Dunno if you guys had read about this one, but the NYPD was spying on this guy before the RNC in '04 and then arrested him prior to the event on so called "Criminal Mischief" charges for no real reason besides he had come up with a clever way to protest.

News Article: http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/04/kinberg_0410
His Site: http://www.bikesagainstbush.com/blog/

You take this kind of action, in conjunction with the so-called "free speech zones" during the DNC of '04 and wrap it all together with the invitation-only, scripted, two party presidential debates...

It just doesn't look very much like democracy folks.

4/12/2007 4:09:14 PM

What else is new?

4/12/2007 4:15:09 PM

Well, there was a suicide bombin in Iraq today...

4/12/2007 4:18:05 PM

sounds like a pretty sweet bike

but i guess technically it was vandalism?

4/12/2007 4:18:21 PM

It's CHALK!

4/12/2007 4:40:21 PM

COME ON OFFICER, IT WAS ONLY SPRAYPAINT, HOW IS THAT VANDALISM

4/12/2007 4:41:52 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVdcufwOGHo

4/12/2007 4:43:34 PM

^^ That's a very nice strawman argument.

4/12/2007 4:45:52 PM

it was spray chalk, not spraypaint

4/12/2007 4:46:49 PM

how does my strawman argument change the fact that even water soluble chalk is technically vandalism?

it doesnt

i think its a cool bike...but if you go around writing stuff all over the place on public property...surprise, surprise, thats vandalism!

4/12/2007 4:48:06 PM

I'm glad that you've learned there is such a thing as a strawman argument, however, you need to learn what it is. In fact, there is one in your post.

and chalk is not considered vandalism.

4/13/2007 1:36:36 AM

Quote :

"and chalk is not considered vandalism"

4/13/2007 1:16:42 PM

Chalk != vandalism

4/13/2007 1:17:41 PM

Quote :

"i think its a cool bike...but if you go around writing stuff all over the place on public property...surprise, surprise, thats vandalism!"

he didn't get convicted of vandalism AND they kept his stuff as "evidence" for long after he had been released.

4/13/2007 1:19:56 PM

^^quote me the NYC law that specifies that

4/13/2007 1:33:08 PM

You quote me the law that doesn't.

4/13/2007 1:35:26 PM

ok here it is

you are pwnt

Quote :

"Generic Graffiti includes random markings, declarations of love, graduation events (“Class of 2005”), and other non-threatening messages. GRAFFITI IS A CRIME Graffiti vandalism is a crime punishable by a jail term, monetary fine, and/or community service. Any person caught defacing property without the express permission of the owner will be arrested."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/sbs/nycbiz/html/managing/graffiti.shtml

just because it was non threatening doesnt mean its not vandalism...though i figured a simple knowledge of the meaning of the word vandalism wouldve clued you in on that

4/13/2007 1:48:02 PM

and then 3 of the 4 parts of the law lower in that link mention specifically ONLY "aerosol spray paint" and "indelible markers"

4/13/2007 1:50:52 PM

i went to the article and watched the video of him being arrested


I AM FUCKING ANGRY NOW

4/13/2007 1:52:11 PM

^^and?

what does pointing out one of the laws about intent to vandalize with spraypaint have to do with the bicycle's chalk being classified as "generic graffitti" which "IS A CRIME"

4/13/2007 1:58:35 PM

Chalk isn't generic graffiti though. You gonna start arresting 10 yr old girls trying to play hop scotch in the streets of Queens?

4/13/2007 2:05:29 PM

^

4/13/2007 2:07:06 PM

^^no but that doesnt mean drawing a hopskotch court on the sidewalk isnt technically vandalism

if i creep to 1 mile per hour at a stop sign in a completely empty intersection before turning right, a cop might not pull me over, but technically i would have run the stop sign

i posted that link, the least you can do is read it

4/13/2007 2:08:07 PM

good point twista

but then that means you are back to arguing the point we are trying to make. you're saying "so what, he was committing a crime." fine, then enforce it uniformly. but you know as well as the rest of us, and i'm sure you agree, that it is completely absurd and laws written for things like that are to be used against extreme cases. there was nothing wrong with what he was doing and it was completely reprehensible that he was arrested, the manner in which he was arrested, and the amount of time it took him to be arrested. it's obvious that even the cops didn't know whether they could arrest him, fuckin idiots.

4/13/2007 2:13:08 PM

Quote :

"^^no but that doesnt mean drawing a hopskotch court on the sidewalk isnt technically vandalism"

So you had to retreat to "technicalities"? What's next, just admitting the absurdity of what you are trying to argue?

4/13/2007 2:16:33 PM

retreat to technicalities?

laws are technicalities

let alone how the fuck am i retreating when in MY FIRST POST of the thread i said

"i guess technically it was vandalism"

i could give two shits about this dude or the RNC he was protesting

i'm simply pointing out that what he did was against the law since the link didnt sufficiently convince you

4/13/2007 2:24:56 PM

so they should have held his laptop for a year?

4/13/2007 2:30:49 PM

no they didnt handle the situation well, never claimed they did

but the guy was breaking the law...he wasnt just minding his business

4/13/2007 2:31:36 PM

Why don't they arrest hop scotchers? Why don't they arrest people for half the old laws that are still on the books? What is the point of your posting if you aren't going to contribute to the discussion in a very worthwhile manner?

4/13/2007 2:33:15 PM

I actually took the time to read your link, and chalk still doesn't equal graffiti. Why don't you quote the relevant parts of it rather than cherry pick to try and set up your wrong argument.

Quote :

"WHAT IS GRAFFITI? Graffiti, or “tagging” as it is commonly referred to on the street, is the etching, painting, covering or otherwise placing a mark upon public or private property, with the intent to damage such property. Graffiti can either be painted or applied with a marker, crayon, pencil, pen, or other homemade tool. Some vandals etch their tags into plastic, glass, metal, or wood surfaces with a drill bit, metal object, sandpaper, or a rock."

Chalk isn't intended to damage, and it doesn't damage.

4/13/2007 2:36:30 PM

nice job of cherry picking yourself

except what you posted was irrelevant

Quote :

"Generic Graffiti includes random markings, declarations of love, graduation events (“Class of 2005”), and other non-threatening messages. GRAFFITI IS A CRIME Graffiti vandalism is a crime punishable by a jail term, monetary fine, and/or community service. Any person caught defacing property without the express permission of the owner will be arrested.""

Chalking "Class of 2005" on the sidewalk might not be intended to damage property either, but its technically vandalism

Unless you want to somehow explain how what the cyclist did wasnt classified as 'generic graffiti'

4/13/2007 2:39:28 PM

It has been defined that graffiti is random markings intent to damage property. Thats an absolute. I didn't define it, NYC did. Can you not read that section? Replace "Generic Graffiti" in your post with "markings intended to damage" since that is how it is defined, and then discover that chalking doesn't mesh. This isn't hard man.

It's also pretty obvious from the language in that link they are targeting gang activity where tagging and other malicious intent is happening, not people with chalk. Get a clue.

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 2:44 PM. Reason : chalk <> vandalism]

4/13/2007 2:42:49 PM

Quote :

"Replace "Generic Graffiti" in your post with "markings intended to damage" "

why dont you tell nyc.gov to change their wording since thats what i've been quoting the entire time

do you not see where even "declarations of love, graduation events (“Class of 2005”), and other non-threatening messages" are still crimes "punishable by a jail term, monetary fine, and/or community service. Any person caught defacing property without the express permission of the owner will be arrested"?

it seems to me your personal views on this issue dont go along with NYC's laws...you might want to take it up with them and maybe convince them to change their laws instead of harrassing me for simply informing you of their laws

do you keep ignoring this part?

Quote :

"Generic Graffiti includes random markings, declarations of love, graduation events (“Class of 2005”), and other non-threatening messages. GRAFFITI IS A CRIME "

IT...IS...A...CRIME

4/13/2007 2:49:48 PM

Quote :

"it seems to me your personal views on this issue dont go along with NYC's laws...you might want to take it up with them and maybe convince them to change their laws instead of harrassing me for simply misinforming you of their laws"

Quote :

"why dont you tell nyc.gov to change their wording since thats what i've been quoting the entire time"

Why should I tell them to change their wording when it says exactly what it needs to say, that chalking isn't vandalism, it isn't graffiti. You're the moron that can't understand that.

Make another post.

4/13/2007 2:53:56 PM

Thats great, graffiti is a crime, but the NYC doesn't define chalking as graffiti. Surely you can connect P and Q, right?

4/13/2007 2:54:58 PM

why dont you read the section titled TYPES OF GRAFFITI you moron

surely you can read the last type of graffiti...i've only quoted it for you like 3 times

Quote :

"TYPES OF GRAFFITI Hate graffiti is the making of any offensive slogans or symbols towards a person’s race, color, religion, ethnicity, culture, or sexual orientation. Gang Graffiti is used by gangs to mark territory, send warnings to rivals, or for economic gain. It may include letters, symbols, or numbers known to gangs and law enforcement agencies. Satanic Graffiti appears throughout the City illustrating occult and satanic symbols. Pentagrams, crosses, inverted chalices, satanic words, and skeletal figures are a few examples of this category of graffiti. Street Graffiti consists of “tags,” “throw-ups,” and “pieces.” A “tag” is the vandal’s street signature, applied quickly and repetitively. A “throw-up” is a more elaborate version. A “piece,” short for “masterpiece,” is a large mural-like drawing. Generic Graffiti includes random markings, declarations of love, graduation events (“Class of 2005”), and other non-threatening messages. GRAFFITI IS A CRIME"

how is chalking the sidewalk not "generic graffiti" by their definition?

4/13/2007 2:55:15 PM

Are you stupid? It's a serious question. Or are you trolling. All this stuff

Quote :

"Generic Graffiti includes random markings, declarations of love, graduation events (“Class of 2005”), and other non-threatening messages."

if done in this manner

Quote :

"etching, painting, covering or otherwise placing a mark upon public or private property, with the intent to damage such property. Graffiti can either be painted or applied with a marker, crayon, pencil, pen, or other homemade tool. Some vandals etch their tags into plastic, glass, metal, or wood surfaces with a drill bit, metal object, sandpaper, or a rock."

Would indeed be vandalism.
But chalking doesn't do this

Quote :

"damage such property"

It isn't vandalism.

You're trolling right, since you have been shown to be incorrect about all this? That is the only thing I can figure.

4/13/2007 2:59:41 PM

Quote :

" how is chalking the sidewalk not "generic graffiti" by their definition?"

If you think NYC defined graffiti in one way, and then 100 words later defined it in a different way, you might have a case. But they didn't and you don't.

4/13/2007 3:00:42 PM

so you're saying that chalking "Class of 2005" on the sidewalk is graffiti and is a crime...since the article says that

but chalking something else nonthreatening on the sidewalk, like his protests of RNC, are NOT graffiti and therefore NOT a crime?

Quote :

"You're trolling right, since you have been shown to be incorrect about all this? That is the only thing I can figure."

I think we need some other people's opinions on this since we are clearly at a disagreement

4/13/2007 3:01:19 PM

Quote :

"so you're saying that chalking "Class of 2005" on the sidewalk is graffiti and is a crime"

Are you stupid? How do you get I "said" any of that, when for about 10 posts it's pretty clear I wasn't? I can see why people don't like you around here.

4/13/2007 3:02:41 PM

^the article says it as clear as day

Quote :

"Generic Graffiti includes random markings, declarations of love, graduation events (“Class of 2005”), and other non-threatening messages"

so is chalking "Class of 2005" on the sidewalk graffiti or not? Should we trust the nyc.gov website which explicitly states it in the quote I just used, or should we trust you and your inability to interpret words?

Quote :

"I can see why people don't like you around here."

why is that because i dont go around saying "yeah man! fuck the republicans! whooo!"

4/13/2007 3:04:05 PM

it doesn't say anything about chalk, yet it does say something specifically about indelible markers and spray paint.

4/13/2007 3:06:12 PM

^sarijoul do you think that marking "Class of 2005" on the sidewalk may or may not be graffiti, depending on what type of marker/paint/chalk is used?

Are yalls individual political biases clouding your ability to read how New York City defines different types of vandalism?

4/13/2007 3:08:22 PM

i think it specifically depends on what is used to mark it.

i mean if i sprayed water to say class of 2005 would that be graffitti?

[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2007 3:09:15 PM

Quote :

"Graffiti, or “tagging” as it is commonly referred to on the street, is the etching, painting, covering or otherwise placing a mark upon public or private property, with the intent to damage such property. Graffiti can either be painted or applied with a marker, crayon, pencil, pen, or other homemade tool. Some vandals etch their tags into plastic, glass, metal, or wood surfaces with a drill bit, metal object, sandpaper, or a rock."

so the whole "otherwise placing a mark" isnt specific enough for you?

Would the only way you'd be convinced that the guy was technically vandalizing the sidewalks if the NYC laws had the word 'otherwise placing a mark with chalk' somewhere in it?

4/13/2007 3:11:04 PM

The NYC law should be a little more clearer, like Provo

http://www.provo.org/parks.graffiticrime.html

(1) "Graffiti" means any form of unauthorized printing, writing, spraying, scratching, affixing, or inscribing on the property of another regardless of the content or nature of the material used in the commission of the act.

Though even they seem to contradict themselves

"Graffiti implement" means an aerosol container, a felt tip marker, paint stick, etching instrument, or any other device containing paint, ink, chalk, dye or similar substance which is not water soluble and has a point, brush, applicator or other writing surface of three eighths of an inch or greater, or when used or applied is capable of defacing glass, metal, concrete or wood.

4/13/2007 3:12:32 PM

Well maybe the laws should be clearer

But AS CURRENTLY WORDED, I think what he was doing was technically vandalism

Quote :

"otherwise placing a mark upon public or private property"

doesnt mention chalk...doesnt mention water soluble, etc

4/13/2007 3:17:03 PM

Quote :

"I think what he was doing was technically vandalism"

It can't be technically anything when language in the text contradicts itself. This is why we have judges and people with more education than you to determine it. I mean, you can "think" all you want, but you're just a hack on a message board. This thread is done.

4/13/2007 3:21:46 PM

Quote :

"It can't be technically anything when I PERSONALLY FEEL the language in the text contradicts itself. This is why we have judges and people with more education than you AND ME to determine it. I mean, you can "think" all you want, but you're just a hack on a message board, just like me. Except I'm an alias of a hack. This thread is done"

4/13/2007 3:23:09 PM

someone could just follow that guy on another bike with a pressure washer on the back.

4/13/2007 3:23:20 PM