How much does it cost to get PADI Open Water Diver certified? I'm thinking about getting Scuba Certified!

6/4/2007 4:16:41 PM

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=477871

You will be advised to reconsider!

6/4/2007 4:21:31 PM

not through NCSU....through a Dive Store

6/4/2007 4:24:39 PM

do padi only if you want to suck at diving and put your buddy at risk

6/4/2007 4:35:12 PM

reasons? experiences? do you even dive?

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 4:38 PM. Reason : this is the lounge, right? ]

6/4/2007 4:38:20 PM

Do it through NCSU or at least do it through a NAUI dive shop

and yes I'm NAUI certified through NCSU and there is a world of difference. I wouldnt even get in the water with a PADI diver, regardless of "experience"

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 4:39 PM. Reason : .]

6/4/2007 4:38:33 PM

why not?

6/4/2007 4:41:50 PM

at nc state you train in situations that padi instructors may not even discuss

6/4/2007 4:43:57 PM

you are still giving me nothing but blank statements....

6/4/2007 4:44:35 PM

The reason is this: PADI has dumbed their curriculum down to a 4th grade level to the point where it is, IMHO, dangerous and unsafe to not only you but the people in the water around you.

PADI courses are generally short--anywhere from a weekend to perhaps a week or two. Do you really think you can get as much pool time and learn as much in that short of time as someone at NCSU gets from our scuba program, lasting an entire semester?

I'm a bit biased--I volunteer for the NCSU Scuba program. I'm in the pool several days/week during the school year working with new divers. I've seen PADI divers from dive shops--they flail around in the water, bounce off the bottom, cork to the top, stir up silt, kick the reef...and then they wonder why they don't have a good time...

If you're not at NCSU anymore, at least try and get certified through a NAUI shop, preferably by an OW instructor who is full cave certified.

If you want more, please PM me, I'm completely serious.

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 5:07 PM. Reason : ]

6/4/2007 5:06:45 PM

The bottom line is this--I feel that PADI scuba certifications are inadequate at best, and unsafe at worst.

edit: To highlight how strongly I feel about this--I didn't originally see your post. I was emailed a link to the thread by my girlfriend, saying "Save this person before it's too late!"

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 5:10 PM. Reason : ]

6/4/2007 5:09:03 PM

i think my NAUI course was about $150. maybe $175. you'll then spend prob another $100-150 on mask/fins/snorkel. if you want to get your own wetsuit, that'll be another $100-150 (and up from there, of course).

6/4/2007 5:12:46 PM

I did padi and it was 8 - 8hour classes at the YWCA and then an open water dive at fantasy lake. It was very informative. It covered a lot of information. It was not as people say 'dialed down to a 4th grade lvl' I would recommend it to anyone, go through the scuba shop in swift creek. They're good and know their stuff. I would also recommend doing advanced open water if you are going to get more serious then occasional dives on family vacations.

I don't see why people don't like PADI. We covered everything from emergency procedures, navigating underwater with no visual aids, sharing tanks, equipping your gear under water. not to mention all the class room stuff.

6/4/2007 5:13:25 PM

hmmmm....has PADI always been "dumbed down" or is this a new thing? i got certified probably about 12 or so years ago under PADI, and it was a very comprehensive course. i dont remember the specifics, but it was twice a week (for about 3-4 hours each time) for about 3 months or so.

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 5:14 PM. Reason : d]

6/4/2007 5:13:29 PM

PADI once used to be a good agency, back in the 80s and before then.
Then their management came up with the "Anyone can dive!" slogan, so the marketing department got to work...and they decided to cut back on the courses. So it's been in effect for awhile now. It's slowly getting worse.

The best thing I can say about several of the recent posts--you don't know what you don't know. Until you truly see someone who is a stellar diver, and then see yourself diving...trust me, there's a big difference in the way PADI trains divers. Think "cookie cutter" or "assembly line".


So, can anyone tell me where any gas management is taught in the PADI curriculum? Currently, nowhere...ask a PADI instructor what gas management is and you usually get a dumb stare. "Back on the boat with 500psi" doesn't cut it.

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 5:19 PM. Reason : ]

6/4/2007 5:18:22 PM

^^, ^^^ my NAUI course wasn't that extensive (although we did do several dives, not just one day)

6/4/2007 5:24:50 PM

Sounds as if your instructor might have possibly broken standards.
There are bad apples in every agency--don't get me wrong, NAUI, SSI, SDI, PADI...they all have good and bad instructors. With PADI's lower standards and higher numbers, the chances of finding a terrible instructor are much higher.

Earlier when I said "cookie cutter" I literally meant it. PADI instructors are allowed to teach XYZ and only XYZ. Nothing more nothing less. NAUI standards are minimums and instructors are encouraged to teach and require more than the minimums.

PADI is for-profit, NAUI is non-profit. The usual joke for PADI is "Put Another Dollar In".

6/4/2007 5:29:11 PM

Quote :

"The best thing I can say about several of the recent posts--you don't know what you don't know. Until you truly see someone who is a stellar diver, and then see yourself diving...trust me, there's a big difference in the way PADI trains divers. Think "cookie cutter" or "assembly line". "

My thoughts exactly. Until I SAW a group of highly experience PADI divers on the same wreck we were diving, I thought the whole "PADI is crap" was really being blown out of proportion. But it confirmed it for me. Guys (and girls) with 40-100 dives and 10+ years of dive experience were making dangerous and fundamental mistakes.

It sounds like the one Golovko took is VASTLY superior to most though, probably because it was through the YMCA, which is a pretty respectable organization for their various teaching courses.

6/4/2007 5:31:04 PM

YMCA has a great program, no argument there. Only problem is that it's much smaller than most other agencies so most people don't see it, they're too busy looking at flashy PADI "GET CERTIFIED TODAY!" signs.

A good thread on OW training:
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=153194

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 5:36 PM. Reason : ]

6/4/2007 5:35:34 PM

Charles...thank you _very_ much for the information. The reason that I was going PADI is because one of my good friends is a PADI dive instructor and said that he would do it at "cost", which he said would be $450 (seems kinda steep), but would include everything but M/F/S. I will def. look into this a bit closer.

6/4/2007 5:48:56 PM

Thanks for posting all this info, CharlesHF! I'm taking 226/229 in the fall and it's been scaring me a little thinking about it... right now I'm in swim conditioning again (took it a few summers ago), so I'm getting the "oh no, 5 weeks!" feeling that won't exist in a 15wk class.

Since the Keys dive isn't offered, is it just the quarry and NC beaches in coldcoldcold December?

~Laura (under Mark's login)

6/4/2007 6:00:56 PM

Your friend is probably going to tell you that PADI is a great program. Get pictures and video of him in the water and post them here or link me to them. If he's always standing or kneeling on the bottom, has his arms waving about everywhere, or flutter kicking...I personally would look elsewhere.

I believe GUE is going to come out with an open water course at some point. Most OW courses require 3-4 cert dives. I believe GUE's program is going to require...15-18? I could be mistaken but it's a lot.

Recreational diving from all agencies is slowly becoming something quite easy to obtain. Pay the money, you get certified instead of actually earning the certification.

90% of divers get certified for a vacation or cruise and never go diving again. That's cool--just be safe. You're going into an environment where you can't breathe without equipment, and yet most agencies and classes don't tell you how to deal with malfunctioning equipment. The more you dive, the more you like it, the better you get, and the better the experience is. The point is to get where you can hover motionless, horizontal (in trim) without waving your hands about or finning everywhere, maintaining your depth and position in the water. Makes like much easier as you don't have to kick to maintain position, saves gas since you're not moving, etc etc...



Due to a few interesting things going on in the department, I believe both the Keys and the NC coast dives have been canceled for this coming semester. Certification dives in the fall semester are actually done in November but there's a balance--we have to know that you're safe in the water but it isn't too late that it's chilly.
When I was escorting divers last fall during the OW cert dives we did them in early November. Warmest was 66 and over ~2 weeks it had cooled off to 62. Wait much longer and it does get chilly fast.
The quarries and inland water bodies "lag" temperature behind the air due to water having a higher specific heat. Thus they take longer to warm up than the air, and longer to cool down.

62º to 66º is perfectly reasonable and isn't too chilly. To new students it'll feel chilly but it really isn't bad at all. You should see it in February when it's in the mid 40s...

6/4/2007 6:09:32 PM

As an example of the lagging water temperatures--
Last weekend it was 70-71 in the 30ft zone at the local quarry even though it's frequently been in the high 80s. It has warmed up quickly though. Late April it was in the high 50s and slowly warmed into the low 60s in early-mid May.

Looking back through my dive log for last year it was in the 80s in the 30ft zone in July, August, and half of September, when it finally started to cool down. Even in mid October it was in the low-mid 70s.

6/4/2007 6:13:32 PM

Thanks! Poo to things going silly in the department, but that's okay, money must go where it must go...I'll have plenty of time to go dive in the ocean!

6/4/2007 7:56:00 PM

So what happened to the trips? You can PM me if it's not really public info yet. I'm just interested because I've considered re-taking/ta/assisting Rever in a class in the future, but if there's no Key's trip, fuuuck that mess.

6/4/2007 7:56:06 PM

Quote :

"So, can anyone tell me where any gas management is taught in the PADI curriculum? Currently, nowhere...ask a PADI instructor what gas management is and you usually get a dumb stare. "Back on the boat with 500psi" doesn't cut it."

that was something we covered in PADI. Of course i don't remember half of that shit until i get back out there and it all comes back to me. But we had to do all the different 'calculations' before each dive so we can figure out how long we can stay at what level with how much air etc etc...plus a bunch of other more intensive management formulas...i haven't been diving in a couple of years mainly due to my surgery and what not but i would definitely like to get back out there soon.

6/4/2007 8:24:56 PM

^definitely sounds like the YMCA is far and away better than any other PADI program I've ever seen.

6/4/2007 8:34:14 PM

i'll try to get what i can for ya. I know that he taught lessons in Honduras for 2 years but has never taught classes in the States. He does have >100 dives under his belt.

6/4/2007 9:08:41 PM

i've been certified for about 8 years now thru PADI and have nothing bad to say about them. Given my instructor was old school and hard core about his stuff.

6/4/2007 9:18:45 PM

^yeah my PADI instructor was old school and hardcore as well. He had to always put his equipment on in the water though, he used to have trouble walking and always had a cane. I signed up through Down Under Scuba in Swift Creek and the lessons were at the YWCA off of oberlin rd.


^^^yeah, it does sound like a lot of PADI is much like resort certification. I guess i got lucky though.

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 9:29 PM. Reason : fda]

6/4/2007 9:28:56 PM

Quote :

"62º to 66º is perfectly reasonable and isn't too chilly. To new students it'll feel chilly but it really isn't bad at all. You should see it in February when it's in the mid 40s..."

yeah, i've dived a freshwater spring that was in the mid 60s. I used a full 3mm suit, and it would almost take your breath when you first got in...but after a few minutes, it wasn't uncomfortable at all.

i'm about to be living right on the Puget Sound...i think it's in the 50s most of the time. think i'll be able to do it with a 6mm, or will I need more?

6/4/2007 9:32:10 PM

I used a 5mm for the quarry dives when it was about 60 deg.

better warm than sorry! if you get hot you can always let some water in. if you get cold, all you can do is piss on yourself

6/4/2007 10:30:19 PM

i agree...and i hate being cold...i just don't know if a 6mm will be enough for that water.

6/5/2007 12:09:52 AM

last time i went on a quarry dive, it was about 40-45degrees down at 60feet. I only managed to stay down at that depth for about 10 minutes max if i remember correctly. Worst cold experience ever lol Even though i had a full hood and wet suit. the pain around my mask was unbearable lol. plus since it was a quarry you couldn't see anything, not even your hand in front of your face, it was so murky.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:21 AM. Reason : fda]

6/5/2007 12:20:55 AM

If you got it through Scott at Down Under, it's a PADI cert, not YMCA. That's just where you happened to do the pool work. If I recall correctly Scott has taken a GUE course or two and is also full cave certified, so I'm sure he puts a bit extra into his courses than your average joe-blow PADI instructor. Technically he probably isn't supposed to, but...it happens. Personally I'd rather have an instructor break standards and teach you MORE than to just give you the cookie-cutter course.

The older instructors, preferably former military, are most likely going to be better than your average instructor out there just due to the fact that they've probably had more life experiences.


Duke--shoot me a PM. There's a fairly large community of people in the Puget Sound area that I know (online, not in real life) who dive it on a regular basis. If you'd like I can try and get you in contact with them. It's chilly (50s), dark, and doesn't look like it would be fun but they come back with the most fascinating pictures of nudibranches (sea slugs) and octopi and all sorts of neat stuff. 6mm might be fine for a while but I would want a drysuit if I were to dive it on a regular basis. 7mm probably better. You can get a 6.5mm two-piece for...$150 I think, online. Drysuits are a bit more expensive.


If I'm not mistaken these are a few pictures of things from the Puget Sound or at least the surrounding area. First 3 are different kinds of nudibranches, 4th is a "christmas tree worm", 5th is a mama octopus with her baby eggs. There's all kinds of neat stuff out there...even in the places you wouldn't expect--like this stuff from Puget Sound, or even the freshwater jellyfish you can find in quarries certain times of the year. I believe the nudis in these pictures are only...an inch or so long.











[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 1:01 AM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 1:00:30 AM

wow...those looks really cool

6/5/2007 10:48:44 AM

I've been diving for a while now and I'm now a AAUS science diver.You can take every course and spend years in the pool, but nothing is comparable to experience. Unfortunately, many instructors within PADI lack "real" experience.

First of all, there is nothing wrong with PADI courses. Just PADI instructors. PADI is not "dumbed down" at all. Thats not true. There are just a lot of crappy PADI instructors and dive shops that allow improper training. I was lucky and had a very good instructor when I did my PADI open water. Stay away from PADI unless you know of a very good instructor.

However, NAUI is in fact a safer bet for good dive training and typically has better instructors. NAUI is also not out to make money. In retrospect, I would have done my basic open water dive training through NAUI, but now most of my training is through AAUS.

SCUBA diving is not rocket science and should be fun. However, you should constantly be thinking about your safety while enjoying it. Good luck!

6/5/2007 11:12:49 AM

Quote :

"First of all, there is nothing wrong with PADI courses. Just PADI instructors. PADI is not "dumbed down" at all. Thats not true."

I really believe the PADI courses are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and that they're too flashy and not enough actual skill repetition. Just because you've cleared your mask once means you get to pass that skill? I can teach a monkey to clear their mask with a blast of air, but that's not good technique.

PADI courses tend to spread things out that I would prefer to have from an OW course, or their specialty classes are just BS. There's no need for "boat diver" or "deep diver" or "advanced open water" or "master diver" or even "peak performance buoyancy".

There should be no need for PPB after an OW class, because in OW you should leave with good buoyancy. You shouldn't have to take another class to perfect it.
As for PADI's deep specialty, it's just a hand-held deeper dive. Teaches you no true gas planning to make the deeper dives or how to deal with contingencies at depth.
AOW--just a conglomeration of useless specialties.
Same with Master Diver...


Personally I feel that GUE currently has the highest quality courses available.

6/5/2007 12:09:52 PM

Quote :

"SCUBA diving is not rocket science and should be fun. However, you should constantly be thinking about your safety while enjoying it. Good luck!"

This I absolutely agree with. Diving is supposed to be fun--go enjoy it, but be safe while doing so.

6/5/2007 12:10:30 PM

Quote :

"I really believe the PADI courses are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and that they're too flashy and not enough actual skill repetition. Just because you've cleared your mask once means you get to pass that skill? I can teach a monkey to clear their mask with a blast of air, but that's not good technique. PADI courses tend to spread things out that I would prefer to have from an OW course, or their specialty classes are just BS. There's no need for "boat diver" or "deep diver" or "advanced open water" or "master diver" or even "peak performance buoyancy". There should be no need for PPB after an OW class, because in OW you should leave with good buoyancy. You shouldn't have to take another class to perfect it. As for PADI's deep specialty, it's just a hand-held deeper dive. Teaches you no true gas planning to make the deeper dives or how to deal with contingencies at depth. AOW--just a conglomeration of useless specialties. Same with Master Diver... Personally I feel that GUE currently has the highest quality courses available."

don't knock it if you haven't tried it. Like i said before. I've had an excellent experience with PADI. So what fitchNCSU is saying is more accurate then what you are saying. Don't blame PADI for its course work...blame it on the instructors. I for one, had an excellent instructor with PADI. And we didnt clear our masks just one time to pass. Before we made it out to open water we had extensive time in the pool. swimming back and forth towing each other, practicing how to bring a helpless diver to safety was just one of many things we spent a lot of time on. Going from 20ft to the surface with a simulated out of air drill. and by simulated, the instructor switches off your tank at 20ft depth and you have to surface on one breath, granted its not difficult at all but its still a drill to prepair you for what dangers might lurk ahead if you aren't careful.

6/5/2007 12:54:04 PM

How long ago were you certified? Standards change--if your instructor didn't break standards (which, according to what you're saying they likely did) then you must have been certified long ago.

You had a good experience with PADI--fine. Zillions of other people do too. Then they geta little more involved with scuba, and realized how inadequate their initial training was.

6/5/2007 1:44:49 PM

I have a few friends that are now certified search and rescue swimmers and did their open water and advanced open water with PADI. they were the ones that recommended the instructor and the program. I've been certified for probably 4 years now.

6/5/2007 2:23:47 PM

Aside from their commercialism, there is absolutely nothing wrong with PADI certification. I've been responsible for leading groups of divers from pretty much every certification agency, and the PADI divers did just fine. PADI is by far the largest training organization, so of course you will see more morons with PADI certification. Just make sure you have a decent instructor and that you aren't being a moron, and you'll be fine regardless of certification agency. If you're concerned about the level of training you receive, take an advanced class relatively quickly. And NEVER trust a random buddy you are assigned on a boat to be an asset to your safety, regardless of their training.

6/5/2007 4:36:53 PM

AOW is, especially as a PADI cert, worthless except to get you on a boat that has slightly deeper (~100fsw) dives. Doesn't actually teach you anything...

The notion of someone having "advanced" skills after <10 dives (if I remember correctly, 6 are required for PADI AOW?) is laughable. They don't teach anything about trim, non-silting kicks, gas management...the list goes on. Equipment malfunction? Rock bottom gas calculations? Decompression theory......etc etc....

6/5/2007 11:57:12 PM

Quote :

"And NEVER trust a random buddy you are assigned on a boat to be an asset to your safety, regardless of their training."

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 11:58 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 11:58:24 PM

...I couldn't resist.

6/6/2007 1:53:20 AM

^what's with that pic?

6/6/2007 9:50:39 AM

It's a picture of CharlesHF during the training for Open Water students. The water looks all green like that because there's very little viz and the water is very murky. I believe it's out at Fantasy Lake Scuba Park in Rolesville. I think the picture is pretty neat because he's got near perfect trim

6/6/2007 10:01:57 AM

Quote :

"The notion of someone having "advanced" skills after <10 dives (if I remember correctly, 6 are required for PADI AOW?) is laughable. They don't teach anything about trim, non-silting kicks, gas management...the list goes on. Equipment malfunction? Rock bottom gas calculations? Decompression theory......etc etc...."

all that was taught in Open water not Advanced open water. As part of the training we had at fantasy lake, we had to learn how to be able to glide across the bottom of the quarry without kicking up sand and debris with our kicks since it takes so long for it to settle back down and ruins visibility etc.

another thing we learned was having to sit indian style under water at a certain depth without moving. We weren't allowed to float up or down or use our arms. Along with trim leveling at the bottom of the lake etc.

[Edited on June 6, 2007 at 1:26 PM. Reason : fda]

6/6/2007 1:23:37 PM

Quote :

"another thing we learned was having to sit indian style under water at a certain depth without moving. We weren't allowed to float up or down or use our arms. Along with trim leveling at the bottom of the lake etc."

What was the purpose of sitting indian style under water at a certain depth?

6/6/2007 1:39:06 PM