I'm getting kinda pissed with the selection of houses in the are we're moving to. Seems like for the SF, either they're low $200s and shitholes (location and/or condition), or over $300k, and I haven't found one yet that I totally like. I'm considering building and want to spend $250k or less. One way to do this might be to be my own contractor, but I obviously don't specialize in this ...

1. Need land ... perked or passes a perk test (unless we go with well/rainwater and solar or some other nontraditional stuff). I've found 3 I want to look at and figure it'll cost about $75k.

2. Need blueprints ... can get them for about $3000 for reproducable ones or for 6-8 copies, depending where I go.

Now for the actual construction ...

3. Foundation dug, poured, inspected.
4. Framing and roof put up and house wrapped and framing inspected
5. HVAC installed and inspected
6. Plumbing installed and inspected
7. Electrical installed and inspected
8. Misc other wires, like coax, cat5/cat6, telephone installed and inspected
9. Sheetrock
10. Paint
11. fixtures ... cabinetry, lights, doors, etc.
12. Flooring
13. Final inspection
14. Polishing touches so we can move in

I have no idea how much each step will actually cost - does anyone have any experience? I've heard houses generally cost $75-$100/sf to build, but I figure that varies a LOT based on materials and preferences. I'm going to estimate:

3. 12k
4. 30k
5. 8k
6. 5k
7. 5k
8. 2k
9. 4k
10. 2k (I can do this part)
11. 30k
12. 15k
13. 0.5k
14. 0.5k

Either I have severely underestimated, or we can build for less than $200k. A typical project if started before August 1 can potentially be done by the end of October. Whatcha think?

5/15/2007 11:22:46 PM

http://www.ubuildit.com/

5/15/2007 11:24:59 PM

I've heard of them - do you have any personal thoughts or experiences with them?

5/15/2007 11:26:40 PM

no personal experience with building

a friend of my family owns a franchise locally and it seems like a great business and I would def. look into it if I had the opportunity/was looking into building a house myself

5/15/2007 11:31:01 PM

ubuildit is great (IMO)


also check out modular homes, they're really well built and the best bang for your buck...


and appreciate the same as a house, since well... it's a house

[Edited on May 15, 2007 at 11:37 PM. Reason : ^AJ at the garner one is great]

5/15/2007 11:37:21 PM

don't forget to insulate!
&windows

5/15/2007 11:47:32 PM

I've never built a house, but the people I know who have go through seemingly endless problems; then they write a check for 25% of the cost of the house to the builder and move in. It's probably worth it if you have time and don't mind constant problems though.

I can refer you to some good contractors though if you do decide to go it alone. I have excellent referrals for electrical, sheetrock, and kitchen design/install. My sheetrock guy is a licensed general contractor, so he might be able to help in other areas...I don't know.

[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 12:24 AM. Reason : l]

5/16/2007 12:23:08 AM

Builders earn their money.

5/16/2007 12:32:36 AM

Good luck trying to be a GC.

You'll quickly find out that there is a reason why people pay them a lot of money.

PS you forgot landscaping, water / sewer / dry utility connections, insulation and roofing, off the top of my head.

[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 12:44 AM. Reason : 2]

5/16/2007 12:34:58 AM

Most houses now days are cost + 10% to the contractor. If he subs the work out to himself, he can charge whatever he wants really

5/16/2007 12:42:46 AM

your word you are looking here is TURNKEY

we tried to do it on our addition and ended up getting screwed by the people we hired to do the framing and all, really sucked and cost us $$ and is gonna be a pain to sue them.

it will save someeee money but it depends if you want to put up with the pain, headaches and the slowww rate at which it all happens.

good luck though and i recommend using some sort of solar panels or sunlights, they really save you a ton in the future I think, from what we have seen.

5/16/2007 12:45:27 AM

Quote :

"Builders earn their money. "

I agree. I hope I didn't give the wrong message with my post. My point is that it seems like a headache regardless. When your 6 month build hits it's 11th month it is hard not to be personally affected even though the builder is on top of things as much as possible.

[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 12:54 AM. Reason : l]

5/16/2007 12:54:06 AM

i'm building a house too and we are estimating $110. per square foot, but then again we are on the outer banks where all the prices are jacked up

5/16/2007 9:11:56 AM

anyone have some good modular/pre-fab builders?
We're house hunting in Wake county and Chatham county right now


Thing is we want to buy and move in by end of August..

5/16/2007 9:24:06 AM

^^ $110/ SF is jacked up? I've heard of plenty of beach houses in SE NC costing $150-175/ SF

5/16/2007 10:11:27 AM

jsut stop by any of the modular dealers... they're all really similar


not only are they almost half the sf price

they are built better


use 2x6 instead of 2x4 on interior walls

and use screws and bolts as opposed to nails

plus the house is completely square on the inside

5/16/2007 10:20:23 AM

^^ we are doing very basic materials & appliances...nothing high end at all

5/16/2007 10:30:48 AM

110 is still kinda high to not have higher end floors and surfaces

5/16/2007 10:39:43 AM

Check the DSIRE database for appliance and building rebates for energy efficient homes

http://www.dsireusa.org

5/16/2007 10:49:06 AM

A few things..

Even if you can start on August 1, it's unrealistic to think you can move in before, at best, December. You won't be able to start on Aug. 1st anyway. You'll need to close on the land first & already have your blueprints in hand, which may be July before you can do that. Then it'll take upwards of 2 months to get your building permit. Realistically, it'd probably be at least February/March, depending on weather.

You have to account for builders discounts. A house that costs an all-enclusive builder 200 to build will cost you at least 230 subcontracting things out.

Not trying to dissuade you, but even just building with an assembly line community builder is a pain in the ass. You may be better off just buying a 300k house.

5/16/2007 10:55:33 AM

^^^^ That's the number I've been hearing for a basic house out here.

5/16/2007 10:58:50 AM

pm sent

5/16/2007 11:09:41 AM

that number is with my fiance's dad building our house, so no contractors fee.

thats the high price we pay for living in this beatiful area

5/16/2007 11:22:39 AM

Can't help you much on the building suggestions, but I'll agree about the housing selection up here. I went through the same process and quickly realized that I would be spending more than I initially planned just to buy a decent house in a good location that would appreciate up here. You told me you're looking in Midlothian. Chesterfield also had some better homes but was too far from work for me. I liked the vibe up in Glen Allen as well but depends a lot on job and what area you're looking at. I also don't have kids so schools weren't a big factor in my mind other than thinking ahead to when I resell. I ended up buying a Centex spec house near my work which included rather large incentives and has already gone up in value. I can talk to ya more later via PM or IM.

5/16/2007 11:43:03 AM

I'm gonna try to go in order ...

1. Roof I figure goes with framing (I think I put that)
2. Insulation - yeah, I didn't write it down, but I was thinking it would get rolled in with the sheetrock job
3. Hooking up utilities - I figured the lines should be run before we do anything, so that would be part of the perking, right?
4. Windows - yep, windows and door should go in before sheetrock, or after?

I know GC's definitely earn their living. I don't want to go with cookie-cutter homes like the neighborhoods that go up en masse, though. I don't like the way they're cut up. Either the pieces are too big, too small, don't flow right, whatever. I'd LOVE to design my own floorplan, but I have found 2-3 I kinda like in magazines. My parents built a house, and they spent a total of about $130,000 including land and their home just appraised for $185,000. The problem is they hired a GC who was supposed to do all that good stuff like use 2x6 rather than 2x4 and DIDN'T, yet charged them for it. I like the idea of a service like ubuildit, because if these people fuck up, I have some recourse.

Modular ... one problem here is I want a brick home. I think they look nicer, they appraise higher, they're stronger, and they're naturally insulative. I haven't seen a single modular builder who will do brick - they make their $ on speed, not customization.

About these jobs - perhaps if I lay them out you'll see how I'm thinking we can do this so cheap.

3. Foundation dug, poured, inspected.
4. Framing and roof put up and house wrapped and framing inspected

These two will require contractors.

5. HVAC installed and inspected
6. Plumbing installed and inspected
7. Electrical installed and inspected
8. Misc other wires, like coax, cat5/cat6, telephone installed and inspected

We have various family members who do these for a living.

9. Sheetrock

This is something we can probably handle given that a number of family/friends have done it and had excellent results ... although if we're doing well on budget, this is definitely on the top of the "farm out" list

10. Paint
11. fixtures ... cabinetry, lights, doors, etc.

Paint and small fixtures like lights, toilets, etc. we can do. I'll pay someone to do windows, doors, and kitchen cabinetry just because they can do it more cost effectively than I can. And I don't have a floor jack for upper cabinets.

12. Flooring

Again, something we can do since I don't want carpet. Allergies.

13. Final inspection

Obviously gotta pay someone here ...

14. Polishing touches so we can move in

Can do myself if needed.



Where I'm shopping: yes, looking in Midlothian (23112, 3, 4) area of VA. Chesterfield (23832) does have some houses I've considered, but I'm just not really liking them. I've got a list of schools - that also doesn't help, because the exact same house is selling for 30%+ more if it's in a good v. bad school zone, regardless of the neighborhood. I've heard really bad things about Centex up there - hopefully your house isn't going to have any problems though! The incentives with them and other mass builders are nice, but I'm not planning to move for a long while, so I'd like to be happy with everything including the floorplan.

These seems to be my favorite right now, with a little modification:
http://www.orderhomeplans.com/exec/action/plans/browsemode/details/filter/BathMax.8%3bBathMin.3%3bBedMax.8%3bBedMin.5%3bSQFTMax.6000%3bSRmID.7%2c15/hspos/UBINET/page/2/planid/12608/section/homeplans?viewstate=tot.eNozBQAANgA2
http://www.sunplans.com/html/houseDisplay.php3?house=Four_Seasons_6&page=first_floor_plan

It's hard to find one I like that has all the features I want. The first one fits, but it's HUGE (read: too big), and the second one would fit but needs some minor modification.

5/16/2007 8:36:00 PM

I used to work for a custom home builder in the Chapel Hill Area. $100/sqft is cheap for the most part. The place I worked for was kinda higher end but our "normal/average" homes ran about $140-$150/sqft, although we did do some up to $270/sqft.
For our budget we had the building process broken down into approx 50 different catagories to keep control of the budget. Just make sure you know this will pretty much be a full time job for you. Looks like you/your family will be doing a lot of it so you won't have to worry about too terribly many subs, but where builders really earn their keep is when a problem occurs and they have to backcharge the sub who did the work and that sub usually raises total hell. Just be sure you're willing to do that if necessary. Also, inspections are a pain in the but. I had the pleasure for a brief time of applying for all permits and inspections the company needed and got to experience first hand the slackness of government employees.
Also, if it means anything to ya, most of our remodel jobs that we had were from people who built their own house and didn't think of a bunch of stuff while building so they had some problems down the road. I would personally go with a "cost +" builder. They are required to show you every invoice for every bill on your house, so when you want 2x6's instead of 2x4's you know you're getting them. Instead of building a house for a fixed price, they would give you a fairly accurate estimate of the cost to build it and then charge you cost + their markup for each invoice they receive (our markup was 19.67%). PM me if you want to ask me any questions.

5/16/2007 11:05:53 PM

how would I find a builder like that?

5/16/2007 11:29:06 PM

I have no idea. I just spent some time looking through a bunch of builders' websites and i don't think any stated whether they were fixed price or cost plus. I guess you could just look in the yellow pages to find the names and google their websites to see if they look decent and then just call and ask.

5/17/2007 12:22:22 AM

For a house of that value I wouldn't suggest being the contractor.. Yea a contractor costs you money but they also save you money from all the sub contractors on painting, framing, etc... pretty much everything. When I was building mine I had a friend of mine who is a contractor always call the subs for me and tell them he was building the house and it always got me 10-20% off the bill. Get screwed by a few subs and you'd be way over budget quick, not to mention if something just doesn't go right or you're wrong about something that somebody with some experience would have been right about. I just think contractors pay for themselves usually and if nothing else you wouldn't have to deal with the headache of all the phone calls and scheduling, problems, etc.

5/17/2007 12:47:22 AM

Also, the guy I'm talking about who helped me is building a house in that price range right now for himself and just the actual labor for framing came out to almost 30K, materials had to of been another 10k probably, not to mention renting a crane to put the roof joists on and stuff like that...it adds up, quick.

You have under estimated by a long shot. I didn't see anything in regards to siding also btw, and if you're doing brick which I guess you probably are, that shit'll cost you mad money. I'll try to get you some real #'s from my contractor buddy if you really want them, his will be appraised in the low to mid 300's...

5/17/2007 12:54:30 AM

Having worked on several homes in the past 8 months, let me impart some wisdom on you:

DO NOT try to be your own contractor, especially on your first home. You will end up paying at LEAST double what you estimate, it will take 2-4 times longer to get done, and I can absolutely guarantee it won't be built very well.

Find newers home in the area that you like, that are well built, affordable or not, and find who the GC was.

Second thing: If you are trying to save money, buy an existing home. You will not save money building a new house. You will get what you want, but it's going to cost you more in the end.

Third thing: If you still want to build new, consider hiring a residential architect. $250K is about the low end of what a residential architect will want to do, but it lends you several major advantages-

You will have a professional who can help tailor the house to your wants and needs, who will take care of finding the GC and all the building end of the project. You will also have someone on your side when and if you find problems or areas you don't like as the home is being built. But mostly, you will end up getting the house you want, which will likely sell for a good bit more than neighboring homes because it wasn't plan built.

5/17/2007 3:08:09 AM

Your first house does not need to be your dream house.

You should actually do is just buy a first house to build equity, settle in to a career, get a good idea of what you want, and reap capital gains. Then, you use the time, experience, profits, and savings to build the house you want.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 3:51 AM. Reason : Females and their finances ]

5/17/2007 3:46:51 AM

When I was looking around, a basic 1100 sq ft modular was going to cost me 90K + land. Excel is a good custom modular builder that will do exactly the floor plan you want at no extra cost. You are probably looking at closer to $100-120/sq ft nowadays. Another thing to be aware of is cost escalation and how fickle the cost of construction materials are, especially with rising gas prices. A turnkey project will likely have some savings in that regard. I ended up going with an older house that was solid but needed updating, but it all depends on what the market is like in the area you are looking.

5/17/2007 7:22:18 AM

this isn't my first house ... first possible build yes, but not first house. The rest is valid, tho.

5/17/2007 10:10:34 AM

how big is this house going to be?

the going rate right now for electrical i know is $3/square foot without light fixtures. you may find someone cheaper, but copper is really expensive right now.

you have to figure out if you are going with city sewer or have a septic tank and drain field.......that will add another $$ on if you are doing the latter

i suggest you not be a contractor either. Contractors get deals on products and services that they use especially when they buy from a warehouse or wholesale where you might not have access to.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 6:24 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 6:27 PM. Reason : ]

5/17/2007 6:24:01 PM

Quote :

"1. Roof I figure goes with framing (I think I put that)"

Usually roofing is separate from the framing. You've got 3 or 4 layers on top of those trusses: framers typically put plywood on top and thats it. A roofing contractor will roll out the tar paper, put in flashing, lay the shingles, do the gutters, etc.

Quote :

"3. Hooking up utilities - I figured the lines should be run before we do anything, so that would be part of the perking, right?"

If your lot is new, it'll have electrical lines, a sewer lateral and water main right at the edge of the property line. You still have to factor in the excavation required to dig up the front yard and make the final connections. This can most easily be done before the foundation is poured or after framing. It has to be coordinated with the plumbers and electricians, and they don't like digging.

Quote :

"4. Windows - yep, windows and door should go in before sheetrock, or after?"

Before. There is a decent amount of trimwork required after the sheetrock is in, but nothing you can't do with a miter saw and a finish nailer.


[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 6:58 PM. Reason : 2]

5/17/2007 6:54:54 PM

http://www.building-cost.net/

this has a quick but somewhat in-depth cost calculator

5/19/2007 11:02:22 AM

I ran that calculator and total cost came out at 340k ... but I think I also made a mistake since I included basement area in total SF; I'll rerun it later

I reread the thread and I hadn't thought about contractors getting deals that I can't get thus essentially paying for themselves. We shall see. Thanks tww

5/20/2007 12:43:49 PM

You can't find a house you like in this area in the sub 300k range? WTf?

5/20/2007 2:57:00 PM

That's kinda what I was thinking ^

5/21/2007 1:46:04 AM

dont build houses with straw or sticks.

smart money is on bricks.

5/21/2007 1:52:05 AM

Quote :

"I reread the thread and I hadn't thought about contractors getting deals that I can't get thus essentially paying for themselves. We shall see. Thanks tww "

Yep, especially on large order stuff like 2x4's, sheetrock, nails, screws, plywood, brick and mortar. They can (and will) order in bulk from commercial suppliers, whereas you would pretty much have to buy everything from Home Depot or Lowe's, being that most building supply companies around here don't really sell to individuals, and if they do, they JACK the prices.

For instance, we get a 25-30% discount off counter prices at several places in town because we are a business. If we had credit accounts with them, it would be even less.

Same thing for fixtures, lighting, wiring, plumbing too. They will be able to either get it all cheaper, or get you upgrades over what you originally had budgeted.

Not only that, they will find the subcontractors and can get MUCH better prices that you would be able to negotiate for and will keep the subs from jacking you around on change-orders.

5/21/2007 3:30:06 AM

uh i thought perking only applied to lots with septic systems, and if it perked it meant the soil would allow your field to train, if it doesnt perk then you cant put a tank in? So what the hell does that have to do with your situation if you have city sewer?

5/21/2007 7:26:21 AM

Yeah, I've been in the wet utilities business for 3 years and I had no idea what a perk test is. Apparently it's short for a percolation test and it determines the absorption rate of soil for a septic drain field or "leach field" (thanks Wikipedia). I don't know how that applies to new home construction.

For utility connections, you could plug in about $1500 for the sewer, $1000 for the water and $1000 for the electrical.

You might be able to save some money by being your own contractor and performing a lot of the work yourself. People have done it successfully before. But you have to keep in mind that time is money, and it will take you a lot longer than subcontractors who perform one particular trade for a living. Inspection costs are a lot higher than you might think, too.

5/22/2007 2:04:24 AM

Quote :

"You can't find a house you like in this area in the sub 300k range?"

it's not in Raleigh - it's in/near Richmond, VA; housing is 20-25% more than it is down here. My house sold at $150k. I can't replace it for less than $190k. Plus we want to upgrade to 4BR.

5/22/2007 11:08:41 AM

you didn't put interest carry in your budget - you'll just take that out as a part of your draws and it shouldn't be all that much, but still something that you'll have to pay

driveway too - although i guess that's not essential

i imagine that for the price you're looking at you're going to wind up with EXACTLY what you've described as a "cookie cutter" house given the size lot you're going to wind up with and the percentage of the budget that's going to things like brick

the inevitable compromise is going to be square footage and floor plan, which will need to be pretty basic

5/22/2007 4:02:34 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, I've been in the wet utilities business for 3 years and I had no idea what a perk test is. Apparently it's short for a percolation test and it determines the absorption rate of soil for a septic drain field or "leach field" (thanks Wikipedia). I don't know how that applies to new home construction."

wow, i learned about that on This Old House when I was like 5

5/25/2007 2:27:54 PM

Quote :

"also check out modular homes, they're really well built and the best bang for your buck... and appreciate the same as a house, since well... it's a house"

not true. the real estate market (buyers) dont yet accept them as equals. plus, only some are well built. many are crap. many use 1x instead of 2x studs or some variation of that.

i am both a commercial builder and i have a RE broker license...here is my advice...

you should expect to spend AT LEAST $150/sf..then tack on 10% more for goof ups and surprises because they will come. do you have any experience estimating materials? if you are short, you are going to piss off your subs. on that note, you are also going to have a bitch of a time with your subs. they know this is a 'one and done' deal and your job will be the first one they pull off of if they get in trouble on another, and the last one they come back to. figure at least 7 months to build from permit application to CO. you dont want to hang and finish your own sheetrock. it will look like dog shit (not a knock on you). roofing and framing are very different.

long story short...temper your expectations for your first home and buy something that is a good investment vs. what your 'dream' is. how do you know you wont move out of the area in 3 years? you are being pretty unrealistic and are going to get yourself in a world of shit.

5/25/2007 5:13:45 PM

^ I pretty much agree with what you said, however he said that this isn't his first house

5/25/2007 6:09:41 PM

It's been a while since I've had free time to get on here ... about 2 weeks ago we went to an open house. The pictures were shitty, the description made it sound too small (WTF, it said 3BR but it was a 4BR), but it just barely made the "minimums" so we went and looked. LOTS more to it than the description or pics showed. This is part of an estate liquidation, which is probably why -- anyway, we both love it Sellers took our bid at $10,000 under asking. We just got done with inspection and there is one major structural issue (rotting support beam in one corner of the house) which we believe they will repair, so if all goes well we close 7/9

6/16/2007 1:41:56 PM