line-up is pretty accurate for the initial starting line-up. Next season is going to be interesting for Lowe, he will have a lot of players with a lot of expected talent, just has to try to make everyone happy and effective.

There is no way Hickson sits unless he's hurt, he had to get promised alot of PT to come here. And I'd much rather see him at center and move McCauley to his more natural PF position. We drafted Costner for SF so we could slide him back too. But have you noticed that Fells has been getting more and more time at point? I expect the starting line-up to look more like this:

PG - Fells
SG - Grant
SF - Costner
PF - McCauley
C - Hickson

It should be interesting to see how our players cope with going from 35+ minutes a game to about 25 minutes. Hopefully they'll prefer it.

3/21/2007 8:35:12 AM

someone post the full roster for next year plz

3/21/2007 9:05:39 AM

Quote :

"We drafted Costner for SF"

haha we did not draft Costner

3/21/2007 9:13:50 AM

Per StateFansNation as of Jan 7th. I moved Bart to the Freshman class
http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2007/01/07/confirmed-marques-johnson-to-nc-state/

Quote :

"Projected 2007-2008 NC State Basketball Roster Senior Class (1) Gavin Grant (2G/3F) Junior Class (2) Courtney Fells (2G) (3) Ben McCauley (4F/5C) Sophomore Class (4) Brandon Costner (3F/4F)* (5) Trevor Ferguson (2G/PG) (6) Dennis Horner (3F) (7) Farnold Degand (1PG/2G) Freshman Class (8) Bartosz Lewandowski (5C)* (9) Johnny Thomas (3F) (10) JJ Hickson (5C/4F) (11) Tracy Smith (4F) (12) Marques Johnson (PG) (eligible after first semester) HS Senior Commits (13) Julius Mays (PG) (1) CJ Williams (3F/2G) [Gavin Grant’s old scholarship]"

[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 9:33 AM. Reason : .]

3/21/2007 9:23:35 AM

Would Bart be a Redshirt F?
and what about this Gonzales kid?

3/21/2007 9:26:48 AM

Yeah, not sure why that's not noted. It'll be nice to have a deeper bench

Degand is a transfer from Iowa State

My best bet on a roster is
PG Degand
SG Grant/Fells
SF Costner/Horner
PF McCauley
C Hickson


[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 9:36 AM. Reason : .]

3/21/2007 9:29:21 AM

right no gonzalez?

3/21/2007 9:29:38 AM

starting pg next year = ferguson

3/21/2007 9:33:04 AM

More than likely Courtney is going to run the point and we will just run a bigger line up with Hickson here....

PG - Fells
SG - Grant
SF - Costner
PF- McCauley
C - Hickson

3/21/2007 9:36:40 AM

yeah, Hickson would not be going pro if not for the new rules. He's not even top 10 among HS players - meaning he most likely wouldn't be drafted. And thinking he's going to start at the beginning of the year is delusional. He'll get significant minutes, but there's no way in hell they start him over McCauley. Its def. possible for later in the season, but he's not going to come in and start.

Also, Costner is too slow (at least this season) to guard ACC small forwards - so him playing the 3 is most likely going to be a rarity unless he gets quicker this off season. The only time I'd expect it is if he can match up favorably against a slower smaller 3.

Also, Degand can run the point fairly effectively - plus we'll have a backup in Javi (Who is a true 1). No need for Fells to be the primary ball handler.

[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 9:39 AM. Reason : a]

3/21/2007 9:37:37 AM

Quote :

"in college, the majority of centers are power forwards. It really isn't playing out of position to have a 4 play a 5"

i know this. mccauley was recruited to play pf. simmons was our center, but he left. brackman was simmons' backup eventhough he was actually a pf too, but he left. with hickson, mccauley can move back to his more natural position. and if bartosz lewandowski doesn't work out, then mccauley and costner would obviously back hickson when necessary.

i was really suprised mccauley held up so well as a center this season. he shocked me with his moves in the post. same goes for costner. their time as "centers" this season will only make them stronger for next year. we're going to have a true, dominating center. i expect coach lowe to draw up some fancy plays to exploit matchups when hickson, costner, and mccauley are all the court. who's going to defend costner and mccauley in the post when hickson draws the opponents' center out to the perimeter? i can't fucking wait!

3/21/2007 9:38:02 AM

i predict a serious point gaurd error next year that costs us many games

3/21/2007 9:38:23 AM

Oh and Bart is expected to get his medical redshirt so he'll be a RS Freshman next year.

3/21/2007 9:41:09 AM

Fells or Grant will be starting at point guard next year, unfortunately.

We'll be very lucky if either Degand, Johnson or Gonzalez is worth a damn by the time they are upper-classmen.

Lets be realistic. They are transfers and unheralded late signings. Just look at the track record of guys like that. Just look at Ferguson (transfer) and Dom Mejia (unheralded late signing). There have been plenty of others who have not panned out, and very few that have actually done well.

Tony Bethel was pretty bad when he transferred in, but by the time he was a Senior he was decent. We'll be lucky if one of these three guys turns out as good as Bethel.

3/21/2007 9:50:13 AM

Quote :

"Also, Costner is too slow (at least this season) to guard ACC small forwards - so him playing the 3 is most likely going to be a rarity unless he gets quicker this off season. The only time I'd expect it is if he can match up favorably against a slower smaller 3."

True to a point, but keep in mind mismatches go both ways. If you have two talented players, it comes down to which team is better at exploiting the mismatch. I think this is a major strength of Sidney Lowe.


While it is true that most ACC teams really run a three guard offense, there are some that have true forwards at the three. Jason Cain is one example, and Costner is more talented and athletic. If Sidney expects Costner to play more at the three, I would expect him to come in quicker, and possibly lighter next season. If Coster will play more at the four, he may come in with a bit more bulk. Since this was the first season coming back from his injury, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a quicker Costner next year. The good news is he is talented and versatile enough to give us good production at both spots.

3/21/2007 9:55:24 AM

It's going to be REALLY interesting to see how our lineup goes.

To start the year, we'll be starting those with experience over those with potential. So here's my starting lineup with subs:

PG - Degand
SG - Fells (Horner)
SF - Grant (Horner)
F - Costner (Hickson, Smith)
F/C- McCauley (Hickson)

That puts us at 8 deep, which is a lot, but I don't see us giving significant playing time to many more than that. Possibly add in Gonzalez or Thomas as a sub, depending on how they look early.

Then a few weeks into the season it'll start to change based on the subs performance. After this point is a total crapshoot because we really don't know how they'll perform. My best guess is:

PG - Degand (Gonzalez)
SG - Fells/Grant
SF - Grant/Costner (Horner)
F - McCauley/Costner (Smith, Horner)
F/C- Hickson

That knocks us up to a 9 man rotation, which seems too high....but who aren't you going to play there? It's obvious that they're committed to developing Horner and he's our best outside shooter(unless a newcomer takes that role). It seems like people are sleeping on Smith, but he could be really, really good in time. Fells could really see his time decrease if he continues to play like he did late in the year. Despite fan concerns, Grant will play a high number of minutes as our only senior. He could easily be the star on this team next year, or he could continue to dampen his great offensive numbers with endless turnovers. Who knows?

I could easily see Gonzalez not getting much PT. I don't expect Bart, Thomas, or Johnson to get much playing time this year. Out of those three, Thomas could be the sleeper though.

3/21/2007 10:00:40 AM

I am hoping that the off season will give lowe time to fix grant

3/21/2007 10:06:39 AM

Quote :

"Fells or Grant will be starting at point guard next year, unfortunately. We'll be very lucky if either Degand, Johnson or Gonzalez is worth a damn by the time they are upper-classmen. Lets be realistic. They are transfers and unheralded late signings. Just look at the track record of guys like that. Just look at Ferguson (transfer) and Dom Mejia (unheralded late signing). There have been plenty of others who have not panned out, and very few that have actually done well. Tony Bethel was pretty bad when he transferred in, but by the time he was a Senior he was decent. We'll be lucky if one of these three guys turns out as good as Bethel."

fells and grant will not start at pg. are you crazy?!?

marques johnson was a 4-star recruit and ranked #21 as a sg. his move to pg shouldn't be very difficult for him. farnold degand almost committed with herb, but chose iowa state instead. he was a top player in boston. as for gonzo, i've only seen very good things about him. he probably will never start until his jr or sr year, but he'll provide quality depth.

you can't judge fergie yet. the dude is a redshirt freshman. he got all of like 3-4 minutes in the couple of games he played. as for mejia, he played like 5 minutes a game for us. who's to say how he would've developed had he stayed?

you have to consider that we have 4 former point guards who are coaches on our team, and 2 of them won national championships. i think i'll trust them when it comes to evaluating talent and developing a point guard.

3/21/2007 10:14:19 AM

PG: Bartosz
SG: Bartosz
SF: Bartosz
PF: Bartosz
C: Bartosz

3/21/2007 10:18:34 AM

Johnson and Degand were both recruited by most schools as shooting guards.

Trying to convert a SG to start at PG their first year in the ACC is begging for disaster. Also, Johnson won't be able to play until the spring. He'll miss out on the cupcake games in the fall that are crucial for freshmen to get that comfort level in college ball.

Gonzalez is a 3* recruit, much like Degand was. 3* recruits usually don't pan out in the ACC. They almost never pan out at PG, where you have to be fast as shit and a great ballhandler to compete with the other ACC guards. Look at Mike O'Donnell for reference.

[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 10:28 AM. Reason : 2]

3/21/2007 10:19:54 AM

you should leave sports talk.

3/21/2007 10:25:50 AM

You're still bitter because I pwnt you in the Parker vs Cotchery debate. Eric Parker pwnt you as well with that abortion of a game in the playoffs.

3/21/2007 10:31:22 AM

Quote :

"yeah, Hickson would not be going pro if not for the new rules."

I agree with that. He has a PF body (not a C) and from what I have heard and seen he doesn't have a very good midrange game yet, which won't cut it in the NBA for someone his size. He'll be great against unathletic big men like Hansbrough and bitchmade big men like McRoberts but he'd get eaten alive at the next level right now and I think his pro potential is a bit uncertain because of that (unlike, say, an Andrew Bynum when he was drafted).

I imagine that Hickson will play very significant minutes but start the season on the bench... if only because we really don't want Grant being our 2..

I see it as this:

1Degand
2Fells
3Grant
4Costner
5McCauley

Once Johnson is eligible I think we might see a lot of times when Fells plays the 1 as Johnson seems to be more of a 2 as well and Fells saw a good deal of time at the 1 this year and seemed pretty comfortable with it..

[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 10:33 AM. Reason : x]

3/21/2007 10:31:32 AM

i didn't say hickson would be a pro. i said he would declare for the draft. i have no idea if he would've been picked up, but it's certainly possible. i mean, i was astonished when cedric was a lottery pick. i was like, "shiiiiiiiiit, he must've known what the fuck he was doing when he declared!"

Quote :

"You're still bitter because I pwnt you in the Parker vs Cotchery debate. Eric Parker pwnt you as well with that abortion of a game in the playoffs."

riiiight. you didn't have shit to say for days after my post. then, parker has an uncharacteristically baaaaaaaaaad game, and you jumped back in with the, "see, i told ya!"

and i had forgotten all about that thread, until just now. i certainly didn't remember i was debating with you, or any of the others. it took me a moment to figure out you were talking about eric parker vs. cotchery. i was thinking, "willie parker vs. cotchery? wtf kind argument was that?!"

[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 10:38 AM. Reason : ]

3/21/2007 10:35:24 AM

Alright, let's stick to the topic. How the hell is a 2* SG recruit who hasn't played in 2 years and has never played college ball gonna step in and run the point?

Quote :

" Farnold Degand Info (out of hs, 2005): *rated a 2 star by rivals.com *Height: 6-foot-4 *Weight: 165 pounds *AAU Team: BABC *Shooting: Good *Rebounding: Developing *Handle: Outstanding *Passing: Outstanding *Strength: Good *Quick two-guard with good first step. Needs to become more consistent with outside shot and get stronger. Will turn 17 middle of senior year in high school. "

3/21/2007 10:39:35 AM

I'm looking forward to seeing Degand play just so I can hear a plethora of commentators say the name "Farnold"

3/21/2007 10:40:27 AM

Quote :

"*Handle: Outstanding *Passing: Outstanding "

3/21/2007 10:40:48 AM

remember, when bethel was here atsur played SG, so i feel that degand and johnson could easily move to pg...and gonzalez and mays will be our pgs of the future more than likely

3/21/2007 10:43:21 AM

It's really pointless to try and project what a PG will do in such a high level college conference like the ACC based on recruiting ratings. I mean, for fucks sake, Greg Paulus was rated higher than Monta Ellis. I'm sure the Warriors would rather have Monta at this point..

What they did in high school or what they were projected to do is really irrelevant. Some kids can't handle the intensity of the 1 at an ACC level and some kid. Until their out on the court we won't know.. At least we have OPTIONS at the point... I'm sure Coach K would love to stick Paulus as an off guard and have someone worth a damn to run point but he doesn't have that option..

** Bethel was a damn good player at Georgetown too. He would've been great here if he could have stayed healthy

[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 10:45 AM. Reason : x]

3/21/2007 10:44:37 AM

it's going to come down to either marques or farnold starting. they're not completely raw, true freshman. they're going to have almost 2 years learning from 4 former pg's (2 national champions and an acc champ). and as i said, i have full confidence in our coaches to develop point guards.

now, i'm not saying they're going to be ty lawson, but look at him. he's a true freshman. crittenton, another true freshman. i think johnson and degand will both be able to hold their own as pg's. a shooting guard to point guard isn't a big jump. it's not like we're going to be asking a power forward to man the offense for us.

additionally, as ac slater pointed out, "outstanding handling and passing".

[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 10:52 AM. Reason : ]

3/21/2007 10:47:54 AM

I hope you're right.

The conversion from SG to PG isn't always easy. I think it's more likely that they follow the Cliff Crawford route and struggle for a few years with the intricacies of running an offense and distributing the ball on a break.

I doubt that Degand or Johnson will be ready next year. More likely, we'll play a half-court set with Grant and Fells bringing the ball up.

If 1 of the 3 guards we have coming in can become a defensive stopper like Crawford was, I'll be very happy. Fells and Grant couldn't stay in front of the quicker guards this year.


[Edited on March 21, 2007 at 10:58 AM. Reason : 2]

3/21/2007 10:56:49 AM

Quote :

"3* recruits usually don't pan out in the ACC."

Signed:

- Zabian Dowdell **
- Coleman Collins ***
- Jamon Gordon ***
- ACC Player of the Year Jared Dudley ***
- Sean Marshall ***
- John Oates ***
- Tyrese Rice **
- Vernon Hamilton ***
- K.C. Rivers ***
- Al Thornton ***

3/21/2007 10:59:27 AM

Well, be sure to get your hopes up really high like you people did with Trevor Ferguson.

3/21/2007 11:01:31 AM